| 12th October 2006 03:36 AM |
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| F505 |
As I told on this board many times before: The Stones have nothing to do with music anymore. For years now the band has become a worldwide enterprise where only financial interests are at stake. They are not interested in their fans. Sad but true. Most of their diehard fans cherish the Stones as a religious relic from past times.
I have said them farewell after the Vredenburg concert. |
| 12th October 2006 03:54 AM |
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| jostorm |
Good morning , little aeroplane!
Yes, we have known this for a while now, but they simply won't listen to us, will they????
Where were you standing/sitting in the Vredenburg theatre???? Bloody hell, that is certainly one mindblowing concert to make your "last ever" Stones concert, good choice!!!!!
That concert hall is the most amazing hall I've ever seen them at, well, it's the most amazing concert hall ever, full stop, and forget all that shite of "on stage seating" the moneygrabbing bastards make additional money from...
I chose to sit high up on the back of the hall, about five metres behind and five metres above Lisa Fisher. The acoustic was seriously flawed (but I assume that at classical concerts ,where you have only an orchestra in the bottom and middle of the parabola pitch, it must be a perfect acoustic? Have you ever been to a "normal" classical concert there?) The fascinating point of view that I got up there made me feel like a total voyeuress, and it more than made up for the shite sound. Watched Ronnie having endless discussions with the technicians who had turned him off as he was too stoned to find the right key,and getting stuck in the t-shirt Jo was pulling over his head, and Mick's facial expression when changing from "performer" looking at the sea of adoring fan's faces to "professional" with cold looks at the other members of the band while giving cues, and all the interaction between technicians and band. Did you see how he practically picked the very pretty and young Southamerican girl standing front of stage on Keith's side? And how she threw a piece of balled-up paper (phonenumber) onto the stage, which Mick picked up? And how the security guy walked her off a bit later to meet him backstage???
One amazing concert for sure...
[Edited by jostorm] |
| 12th October 2006 04:23 AM |
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| F505 |
quote:
jostorm wrote:
Good morning , little aeroplane!
Yes, we have known this for a while now, but they simply won't listen to us, will they????
Where were you standing/sitting in the Vredenburg theatre???? Bloody hell, that is certainly one mindblowing concert to make your "last ever" Stones concert, good choice!!!!!
That concert hall is the most amazing hall I've ever seen them at, well, it's the most amazing concert hall ever, full stop, and forget all that shite of "on stage seating" the moneygrabbing bastards make additional money from...
I chose to sit high up on the back of the hall, about five metres behind and five metres above Lisa Fisher. The acoustic was seriously flawed (but I assume that at classical concerts ,where you have only an orchestra in the bottom and middle of the parabola pitch, it must be a perfect acoustic? Have you ever been to a "normal" classical concert there?) The fascinating point of view that I got up there made me feel like a total voyeuress, and it more than made up for the shite sound. Watched Ronnie having endless discussions with the technicians who had turned him off as he was too stoned to find the right key,and getting stuck in the t-shirt Jo was pulling over his head, and Mick's facial expression when changing from "performer" looking at the sea of adoring fan's faces to "professional" with cold looks at the other members of the band while giving cues, and all the interaction between technicians and band. Did you see how he practically picked the very pretty and young Southamerican girl standing front of stage on Keith's side? And how she threw a piece of balled-up paper (phonenumber) onto the stage, which Mick picked up? And how the security guy walked her off a bit later to meet him backstage???
One amazing concert for sure...
[Edited by jostorm]
Good morning Jo! Yes all the memories are coming to mind. I was standing right in front of the stage and it was almost scaring to see their lined faces only from only a few metres. I remember Keith walking around like an old dinosaur in his white jacket. Ronnie, stoned or drunk, playing the fool and constantly having words with Mick and Mick himself full of energy, almost not at ease on such a small stage. And yes, I also remember the piece of paper thrown onto the stage from a darkhaired lady sitting front of stage. And of course the setlist: a splendid Worried About You, the classics Live With Me, Hand Of Fate and a really great version of No Expectations one of their best ballads ever. That's How Strong My Love was surely another highlight.
Do you als remember Keith saying about the place: "I'd like to fold it up and take it with me". Of course Vredenburg (in my hometown!) is from now on a sacred place for me. I have seen many bands there (Kinks, Earle, Bob Dylan, Costello, Nick Cave etc) but The Stones were THE event in all these years. A concert to cherish.
[Edited by F505] |
| 12th October 2006 04:37 AM |
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| jostorm |
Yes, the setlist was wonderful, too!
Jumping Jack Flash
Live With Me
Hand Of Fate
No Expectations
Worried About You
Saint Of Me
It's Only Rock'n Roll
Dance
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
That's How Strong My Love Is
Going To A Go Go
--- Introductions
Thief In The Night (Keith)
Happy (Keith)
I Can't Turn You Loose
Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Start Me Up
Tumbling Dice
Brown Sugar
Satisfaction (encore)
One of those nights where you think you're gonna come in your pants any second, for sure....And I remember Keith's words, I just assumed that he meant it more from the "legal dope" point of view....
Amazing that you have seen all those bands there! Have you ever sat high above and behind them, though??? And have you ever been to a classical concert there, when they just have the instruments in the orchestra and don't use loudspeakers at all?????? I just always wondered if the parabolic shape of the wooden room gives a perfect acoustic under those circumstances....It must, I guess, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered building it ... |
| 12th October 2006 04:55 AM |
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| F505 |
quote:
jostorm wrote:
Yes, the setlist was wonderful, too!
Jumping Jack Flash
Live With Me
Hand Of Fate
No Expectations
Worried About You
Saint Of Me
It's Only Rock'n Roll
Dance
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love
That's How Strong My Love Is
Going To A Go Go
--- Introductions
Thief In The Night (Keith)
Happy (Keith)
I Can't Turn You Loose
Can't You Hear Me Knocking
Start Me Up
Tumbling Dice
Brown Sugar
Satisfaction (encore)
One of those nights where you think you're gonna come in your pants any second, for sure....And I remember Keith's words, I just assumed that he meant it more from the "legal dope" point of view....
Amazing that you have seen all those bands there! Have you ever sat high above and behind them, though??? And have you ever been to a classical concert there, when they just have the instruments in the orchestra and don't use loudspeakers at all?????? I just always wondered if the parabolic shape of the wooden room gives a perfect acoustic under those circumstances....It must, I guess, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered building it ...
No Jo, never sat there. I guess the acoustic is not too perfect when sitting above and behind the stage. My experiences are varying though. I thought the sound was pretty good when the Stones performed there. I have never been to a classical concert so I can't tell you if the sound is better without loudspeakers. But you might be right. I think the Vredenburg was orinally meant for classical concerts but in the end everyone plays there. Even the Stones. A dream came true I can tell you that! |
| 12th October 2006 05:21 AM |
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| jostorm |
yes, it certainly did....
gotta do some work now, talk to you later, be careful up there in those clouds, little aeroplane.... |
| 12th October 2006 01:49 PM |
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| jb |
I have never joined RS.COM or used a "legacy" code. I pay for everything I receive and do not bitch about it. |
| 12th October 2006 01:57 PM |
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| throbby |
Hey JB! Did you see the 9K listing for GA ticket(1)? |
| 12th October 2006 01:58 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
throbby wrote:
Hey JB! Did you see the 9K listing for GA ticket(1)?
No....I am waiting for my broker...I am expecting b/t 5-10k. |
| 12th October 2006 02:05 PM |
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| throbby |
For this show I'll pay 50.00 plus charges. At this point I'd rather not put anymore money in Cohl's pockets. He must get a piece of certain broker action, don't you think? |
| 12th October 2006 02:10 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
throbby wrote:
For this show I'll pay 50.00 plus charges. At this point I'd rather not put anymore money in Cohl's pockets. He must get a piece of certain broker action, don't you think?
The whole handling of this return tour has done little to enhance the band's image . Greed certainly has taken over any common sense. |
| 12th October 2006 02:13 PM |
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| throbby |
Mr. Cohl's finger is most certainly not on the pulse of the Stones fan base. To me it seems like one bad call after another. |
| 12th October 2006 02:17 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
throbby wrote:
Mr. Cohl's finger is most certainly not on the pulse of the Stones fan base. To me it seems like one bad call after another.
I agree with you 100%. While his track record has been impeccable since 89, this return thing just never felt right...it just isn't right that the band is playing in 30 degree weather in 1/2 empty stadiums on probab ly their farewell tour...it just doesn't sit right with me. On the other hand, MJ is a smart guy, and there must be a benefit to paly these shows. I know that for tax purposes they returned, but still, it could have been done in a much more respectable manner. See you at the Becon/AC?
[Edited by jb] |
| 12th October 2006 02:23 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>To me it seems like one bad call after another.<
Agreed. Since 1999....
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| 12th October 2006 02:27 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
>To me it seems like one bad call after another.<
Agreed. Since 1999....
Good point... |
| 12th October 2006 02:31 PM |
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| throbby |
Funny if the farewell tour is remembered as a quick cash grab by the Stones. The fewest possible shows for the largest possible take = stadium tour. I wonder about the "tax reasons" rumour. The Stones are known for paying very little tax on their overall earnings in these later "more astute" years, at least so I've read. It should have been an arena tour, or a longer European tour. What they did comes across as a cash grab to me.
AC doesn't look good and I don't what my chances are on getting into the Beacon. Christ, Giants may have been the last hurrah for me. |
| 12th October 2006 02:35 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
throbby wrote:
Funny if the farewell tour is remembered as a quick cash grab by the Stones. The fewest possible shows for the largest possible take = stadium tour. I wonder about the "tax reasons" rumour. The Stones are known for paying very little tax on their overall earnings in these later "more astute" years, at least so I've read. It should have been an arena tour, or a longer European tour. What they did comes across as a cash grab to me.
AC doesn't look good and I don't what my chances are on getting into the Beacon. Christ, Giants may have been the last hurrah for me.
My understanding is that they had to make "X" more dollars for the year ending to reap the extremely low taxes they pay. As you state, stadiums equal maximum profit, little overhead, and fewer shows. It just seems so forced and as you say a "cash grab". In all sincerity, it is just another disappointment in the long list I have had since 1984 forward..........
[Edited by jb] |
| 12th October 2006 02:54 PM |
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| jostorm |
jb wrote: I have never joined RS.COM or used a "legacy" code. I pay for everything I receive and do not bitch about it.
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Yes, I'd noticed!!! 
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jostorm wrote:
Applying ADDA, jb will pay $7500 to his credit card concierge for the trouble of getting the ticket, and a further 25000$ for having the credit card concierge's arm cut off by his surgical concierge to remove the armband undamaged and fit a state of the art prosthesis. Not sure which procedure will be applied to attach the undamaged armband to his own wrist, but, being one of God's chosen people, I'm sure he'll think of something.... Perhaps he has a magical concierge, too?...
Of course, he could always buy a ticket from one of the touts who will be auctioning his second ticket on ebay, but that would be considerably cheaper and offer less monetary kudos and oportunities to brag about the pricetag, therefore he will opt for Plan A.
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| 12th October 2006 02:56 PM |
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| jb |
quote:
jostorm wrote:
jb wrote: I have never joined RS.COM or used a "legacy" code. I pay for everything I receive and do not bitch about it.
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Yes, I'd noticed!!!
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jostorm wrote:
Applying ADDA, jb will pay $7500 to his credit card concierge for the trouble of getting the ticket, and a further 25000$ for having the credit card concierge's arm cut off by his surgical concierge to remove the armband undamaged and fit a state of the art prosthesis. Not sure which procedure will be applied to attach the undamaged armband to his own wrist, but, being one of God's chosen people, I'm sure he'll think of something.... Perhaps he has a magical concierge, too?...
Of course, he could always buy a ticket from one of the touts who will be auctioning his second ticket on ebay, but that would be considerably cheaper and offer less monetary kudos and oportunities to brag about the pricetag, therefore he will opt for Plan A.
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I travel a long way to the shows and want great tickets...is there something wrong with that? I buy many people less fortunate tickets as well. |
| 12th October 2006 03:10 PM |
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| jostorm |
No, nothing at all, and very laudable indeed (buying others tickets)...Don't be so edgy, it was meant as a joke!
And is it not Columbus Day over there?? You should be chilling out, not sitting on the computer, letting nincompoops wind you up!
Off to bed, have a good evening, everyone! |
| 12th October 2006 03:25 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Columbus Day was Monday.
It is my fave holiday dedicated to a mass murderer. |
| 12th October 2006 04:49 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Columbus Day was Monday.
It is my fave holiday dedicated to a mass murderer.
That's a bit of a stretch.
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| 12th October 2006 05:51 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
throbby wrote:
For this show I'll pay 50.00 plus charges. At this point I'd rather not put anymore money in Cohl's pockets. He must get a piece of certain broker action, don't you think?
I've maintained for some time that the HUGE % of best tickets that end up with brokers would suggest that Cohl and/or the band hold a certain amount for these people and get a considerable cut for doing so. It certainly balances out the token gesture of keeping some of the better tickets ons ale to the public for $99 |
| 12th October 2006 05:53 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
> the public <
No mercy on the taxpayer. |
| 12th October 2006 05:56 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
jb wrote:
The whole handling of this return tour has done little to enhance the band's image . Greed certainly has taken over any common sense.
This is true (and has increasingly been the case for a few years now)
I dont in any way begrudge anyone like yourself getting by legal means what they can afford to buy, but I find it a bit hard to equate having a pop at them for being greedy and forgetting about their fanbase - and then at the same time encouraging more of the same behaviour by being only to happy to pay thousands of dollars for a ticket.
If people didnt do this there wouldnt be a market for it. |
| 12th October 2006 06:03 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
This is true (and has increasingly been the case for a few years now)
I dont in any way begrudge anyone like yourself getting by legal means what they can afford to buy, but I find it a bit hard to equate having a pop at them for being greedy and forgetting about their fanbase - and then at the same time encouraging more of the same behaviour by being only to happy to pay thousands of dollars for a ticket.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
| 12th October 2006 08:11 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
A bit of a stretch?
I'm guessing that the 5,000 or so Caribe Indians that Columbus had killed would disagree. |
| 12th October 2006 08:13 PM |
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| nanatod |
So would John Truedell. |
| 13th October 2006 05:14 AM |
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| jostorm |
Yes, Gazza, and we have had this conversation many times before. It is fairly obvious that to get to see them in the setting of a very small theatre would be a dream come true for most fans.
The point I was trying to make earlier on about the "hand of fate", and I say once more that my comments were only very general, NOT personal against jb or glencar or anyone else AT ALL!!!!, is that in a situation such as this one, any fan who could possibly make it to NYC has the brief time to at least dream that they can get in for a very low price (in comparison to how much the bastards squeeze out of us for a decent stadium seat, f.e...)
Unfortunately, not all fans wanting to go will get in.Duh! In my past experience, some of the people who are successful at the fanclub presales and who have got a second spare ticket, can potentially sell it for XXX (name your price, it has been paid in the past!) That automatically makes them a tout in my eyes. No doubt many fans are genuine and will use their tickets for their partner, best mate, another great fan, and so on, but a proportion of them WILL become touts. And that is the bit I find so unpalatable.
Yes, we all know that money makes the world go round, and about market forces, supply and demand, blabla. BUT, we have all experienced multiple kindness by other fans on many occasions, and one of the nicest things about having been a Stones fan for a very long time, at least for me, are all those memories of impossible tickets and obscure recordings we got hold of through the kindness of other real fans. Personally, I would rather rip an expensive spare ticket up and eat the little pieces real slow in front of a tout's face than resell it to him. And, when you look at the faces of these people, you immediately recognise the face of a subhuman being whose sole existance relies on making a profit out of human desperation and "need", no difference at all to the black marketeers during wars and famines. Personally I would bring in hanging for touts, immediately after paedophiles. I have not seen a single tout's face EVER and thought "oh, he looks rather nice!" They simply look and act like the scum of the earth, and if there were a God, the Monty Python boot would come down regularly and exterminate them.
The big disapointment at realising that even "fans" can become touts is enormous. And on top of that, to read some of us bragging how much they can afford to spend on a 35$ ticket, I find simply tasteless and unsensitive. It means that we ourselves immediately undo the one chance we all have (and the ONE time the bastards aren't squeezing us senseless by the ticket price), and it immediately becomes the usual game of big-fish-eats-little-fish....It just annoys me, that's all, it really, really annoys me!
Ok, so you have practically unlimited disposable income to play with, I don't begrudge you that, honestly, may you live a long, healthy and fulfilled life, good for you, but don't fucking rub it in, will ya?????????In Venezuela we call this behaviour "counting money in front of the poor".
Perhaps this is a simple case of cultural chasm between UK behaviour and USA behaviour. In England it is regarded as extremely rude to talk about money. You wouldn't even catch the Queen ever mentioning that word, and she surely is loaded. My best friend has just acrimoniously divorced from her husband, she will say that she found blonde pubic hairs from the mistress in their matrimonial bed, but she would never, ever disclose how much maintenance he now pays (just to exemplify how "one does not speak about money"!)You can have friends for thirty years and never find out what they make. In contrast, I have been to American conferences where the stranger next to me at the dinner table introduced himself as "Hi, I'm Jeff and I make 200000$ a year, how much do you make?". I see it as insecurity, but regardless what you may or may not see it as, it is also extremely rude. So, I expected a slightly better standard or higher level of behaviour from "this lot", that's all. |
| 13th October 2006 02:42 PM |
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| jostorm |
Why was Columbus Day on Monday, when Columbus discovered America on the 12th??? Do you Americans never stop rewriting the bloody history books?????
Good point, about the holiday dedicated to a mass murderer, Sir Stonesalot, but the later mass-extermination of red indians (and no one ever mentions the poor buffaloes!)made Columbus look like Mother Teresa... |
