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Topic: North Korea goes nuclear(nsc) Return to archive Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6
9th October 2006 11:15 PM
Riffhard Surely those asshats weren't lying?



Riffy
___________________________________________________________

GERTZ: U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear; Readings fall short of atomic explosion... MORE...

U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did not produce its first nuclear blast yesterday, WASHINGTON TIMES star reporter Bill Gertz is set to report in Tuesday editions.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that seismic readings show that the conventional high explosives used to create a chain reaction in a plutonium-based device went off, but that the blast's readings were shy of a typical nuclear detonation.

'There was a seismic event that registered about 4 on the Richter scale, but it still isn't clear if it was a nuclear test. You can get that kind of seismic reading from high explosives.'

The underground explosion, which Pyongyang dubbed a historic nuclear test, is thought to have been the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT, far short of the several thousand tons of TNT, or kilotons, that are signs of a nuclear blast, the official said. Developing...

10th October 2006 12:46 AM
Brainbell Jangler
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Surely those asshats weren't lying?



Riffy
___________________________________________________________

GERTZ: U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear; Readings fall short of atomic explosion... MORE...

U.S. intelligence agencies say, based on preliminary indications, that North Korea did not produce its first nuclear blast yesterday, WASHINGTON TIMES star reporter Bill Gertz is set to report in Tuesday editions.

U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said that seismic readings show that the conventional high explosives used to create a chain reaction in a plutonium-based device went off, but that the blast's readings were shy of a typical nuclear detonation.

'There was a seismic event that registered about 4 on the Richter scale, but it still isn't clear if it was a nuclear test. You can get that kind of seismic reading from high explosives.'

The underground explosion, which Pyongyang dubbed a historic nuclear test, is thought to have been the equivalent of several hundred tons of TNT, far short of the several thousand tons of TNT, or kilotons, that are signs of a nuclear blast, the official said. Developing...




Which asshats would that be? The Washington Times? Isn't it owned by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon? Great source of info on Korea, that guy.

BTW, I agree that we should be skeptical about whether N. Korea did achieve a nuclear explosion pending further evidence. But the Washington Times still sucks.
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
10th October 2006 11:52 AM
Chuck China and Russia may well participate in tightening sanctions, but they will not support a blockade---they will openly or covertly sabotage it decisively; especially China. The Chinese public opinion that remembers their pride and confidence in gaining nuclear weapons is probably substantial, as is the South Korean opinion that identifies with "Korea" having "its own" nuclear deterrent.

So I think the end result of the North Korean test will result in more deterrent power against US imperialism and, therefore, less credibility overall for the threat of imperialist use of nuclear weapons, and more credibility for disarmament efforts---however partial---even among the imperialists themselves. That includes if Japan responds by developing its own nuclear deterrent, which it can do VERY quickly. That will just register the collapse of the non-proliferation regime which aimed at guaranteeing US dominance and Third World defenselessness.

Nonproliferation has suffered a huge defeat, and the prospects for nuclear disarmament---partial or otherwise---are thereby improved.







10th October 2006 11:56 AM
jb By all accounts, the blast was small, so only a few 100k would die. Bush is very afraid of Mr. il.
[Edited by jb]
10th October 2006 12:10 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
jb wrote:
By all accounts, the blast was small, so only a few 100k would die. Bush is very afraid of Mr. il.
[Edited by jb]



Wow..a liberal war monger...you don't see those every day
10th October 2006 12:10 PM
Chuck The reasons to suspect there will not be a military response by the US to the DPRK's nuclear test:

1. The Chinese will not allow it. How could it possibly be in the interest of China for the US to deploy and use weaponry, nuclear or otherwise, ON THEIR BORDER?

2. The Japanese will not allow it. They may themselves create some nukes, but the people of Japan are pretty well inoculated against the idea that it is good to have the US wielding weaponry in the area. So where would the US invasion be staged from?

3. The South Koreans will not allow it. Regardless of the government's desires, the Korean people are strongly for unification and you can't unify with a part of your country that has been taken out for thousands of years by nukes. Any South Korean government that even threatened to countenance a US strike of any sort against the DPRK would be out on its ear in no time. Syngman Rhee is dead.

There are 30,000 US hostages in military uniform sitting in Seoul as we speak. How would they be defended if the DPRK attacked them with the 40,000 artillery pieces it has aimed at Seoul, in the wake of a US attack? Wouldn't the South Koreans blame the US if their country were about to be ruined by a US adventure?

4. The North Koreans will not allow it.

10th October 2006 12:10 PM
Dan
quote:
GERTZ: U.S. doubts Korean test was nuclear; Readings fall short of atomic explosion... MORE...


I think it all depends on what the intended yield was.
10th October 2006 12:41 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
Dan wrote:


I think it all depends on what the intended yield was.



Why does anyone care if they have a nuke?...and why should the US do anything about it?...The world is all the time bitching we are trying to be the world's policeman...let some other nation risk their kids lives if they give a damn about this

I am finding it interesting with some of the left wing peace freaks here jumping Bush for inaction...yet not one of you has suggested what action he should take...you just bitch that he messed it up...which isn't even the case...yeah I know Gore woulda done it different...Kerry woulda showed him who's boss...and Dean, well, he woulda just screamed in Il's ear until the dude died

Let them have nukes...and evil Gilligan too...why not?..someone answer me why not
10th October 2006 12:41 PM
jb
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:


Wow..a liberal war monger...you don't see those every day


You don't see Charlie Watts in an antique store in Wichita every day either!!!!!!!!!!!
10th October 2006 12:43 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
jb wrote:

You don't see Charlie Watts in an antique store in Wichita every day either!!!!!!!!!!!



This is true...the world is full of surprises
10th October 2006 12:48 PM
glencar
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:


Why does anyone care if they have a nuke?...and why should the US do anything about it?...The world is all the time bitching we are trying to be the world's policeman...let some other nation risk their kids lives if they give a damn about this

I am finding it interesting with some of the left wing peace freaks here jumping Bush for inaction...yet not one of you has suggested what action he should take...you just bitch that he messed it up...which isn't even the case...yeah I know Gore woulda done it different...Kerry woulda showed him who's boss...and Dean, well, he woulda just screamed in Il's ear until the dude died

Let them have nukes...and evil Gilligan too...why not?..someone answer me why not

It's all Jimmy "If I Had A Hammer" Carter's fault. That fraud even angered Clintoon & Gang when he started arbitrarily negotiating an arms treaty with NK. Naturally it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. What a rotten scumbag.
10th October 2006 12:49 PM
jb Let me state I am all for taking out both Iran and N. Korea's launch sites/reactors. I am also for gradually getting out of Iraq-not because I oppose the war-but I am sick of opur kids dying for these animals who will never understand freedom.
[Edited by jb]
10th October 2006 12:56 PM
sirmoonie
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:



Let them have nukes...and evil Gilligan too...why not?..someone answer me why not


I think the concerns are (1) they will wheel and deal with this technology, including selling it to terrorists, (2) they may actually use the nuclear weapons (they are crazy enough) against S. Korea or Japan or others, which would necessarily involve the U.S., and/or (3) it may lead to an inefficient and dangerous arms race in the region. There may be other less obvious concerns that I have not listed, in fact, I'm sure there are.

This is all Clinton and Carter's fault, of course, having nothing to do with the half-wit in office for the last 6 years. Nothing at all.
10th October 2006 12:58 PM
glencar
quote:
jb wrote:
Let me state I am all for taking out both Iran and N. Korea's launch sites/reactors. I am also for gradually getting out of Iraq-not because I oppose the war-but I am sick of opur kids dying for these animals who will never understand freedom.
[Edited by jb]

I too think it's time to get out of Iraq. Throw another election, declare victory & head for home.
10th October 2006 01:10 PM
TampabayStone
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
This guy is very hot:








Guy from new NBC show Hero's, no?
10th October 2006 01:48 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:

I think the concerns are (1) they will wheel and deal with this technology, including selling it to terrorists, (2) they may actually use the nuclear weapons (they are crazy enough) against S. Korea or Japan or others, which would necessarily involve the U.S., and/or (3) it may lead to an inefficient and dangerous arms race in the region. There may be other less obvious concerns that I have not listed, in fact, I'm sure there are.

This is all Clinton and Carter's fault, of course, having nothing to do with the half-wit in office for the last 6 years. Nothing at all.



It pretty much is Clinton and Carter's fault...unbiased common sense will tell ya that...it's a lot easier and safer to take someone out before they have nukes...I'm guessing that's the case...and of course they're crazy...of course they will wheel and deal the tech....but then again, someone is already wheeling and dealing the tech to them...guess who...the US' position on this issue has been pretty clear...we have been one of the few consistent voices of opposition...other nations have actually been apologists for this nutjob...I hope you're not suggesting military action in North Korea...we've all seen what the world thinks of that...why that would just make us more unpopular

Of course I think we should obliterate them...and we have good reason already given Il's direct threats to our nation...but yeah...fuck it...it might do our nation good, in the long run, to have the Munchkin and Gilligan waving their nukes all over the globe...at least it would put the evil that is America into some sort of perspective...quite the conundrum no?...no...I say we let France handle this...and hold it steady W
10th October 2006 03:11 PM
Joey

Nanky ?!



10th October 2006 04:27 PM
Joey
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:

the half-wit in office for the last 6 years.






Friggin Beautiful .

10th October 2006 04:30 PM
telecaster Clinton and Carter gave them the nuke material AND the cash to produce it

GWB did not

Nuke cost billions and Clinton gave it to them
10th October 2006 04:35 PM
glencar I'd love to see him explain THAT to Chris Wallace next Sunday!!
10th October 2006 04:39 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
glencar wrote:
I'd love to see him explain THAT to Chris Wallace next Sunday!!



He doesn't have to...his minions are firmly entrenched in denial...so he's cool in that regard
10th October 2006 04:40 PM
Joey
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:


He doesn't have to...his minions are firmly entrenched in denial...so he's cool in that regard



Fiji .......................


What is a mensch ?!
10th October 2006 04:41 PM
mojoman all this talk about korea is making me hungry for some kimchee and barbecue
10th October 2006 04:43 PM
Fiji Joe Things the Deaniacs don't want you to know

-----
Asian Arms Race Result of Appeasement Policy


The leftist media spin is that the current crisis in North Asia is the result of George W. Bush calling Pyongyang a member of the 'axis of evil.' In reality, the soft-line appeasement policy taken by Clinton against North Korea and China is what has led us to this point.

For example, former Clinton adviser Paul Begala, now serving as a talking head on CNN, claimed that the Clinton administration contained the threat from North Korea. Clearly, Mr. Begala missed the 1990s.

Of course, Mr. Begala simply forgot that Clinton's military chief of staff testified in 1998 that North Korea did not have an active ballistic missile program. One week later the North Koreans launched a missile over Japan that landed off the Alaska coast.

During the early Clinton years, hard-liners and so-called conservative hawks advocated a pre-emptive strike to halt North Korea's nuclear weapons development before it could field an atomic bomb. Instead of taking the hard line, President Clinton elected to rely on former President Jimmy Carter and decided to appease the Marxist-Stalinist dictatorship.

Carter met with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il in Pyongyang and returned to America waving a piece of paper and declaring peace in our time. Kim, according to Carter, had agreed to stop his nuclear weapons development.

The Clinton appeasement program for North Korea included hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, food, oil and even a nuclear reactor. However, the agreement was flawed and lacked even the most informal means of verification.

In return, Kim elected to starve his people while using the American aid to build uranium bombs. The lowest estimate is that Kim starved to death over 1 million of his own people, even with the U.S. aid program.

Axis of Evil and Friends

North Korea was not left all alone in its effort to obtain nuclear weapons. North Korea relied heavily on China, its closest ally, to assist in its all-out effort to obtain the atomic bomb.

Beijing elected to covertly aid its North Asian ally by proliferation. China allowed Pakistan to send nuclear technology purchased from Beijing to North Korea in exchange for No Dong missile technology.

Beijing provided Pakistan with its nuclear weapons technology, including an operational atomic bomb design. Pakistan is now providing North Korea with equipment and engineering to assist in its bomb-making efforts.

The fact remains that North Korea acquired some key equipment for its nuclear weapons program from Pakistan in 1998. The key equipment, including a working gas centrifuge used to enrich uranium, was shipped to Pyongyang in the coffin of the murdered wife of a North Korean diplomat.

Beijing's indirect assistance includes allowing Pakistani C-130 cargo flights over China to Pyongyang that carry key equipment for nuclear weapons production. The flights return to Pakistan with North Korean No Dong missile parts.

Missiles for Nukes

Pakistan also benefited from the trade in weaponry. The missiles-for-nukes trade gave Pakistan an operational means to deliver its atomic bombs.

Pakistan has since successfully test-fired and deployed its own version of the No Dong missile, called the Ghauri. The North Korean-designed missile has a range of nearly 900 miles and can cover virtually all of India, Pakistan's rival in Southwest Asia.

The ultimate irony here is that the North Korean No Dong and Tae Po Dong missiles are based on technology given to Pyongyang by China. In 1994, the Wall Street Journal revealed that Chinese-made CSS-2 missile technology had found its way into North Korean hands.

China has also allowed North Korea to ship SCUD missiles through its territory for Middle Eastern customers. According to a Canadian undercover operative, North Korean agents moved dismantled SCUD missiles through China into Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.

The allegations proved to be correct because U.S. satellites were able to follow Chinese-made M-11 missiles bound for Pakistan over the same land route in 2000. The illegal export of M-11 missiles brought swift sanctions against Beijing by the Bush administration.

In recent months China has been much more overt about assisting Pyongyang with its nuclear weapons program. In 2002, China sold Pyongyang a large shipment of tributyl phosphate, a key chemical used to extract plutonium and uranium from spent fuel rods for atomic bombs.

U.S. Pressure on Asian Allies

In contrast, the U.S. repeatedly told India, South Korea, Japan and Taiwan that they should not develop nuclear weapons. The U.S. position was that the no one had the right to bring a new arms race to Asia.

The U.S. also backed up this policy by placing severe restrictions on the export of nuclear and ballistic missile technology to India, Taiwan, Korea and Japan. The trade agreements also had teeth built into them in case U.S. technology was abused.

For example, when India developed and tested its nuclear bomb, the U.S. responded with hefty sanctions and a diplomatic freeze that is just now beginning to thaw.

Compared to the strict U.S. policy, China did not discourage its client states, North Korea and Pakistan, from developing nuclear weapons. Instead, China has overtly and covertly assisted both nations to develop and deploy active weapons upon working delivery systems.

Nature abhors a vacuum, especially in the case of nuclear weapons. The whole equation of Asian defense has changed overnight. As a result of China's nuclear proliferation, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan may now have to follow Pyongyang's lead and begin their own atomic weapons programs. That decision will be made in Tokyo, Seoul and Taipei, not in Washington.

It should shock no one, including the China lobby and DNC apologists, that Beijing will continue to support North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

However, some fools continue to be suckered by Beijing's obvious ploy to dominate Asia. The fools' hope that China will restrain Pyongyang continues to echo off the lips of the leftist media, as if by simply wishing it were true will make it so.

The fact remains that Bill Clinton's legacy is an unstable world filled with hungry dictators and nuclear weapons. The result of the Clinton appeasement policy toward China is a new arms race.
10th October 2006 04:46 PM
Fiji Joe
quote:
Joey wrote:


Fiji .......................


What is a mensch ?!



I have heard it used in polar opposite contexts...generally it means a stand up brother...but I've also heard it used as an exclamation to express frustration...I would say that if it was uttered in your presence, you probalby pissed someone off
10th October 2006 04:50 PM
mojoman truman fired macarthur so its his fault
10th October 2006 04:51 PM
glencar
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:


I have heard it used in polar opposite contexts...generally it means a stand up brother...but I've also heard it used as an exclamation to express frustration...I would say that if it was uttered in your presence, you probalby pissed someone off

Joey hasn't left Nebraska for 5 years!!!
10th October 2006 04:53 PM
Joey " ...I would say that if it was uttered in your presence, you probalby pissed someone off "

But your young Joey is harmless ....



10th October 2006 04:55 PM
Joey
quote:
glencar wrote:
Joey hasn't left Nebraska for 5 years!!!



Blue ..........................

Are we seeing THE WHO together this December ?!

10th October 2006 04:56 PM
glencar Possible...
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