| September 28th, 2004 06:46 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
I've heard that this is a good audience recording.... hmmm, could somebody tell me how good is its quality? Does it sound as great as Brussels Affair Definitive?
I know it is a must...
I already checked http://members.aol.com/Fijigin/LIVErLP.html, so I would like personal points about this piece of the Rock'n'Roll history....
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| September 28th, 2004 07:02 PM |
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| mac_daddy |
hey jjf!
the sound on LiveR is not as good as brus. af. def.
it is one of the best sounding US '69 recordings (although 11/08 @ the forum sounds better imho)...
LiveR is also one of the first bootlegs (unauthorized recoring sold by another entity - other than the band or its agents)...
there are also countless "remasters" of this set. some are better than others. ymmv
i hope this helps...
[Edited by mac_daddy] |
| September 28th, 2004 07:15 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Thank you dear Daddy. Your knowledge always helps us. |
| September 28th, 2004 07:19 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
btw, what about "Order in the Court" (25/mai/76)? What's the setlist, quality?
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| September 28th, 2004 07:37 PM |
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| CotchfordCat |
It's the Oakland show, if I remember correctly.
I've only heard bits and pieces of it, on headphones, at a record fair, by courtesy of a dealer who was very keen for me to shed twenty quid for the honour of owning it.
I declined.
Don't get me wrong, I like bootlegs as much as anyone. I didn't see much point in buying a, what? 20th generation version of the world's most (in)famous boot (this was in 1992) for 20 quid when a CD of "Get Yer Ya Yas Out!" could be had, second-hand, for less than a tenner.
As to the sound, well, yes, I have to grant you it's usually (even on what must be the 1969 original's great-great-great-great grandcopies) very good stereo; But it was originally filched from an FM radio shot, so how difficult could it be?
Upshot: Buy it if you come across it, but don't be held to ransom. Original copies ( but not ONLY these!!! Take care!!!) are in plain white covers with the title 'stamped' in the top left corner in navyblue or red.
A reasonable tariff for this item is 40 pounds Sterling, which is, what? 55-60 USdollars? |
| September 28th, 2004 07:50 PM |
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| mac_daddy |
quote:
J.J.Flash wrote:
btw, what about "Order in the Court" (25/mai/76)? What's the setlist, quality?
there are better europe 76 sources out there. oitc is another one of these "remaster" jobs, although i cannot remember offhand who did it...
as a taper, i can honestly say that the less stepped-on a recording is, the better it will sound. you can't make a stallion from a horse's ass, you know? if the original recording sounds like sh*t, then no ammount of remixing, Eq'g, etc. will fix it. the better your listening equipment, the more apparent this is...
with a very few exceptions (noteably gorgeous girls), the original tape will sound superior to a remaster...
so what titles for europe '76..? there are a few. paris aux printemps is pretty good. i just rec'd a complete knebworth that is supposed to be pretty good (haven't listened to it yet). i am drawing a blank on some of the other titles... exile aux abbatoirs - i like that one alot (i think that is the name)...
if i remember correctly, the same bootleggers made order in the court and the 20th anniversary LIVEr, and i think that those are the worst sources available for their respective performances...
having bashed all of these remasters, i will say that there is a europe 76 title from vigotone that i would love to get my hands on some day. i have never heard it, but the other stuff vigotone releases is absoultely top-notch. they did the voodoo brew/stew stuff. i have all their stones stuff except this europe one, and i would really like to find it. so keep an eye out for that one, too...
i am hard-pressed to say which year/tour is my favorite. the way i feel about beggars', let it bleed, sticky fingers, exile (all are my favorites at different times, but i could never really pick one to TOP the other three), i feel about us69, STP, aus73, TOTA...
but i like eur73, eur76, us81 and us78 a whole lot, too. and gorgeous girls is certainly one of my five favorite boots that i have heard...
hard to judge tours by boots, though. gorg girls rocks, but by all accounts, most gigs of the 78 tour were quite sloppy, and not that good at all...
[Edited by mac_daddy] |
| September 28th, 2004 07:57 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
quote:
CotchfordCat wrote:
[...]
Upshot: Buy it if you come across it, but don't be held to ransom. Original copies ( but not ONLY these!!! Take care!!!) are in plain white covers with the title 'stamped' in the top left corner in navyblue or red.
A reasonable tariff for this item is 40 pounds Sterling, which is, what? 55-60 USdollars?
Do you mean the original ones released as vynil, right?
hahaha, crackin' up... LOL  60 USD.... hahahahaha which stands for R$ 180,00 and then.... of course considering its rareness, mainly in Brazil, I think it costs R$ 300,00 at least. Of course, if there were ORIGINAL copies around...... |
| September 28th, 2004 08:37 PM |
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| CotchfordCat |
Try to stay calm, my friend.
Being resident and operative only in Great Britain, I can only comment on the state of the market here.
However, a couple of points:
1 This record is not as scarce as you may imagine. Given that it was one of the very first 'pirate' LP's, it's initial success in the marketplace was ENORMOUS, so much so that, in the US, had it been a 'legit' release, it would have occupied the number 1 position on the chart for about 3 weeks. Subsequently, of course, it became the subject of an enthusiastic and prolonged 'bootlegging', (that's right, a bootleg of a bootleg) causing the market on both sides of the Atlantic to be overwhelmed by hundreds of (well nigh identical) copies of this LP. What a person bought in good faith back then as an 'original' could have been manufactured in any of at least 10 different places, at any time between 1969 and 1973.
Has this 'original' been 'bootlegged' further since? Maybe, your guess is as good as mine.
2 A product is only 'worth' what someone is willing to pay for it.
3 Would you like to buy an original copy of "Live R Than You'll Ever Be"? I'll let you have it for $30..... |
| September 28th, 2004 09:49 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
quote:
CotchfordCat wrote:
Try to stay calm, my friend.
Being resident and operative only in Great Britain, I can only comment on the state of the market here.
However, a couple of points:
1 This record is not as scarce as you may imagine. Given that it was one of the very first 'pirate' LP's, it's initial success in the marketplace was ENORMOUS, so much so that, in the US, had it been a 'legit' release, it would have occupied the number 1 position on the chart for about 3 weeks. Subsequently, of course, it became the subject of an enthusiastic and prolonged 'bootlegging', (that's right, a bootleg of a bootleg) causing the market on both sides of the Atlantic to be overwhelmed by hundreds of (well nigh identical) copies of this LP. What a person bought in good faith back then as an 'original' could have been manufactured in any of at least 10 different places, at any time between 1969 and 1973.
Has this 'original' been 'bootlegged' further since? Maybe, your guess is as good as mine.
2 A product is only 'worth' what someone is willing to pay for it.
3 Would you like to buy an original copy of "Live R Than You'll Ever Be"? I'll let you have it for $30.....
Oh Cotchford fella, thank you for the attention you gave to my questions. Too kind your gesture of helping poor Jackass Flashy buying this perl paying such a fair price. I am trying to collect LPs, as most good music "addicted". But for the time bein, I can get enough with only the CD-R one.
But I would like to talk more about LPs, bootlegs or oficial stuff. We talk later!
Good night
Best regards |
| September 28th, 2004 11:41 PM |
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| BILL PERKS |
MAC DADDY THANKS FOR MSG 72 TREE-OUTSTANDING |
| September 29th, 2004 10:13 AM |
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| jpenn11 |
macdaddy,
Is the Knebworth a complete sbd or, like Hot August Night, etc., a mix of audience and sbd?
jj,
From what I've heard, San Diego 69 is better recorded than Oakland. May even be a better show though I think Mr. Taylor takes his first SFTD solo on that tour in the Oakland 2d show, not in San Diego. I think the latest remixes for Oakland are Pot Boiler and Liver Than You'll Ever Be (Sister Morphine) though I'm not sure.
Here's another's review from 2000 or so:
Oakland 11/9/69 1st show; 70 min; 7.0 m; "Bring It Back Aliver"
Another audience tape that did not circulate until the mid '90s. The PA blows
out early on; the replacement system is quiet which makes for a good
recording. The performance is average. The rare "Liver Than They'll Ever Be"
LP and CD sound better than the more easily available title listed; this is
probably available on a Japanese CD as well.
Oakland 11/9/69 2nd show; 70 min; 8.0 m; "Liver Than You'll Ever Be"/
many others
The first Stones bootleg. Many, many different releases on LP, now the entire
concert is on CD. Good audience recording for the time but Mick's voice is
too loud. Average performance. The LP, the first rock music bootleg with
good sound, caused a sensation back in 1970 and was even reviewed in Rolling
Stone magazine. Original Lurch label LPs sound quite good but many later
pressings have excessive surface noise. The listed Swingin' Pig CD is not
quite complete due to tape flaws in 2 songs but there is a VGP CD of the
entire Oakland tape, with flaws. Either of these CDs is your best bet
soundwise. The latest "30th Anniversary" release is remastered and nicely
packaged to look like a Mobile Fidelity audiophile CD. Unfortunately, it
suffers from a poor mastering job which attempts to boost the guitars but
results in a shrill sound. At least it splices together the two incomplete
songs. Overall, not recommended.
Coincidentally, a primitive incomplete soundboard tape was recorded by Bill
Graham's people, and broadcast on KSAN in 1972. That recording is available
on a rare German LP "Oakland Sixty-Nine" and was later dubbed onto a CD with
the exact same packaging as well as the inferior, overly processed "Hangout"
CD. The soundboard tape sounds much different but the overall quality is
comparable.
San Diego 11/10/69; 40 min; 8.0 m; "Stoneaged"/others
Best 1969 recording though it's an audience tape, good even by modern
standards. Decent performance, marred by the amazingly out of tune show-
closer Street Fighting Man. The original LP has been copied onto CD; the
complete (70 min) performance is also available on CD. Original LPs sound
better than any CDs. Of the current, complete CDs, the VGP release, "It's No
Hangin' Matter," is preferred by some but others prefer TSP's release, which
is carefully spliced to add in missing pieces of the show. Personally, I
think VGP's is a tiny bit better. (The VGP CD also includes yet another re-
release of MSG 11/27/69).
Remember though that these are audience recordings from 35 years ago. The sound quality will not be as good as Brussels or Handsome Girls.
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| September 29th, 2004 10:41 AM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Guys, what would you say about "Philadelphia Spectacular 1972 (Spectrum, Philadelphia)". I need info about that ASAP. The setlist, the sound quality, performance......
TIA
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| September 29th, 2004 10:42 AM |
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| J.J.Flash |
interesting info jpenn11. Thanks a lot! |
| September 29th, 2004 11:40 AM |
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| jpenn11 |
I know of Philadelphia Special 1 & 2, not Phillie Spectacular. Phillie Special has some good stuff--I think a mix of Phillie and Houston--but I don't like the recording.
There is supposed to be a new, improved Phillie under the name Deuces Still Wild, but I've not heard it yet.
My main sources for CD information are www.printmark.se/stones or fingerprint-file, but they might not be updated frequently. iorr.org also has CD information, but it is more out of date the last time I checked.
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| September 29th, 2004 11:41 AM |
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| jpenn11 |
By the way, here is the FAQ from 2000 or so:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/music/rollingstones-faq/part2/ |
| September 29th, 2004 12:48 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Very good info jpenn. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for the FAQ. I used to have all of them in my Hard Disk, but out of the blue I lost great part of my Stones archive. |
| September 29th, 2004 03:37 PM |
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| glencar |
Isn't Knebworth one of their weakest performances? I recall a discussion here a few weeks ago about it. |
| September 29th, 2004 03:50 PM |
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| marko |
It is not week,,,but they surely had bad problems with PA
system.I really like this show.
The cd is a mix of sbd&aud. |
| September 29th, 2004 04:05 PM |
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| glencar |
Hmmm, I must see if I have this one. |
| September 29th, 2004 09:43 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Good information thanks |
| September 30th, 2004 02:30 AM |
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| Zack |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Hmmm, I must see if I have this one.
Excuse the impertinence, but don't you know what you have? |
| September 30th, 2004 07:22 AM |
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| Mr Hess |
quote:
J.J.Flash wrote:
Guys, what would you say about "Philadelphia Spectacular 1972 (Spectrum, Philadelphia)". I need info about that ASAP. The setlist, the sound quality, performance......
TIA
Great perfs IMO, but it sounds a little tinny-at least my copy. But I play it a lot anyhow.
Heard a rumor that the tapes of this show were originally stolen from Jagger's pad-but that just might be a tall tale. |
| September 30th, 2004 08:57 AM |
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| mac_daddy |
i haven't listened to the knebworth source, glencar, so i really don't know, yet...
_____
as per philly spectacular - i have never heard it. i have heard the versions of "philadelphia special," and they are pretty damn good. i would have to say that the best sounding STP source i have heard is "you can't do that baby."
_____
quote:
BILL PERKS wrote:
MAC DADDY THANKS FOR MSG 72 TREE-OUTSTANDING
you are most welcome. i am glad you folks are enjoying it...
i sent princess margret the artwork on CD-R. she said that she was going to try and distribute it to some folks, so you might want to get in touch with her if you are still looking for the artwork... |
| September 30th, 2004 10:59 AM |
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| UGot2Rollme |
fyi - I just checked my "Philly Spectacular" and it's the same as Philly Special... |
| September 30th, 2004 11:27 AM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Oh Stan, thank you my brother. Even my haven't heard this one... just considering the period, the place and the setlist... it seems to be as crazy as Brussels Affair Definitive......
Glad the sunday's coming...
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| September 30th, 2004 12:17 PM |
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| UGot2Rollme |
I was just listening to it again - very energized - sound quality not as good as Brussels, but some great performances....
...thank you, for your wine, Philadelphia!...
see you Sunday Fausto |
| September 30th, 2004 04:39 PM |
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| TornAndFrayed |
Live´r is the Oakland 11-09-69 (2nd) show. Its sound quality is very good although there are better sounding 69 tapes available (Oakland 1st show, San Diego, MSG 11-27-69). I have always thought this show is overrated but at least the set includes a decent "Gimme Shelter", a song which was played only a handful of times in 1969 (WHY???!!!!).
I have always preferred listening to LA 11-08-69, Detroit 11-24-69, MSG 11-27-69 and Baltimore 11-26-69, shows which are just so much better performance-wise.
Stay away from the Sister Morphine version of Live´r. That release is an insult to every serious collector.
I have a low-gen (master clone if I rember correctly; could also be a 1st gen) of this show which is better than any other version I have ever heard. I´m thinking about torrenting it in the near future.
[Edited by TornAndFrayed] |
| September 30th, 2004 07:00 PM |
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| mac_daddy |
quote:
TornAndFrayed wrote:
I have a low-gen (master clone if I rember correctly; could also be a 1st gen) of this show which is better than any other version I have ever heard. I´m thinking about torrenting it in the near future.
[Edited by TornAndFrayed]
please do!!! i'd be happy tro seed a few sets here if you do (like w/ the '72 msg gigs)... |
| September 30th, 2004 09:58 PM |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
TornAndFrayed wrote:
I have always preferred listening to LA 11-08-69 and Baltimore 11-26-69
The best shows of that tour, IMO... |
| October 4th, 2004 09:13 PM |
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| kmc |
the neat thing about "live'r..." is that is reaffirmed how good the '69 tour was. seeing them in philly and 3 times in nyc, i knew i had seen great shows. but there was nothing to prove it. "gimme shelter" was only a rumor. as was a possible live album. the only news one got was from ROLLING STONE MAG which was hawked on streetcorners and head shops in nyc and that wasn't much. then in 1970 the FIRST BOOTLEG - dylan's GREAT WHITE WONDER made an appearance in the spring. in july, ROLLING STONE reviewed "Live'r". immediately took the train to NY and found a copy in some head shop. listening to it, was a revelation. the album rocked like no other live album did up to that time. sound quality was quite good.
it became so popular it forced london to rush release "ya ya's." though also a great album, i still prefer "live'r" because of its lack of overdubbed material. |
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