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Topic: The Dutch.... Return to archive Page: 1 2
28th September 2006 12:59 PM
Ten Thousand Motels RO-offers....Where are they?


[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
28th September 2006 01:04 PM
F505 Here I am!
28th September 2006 01:06 PM
glencar I've been there..
28th September 2006 01:15 PM
Ten Thousand Motels Where's Egon? Moonisup? Angiegirl? Strange_stray_cat?

and whoever else?
28th September 2006 01:17 PM
DizzyDutchman Hi

28th September 2006 01:34 PM
Ten Thousand Motels Why haven't the Dutch turned out a world class rock n roll band? (Maine hasn't either for that matter....)
28th September 2006 02:40 PM
F505
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Why haven't the Dutch turned out a world class rock n roll band? (Maine hasn't either for that matter....)



Because we have other qualities. We had great painters once but in the rock scene we have alway been a lightweight. A few worldfamous 'highlights' were Radar Love (Golden Earring), Little Green Bag (George Baker Selection) and Venus (Shocking Blue).
28th September 2006 02:52 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
F505 wrote:
Because we have other qualities. We had great painters once but in the rock scene we have alway been a lightweight.



You folks had some great pilgrims though. The idea of "Freedom of Religion" was brought to the New World by the Dutch....not the French or the English so much. I think most of the folks on the Mayflower were of Dutch origin.
28th September 2006 03:59 PM
thejuf
quote:
F505 wrote:


Because we have other qualities. We had great painters once but in the rock scene we have alway been a lightweight. A few worldfamous 'highlights' were Radar Love (Golden Earring), Little Green Bag (George Baker Selection) and Venus (Shocking Blue).



don't forget Una Paloma Blanca!
28th September 2006 04:14 PM
Dick Bush
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Why haven't the Dutch turned out a world class rock n roll band? (Maine hasn't either for that matter....)



You've probably forgotten Focus, one of the most thrilling prog rock bands of their time, Jan Akkerman being voted 1973 the world's best guitar player by the Melody Maker, making solo few of the best records I've ever heard. A classy man doing only his own thing, never giving much for popularity and trills.

Yes, Focus had two great sold-out gigs in the NYC Central Park, but even the dutch folks here seem to have forgotten them, what a shame!

For this kind of business, it is a big handicap not being british or american.

28th September 2006 04:24 PM
glencar
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:


You folks had some great pilgrims though. The idea of "Freedom of Religion" was brought to the New World by the Dutch....not the French or the English so much. I think most of the folks on the Mayflower were of Dutch origin.

Please, study yer history again this upcoming depressing Maine winter. You know not of which you speak.
28th September 2006 04:30 PM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
glencar wrote:
Please, study yer history again this upcoming depressing Maine winter. You know not of which you speak.



Dutch Puritans and their Concerns

The Dutch Puritans, even more than their English counterparts, had reason to be thankful for what the Reformation had accomplished in their land. The Reformed Church had become the established church in the Netherlands, and especially after the great Synod of Dort, sound doctrine was preached from all its pulpits. Yet the more discerning among the Dutch clergy realized that purity of doctrine alone is not sufficient. They knew that unless a sound profession was adorned by a holy walk, the Reformation would eventually lose its hold on the people. Consequently, they began to work towards a more thoroughgoing reformation.

Concerned about the growing number of nominal Christians in the church, the Puritan-minded preachers began to differentiate between true and false converts and they showed from Scripture the marks of a believer and a hypocrite.

That some of these men went too far in their zeal to separate the precious from the vile was to be expected. And that some became disillusioned when they saw that in spite of all their efforts to reform the church and society, things remained pretty much the same, so that they gave up and began to withdraw into conventicles of like-minded believers - that too is understandable. But despite the shortcomings and failures of some of them, the Dutch Puritans on the whole, were truly God-fearing men with a real burden for souls and a deep concern for the glory of God.

Objective-Subjective

Characteristic of Dutch Puritan preaching is that it was objective-subjective. Calvinists of the Old School believed, and still believe that true, biblical preaching ought to be explication and application of God's Word. By application they do not just mean relevant preaching, in the sense that the preacher should apply his text to everyday life. That, to be sure, has to be done also. But by application they mean rather the subjective appropriation on the part of the hearers of that which is preached. Against the objection of the Neo-Calvinists that such application is the work of the Holy Spirit and should therefore he left to Him, Old Calvinists insist that while it is indeed the Spirit Who applies the Word, preachers must so divide the Word as to give the Spirit something to apply.

About seventy years ago, Rev. I. Kievit, a minister of the Dutch Reformed Church (Alliance), and a prominent representative of the Old Calvinist school of preaching, wrote a book entitled Objective-Subjective preaching: The Demand of Holy Scripture. In this book the author first explains the philosophic distinction between objective and subjective and then says this about objective preaching:

"Objective preaching speaks about faith, conversion, repentance, God, salvation, and Christ. It deals with the truth, but it is without life and without experience. There is no heartbeat in such preaching. The preacher delivers an essay or discourse, but it is dead and spiritless. Such preaching petrifies and genders pride, for historical faith is considered to be saving faith. In fact, objective preaching is not administration of the Word. For it does not explain how Christ becomes the possession of the sinner. Of course, the preacher will say that it is by faith, but how that faith is worked by grace or how it is exercised, you don't hear."

And then he gives his advice to ministers of the Word:

The preacher must not only point to Christ and speak of the promises that are given, but he must also speak about the exercises of the heart in regard to the appropriation of the promises and their fulfilment in our life. The preacher must not only explain who Christ is and for whom He came into the world, but he must also point out the way that leads to Christ. He must not only point to the necessity of Christ but also how Christ and the lost sinner are brought together [all italics in this quotation mine, C.P.] this faith relationship is established, and how Christ makes room for Himself in the sinner's heart. Many of these elements are missing in sermons today and therefore the people receive stones for bread and they start to look elsewhere for food. Of course, the objective element comes first. We can and may only draw the fullness of the objective truths from Scripture. But the subjective experiences and exercises may never be forgotten. These things also belong to the body of the sermon. If they are missing, the sermon cannot be called Scriptural. [1]

These excerpts clearly show that this minister stood firmly in the Puritan Reformed tradition. That tradition, however, does not begin in the seventeenth century with the fathers of Dort, as some charge, but with Calvin and the other Reformers. It is very significant that most of the quotations in Kievit's book are not from representatives of the Second Reformation, as one would expect, but rather from John Calvin. For instance, he quotes the great Reformer as saying this about the purpose of preaching:

"The end of the whole Gospel ministry is that God, the fountain of all felicity, communicate Christ to us who are separated from God by sin and hence ruined, that we may from Him enjoy eternal life; that in a word, all heavenly treasures be so applied to us that they be no less ours than Christ's Himself.
http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?1104
28th September 2006 04:34 PM
Angiegirl
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Why haven't the Dutch turned out a world class rock n roll band? (Maine hasn't either for that matter....)


We turned out Heineken and doughnuts in our bitterness over that fact and set them on the world. Sorry 'bout that.
28th September 2006 04:35 PM
Dick Bush
quote:
glencar wrote:
Please, study yer history again this upcoming depressing Maine winter. You know not of which you speak.



Glen,

You appear to be a great scholar who recently discovered Spinoza's works are fakes, right?

Vent on buddy, don't suffocate in your ole farts
28th September 2006 04:37 PM
Angiegirl
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:


Dutch Puritans and their Concerns

The Dutch Puritans, even more than their English counterparts, had reason to be thankful for what the Reformation had accomplished in their land. The Reformed Church had become the established church in the Netherlands, and especially after the great Synod of Dort

...

"The end of the whole Gospel ministry is that God, the fountain of all felicity, communicate Christ to us who are separated from God by sin and hence ruined, that we may from Him enjoy eternal life; that in a word, all heavenly treasures be so applied to us that they be no less ours than Christ's Himself.
http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?1104


I told you, Heineken is bad. BAD I say!
28th September 2006 04:38 PM
Ten Thousand Motels The Mayflower Passenger List

http://members.aol.com/calebj/passenger.html
28th September 2006 04:39 PM
glencar
quote:
Dick Bush wrote:


Glen,

You appear to be a great scholar who recently discovered Spinoza's works are fakes, right?

Vent on buddy, don't suffocate in your ole farts

My farts pass quickly in the wind...
28th September 2006 04:42 PM
glencar
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
The Mayflower Passenger List

http://members.aol.com/calebj/passenger.html

Cool link. All Brits though.
28th September 2006 04:45 PM
Ten Thousand Motels THE MAYFLOWER PILGRIMS IN HOLLAND
http://www.mike-reed.com/Travel%20Journal/Holland-Pilgrims.htm
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
28th September 2006 04:46 PM
Angiegirl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims
28th September 2006 04:47 PM
glencar Yes I know they went to Holland before realizing the New World was the place to be. I learned that in 3rd grade. I also learned they were Brits.
28th September 2006 04:48 PM
Angiegirl
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
THE MAYFLOWER PILGRIMS IN HOLLAND
http://www.mike-reed.com/Travel%20Journal/Holland-Pilgrims.htm


I live in Leiden. We have a pilgrim buried here in the big ol' church.
28th September 2006 04:51 PM
Angiegirl
quote:
glencar wrote:
Yes I know they went to Holland before realizing the New World was the place to be. I learned that in 3rd grade. I also learned they were Brits.


True, they were.
Hardly anyone over here knows about them anyway.
28th September 2006 05:03 PM
glencar Where's Leiden in regards to Amsterdam?
28th September 2006 05:10 PM
lotsajizz AMSTEL is great!! NOT Amstel Light...but real AMSTEL!!!



the Dutch efficiently run some nice Caribbean colonies...legal bordellos, beer from desalinated seawater, hash bars, that sort of thing.....



28th September 2006 05:14 PM
Moonisup we founded New york
28th September 2006 05:15 PM
glencar Yes, you did. You should visit & see the remnants of Dutch NY.
28th September 2006 05:16 PM
Angiegirl
quote:
glencar wrote:
Where's Leiden in regards to Amsterdam?


About 27 miles (45 kilometer) south-west of Amsterdam, not too far from our west coast.
28th September 2006 05:17 PM
glencar Oh, I might have gone by it. I know I went along the coast outside Den Haag....
28th September 2006 05:34 PM
Moonisup
quote:
glencar wrote:
Oh, I might have gone by it. I know I went along the coast outside Den Haag....



I recently learned that the NYC vibe is dutch, but we in holland lost that vibe. don't really know if it's true, but I do like the NY vibe!
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