| 26th September 2006 10:06 PM |
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| Fiji Joe |
Sticking with the issue...Riffy is right..moonie is wrong...that's minus one for the Deaniacs |
| 26th September 2006 10:13 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Moonie I wouldn't even begin suggest that you hated anyone. Nor do I hate anyone,D after their name or not. I do find the continual bashing of Bush coming from you to be a little strange though when it comes to the war on terror. And yes,I did read the link. Thanks. However,it does not answer the question about why the NYT and the WP chose to omit the intel that supports our actions in Iraq,and to a larger extent,our war on terror.
You have posted that there is no liberal media bias. As I recall your quote went something like this,"the invented lberal media...",or something to that affect. Well I'd say that this cerry picked illegal leak blows that statement right out of the water. There can be no doubt whatsoever that the NYT and others in the DLM are trying everything in their power to undermine the war effort and slant the news to suit their predetermind liberal agenda. Again,why do the NYT and every looney liberal blogger raise hell about Plamegate,but then fully support the leaks that undermine,and ultimately hurt the war effort? Gee,think maybe there is a little liberal bias in these news rooms?!?!? Ya think?
Riffy
First of all, the media cannot perform an illegal leak as far as I know. Only a government employee can do that. Now, why did the NYT only release parts of the Report? I assume because they only got leaked parts of it. They would be insane to only leak stuff allegedly to make George Walker Bush III look bad, knowing full well the rest would follow, no?
Anyway, non-issue, since we got the full thing in a day. The "issue" is the contenst of that Report, which, to be honest, I didn't find all that interesting. But its certainly not the vindication of Iraq you think it is. Show me, I never saw any of it. |
| 26th September 2006 10:27 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
As one of a very few Vets on this board who has actually been in a live firefight with terrorists, all I can say is this...
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| 26th September 2006 10:27 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Moonie I said that the leak was illegal! Not the reporting of said leak. However,you raise an interesting point. One that I myself have asked now for the last two posts. Why would the NYT act all indignant about the Plame leak,and then go out there way to implicate Rove/Libby/Chenney,and anyone else in the admin over this damnable leak?! They eventually reported that it was,in fact,Armitage that leaked her name. On page A-24! Gee thanks! No bias there!
Funny then that they have reported four,count 'em four,leaks of classified intel and had absolutly no problem reporting these leaks! Every single one of these leaks was reported for one reason,and one reason only. To bring into question the veracity and wisdom of the Bush Admins' handling of the war on terror. On the heals of all these leaks they then choose to cherry pick lines from yet another classified report! [And],if that weren't proof enough of their obvious liberal bias,they then never even bother to question whether the leaker was him/herself acting on an agenda! No. They just let the shit fall where it may. Provided of course,that it hurts Bush. Seems,what's the word here?.....,biased! Which it is. It is designed that way.
Riffy |
| 26th September 2006 10:28 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Sticking with the issue...Riffy is right..moonie is wrong...that's minus one for the Deaniacs
Oh that was good. Nice job. And you didn't even need to cite a blog to reach that conclusion. Slam dunk. Richard Clarke must have been lying - hell, if he said something bad about George Walker Bush III, it has to be a lie!
Feej, you never read it? Really? You? No "abovenessism"?
Any of you guys every just actually curious about anything? I mean like away from the way you wish the world was, ever just actually curious as to what is going on, or what happened?
"The break came in an unlikely location. A pleasant boat ride from British Columbia to Washington State ended with a routine screening by U.S. Customs officers. One passenger in line fidgeted, would not make eye contact. When the Customs officer, Diana Dean, went to pull him out of line, he bolted and ran off the boat, leaving his car on the ferry. Dean gave chase and called for backup. A few minutes later Ahmed Ressam was in custody. . . .If that was not enough to send us spinning, CIA had learned further details about the al Qaeda plot in Jordan. The head of the cell, who had assembled the bombs, had recently quit his job - as a cab driver in Boston." Pg. 211. |
| 26th September 2006 10:47 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
And lo and behold, there it is in the 9/11 Commission Report - but don't fucking read it - whatever you do, don't read the 9/11 Commission Report - no facts in there about what happened. I mean, its not like they reviewed and cited to thousands of supoenaed, confidential docs, e-mails, reports, notes or took oath testimony from dozens of witnesses. They were lying when they said that! |
| 26th September 2006 10:56 PM |
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| Riffhard |
Moonie you act as if Clarke let Bubba off the hook. He didn't! For that matter neither did the 9/11 Report that you love to cite. And yes,I've read it in toto. At the end of the day our entire goverment dropped the ball.
However,there can be no doubt that Sudan did offer us UBL,and Madeline Notsobright and others in the Clinton Admin advised that we did not have a legal reason to accept this offer so he slipped through our hands. Clinton adimitted as much in a speech as recently as 2002. That was one of four seperate chances that Clinton could have taken Bin Laden as reported by the 9/11 Report.
This underscores the main difference between the Republican strategy and the Democrat strategy. Dems want to persue this war as a criminal act and send them all to court. Hell,they have been doing everything in their power to give the terrorists rights under the US Constitution!! Seems rather fucked if y'ins ask me! I mean these Islamofucks would gladly wipe their collective asses with our Constitution,and yet Dems(and some weenie Repubs)want to assure them Constitutional Rights!!
Riffy |
| 26th September 2006 11:33 PM |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
But Riffy...that's what makes us the GOOD guys.
We have a Constitution for a reason. We can't pick and choose what situations that it applies to. If you circumvent the Constitution, you are wiping your ass with it in just the same way that the terrorists do.
This is the problem with fighting terrorist. We have rules that we MUST and SHOULD play by. They don't. What seperates us from the homicidal maniacs is The Constitution and the Geneva Convention.
It's the very essence of why we are more civilized. To disregard these thing...even to fight the scumbags that disregard those very things...drags us down to the same level as said scumbags.
I, for one, do not think that is the proper course of action. We MUST retain our civility. We MUST stay on the high road and set the right example. Yes, it makes the task of defeating the murdering scumbags harder. But if we let the murdering scumbags drag us down to their level, then any victory that we achieve is hollow, and above all, dishonorable.
Speaking as a Vet, we had a saying in the service. Some even had it tattooed on themselves, that's how important it was to them. "Death Before Dishonor". Trust me, that ain't no bumpersticker slogan. |
| 26th September 2006 11:40 PM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
When the Customs officer, Diana Dean, went to pull him out of line, he bolted and ran off the boat, leaving his car on the ferry. Dean gave chase and called for backup. A few minutes later Ahmed Ressam was in custody.
I'm a Diana Deaniac!
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| 27th September 2006 12:06 AM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
But Riffy...that's what makes us the GOOD guys.
We have a Constitution for a reason. We can't pick and choose what situations that it applies to. If you circumvent the Constitution, you are wiping your ass with it in just the same way that the terrorists do.
This is the problem with fighting terrorist. We have rules that we MUST and SHOULD play by. They don't. What seperates us from the homicidal maniacs is The Constitution and the Geneva Convention.
It's the very essence of why we are more civilized. To disregard these thing...even to fight the scumbags that disregard those very things...drags us down to the same level as said scumbags.
I, for one, do not think that is the proper course of action. We MUST retain our civility. We MUST stay on the high road and set the right example. Yes, it makes the task of defeating the murdering scumbags harder. But if we let the murdering scumbags drag us down to their level, then any victory that we achieve is hollow, and above all, dishonorable.
Speaking as a Vet, we had a saying in the service. Some even had it tattooed on themselves, that's how important it was to them. "Death Before Dishonor". Trust me, that ain't no bumpersticker slogan.
Essy I agree with the essence of your post 100%. However,the US Constitution is implicitly our Constitution. It does not apply to those who are not citizens of this nation. For that matter the Geneva Convention is not a treaty which these thugs ever signed. They can not be held accountable to a treaty which they never signed. They can behead,torture,and execute our troops,and they have done so for years now, yet our hands are tied from useing even cohersive means to get intel from them! Even though we know that this method has already stopped several attacks in just the last year alone.
I certainly do not want the USA to lower ourselves to their brutal insane tactics,but make no mistake that they are useing our Constitution and the Geneva Convention against us at every turn. They know that as long as political correctness rules the day we will always bend over and accept their internationally illegal behaviour without any consequences.
We are the GOOD Guys! That much is selfevident to anyone,but the wackjobs at blogs like DU. The problem is that we allow ourselves to be victims by adhearing to a treaty which the jihadists are not even entitled to for the sole reason of feeling better about ourselves. It's war! We must be proactive in the defense of our country,and our allies. If that means cranking up loud music,useing sleep deprivation,and yes,waterboarding then so be it! None of those actions are even considered torture to these animals! They are to libs though,and of course,the ACLU.
Riffy |
| 27th September 2006 12:32 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Oh that was good. Nice job. And you didn't even need to cite a blog to reach that conclusion. Slam dunk. Richard Clarke must have been lying - hell, if he said something bad about George Walker Bush III, it has to be a lie!
Feej, you never read it? Really? You? No "abovenessism"?
Any of you guys every just actually curious about anything? I mean like away from the way you wish the world was, ever just actually curious as to what is going on, or what happened?
I'm just the score keeper...and that's another minus two for the Deaniacs for crying like a baby...it looks like the Deaniacs will need to put their starters back in...this rookie is just not used to the "game speed"...jizzy, rasputin, Stone Jr.? |
| 27th September 2006 12:35 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
I'm a Diana Deaniac!
That's a plus one for having a sense of humor...now if you can just get that ballhog moonie to pass once in a while |
| 27th September 2006 12:39 AM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I'm just the score keeper...and that's another minus two for the Deaniacs for crying like a baby...it looks like the Deaniacs will need to put their starters back in...this rookie is just not used to the "game speed"...jizzy, rasputin, Stone Jr.?
Damn right, feej. Crybaby bookworms! We all know that thinking, reading and actually knowing what you're talking about are extremely overrated and absolutely unnecessary to manly pursuits like running a war (Rummy) or a country (Dubya).
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler] |
| 27th September 2006 12:48 AM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Deaniacs Unite!
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
A Vernon Wormer Deaniac?
Double secret Gitmo!
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler] |
| 27th September 2006 12:51 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Moonie you act as if Clarke let Bubba off the hook. He didn't! For that matter neither did the 9/11 Report that you love to cite. And yes,I've read it in toto. At the end of the day our entire goverment dropped the ball.
However,there can be no doubt that Sudan did offer us UBL,and Madeline Notsobright and others in the Clinton Admin advised that we did not have a legal reason to accept this offer so he slipped through our hands. Clinton adimitted as much in a speech as recently as 2002. That was one of four seperate chances that Clinton could have taken Bin Laden as reported by the 9/11 Report.
This underscores the main difference between the Republican strategy and the Democrat strategy. Dems want to persue this war as a criminal act and send them all to court. Hell,they have been doing everything in their power to give the terrorists rights under the US Constitution!! Seems rather fucked if y'ins ask me! I mean these Islamofucks would gladly wipe their collective asses with our Constitution,and yet Dems(and some weenie Repubs)want to assure them Constitutional Rights!!
Riffy
Riffy, if you can find one post where I said or suggested that Clarke let "Bubba" of the hook, let me know. If you can find one post where is said the 9/11 Commission Report let Clinton off the hook, let me know. The mere point is the incredibly biased and/or stupid posts that Bush Fans (howe's that, less insulting?) make here every day, are fully explained in two comprehensive and vetted documents. Did you read that bullshit Telecaster posted? Did you laugh? Why not?
And the government did drop the ball to some extent on 9/11, but as I said elsewhere those Islamics got damn lucky that day - everything went their way out of pure Providence.
Send me a link on the Sudan thing. Please make it a real one, I will not read another Telecaster type blog that doesn't even say what he pretends it represents. Anyway, bottom line is you have to be able to charge someone in Court to fuck them, if Clinton team made a legal assessment they couldn't charge, they had no other option but to hope some lesser country would take and kill him. Not even your hero George Walker Bush III has extra-judicially killed a person in U.S. custody. Its fucking impossible in this day and age, you can't Catch-22 "disappear" people.
Plus, weren't you saying the other day that it didn't matter if we got bin Laden? George Walker Bush III says sometimes that too. I dissent on that one. That's fucking stupid and dangerous, IMHMFCO. Beyond stupid. Like retard stupid. George Walker Bush III type stupid. Like most Americans, I care very much where the leader of Al Quada is and what he is doing. Call it a silly little 9/11 thing we have going. |
| 27th September 2006 01:02 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I'm just the score keeper...and that's another minus two for the Deaniacs for crying like a baby...it looks like the Deaniacs will need to put their starters back in...this rookie is just not used to the "game speed"...jizzy, rasputin, Stone Jr.?
This is subpar. I'm not sure if you are Couch-worthy anymore. Take some time off, work on the fundamentals, find a new coach maybe. But don't come in here with this low-grade text again. Shades of Blass. |
| 27th September 2006 01:02 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Brainbell Jangler wrote:
Damn right, feej. Crybaby bookworms! We all know that thinking, reading and actually knowing what you're talking about are extremely overrated and absolutely unnecessary to manly pursuits like running a war (Rummy) or a country (Dubya).
[Edited by Brainbell Jangler]
Oh...I think the issue was mis-directed to suit one's pre-loaded platitudes...the issue is not the report...it is the political opportunism of those making use of select portions of the report...no one involved gives a fuck about the truth of that report...you're not going to see any objective takes from any of the politicians involved and you're not going to see it on this message board...it's really that simple
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| 27th September 2006 01:06 AM |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
This is subpar. I'm not sure if you are Couch-worthy anymore. Take some time off, work on the fundamentals, find a new coach maybe. But don't come in here with this low-grade text again. Shades of Blass.
You Deaniacs are all alike...take it to the gutter...instead of taking it to the street
Clinton sux |
| 27th September 2006 01:15 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Oh...I think the issue was mis-directed to suit one's pre-loaded platitudes...the issue is not the report...it is the political opportunism of those making use of select portions of the report...no one involved gives a fuck about the truth of that report...you're not going to see any objective takes from any of the politicians involved and you're not going to see it on this message board...it's really that simple
Hey! I was fair about the Report. Not much of interest in there.
You're habit of laterally the ball on these is looking kind of weak.
Alteralling. Lateralling. Lateraling? Fuck. Fuck it.
[Edited by sirmoonie] |
| 27th September 2006 01:16 AM |
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| Brainbell Jangler |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Oh...I think the issue was mis-directed to suit one's pre-loaded platitudes...the issue is not the report...it is the political opportunism of those making use of select portions of the report...no one involved gives a fuck about the truth of that report...you're not going to see any objective takes from any of the politicians involved and you're not going to see it on this message board...it's really that simple
Silly me. I thought the issue was you calling sirmoonie a crybaby for pointing out that you draw conclusions without bothering to read the material. |
| 27th September 2006 01:18 AM |
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| pdog |
Doh!
[Edited by pdog] |
| 27th September 2006 01:27 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Oh...I think the issue was mis-directed to suit one's pre-loaded platitudes...the issue is not the report...it is the political opportunism of those making use of select portions of the report...no one involved gives a fuck about the truth of that report...you're not going to see any objective takes from any of the politicians involved and you're not going to see it on this message board...it's really that simple
You are starting to repeat yourself. One must be resourceful, even on the main themes. There is a different and creative way to insult someone each and every time. I'm not going to tell you this again. I will not repeat myself. Do you hear me? I will not repeat myself! |
| 27th September 2006 01:42 AM |
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| pdog |
I want to know how MY President, OUR President, sat and ate dinner with a man who won't allow us to go get Bin Laden...
I actually feel nauseus... Where's the tough talk and swagger...
Am I the only who cares OUR Commander In Chief just got punked from a guy who rules b/c of a Coup d'État...
If a blow job in the white house pissed you off, and this punk from Pakistan telling us we can't go after Bin Laden doesn't, then I want you to reach down, check your twig and berries.
If this was John Kerry, hosting Pervy Mushroom, you guys would be shitting pickles. Where's the outrage! There seems to be more outrage over 9/11 when Iraq comes up, then actually getting to Bin Laden...
See I want Bush to get Bin Laden, unlike some folks who seem to enjoy watching Americans fail at serving thier country.
Where are the patriots? Fucking "A" America DUDE!
What The What?
I'm so fucking done. I can deal with the ineptitude and mismangement, the mistakes that cost lives.
I wil never listen to one more Neo-Con pundit tell me that Dems are pussies and soft on terror, while the President allows this to happen!
Some five foot two guy, who calls himself President General just punk'd America. And not one peep!
If Bush was in prison he'd be using Kool Aid to make lipstick and doing a pole dance with a mop.
Where's the outrage?
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| 27th September 2006 02:02 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I want to know how MY President, OUR President, sat and ate dinner with a man who won't allow us to go get Bin Laden...
I actually feel nauseus... Where's the tough talk and swagger...
Am I the only who cares OUR Commander In Chief just got punked from a guy who rules b/c of a Coup d'État...
If a blow job in the white house pissed you off, and this punk from Pakistan telling us we can't go after Bin Laden doesn't, then I want you to reach down, check your twig and berries.
If this was John Kerry, hosting Pervy Mushroom, you guys would be shitting pickles. Where's the outrage! There seems to be more outrage over 9/11 when Iraq comes up, then actually getting to Bin Laden...
See I want Bush to get Bin Laden, unlike some folks who seem to enjoy watching Americans fail at serving thier country.
Where are the patriots? Fucking "A" America DUDE!
What The What?
I'm so fucking done. I can deal with the ineptitude and mismangement, the mistakes that cost lives.
I wil never listen to one more Neo-Con pundit tell me that Dems are pussies and soft on terror, while the President allows this to happen!
Some five foot two guy, who calls himself President General just punk'd America. And not one peep!
If Bush was in prison he'd be using Kool Aid to make lipstick and doing a pole dance with a mop.
Where's the outrage?
Dude, listen, fuck it. Its Bush Geek Fuck Ing Ism. Not one of these guys - Max, Telecaster, Mao Fuji, Riffy, etc. - can explain it. Don't ask them too, it upsets them, and they have to go find blog links about Clinton. Or even worse, his wife. I don't think they have the capacity to explain anymore - I'm convinced its like a dyslexia now, a 5th grade dyslexia, they can't even see what you just typed. Or Powell said, or all the military guys said, or every conservative in the country said, or fuck the list is now endless of people who said the obvious.
Yeah that fucking idiot in the White House got his ass punked by Pakistan today. He gets his assed punked every day. Iran laughs at us. Quadaffi laughs at us. Hezzbollah is still pissing their pants over that "war." North Korea is done laughing at us, they don't even pretend to care anymore. We'll see a bin Laden video before the month is out - he'll be cracking up. And who cares about all this says George Walker Bush III and his fans? He knows howe to spend tons of green $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, so he's right, no? He am George Walker Bush III after all. |
| 27th September 2006 07:52 AM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
They would be insane to only leak stuff allegedly to make George Walker Bush III look bad, knowing full well the rest would follow, no?
Bwwwa ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh christ, not this early in the morning Moonie! |
| 27th September 2006 08:06 AM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Dude, listen, fuck it. Its Bush Geek Fuck Ing Ism. Not one of these guys - Max, Telecaster, Mao Fuji, Riffy, etc. - can explain it.
I've already explained how I felt in one line: He's doing a lot to help us under threat of his own life. Pakistan has nailed quite a few high value targets in the last few years. More than the libs best friends like France and Russia. Also, Bush was anything but "punked" by him. Word has come out that we threatend his ass pretty good to get on baord right after 9/11. He's our b*tch and I guarantee he was reminded of this over dinner. And Fiji chimed in with the very improtant fact that if he gets overthrown, Al Qeada has nukes instantly.
Based on this, can you explain why we shouldn't be working with this guy?
I await your response to my question.
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| 27th September 2006 09:42 AM |
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| rasputin56 |
You know the Republicans are getting their asses kicked when they have to once again resort to whining about some made up "liberal media bias". For chrissakes, if it wasn't for your so-called "DLM" bending over and taking it dry from the Man (see Miller, Cooper, the entire WaPo staff including editorial board), the right wing wackos wouldn't have their excellent adventure in Iraq. They're still doing! Just this a.m., Lauer let the degenerate gambler get away with making up a direct connection between 9/11 and Iraq. Didn't even say "WTF are talking about, Snake eyes?" Pathetic.
Face it, the media is not "liberal" or "conservative". They are lazy. They print whatever is fed to them, no questions asked. The more sensational, the better. Now, try something better. |
| 27th September 2006 09:44 AM |
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| rasputin56 |
and for the record...more honeys. |
| 27th September 2006 09:48 AM |
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| jb |
NO such thin g as liberal media..righties control almost all of the airwaves....another "bogeyman" they brilliantly have used to look after the folks.. |
| 27th September 2006 09:52 AM |
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| Chuck |
A Comparison Between GWBush's And Clinton's Response To A Terrorist Attack Warning
========================
CLINTON:
Early December 1999 US Takes Action to Stop al-Qaeda Millennium Bombing Plot :
The CIA learns from the Jordanian government about an al-Qaeda millennium bombing plot. Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke is told of this, and he implements a plan to neutralize the threat. [Clarke, 2004, pp. 205, 211] The plan, approved by President Clinton, focuses on harassing and disrupting al-Qaeda members throughout the world. The FBI is put on heightened alert, counterterrorism teams are dispatched overseas, a formal ultimatum is given to the Taliban to keep al-Qaeda under control, and friendly intelligence agencies are asked to help. There are Cabinet-level meetings nearly every day dealing with terrorism [Washington Post, 4/2/2000; Associated Press, 6/28/2002] All US embassies, military bases, police departments, and other agencies are given a warning to be on the lookout for signs of an al-Qaeda millennium attack. One alert border agent responds by arresting terrorist Ahmed Ressam (see December 14, 1999), which leads to the unraveling of several bombing plots (see December 14-31, 1999).
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a121431thwarted
GEORGE W BUSH:
Bush receives one of several warning reports from the CIA on 6th of August 2001.
Bush goes fishing straight after the meeting where the report is presented.
He commences his holidays. Bush takes no action.
No action is taken on any of the CIA warnings (including the specific Aug 6 memo) that Richard Clarke and George Tenet are intentionally sending to Bush to get him to do something about the impending attack.
[Edited by Chuck] |
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