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Performing "Rock me baby" with Buddy Guy
Orpheum Theatre, Boston September 8, 2002
Scanned from IORR No. 45, photo by Kevin Mazur

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Topic: Revisiting Ronnie's performances on this tour... Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
09-24-02 05:40 PM
gotdablouse Now that a few tapes have surfaced (Fleet, Aragon, UC, etc...) those of us not lucky enough to make it to the gigs yet can start forming an opinion on the much heralded "rebirth" of Ronnie Wood. Let me first say that I'm NOT a "Ronnie Basher" by trade, but have been quite alarmed to see his playing go downhill ever since the mid-80s, to reach its nadir in the late 90s.

Anyway after the first show we had the "ThesavageyoungIzzy" frantically posting that "Ronnie was a a reborn guitar God", etc...not that he ever was one, but let's put that aside.

It seems that once again the "wishful thinking" syndrome, that hits Stones fans (and the Stones Marketing machine) each time they release a new album or start a new tour. Invariably these say "havent' been better since...", you pick your choice of 1971, 1978 or 1981. I think it's only human, but let's try to be reasonable about this!

Someone posted that "...Ronnie...is playing now and playing damn well"

The tapes that have surfaced only validate the first part AFAICT, i.e. "he is playing", the massive mistakes in nearly each song, i.e. solo doesn't begin on time, hits the wrong notes, bridge missed, etc...certainly don't show any evidence of the "second". Funnily enough the tapes of the 94/95, 97/98 and 99 tours sound much less sloppy because he wasn't playing much and therefore making fewer mistakes. According to reports it seems that unlike in previous tours, Keith is also making a lot of mistakes, even earning him a bad eye from Ronnie on stage. Figure that !

To end on a positive note, the Band sounds sloppier than ever since 1978 and that Leavell's "slickness" seems to have been discarded thanks to the energy level of the Main 4. This time what's nice is that they're dusting up stuff they'd never done and playing songs we'd thought they'd never play live (like Dance, but I'm sure that's something Mick promised to Ronnie when he told him to clean up or pack up back in the Spring...)

PS - Who does the LOUD count ins at the beginning of each track? Is that Chuck ?

09-24-02 05:55 PM
doo doo doo Dude I like what I've heard so far but am just afraid that by the the time the Stones reach the west coast Ronnie will be back to his fist-pumping air-guitar antics.

IMO, there is no way that a three-month old recovering alcoholic can possibly stay sober while on tour with the world's most legendary party band. No way.
09-24-02 06:04 PM
sirmoonie You know a lot more about this than I do Blousie, but I just disagree at least on the United Center show I saw. First, Keith obviously flubbed quite a bit, Ronnie much less so from what I could tell. But a lot of times, playing the studio track verbatim isn't what we want is it? My impression of Ronnie that night was that a very competent, soulfull player was on fire, making the guitar up front and carrying the song with continuous strong licks and fills.

Hey I like that. Working "licks and fills" in like that.

No really, thats what I saw Blousie. Maybe the boot-Ronnies won't bear out the actual live-Ronnies? Maybe you need new speakers? I dunno, but it has been nearly everyone from here and Gasland that have said this about Ronnie, and many of them are serious Stones scholars like yourself. Hasn't all been my brand of guitar ignorance or Savy's type of youthful enthusiasm.

Just my little bit. Just my O.

Mongo.
09-24-02 06:13 PM
gotdablouse Good points, I'm afraid new speakers won't help with the missed starts and the wrong notes...examples, Aragon/hand of Fate, Aragon/IORR, etc...

I just heard CYHMK from FUC and I must say that Ronnie's solo is rather good. At last they've cranked up the fuzz/distortion on his guitar and that helps with the sustain a lot, much less choppiness !

I think we owe it to ourselves and to other fans (me included) waiting to see the shows to be honest and not say Ronnie is a fabulous guitar God, it's ridiculous, he never was and never will be. I'm just happy that he's playing again, but let's not raise expectations too much!

So you're saying Keith had a bad day again at FUC...hum...other reports said the bad day he had on the first night hadn't happened again...hard to get objective reports here, isn't it!

09-24-02 06:16 PM
sirmoonie No, I was at Chicago United Center. Wouldn't say it was a bad day, necessarily. Just wondering where some of what I understand to be his chords were every now and then.

I hear what you're saying though.
09-24-02 06:53 PM
Maxlugar I have been worrying about that.

Trying not to get my hopes up from all these Ronnie is playing unbeleiveable posts.

I want to go in with an unbiased opinion.

I'll let you all know on Friday morning what I think.

09-24-02 08:48 PM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy My name seems rather hard to spell right. Just three letters, repeat two of them sometime and you've got the last word, loosely. But who put an I in there?

There is no "I" in TheSavageYoungXyzzy!

As for Ronnie -

I still stand by that frantic post made at one in the morning. Ronnie was sober and dead on. As for Ronnie being a 'rock god' - you can choose for yourself when you see them live. The *tension* at the end of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" is even palpable in the audience recordings of the Fleet - that bastard talking about "This is the Rolling Stones and they're playing saxaphone and harmonica, where's the-" is cut off as Ronnie rips into it.

You must remember - I don't think there are any soundboard recordings in open circulation. What we're getting are mainly audience recordings, and the ones in the stadiums are going to be understandably distorted by poor sound systems, delay, crowd noise, &c. When you see him live, assuming he's sober and happy, you'll see what I mean. What I hear from the FUC is alright - but I'd love to get a cleaner recording, especially of something like "When The Whip Comes Down" or "Far Away Eyes" which both sounded terrible in the audience recording.

I understand and respect your view, and you've obviously heard a lot more shows than I have! I really belive that a sober Ronnie walks a meaner beat than Mick Taylor 75% of the time. I also haven't had much from the 90s to compare except the studio albums - 9/3 was my first concert.

So when you see them live, your perception of him may very well change!

And I'm hoping against hope cooler heads prevail to keep him sober. Keith and Charlie both hit the bottle like crazy, Mick's not much fun to hang out with if you're Ronnie and would much rather be with Keith. I think, actually, if Keith looked after him, he'd keep clean. Keith would just give him a smack and he'd learn how to hang out around someone who drinks *constantly* without getting any urges. And, if that fails...

It's all up to you, Jo!

-tSYX --- Jo, Josephine!
09-25-02 01:48 AM
gotdablouse I can understand the post-concert excitement SYX and while Ronnie is undoubtedly a "rock god", he probably doesn't qualify as a "guitar god" which was your original post I beliebve. Guitar Gods are few and far between and you would have guys like Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Keith (in his own category), etc...

As for the quality of the recordings, yeah they haven't been great, although the Aragon is rather good. Thing is soundboards (unaltered of course) won't help hide the massive mistakes that nearly each song has. I mean listen to Hand Of Fate from Aragon, the bridge is a real disaster and the solo is really out of place. Same thing for the solo on IORR, starts at the wrong time, hits the wrong notes...really bad. But as someone said, at least he's playing, which is an improvement even if it means more sloppiness thant when Leavell was filling in the gaps !

Let's see what shape he's in in Ca, but again, let's do without the "wishful thinking". Looking forward to Maxy's report from the MSG.
09-25-02 02:03 AM
padre [quote]TheSavageYoungXyzzy wrote:
Keith would just give him a smack and he'd learn how to hang out around someone who drinks *constantly* without getting any urges.

Keith giving smack to Ronnie? My God, no! Isn't booze enough? Keep the man clean I say!
09-25-02 09:32 AM
MC KEEF HAVING BEEN TO 4 SHOWS SO FAR I HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED WITH RONNIE STEPPING TO THE FRONT A LOT MORE..HIS PLAYING HAS BEEN DYNAMIC AT TIMESAND HE DOES SEEM REBORN ..BUT ONLY BECAUSE HE WAS SO LOST IN 97/99.. I LOVE RONNIE TO DEATH
BUT LETS BE HONEST ---HE AINT NO MICK TAYLOR!!!!!!!!!!
THE STONES HAVE BEEN GREAT SO FAR AND RONNIE IS A BIG PART OF THAT BUT IT AINT LIKE IT USED TO BE...
09-25-02 10:05 AM
lonecrapshooter gotdablouse if you are going to quote me please use my name (which I'm proud of) as opposed to "someone" I have seen the Stones only 24 times since '89 mostly on BTB but no dobut in my mind that so far this tour is the best they have sounded since then but JMO ...I was blown away at FUC and read many rave reviews right here on Rock's Off (sir stonesalot had one) so it wasn't just me who was in awe. your points are valid. I think many of us are just plain estatic that the boys have a new sound and a new guitar player this tour...he is not a god..but as Mckeef said he is in fact "stepping to the front" and also jamming wth Keith. It was so pathetic watching him in 97-99 that the fact that he is stepping up now is great to watch and great to hear...as far as mistakes though even Keith has made his fair share...I think you will be posting some great reviews too when you see them
09-25-02 10:13 AM
Sir Stonesalot Obviously we must all be looking for different things in the music. I've never been a stickler for perfection. I LIKE sloppy. IMO, all the best bands are loose and sloppy. It's just the way I think real R&R should be played. Solo starts a little late...big deal. Hit a few bum notes...so what. When I am evaluating a song, I go more by how it makes me FEEL. I can honestly say that at The Vet, I was FEELING everything that the Stones played. And a big reason for that was Ron Wood. Maybe he didn't hit every note perfectly. Maybe he didn't hit his cues right on. But this I know, he made every song that he played on(and that was ALL of them)better. He played a solo on his Dan Armstrong clear body literally right in my face. I couldn't really hear the solo for all the half naked women screaming in my ears, but one thing I can speak about it.....Ronnie was TRYING really hard. This fact alone is astounding given the past couple of tours.

Boots are a funny thing. I have been to some shows that I didn't think were any great shakes, but when I heard the boot I said, "WOW. That was a lot better than I thought." And vice versa. My advice is go to the shows and make your judgement there. And try not to get hung up on technical playing. Rock and Roll isn't really a technical kind of music. At least not in my opinion.

Look at it like this. Queen and Rush are very technical bands. They play with lots of precision. They also bore the daylights out of me. The Stones, and The Clash are loose, sloppy bands. They make my blood race, and my adrenal glands work OT. Some people prefer the former, some people prefer the later. Whatever. But just because a player like Woody doesn't play with the surgical precision of an Eric Clapton, doesn't mean that he isn't every bit as good in some people's eyes.

I do consider Ron Wood a guitar god. I consider Joe Strummer to be a guitar god. Why not? I love the way they play. I'm sure my Guitar god list is different from yours, which is different from Xyzzy's. Mr. Blouse, you have every right to tell us who is on YOUR list. But you have no right to tell Xyzzy who should be on his list. That's for him to decide. It's for me to decide who is on my list. Disagree if you like, to be sure, but don't tell us that we are wrong. It's a subjective topic...there is no wrong.

Have fun at the CA shows, and let us know if you change your mind. I'm betting you will.
[Edited by Sir Stonesalot]
09-25-02 10:24 AM
nankerphelge Agreed -- it wasn't perfect -- but it was damn good last Friday. Is Love In Vain available yet from FUC -- if it is, I suggest y'all take a listen!
09-25-02 11:12 AM
Maxlugar Word, Sir Stonesalot.

It's the same with Women.

I love that little pucker that Nici Sterling's anus has. Now most guys might find that disgusting, being said pucker is from over 100 cocks pounding it.

But not me.

So there.

Don't ever tell me that isn't sexy.

What the hell where we talking about again?

Oh well..........

Er...what is it I usually do now?

Oh yeah!

Maxy!!!
09-25-02 11:32 AM
Sir Stonesalot Yes Maxy!

Just like women!

Exactly.

Some guys are leg men. Some guys are ass men. Some guys are into tits. Some guys are into Wolf Puss.

It's all good.

Fuck Yup!

Hey Maxy...see you tomorrow!
09-25-02 11:39 AM
sirmoonie Moof piss. Goat piss.

Why can't I stop saying stuff like that? Damn, thats aggravating. My apologizes. Sheeeshh...

Hey, can we do a C10 group moon out the door of YOTI? You know, kinda symbolic like.

Holy cow, this all happens tomorrow. Butterflys anyone?Yikes!!!!!
09-25-02 11:41 AM
Moonisup
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Yes Maxy!

Just like women!

Exactly.

Some guys are leg men. Some guys are ass men. Some guys are into tits. Some guys are into Wolf Puss.

It's all good.

Fuck Yup!

Hey Maxy...see you tomorrow!



yeah

2 words

Ronnie Rocks
09-25-02 04:40 PM
woodywoodpecker
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Good points, I'm afraid new speakers won't help with the missed starts and the wrong notes...examples, Aragon/hand of Fate, Aragon/IORR, etc...

I just heard CYHMK from FUC and I must say that Ronnie's solo is rather good. At last they've cranked up the fuzz/distortion on his guitar and that helps with the sustain a lot, much less choppiness !

I think we owe it to ourselves and to other fans (me included) waiting to see the shows to be honest and not say Ronnie is a fabulous guitar God, it's ridiculous, he never was and never will be. I'm just happy that he's playing again, but let's not raise expectations too much!

So you're saying Keith had a bad day again at FUC...hum...other reports said the bad day he had on the first night hadn't happened again...hard to get objective reports here, isn't it!

HEY GOTABLOUSE WHY DONT YOU WEAR IT ON YOUR HEAD TO SHUT UP THE CRAP THAT YOURE TALKING!!!
RONNIE IS A GUITAR GOD AND ITS NOT REDICULOUS. YOU GUYS SPEAK OF THE BAND AS IF YOU ARE ROCKET SCIENTISTS. TRUE STONES FANS ARE ON SUCH A BUZZ AND YOU GUYS ARE THERE
BAGGING THEM ON ANY CHANCE. THE YOUNG SAVAGE OBVIOUSLY KNOWS TALENT WHEN HE HEARS IT. TRY AND PLAY GUITAR FOR 20 YEARS AND I WILL BET MY BOTTOM DOLLAR RONNIE WOULD KICK YOUR ASS FROM HERE TO THE MOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE PECKER


09-25-02 07:27 PM
T&A What the hell is a Rock God? Let's have an example? Mick Taylor? okay. Ronnie Wood works in a different world than that. he's a team player and role player. Sometimes his role is to rip off a rock'n'roll solo - something he damned near wrote the book on in the 70's. Sometimes it is to do the weave with Keith. Sometimes it is to ape or imitate a part done by a predecessor - be it MT or BJ. He does each of these things incredibly well. By that definition - he is a rarity in the business - and I'll call him a Rock God.

He's playing damned well in the year 2002. Screw the tapes or any "analysis" about mistakes you think you hear. What's the definition of a mistake--to suggest it presumes you know what he intended to play --- and you don't. Rock'n'roll is a freelance art form - it doesn't know what it is until after its creation.

The Stones are a band - the total is greater than the sum of the parts. The sum sounds better than it has in ages. That's a fact, Jack. Quit trying to break it down and over-analyze it.

09-25-02 08:00 PM
gotdablouse as usual one or two reasonable posts and the rest...well the rest is the standard "Ronnie and Keith can do no wrong, shut up asshole"...
'nuff said, go back to your dreams.

Maxy - don't forget to update this thread on Friday if you can, as your judgement doesn't seem to be clouded by the above "Ronnie and Keith can do no wrong, shut up asshole" cliche that is so prevalent here.

Till then.
09-26-02 06:22 AM
woodywoodpecker Hey gottablouse,
you didnt indicate to whom your last post was aimed at.
Was it little Ol Me????
Did I get under your skin?
If it was me, go back to studying science and let Rockn roll
be the art form it was intended to be and I hope next time you see Ronnie Live your jaw drops to your Ankles.

By the way W.T.F is this Taylor guy anyway???

09-26-02 07:59 AM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
as usual one or two reasonable posts and the rest...well the rest is the standard "Ronnie and Keith can do no wrong, shut up asshole"...
'nuff said, go back to your dreams.



Hey, man, if there's one thing this tour has proved, it's that Keith can do a whole lotta wrong, just as Ronnie can do a whole lotta right.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Sir Stonesalot on this one - what is a "Rock God"? It's tough to define - people like Clapton and Hendrix force others to play around them, which, while often a powerful combination, also makes them not the best 'team' players. Micky T. could play like a muthafucka, but he just didn't *fit in*, often times both musically and socially. Ronnie and Keith's 'weave' really makes a lot of the latter-day Stones numbers, live and studio. Ronnie's a versitile player, has a great sense of humor, and really belongs in the band. I was listening to "Buried Alive" offa Gimme Some Neck last night - now that's a weave that's so perfect it sounds like one guitar played by two people.

So yeah, who's to say who is or isn't a rock god? It's like comparing The Beatles and Stones and Who to each other - in the end it's all subjective.

And once you hear Ronnie live, I hope you'll hear what's got people up in the buzz about him! But that's his job as much as yours...

-tSYX --- And all that's left is an image that I've filed away...
09-26-02 08:24 AM
Maxlugar Maybe we each have our own little Guitar God inside all of us.

It's very subjective.

Mine?

Mr. Jeff Beck. I find it hard to believe it when someone tells me they can't get into him. "Lunacy" I say to myself under breath when I hear it.

All the different bands and styles!

Oh, speaking of which, I have uncovered a rare photo of Jeff when he was in the Harry Potter Blues Experience. It was a short-lived quartet that rocked this world from July 18th 1968 to July 20th 1968. Take a look. Scroll down a bit and you'll see:

Jeff Beck guitar, Rod Stewart (with trend setting goatee) vocals, Harry Potter maracas, drums and accordion, and a child like Ronnie Wood on bass.

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/2214/jbeck_i.htm

Harry left due to "an over abundance of magic Wand jokes" by Rod and Ronnie.

So the Harry Potter Blues Quartet died.

But the Jeff Beck group was born!

YES!

Maxy
09-26-02 08:28 AM
stonedinaustralia right out of the park max!! lol
09-26-02 08:46 AM
Maxlugar Thanks Aussie Dude.

And thanks for not noticing I called them the Harry Potter Blues Experience at the beginning and then the Harry Potter Blues Quartet at the end.

It's hard to concentrate on Stonesmas!

Rock it!

ML

09-26-02 08:57 AM
stonedinaustralia
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:

It's hard to concentrate on Stonesmas!




i bet it is - i take it you have to go to work?
09-26-02 09:05 AM
Maxlugar I'm at work now, yes.

But how can my bosses expect me to do anything on this most Holy of Days?

Help!
09-26-02 09:36 AM
stonedinaustralia hang in there 'til lunch time - then phone in and say you don't feel well or just front the boss and say "look boss, today i am absolutely no use to you at all, in fact my inability to concentrate may well be a liability to the business - indeed, as a responsible employer you have a duty to the company, to yourself and most of all to me, to give me the rest of the day off" - he'll admire you for your honesty
09-26-02 09:55 AM
lonecrapshooter stonedinaustralia what you wrote sounds just like Ignatius J. Reilly from the book the The Confederacy of Dunces. Ignatius would not miss a Stones show and surely would take a holiday.
09-26-02 10:11 AM
Maxlugar Has anyone been watching that fantastic Civil War documentary on PBS?

Unbelieveable!

Stonewall Maxy!
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