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Topic: How will weak sales effect the Stones? Return to archive Page: 1 2
September 27th, 2005 09:31 PM
the good While respectable, the sales figures to date for ABB have to be somewhat disappointing for the Stones, especially considering all the great reviews the album got. Do you think this will lessen their desire to make another album? Could this be it as far as new Stones records go?
September 27th, 2005 09:41 PM
Soldatti I don't think that 1.100,000 after 2 weeks it's bad, actually its great. The US sales are disappointing but the album it's selling very well worldwide.
September 27th, 2005 09:54 PM
winter To me the benchmark for any artist at this point this late in their career is Time Out of Mind by Dylan, which is IMHO one of the top 10 albums over the past decade. And I am nothing more than a casual Dylan fan. Does anyone have comparison numbers in terms of sales?

wintah
September 27th, 2005 10:34 PM
exile Realeasing the video would help.
September 27th, 2005 10:42 PM
Riffhard
quote:
winter wrote:
To me the benchmark for any artist at this point this late in their career is Time Out of Mind by Dylan, which is IMHO one of the top 10 albums over the past decade. And I am nothing more than a casual Dylan fan. Does anyone have comparison numbers in terms of sales?

wintah



I fully agree with you here winter,but I gotta go with Love and Theft as the better of an unbelieveable one two punch from Zimmy. I love them both,but LaT,to my ears,is the better of the two.

I'm afraid that the Stones will never be able to replicate Bob's brilliant comeback. Keith does not seem to be in any kind of a hurry to prove himself as a songwriter again. Jagger is too preoccupied by loads of other distractions to give it his all. I'd like to think together they could put out another masterpeice,but I'm afraid they just don't have the old "fire in their belly" anymore. Not that I'm knocking A Bigger Bqang,mind you. I like the album alot,but it is a far cry from the sheer brilliance of TOOM and LaT.

I think that as a songwriting team Mick and Keith are just not concerned with the prospect of really delving into the minutia of creation these days. They created their best music when they were still pissed off at what was perceieved to be the establishment. Now they are the establishment. It's hard to write angry piss and vinegar Stones' type rock and roll songs like Stray Cat Blues,Bitch,Can't You Hear Me Knocking,Brown Sugar,etc. when your estimated networth is twice that of most third world countries.

They are enjoying the fruits of their labors it would seem,and if they have to be bothered to actully make any new music don't look for another album like any of the "Big Four". The closest we ever got to that quality happened in 1978. That was a full twenty seven years ago. I still love 'em though,and I'll still keep my fingers crossed if another album does come out.

Keith stated a couple of years ago afterall that the Stones were effectivly a "touring band" these days. Those are his words not mine. So I think that pretty much sums up just how much of a priority another Exile is to the Stones.

Stranger things have happened though. I mean afterall,who thought Dylan had two more great albums in him? Perhaps the Stones will make another brilliant album,and go out in a blaze of glory. That would be great!


Riffhard
September 27th, 2005 11:11 PM
Sir Stonesalot Does anyone think that the Stones really give a flying fuck about album sales? Virgin already paid them for the album.

These days all a new album is to the Stones is product to tour behind. That is where the real money is for the Stones.

Think about it. Even if the Stones sell 10 million albums...that is chump change compared to what they make from a tour...and the tour merch. They don't want you to spend $10.00 on a CD. They want you to spend $454.00 for a ticket, and $45.00 for a shirt, and $10.00 on a blinky tongue pin.

That is what it's all about, and has been since Steel Wheels.
September 28th, 2005 12:22 AM
Dan True, this album is already paid for. However, if it doesn't sell enough copies, their label will drop them and they wont get to record another album, film another video or ever go on tour ever again. At least this is what my friend who used to be signed to Virgin Records says. If you really like the Stones you should buy at least 3 copies of their new album.

Of course there is always the chance some other label would pick them up but that doesn't really happen much anymore.
September 28th, 2005 12:43 AM
Riffhard
quote:
Dan wrote:
True, this album is already paid for. However, if it doesn't sell enough copies, their label will drop them and they wont get to record another album, film another video or ever go on tour ever again. At least this is what my friend who used to be signed to Virgin Records says. If you really like the Stones you should buy at least 3 copies of their new album.

Of course there is always the chance some other label would pick them up but that doesn't really happen much anymore.




Not true at all Dan. Just having the Stones on the lable gives Virgin an enormous cache' in the recording industry. Not to mention the Stones library that they (Virgin) are now reaping huge bucks from. Nobody is ever gonna drop the Stones. That time has come and gone. It was roughly between 1964-1968. Since then the Stones have been etched into the "untouchable" club. It would be lable suicide for Virgin to drop the Stones. They have almost no commercially viable artists as it is. Virgin makes enormous bucks from the Stones,and would be the laughing stock of the industry if they ever blew that massive library of money making hits.


Riffhard
September 28th, 2005 01:16 AM
Dan
quote:
Riffhard wrote:

Not true at all Dan. Just having the Stones on the lable gives Virgin an enormous cache' in the recording industry. Not to mention the Stones library that they (Virgin) are now reaping huge bucks from. Nobody is ever gonna drop the Stones. That time has come and gone. It was roughly between 1964-1968. Since then the Stones have been etched into the "untouchable" club. It would be lable suicide for Virgin to drop the Stones. They have almost no commercially viable artists as it is. Virgin makes enormous bucks from the Stones,and would be the laughing stock of the industry if they ever blew that massive library of money making hits.


Riffhard



Not true? Then don't buy any copies of their new album and post here when they give you another one.
September 28th, 2005 01:29 AM
Riffhard Dan,you are completely missing the point here. You stated,"their label will drop them and they wont get to record another album..." My point is that their label would never dream of droping them. Elvis has been dead since 1977,but I guarantee that he will never be dropped from his label. Same is true with the Stones. Their sheer body of work (ie-money making library),and reputation will keep them signed for as long as they choose to be signed. If we do not get another record it will be because the Stones have no desire to release one. The label certainly would never discourage the Stones from doing so though.


By the way I already own the new disk. No,I did not buy it. I got it from my job. I have not bought a "new" Stones release since Dirty Work. It's a small little perk from my job. I still did buy all the Remasters from a few years ago though,and the Singles box sets. I have dumped my fair share into the Stones' coffers that's for damned sure! Not to mention thousands on the tickets over the years!


Riffhard
September 28th, 2005 01:35 AM
JumpinJackFlash I think the sales are good. Only true Stones fans would, and are buying this album. It goes to show there are enough true Stones fans to make them #1. I personally couldn't stand some snot faced kid who listens to 50 cent, or Britney Spears, acting like a fan anyway. Mick said it i9n the Rolling Stone article, they are going on tour, they need to put an album out, and instead of a repackage, they put out a new album. Now, that new album wasn't marketed to snot faced kids, like other artists. Compare album sales, merchandising, and concert profits, then consecutive albums, there truely is no comparison. Today's chart topper whoever it is is here today, and gone tommorrow, the Stones are forever baby.
September 28th, 2005 01:41 AM
2000monkey [quote]Riffhard wrote:


>>I'm afraid that the Stones will never be able to replicate Bob's brilliant comeback. Keith does not seem to be in any kind of a hurry to prove himself as a songwriter again. Jagger is too preoccupied by loads of other distractions to give it his all. I'd like to think together they could put out another masterpeice,but I'm afraid they just don't have the old "fire in their belly" anymore. Not that I'm knocking A Bigger Bqang,mind you. I like the album alot,but it is a far cry from the sheer brilliance of TOOM and LaT.<<

Time Out of Mind and Love and Theft are great but LAT is much overrated. it sounds very good but which of the songs are actually on par with Dylan's best? None of them. In A Bigger Bang, the Stones HAVE come up with an album comparable to LAT. Both are very enjoyable and expertly crafted albums made up of mostly minor songs. In some ways ABB beats LAT. The Stones don't have Dylan's lyrical imagination (Who does?)but the players on LAT can't compare with the Stones as an ensemble. They were GOOD, not great.
September 28th, 2005 04:26 AM
egon i think mick is crying himself to sleep every night.
September 28th, 2005 07:26 AM
Gazza
quote:
2000monkey wrote:
Time Out of Mind and Love and Theft are great but LAT is much overrated. it sounds very good but which of the songs are actually on par with Dylan's best? None of them. In A Bigger Bang, the Stones HAVE come up with an album comparable to LAT. Both are very enjoyable and expertly crafted albums made up of mostly minor songs. In some ways ABB beats LAT. The Stones don't have Dylan's lyrical imagination (Who does?)but the players on LAT can't compare with the Stones as an ensemble. They were GOOD, not great.



I'd quite happily put "Floater", "Sugar Baby" and "High Water" on a par with Dylan's best work. Not THE absolute best (ie, "Visions of Johanna") but certainly up there.

I think TOOM's best songs are better than the best thats on L&T however (namely 'Not Dark Yet' and "Trying to get to heaven") but I think L&T is a more consistent record overall

"Both ..(ABB & L&T)..are very enjoyable and expertly crafted albums made up of mostly minor songs" - thats not a bad analogy
September 28th, 2005 08:48 AM
Angus1 Well ABB is a fine album and perhaps some future publication will choose several of it's songs as 'highlights from the later era Stones'.

Mind you at this particular stage in their career - and while they are still young and able enough (yes indeed!). After the tour they should start to seriously look at their recorded legacy - we all know there is some fine studio stuff unreleased that could be given a little extra polish if required. Of course we've gone on about this before, but I think it would be foolish if they (now in their mid-sixties) didn't at least consider it.




September 28th, 2005 09:07 AM
corgi37 Absolutely 100% bet anyone they never, ever make another cd. This is it folks. The next (if any label wants them) would be made of rarities and cast offs.

Dont kid yourselves either. Their back catalogue doesnt sell well at all. Radio airplay of songs, and advertising usage, pays for them songs.

I dont think Between the Buttons or Emotional Rescue moved to many units this year.
[Edited by corgi37]
September 28th, 2005 11:31 AM
jb
quote:
corgi37 wrote:
Absolutely 100% bet anyone they never, ever make another cd. This is it folks. The next (if any label wants them) would be made of rarities and cast offs.

Dont kid yourselves either. Their back catalogue doesnt sell well at all. Radio airplay of songs, and advertising usage, pays for them songs.

I dont think Between the Buttons or Emotional Rescue moved to many units this year.
[Edited by corgi37]


You are 100% c0rrect as far as this being last studio album..8 yrs and a avergae album at best. Mick uses the Stones to make $$$ and has lost he song writing abilities and Keith has not contributed a thing since 94.....the album, quite frankly, is disappointing ....By now, if they had any hidden gems in the vault , they surely would have released them....but Mick and Keith refuse to use any Taylor era songs and frshen them up as they reject the past.
September 28th, 2005 12:03 PM
Saint Sway I'm sure they'll put out the obligatory live cd after the tour with Satisfaction and a bunch of others on it

yippee
September 28th, 2005 01:08 PM
Sir Stonesalot Of course they will release a live ABB Tour cd...probably a DVD too. And I'll buy all of it.

But it still does not change the fact that the Stones, regardless of sales, look at making new albums as a means to an end...a big tour and the half billion that goes with it.

The tour is the big score, the album is just product. And it sounds like it too.
September 28th, 2005 01:11 PM
jb
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Of course they will release a live ABB Tour cd...probably a DVD too. And I'll buy all of it.

But it still does not change the fact that the Stones, regardless of sales, look at making new albums as a means to an end...a big tour and the half billion that goes with it.

The tour is the big score, the album is just product. And it sounds like it too.


I must agree with you....started with SW's and ever since(Let's not over-rate VL).
September 28th, 2005 01:23 PM
Dan
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Dan,you are completely missing the point here. You stated,"their label will drop them and they wont get to record another album..." My point is that their label would never dream of droping them. Elvis has been dead since 1977,but I guarantee that he will never be dropped from his label. Same is true with the Stones. Their sheer body of work (ie-money making library),and reputation will keep them signed for as long as they choose to be signed. If we do not get another record it will be because the Stones have no desire to release one. The label certainly would never discourage the Stones from doing so though.

Riffhard



I don't think you understand the music business at all. JB is right. They are one step away from the corndog circuit, if not total obscurity. All real Stones fans must buy at least 3 copies of A Bigger Bang to spare us the total humiliation of a flop album and getting dropped by the record label.
September 28th, 2005 01:30 PM
jb
quote:
Dan wrote:


I don't think you understand the music business at all. JB is right. They are one step away from the corndog circuit, if not total obscurity. All real Stones fans must buy at least 3 copies of A Bigger Bang to spare us the total humiliation of a flop album and getting dropped by the record label.


Keith always say's this is a new thing, lets see how far it can go as far as their longevity.....I believe people will always show up..not 80k like the old days, but always around 12-15k. However, as far as creativity, honestly people, have you really been impressed with anything post Tatoo You...something that you could listen to a friend with a say, "man , the Stones still rock"???
September 28th, 2005 01:44 PM
Egbert
quote:
jb wrote:

Keith always say's this is a new thing, lets see how far it can go as far as their longevity.....I believe people will always show up..not 80k like the old days, but always around 12-15k. However, as far as creativity, honestly people, have you really been impressed with anything post Tatoo You...something that you could listen to a friend with a say, "man , the Stones still rock"???



I would put their last 3 studio releases on par with some pre-Tattoo You efforts such as IOR&R and Black & Blue.
September 28th, 2005 01:46 PM
jb
quote:
Egbert wrote:


I would put their last 3 studio releases on par with some pre-Tattoo You efforts such as IOR&R and Black & Blue.


Really......that's a bit of a strech imo...
September 28th, 2005 01:54 PM
time is on my side
quote:
Dan wrote:


I don't think you understand the music business at all. JB is right. They are one step away from the corndog circuit, if not total obscurity. All real Stones fans must buy at least 3 copies of A Bigger Bang to spare us the total humiliation of a flop album and getting dropped by the record label.



Since no one answered this post. I will ask it again here.

Why would any label want to drop an act that is number one in the world for two consecutive weeks??? Why would any record company consider dropping an act (any act) that is already in platinum status (more than a million sold) after only a few weeks on the charts??? During a given year, how many acts do you think have the possibility of achieving that??

The great James Blunt never made it to number one in the world charts. Do you think his record label his unhappy with his record sales??? Do you think they want to drop him because of poor sales??

From what I can gather, the STONES are doing great in selling albums, CD's around the globe. In the few countries that keep getting mentioned around here as the only ones that matter, namely the U.S. and Great Britian, they still wound up as high as three and two respectively. There only seems to be a few countries where the STONES are not doing great but they are the only ones anyone wants to talk about.

For an act that is over 40 years old and given the ever changing marketplace, the reality is the STONES are on their way to 3 million plus in worldwide sales. I, for one, think congratulations are in order- please cancel the funeral. The STONES are on a worldwide tour and the world has definitely spoken. The world likes the new album from the STONES- it seems to be a big hit worldwide.





[Edited by time is on my side]
September 28th, 2005 02:04 PM
jb They won't be dropped..the name alone is very prestigious..butr they are certainly not kept for record sales. In fact, didn;t AIM drop Bowie, Jagger a few yrs back?
September 28th, 2005 02:15 PM
time is on my side
quote:
jb wrote:
They won't be dropped..the name alone is very prestigious..butr they are certainly not kept for record sales. In fact, didn;t AIM drop Bowie, Jagger a few yrs back?



These are the acts the STONES outsold last week and by a huge margins: Kayne West, James Blunt, Paul McCartney, Coldplay, Black Eyed Peas, Green Day, Paul Wall, Mariah Carey, 50 cent, and Kelly Clarkson.

If any artist can spend two weeks outselling all of these artist, known to be big sellers in the year 2005 and outselling them by HUGE margins, why wouldn't that artist be kept because of record sales????
September 28th, 2005 02:16 PM
texile when i think of dylan's not dark yet - i get chills....its as powerful and haunting as shelter from the storm or isis -
i don't know what jagger would need to be inspired to write something like that at this point.....
dylan does it.....i think riff is right...the urgency is not there anymore.
September 28th, 2005 02:16 PM
jb Kayne west has sold 1.5 million albums in the US alone!!!! The Stones have not hit that figure worldwide!!!
September 28th, 2005 02:16 PM
texile when i think of dylan's not dark yet - i get chills....its as powerful and haunting as shelter from the storm or isis -
i don't know what jagger would need to be inspired to write something like that at this point.....
dylan does it.....i think riff is right...the urgency is not there anymore.
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