ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board


Roseland, NYC, September 30, 2002.
Louis Lanzano

WEBRADIO CHANNELS:
[Ch1: Bill German's Stones Zone] [Ch2: British Invasion] [Ch3: Sike-ay-delic 60's] [Ch4: Random Sike-ay-delia]


[THE WET PAGE] [IORR NEWS] [IORR TOUR SCHEDULE] [SETLISTS 62-99] [THE A/V ROOM] [THE ART GALLERY] [MICK JAGGER] [KEITHFUCIUS] [CHARLIE WATTS ] [RON WOOD] [BRIAN JONES] [MICK TAYLOR] [BILL WYMAN] [IAN STEWART ] [NICKY HOPKINS] [MERRY CLAYTON] [IAN 'MAC' McLAGAN] [BERNARD FOWLER] [LISA FISCHER] [DARRYL JONES] [BOBBY KEYS] [JAMES PHELGE] [CHUCK LEAVELL] [LINKS] [PHOTOS] [MAGAZINE COVERS] [MUSIC COVERS ] [JIMI HENDRIX] [BOOTLEGS] [TEMPLE] [GUESTBOOK] [ADMIN]

[CHAT ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [RESTROOMS]

NEW: SEARCH ZONE:
Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist an start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED) inside.
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:

PicoSearch

ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: Mojo Salutes Rocks Off Return to archive Page: 1 2 3 4 5
09-22-02 02:45 AM
gypsymofo60 Moonie, It's good to see people supporting the less fashionable clubs like Telstar, Isupport Sutton United in the English lower divisions, this is where the Stones used to play every second Friday night during 1963, Stu lived there,(so I'm told!)Yeah! Emmo's from OZ, he looked to be on his way to Liverpool until Feyenoord stepped in for him. And I see Jari Litmanen is back at Ajax, Liverpool waste talent!
09-22-02 06:15 AM
Nasty Habits Dandelion* wrote:

"Mary Manning was incredible. She had a schizophrenic sort of poetry about her and she used to piss everyone off. RELENTLESSLY. Except FPM and I were great fans. She even started an online porn "career."


I cannot believe the people remember this shit!
More Mary Manning stories, please!

"The only other music community I've checked out was the Elton John one after one of their spammers sort of intermingled and posted links on SW. Crazy Water or something like that. Even weirder than the Stones thing - if that's possible. Just picture it...makes a few places in the Stones community seem pretty well balanced by comparison. "


I actually can imagine, and I shudder at the thought. Maybe the secret lies in doing a book about fan message boards in general with an egocentric focus on the Stones message boards as the peak of the "art".
But the idea of slogging through a bunch of posts about an artist like Elton, or heavens, the kind of babble that goes on at an American Idol board or lower (although how can you go lower than that?) makes me shudder, perhaps proving the point about there being no market.

"Some of us are quite happy play slumming and having a ball without any real guilt by association. The boards can be a backstreet girl but if you want us to bring her out to the country club...um...don't think so...

No, you probably are right. It's the personas created intentionally or not that are where the action is. Zeroing in on the office or homelife where the stuff is created would inevitably render it mundane. Slumming, though? Are you really? I mean you're up too late too excited to sleep because you're going to the Tower theater tomorrow (today), just like me, probably tatting away with a blue bracelet on your wrist. But yeah, it is a kind of closeted enterprise. Just because I think that Rocks Odd is amazing I don't run around telling all my non-Stones friends about the amazing Rolling Stones message board I've found.

"I think the idea of archiving by a good objective editor is the way to go if that's the case. Too much sludge to get anyone except the junkies involved."

You'd need somebody who was a little bit of a freak as well, I think, for peak flavor. It's not all about "unintentional art": the fan's eye view of the way the music of the Rolling Stones sounds/works/is is of, to me, equal importance and interest, at its best anyway. Actually I like it more, and will tire of some of the reindeer games that go on when people aren't talking about the band.


"I've always thought a certain art is stumbled upon. Never would have expected it. This guy calling himself the doctor came on and stated flaming these funny named posters and at that time I thought it hilarious that people would get so bent out of shape about their silly little annonymous characters getting flamed. That they took it so personally. "

I am consistently amazed with how quickly defensive people get when someone disagrees, with the strange little etiquettes and taboos and language couches one has to engage in without pissing people off. You're supposed to couch everything with little retreats like IMHO and "everyone's opinion is right" and all that tolerant happy crappy. Which leads me to think that the "personas" are more than just larks, but are fundamental parts of a poster's being. As are finely held opinions about the depths of the Black and Blue album and who's the best Stoneswoman.

" People slip into narrative easier than you think. "

Witness the ~AzQb, Martha My Dear, Dandelion* triage earlier in this thread.

"Ah - you see... you need to be eggheady AND piss people off. Just watch me..."

Thank you Patti Smith!
09-22-02 09:13 AM
Sir Stonesalot I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't you need to get permission from all the people who's posts you republish? Do you think the crazier people would do it for free? Probably. It would end up being like a badge of honor. "Hey look everyone! I got published! I'm so cool!".

Not saying that you'd actually want to print any of my tripe...but I wouldn't let you reprint it for free. Then again, I'm not actually crazy either.
09-22-02 10:03 AM
Dandelion*
Moo Cow Goatman - I shall answer your thoughts after I get back since right now all I have time to say is that Michel Foucault woulda liked B2B...and it is rather ironic that Stones management had a hand in killing their Frankenstein monster...yet it lives on......

Nasty - will get back to this as well. Perhaps we'll run into each other at Tower. Did you meet Fleabit at the Vet? He mentioned meeting some people but I forgot who. You weren't the guy on shrooms were you?

Have a great time at the show if I don't see you!
09-22-02 10:33 AM
Maxlugar If a book can be published entirely of some husbands emails to friends and relatives about his wifes health status after she was burned at the WTC on 9/11, then I guess a book about ANYTHING can be published.

Fuck Yup!

M.L.
09-22-02 10:42 AM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
If a book can be published entirely of some husbands emails to friends and relatives about his wifes health status after she was burned at the WTC on 9/11, then I guess a book about ANYTHING can be published.

Fuck Yup!

M.L.



Whoot!

This book must be written.

Someone mentioned earlier about comparisons between us here and us in real life - wouldn't that be interesting - all in relation to the Stones and just the many types of people that they magnatize into their little web. I think the youngest poster here is 15 - and I know we have a few who've been with us since the beginning - who's the oldest here? The Stones attract all ages, all walks of life. It'd be quite an ambitious project.

I'd do it - if I ever got enough time outta school!

-tSYX --- Oh, seven days! Seven days, she'll be comin', I'll be waitin' at the station...
09-22-02 12:00 PM
Nasty Habits
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't you need to get permission from all the people who's posts you republish? Do you think the crazier people would do it for free? Probably. It would end up being like a badge of honor. "Hey look everyone! I got published! I'm so cool!".

Not saying that you'd actually want to print any of my tripe...but I wouldn't let you reprint it for free. Then again, I'm not actually crazy either.




Yeah -- this is one of the most headboggling issues, even if you ain't talkin Foucault and capillaries and modern authaship as defined by the personal webpage or whatever. I think that this thread is a very interesting place to shape/form/define the ideas though. What are the licensing fees on stuff posted on a public forum? Do you "own" the Sir Stones persona? Do you own the words of "Cardinal Ximenez"? Does Max Lugar own his shit and if he does can he sue Joey for personal damages (not to open old scabs, but just f'rinstance). If the direction this "whatever" would take would be primarily an anthology of posts, then permissions would get indescribeably complicated. If it was more of a fan-by-fan profile then I guess it would be permission on individual basis. Regardless, absolutely no one, least of all the author, would make very much money on a project like this, whatever this is.

DANDY: Left Orchestra, Row S, Seat #2 at the Tower. Red Mick Jagger '72 "ALL RIGHT!" T-shirt. Very dark blue jeans. White and red converse. Eyes bugging out of his head. Dancing like an absolute ass.





[Edited by Nasty Habits]
09-22-02 02:17 PM
Maxlugar "Does Max Lugar own his shit and if he does can he sue Joey for personal damages"

Yes and yes.

Developing.......

MAXY!!
09-22-02 02:47 PM
sirmoonie Can I be in this book too? I have some good stuff. Check out my latest: "poopdeck."

How much money will I get for "poopdeck"?
09-22-02 02:49 PM
Moonisup Count me in for the WWW

Weird World of Women

lol

rik
09-23-02 02:18 AM
Nasty Habits Perhaps everyone should start scouring the archives and dredge up some of their favorite bullshit from past posts.

Rocks Off's Greatest Hits!

09-24-02 09:35 PM
Dandelion* Nasty Habits wrote:


I cannot believe the people remember this shit!
More Mary Manning stories, please!"



When I was on AOL they gave us 5 screen names and I used one just to post in the newsgroup every once in a while. Mary was obsessed with some "Glenn" guy who was a singer in a RS tribute band I think or something like that. She kept accusing people of being Glenn...including me. I'd egg her on. Whenever I'd sign onto that screen name no matter what ungodly hour when some greco-roman terra cotta trinket or the like was ending on eBay - she'd IM me and I'd have these LONG bizarro conversations with her. I'd collect them and send them onto FPM. It was some form of unintentional cyber art.

She was far more into the "tribute" bands than the actual Stones. Pretty interesting.......funny story sorta related. FPM has this friend who's a Steve Ray Vaughn impersonator. Got more work that way. Actually has a pretty good career going. One time John Waters showed up to a gig and told him how fabulous he was. He didn't get it the way it was meant of course...

snip

"Maybe the secret lies in doing a book about fan message boards in general with an egocentric focus on the Stones message boards as the peak of the "art". "



Too overwhelming. Too overwhelming dealing with just the Stones web as well. Think about all the stuff that has taken place just in the last few months - everything from the Toronto stakeout to middle aged doll ladies forming calling circles buying ROLLING STONES tickets. The ROLLING STONES - you know -- those -- those bad bad guys who doll ladies in an ordered universe should not like one bit...but if they really do I think that is something to look a hell of a lot deeper into...



"But the idea of slogging through a bunch of posts about an artist like Elton, or heavens, the kind of babble that goes on at an American Idol board or lower (although how can you go lower than that?) makes me shudder, perhaps proving the point about there being no market."


Slogging through all of this just now once again...The art and madness have taken a shallow dive. Few in their right mind would want to read a fraction of the drivel posted even if they were a Stones fan. That is why this can either be a long term duration art shaped as much if not more by the observer - or a heavily edited and structured package into another form - but that would ultimately alter the form and the experience of it. Part of the fun is finding the brilliance shining out from the sludge. One can appreciate Steel Driving Hammer far more after purging 150 passive aggressive virtualwanker "Who's on first" UC emails out of their mailbox for the tenth day in a row. You need to first experience that madness in order to filter it out - because it IS part of the whole. The sludge is part of the process and the insanity. The keyhole into the cyberstonesbrainwake. You have to work for it. It's part of the experience. To translate it to a controlled text makes it something it's ultimately not...it'll be a case study determined by the editor.


snip

"I think the idea of archiving by a good objective editor is the way to go if that's the case. Too much sludge to get anyone except the junkies involved."

You'd need somebody who was a little bit of a freak as well, I think, for peak flavor. It's not all about "unintentional art": the fan's eye view of the way the music of the Rolling Stones sounds/works/is is of, to me, equal importance and interest, at its best anyway. Actually I like it more, and will tire of some of the reindeer games that go on when people aren't talking about the band.



You are right - needs to be a balance of both. But - how many people want to read poorly written odes to a rock group of the particular songs from last evenings setlist? You know as well as I that a well written fan concert review is a rare thing since you know how to write one...how does one transcribe many experiences into a form that someone with a passing interest would find interesting? People want a good story and a coherent read. I can't help it - the One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest atmosphere in this web is what's compelling to me as a fan of the Stones to keep the interest, and as an observer of human nature - to go into the marketplace to see the human condition in this new age of strange strange communications...


snip


"Which leads me to think that the "personas" are more than just larks, but are fundamental parts of a poster's being. As are finely held opinions about the depths of the Black and Blue album and who's the best Stoneswoman."



Ah....this one is going to take more time than I have tonight.

Interesting having this conversation here. Weird, isn't it? Any ripples seen throughout the panopticon from your viewpoint?

Glad to hear things worked out for you getting into the Tower show. Pretty good work...
09-24-02 11:38 PM
MarthaMyDear If you pay me $1,000,000.00, you have my permission to print what I've written, etc., but other than that... No... lol......................... lol.....................
09-24-02 11:44 PM
MarthaMyDear And, look at Mick's face when I say that!!! lol............................ :P lol.................... If I went-out to eat tonight, I would have tipped the waitress a damn penny... lol............................ Don't ask what that means... lol................ Nevermind... lol.................... HE!!! HE!!! lol....................
09-25-02 12:39 AM
Stonesdoug Congratulations to the Unholy Trinity. You do an incredible job here and deserve the kudos.
Sorry I didn't post this sooner but I've been away seeing some band.
09-25-02 01:15 AM
MarthaMyDear Some shitty band, right??? lol.................... :P HE!!! HE!!! just kidding, Doug... I hope you enjoyed the shows (of course I have to add an "s" after "show"... lol................. :P ... ROCK ON!!!
09-25-02 01:16 AM
MarthaMyDear A BIG "S"... As in MANY... DARN YOU!!! lol.................... :P
09-25-02 09:52 AM
Dandelion*
quote:
MarthaMyDear wrote:
If you pay me $1,000,000.00, you have my permission to print what I've written, etc., but other than that... No... lol......................... lol.....................



Well Martha - what if someone rewrote your posts - say adding a smiley face or two there and dropping one there...and called themselves MartaMyQueer? If this was published and you were not paid royalties - could you sue? Would you have a chance winning?

I don't know about the legalities of lifting actual posts - perhaps the all you need is the webmaster's permission. I think they may be the ones to own the content. In the case of this board I think it's one of those free ones so novogate.com may own the rights. Probably easy to find out.

Another thought - do you remember the book by David Dalton titled "the First Twenty Years" or something like that which came out in 1980 I think? It's sort of a crazy quilt of snippets about the band - a format that may fit a best of internet chatter rather well...

Another thing to look into - if you are at all serious about doing a fan's perspective about the tour you need to be saving stuff now. Particularly at Keno's board since he archives only a small amount. I would not wait on publisher interest creating such a thing. If they see a sample of what it could be it may be an easier sell...

Somewhat related article I just read this morning:

http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2002/09/25/dvd_commentary/index.html
09-25-02 03:07 PM
Nasty Habits


"Interesting having this conversation here. Weird, isn't it? Any ripples seen throughout the panopticon from your viewpoint?"

You mean as per this conversation? Aside from a little good natured territoriality I think that most people could probably give a shit. Some people think it's a good idea, and would quite willingly go to bat for it and really help the author/compiler/editor/suggestionary out, others would use it for an opportunity to bluster and be rude and exclusionary, and still others would call said scribe an utter fool for even making the attempt. I think that only an idiot or a lunatic would think that an author interested in this website and its merry maniacs would be trying to exploit them, rather than celebrate their joyous hilarity and enthusiasms, esp. if said "author" was obviously an inmate as well.

The Dalton book is a great one, and is perhaps a good model now that my original plan is fading down the railway line....
I would love to have gone out there and done a book on the road during the Stones tour....and last week in Philly convinced me that it would have been worthwhile - not only from the perspective of the characters involved - meeting the Toronto nexus alone was worth several thousand words, but from my own perspective - the writing was coming fast and hot.

Really the original point of the book was to get some publisher to give me a bunch of money and press passes so that I could go to as many Rolling Stones shows as possible as cheaply as I could, meet a bunch of great internet fans, and talk about the band as an extrinsic phenom rather than an intrinsic one. That was the sheer, cynical motivation behind it.

The Rolling Stones are such an all encompassing idea by this point that means so many different things to so many different people, even within fan circles let alone outside them, that the idea of the band belongs almost more to the people than it does to the band. When you see some deranged, enraged woman standing outside of the theater after the Tower performance SCREAMING, I mean SCREAMING because she was so upset that they started playing their "BULLSHIT", meaning lousy, boring rock and roll songs like "Brown Sugar" and "Start Me Up", railing about the covers, just PISSED OFF to the point where she said she actually LEFT, because she was so "betrayed" by the boys, you realize how deeply this fan psychosis and obsession with getting what they deserve can run. Of course, she had to add, "Don't get me wrong, it was great and I still love them" in order to keep the internal firewall up, but she was bound and certain in her knowledge that "That show shoulda neva been played at the Towa!" Me, I'm on another planet trying to get over the fact that I never had as much fun in my life.

I saw guys at the shows who were so hard core that they would actually cross their arms whenever a "Hot Rock" would come up and would only cheer for the rarities or the new tunes. I had a guy tell me that he finally understood why people liked being on the b-stage because they played "Let It Bleed", which was the only tune in the setlist he'd wanted to hear all night, presumably because they'd played everything else on the tour so far. I think this "song collector" in-concert mentality is apeshit and weird - why put such terrible restrictions on your experience? The type of fan who can't bear to miss a concert but hates what is played, and the increasing distance between the "serious" Stones fan and the "casual" same is the biggest shift I see in the panopticon.

That and the fact that the word "panopticon" is being use a lot more than normal around here.




09-25-02 09:52 PM
Dandelion*

"The Rolling Stones are such an all encompassing idea by this point that means so many different things to so many different people, even within fan circles let alone outside them, that the idea of the band belongs almost more to the people than it does to the band."

It's out of their control, isn't it? Their reality and all the ideas of them. From bad old geezer jokes by the disinterested to The Brian Jones Death Cult.



" When you see some deranged, enraged woman standing outside of the theater after the Tower performance SCREAMING, I mean SCREAMING because she was so upset that they started playing their "BULLSHIT", meaning lousy, boring rock and roll songs like "Brown Sugar" and "Start Me Up", railing about the covers, just PISSED OFF to the point where she said she actually LEFT, because she was so "betrayed" by the boys, you realize how deeply this fan psychosis and obsession with getting what they deserve can run. Of course, she had to add, "Don't get me wrong, it was great and I still love them" in order to keep the internal firewall up, but she was bound and certain in her knowledge that "That show shoulda neva been played at the Towa!" Me, I'm on another planet trying to get over the fact that I never had as much fun in my life. "


Wow - I read that sort of stuff on the uberfan sites but would never have figured one of them would have stormed out of the show yelling about it! That shit just floors me. I can see a parallel between this obsession with CONTROLLING this band in some delusional fan deservednes sort of way like the way sports fanatics go on and on...but I think it's a bit more unhinged in the non competitive world of the popular arts. It's not like "well if they sacked that quarterback they may go to the finals" or that sort of war game strategy mental busywork distraction entertainment outlet.

"I saw guys at the shows who were so hard core that they would actually cross their arms whenever a "Hot Rock" would come up and would only cheer for the rarities or the new tunes. I had a guy tell me that he finally understood why people liked being on the b-stage because they played "Let It Bleed", which was the only tune in the setlist he'd wanted to hear all night, presumably because they'd played everything else on the tour so far. I think this "song collector" in-concert mentality is apeshit and weird - why put such terrible restrictions on your experience? The type of fan who can't bear to miss a concert but hates what is played, and the increasing distance between the "serious" Stones fan and the "casual" same is the biggest shift I see in the panopticon."

Funny thing - I didn't even want to have to deal with going to these shows because it's shitty timing in my life, I'm way too busy and distracted, they MADE me join a goddamn FANCLUB to get tickets to Tower (BASTARDS!!! - like I would have been caught dead in a fan club when I was 12 let alone now...) and I was really really hesitant to go to Vets for a number of reasons - but none of it having to do with what I figured the setlist would be. I actually really liked Start Me Up and all that stuff. Each show I've seen they played that song which I can't stand but I like it live because - I don't know - it's them and it's live and I get to see it and a hell of a lot of other people maybe would wish they could but can't. They don't have to be there at all. They don't have to tour. They don't have to record new songs. They play Rolling Stones songs. They are the Rolling Stones. That's what it is...They should play Start Me up over and over as a loop 20 times at Roseland and the Wiltern! Then they will have truly taken back control...!



09-25-02 10:15 PM
Sir Stonesalot >They should play Start Me up over and over as a loop 20 times at Roseland and the Wiltern! Then they will have truly taken back control...!<

You, my dear, are going to have a VERY long ride with me to MSG in the morning. That was not the smartest thing that you could have posted right now.

And you better PRAY that they don't actually DO that. You forget, I know where you live. Do you like snakes?
09-25-02 11:40 PM
FPM C10
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
>
You, my dear, are going to have a VERY long ride with me to MSG in the morning. That was not the smartest thing that you could have posted right now.




HEY! You kids better behave. I'm driving and I don't want to hear "Dandy's LOOKIN' at me!!!" "Am NOT!!" "Are TOO!" "Nuh Uh!" "Yuh huh!" etc!

I'm pretty sure they WON'T do Start Me Up 20 times. I bet they WILL do it once, which is goofy, but whatEVER!

MSG's gonna SMOKE.

09-26-02 01:26 AM
~AzQb

MoNKeY!!!!


I just KNEW you'd be feelin yer oats in time for tomorrow, and i'm sooooooooooooo thrilled ; )

"StonesJones", we used to say...i'll kick it up to "FIeNdInG" at this point !!!

Can't wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaait for the pleasure of meeting you&Dande*&M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

~RoTfL
09-26-02 01:56 AM
~AzQb
quote:
Stonesdoug wrote:
Congratulations to the Unholy Trinity. You do an incredible job here and deserve the kudos.
Sorry I didn't post this sooner but I've been away seeing some band.



Hey StonesDawg,

YOU work fucking hard, mate !!! Don't go thinkin we don't utterly appreciate the set=listsAsTheytCome, cause we DO~!

Bless ya~!

~!A
09-26-02 03:42 AM
~AzQb
That's what it is...They should play Start Me up over and over as a loop 20 times at Roseland and the Wiltern! Then they will have truly taken back control...!




[/quote]

Dande*

I just adore you ; )

~!
Page: 1 2 3 4 5