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Topic: Jagger to appear in "guru" documentary Return to archive Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
09-17-03 05:23 PM
Street Fighting Man Sirmonnie/All,

My apologies if I'm missing replying to every single point, question, etc. There's been a lot of activity on this thread.

Yes, good question regarding man's "free will." Certainly there are no easy answers to explain this biblical truth. I can tell you though it's not the case that a Son automatically believes what his Father does, or vice versa. The Bible tells us that God created man with a "free will" to believe & trust in Him - i.e., we can accept or reject Jesus Christ's gift of salvation through faith in Him we believe and have new life. Acts 16:31 says "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." With that in mind, It's also true that God is all knowing (i.e., omniscient), ever present (omnipresent) and all powerful (i.e., omnipotent) - God knows the beginning from the end. Therefore, God certainly knows those who will come to faith in the end, but as long as we have a "heart beat" we have the opportunity to accept Christ as our Lord & Savior.

Please be assured, if anyone takes issue with what the Bible says (e.g., that all men are sinners by nature, the existence of hell, etc.), they are taking issue with God Word, not me (or any other Christian). I'm simply being faithful to preach the Bible, and I trust in the Holy Spirit to convict hearts. God has created man/woman with a conscious, and it's uncanny how the name of Jesus emits such strong passions & reactions in a way that none other does (e.g., Buda, Mohammad, etc.). It's also funny how Christians (i.e., those who belong to Christ) are often characterized as being close minded, etc., when in actuality the Bible says that the eyes of our spiritual understanding are opened by the Holy Spirit of God which allows us to understand the truth of God's Word. It's Jesus that sets us free from sin & death.

Respectfully,

SFM
09-17-03 05:50 PM
FPM C10 Did God tell you not to answer my questions, or was that your own decision?

09-17-03 05:59 PM
Street Fighting Man Hi FPM

Please help me again with the questions that you'd like me to specifically address - thanks!

Respectfully,

SFM
09-17-03 10:29 PM
FPM C10
quote:
Street Fighting Man wrote:
Hi FPM

Please help me again with the questions that you'd like me to specifically address - thanks!

Respectfully,

SFM



1. Does the Doctrine of Original Sin begin at birth or conception? An extension of this question was: if a person was born without senses and died without the opportunity to see or hear anything and therefore never heard the good news about Jesus, would he be damned to hell? I guess it boils down to: is ignorance of the law an excuse? Are there any exceptions to the Law?

2. Isn't that a bit harsh?

3. How is it possible to wage war AND be a Christian?

I guess those three will do for now. TIA!

skeptically,

fpm
09-17-03 11:45 PM
sirmoonie 1. Where did all the people who died before Jesus showed up go? If its heaven, that doesn't seem fair to the rest of us that have had this deliberately obscure 3 card monty inflicted upon us.

2. Are Christians (real ones) allowed to drink alcohol? I've heard conflicting stories on that one.

3. Why does god watch over America but not other countries vis a vis their battles with America? Is it because there are more Christians here than other countries?

4. Is god for or against capital punishment? I've heard conflicting stories on that one too.

5. If you believe only parts of the bible, are you still a real Christian, or are you going to hell? Seems like most Christians are pretty selective about which parts they chose to believe in.

6. Say you believe, but then develop Alzheimers and can't even remember where your socks are, much less anything as heady as Jesus and all. Is the heavenly inquiry into your state of belief at the point just before you got Alzheimers or when you die? If its when you die, do you still get into heaven, even though you arguably don't believe any more because you can't even find your goodam socks OR your shoes.

7. Say you don't believe because you lived in abusive foster homes with a hellish Christian bent for long periods of time when you were growing up, and then you get murdered at a young age, but IF you had lived to a ripe old age, you would have changed your beliefs like nearly everyone does when they sense their demise. Is the inquiry into your state of mind when you died, or when you would have died if you hadn't of died earlier than when you would have died?

8. Does god really tell George Bush what to do, or is he lying? George Bush I mean. Not god. I assume god has no reason to lie to George Bush.

I'm serious about 1-7. If you happen to know the answer to 8, that would be great too.

Thanks.
09-18-03 06:21 AM
stonedinaustralia fleabit - sirmoonie, you won't believe this but i tell you it's the honest to god (doh!!) truth

anyway, lunch-time today i was walking through the CBD (or downtown as you say) markets/shopping mall area and this bloke was walking towards me - i glanced at him and noticed, almost with disbelief, he was wearing a t-shirt with "eckankar" on it...it had some sort of slogan, written in what i presume was an indian dialect- the language of the hindu/krishna 'robsat lampa ganesh" type of thing and the last word was "eckankar"- i'd never seen that before, or if i had i never realised the significance of it and coming so soon after the topic was raised here - well, as i say it was almost in disbelief that i read it , so much so, and with the two of you immediately spring to mind, i turned and headed in his direction 'til i overtook him and could came back the other way to make sure and sure enough it said "eckankar" - i couldn't believe my luck...

for a crazed moment i was seized with the idea of approaching him and asking him his thoughts on harold kemp or telling him about this thread but it passed and common-sense prevailed - he was a downbeat sort of dude - in his '50s i suppose - he didn't look particularly spiritual -or happy for that matter - in a word unatttractive

the t-shirt was "lo - fi" - and appeared to be home made with iron on lettering - definitely didn't seem to be "official" eckankar merchandise

anyway, it was an amusing co-incidence (or was it?? - cue "twilight zone" theme music) and so thanks to you for helping me make the connection...this is a true story - believe it or not..



09-18-03 07:45 AM
Mother baby Who is Harold Kemp?
09-18-03 08:39 AM
stonedinaustralia see page 5 of this thread or go to:

http://www.eckankar.org/

things will never be the sane (dammit, i mean same)again
09-18-03 09:40 AM
sirmoonie The numbers of Eckankar followers ("the Eck mons" as they like to be called) is growing faster than any other commercially accepted religion, including Mormon, Scientology, People's Temple, and FPM's deal with Ganeesh.

Based upon the spiritual experiences of the 12th century Dutch mystic Meister von Eckhart, although they seldom admit that anymore for some reason, Eckankar is poised to work some serious spirituality upon mankind in the new millenium.

SIA, it is best not to approach an Eckankar in public. They are very sensitive to non-believers and only attempt conversion on their own turf. Learned that the hard way! LOL!
09-18-03 04:02 PM
Street Fighting Man FPM - Sirmonnie/All,

Very good questions, and I'll try my best to attempt to answer them for you based on what the bible says.

FPM:

1. Does the Doctrine of Original Sin begin at birth or conception? An extension of this question was: if a person was born without senses and died without the opportunity to see or hear anything and therefore never heard the good news about Jesus, would he be damned to hell? I guess it boils down to: is ignorance of the law an excuse? Are there any exceptions to the Law?

*** The bible states that we're born with a fleshly (i.e., sinful) nature. Since God creates us from conception, I would understand that to mean that we have a sinful nature in us from the very start. Romans 1:18 - "I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing." Jesus Christ is the only "solution" to allow us to overcome the "stronghold" of sin & death on our lives. Romans 8:1-2 says, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." For a further explanation, please see Romans 8:1-16: http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=Romans+8%3A1-16&x=17&y=4 ***

*** As for how God's grace (i.e., the gift of Jesus Christ death on the cross for our sins) would extend to a "disadvantaged" person, I don't know. With all honesty, there are some things that are mysteries to humankind that will only become fully known when we ascend to heaven after our physical death. I can say, however, that the heart of God is love, justice and mercy - i.e., which God demonstrated by sending his only Son, Jesus, to die on the cross for sinful humans to take the penalty for our sins.***

2. Isn't that a bit harsh?

***Please see second point above ***


3. How is it possible to wage war AND be a Christian?

*** Yes, it's possible. As an example, in Biblical times, the Lord God called Israel to defend itself against invading nations. When Israel was obedient to God he gave them favor, when they weren't they almost always suffered defeat. It's certainly not preferred, as Christianity is first and foremost about sharing the great love of God to this lost world. However, when a Christian is called by the needs of his nation to go to war they called to be obedient to do so. Ephesians 6:5 - "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." Of course, if a Christian is convicted by God that his nation's motivation for the warfare is morally wrong (e.g., Nazi ambitions to selfishly conqueror & rule the world), then he could choose to abstain from battle, and of course suffer the personal consequences.

SIRMOONIE:

1. Where did all the people who died before Jesus showed up go? If its heaven, that doesn't seem fair to the rest of us that have had this deliberately obscure 3 card monty inflicted upon us.

*** People in the period covered by "The Old Testament" times in the bible were subject to "The Law" (i.e., 10 Commandments). Prior to Jesus death on the cross, people where judged by God based on His Law's. It was very common for men to offer sacrifices to God in the form of killing their choicest animals on an alter to please God. In short, righteousness (i.e., being right & holy before God) was based on keeping the Law. In Genesis 15:6 it says, "Abram believed the LORD , and he credited it to him as righteousness." However, many times the wrath of God was exacted upon the Israelite nation because of the unfaithfulness to God. The Jewish people are still in rebellion to God to this very day because they do not accept that Jesus came as the Messiah. When Jesus came, His death freed man from strict judgment based upon the Law, and provided us instead with salvation through His "Grace" (i.e., Jesus gift of salvation by trusting in Him & Him alone to pay the price of our sins). Please see link above to Romans 8:1-16. ***

2. Are Christians (real ones) allowed to drink alcohol? I've heard conflicting stories on that one.

*** Yes, a Christian is "allowed" to drink because we are not under the law, but under God's grace (i.e., we don't have to earn our way to heaven by following certain rules). The bible says that 1 Corinthians 10:23 + 32 - "Everything is permissible"--but not everything is beneficial. So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. Do not cause anyone to stumble." Basically, that means that if by my having a drink of alcohol it causes someone to "stumble" (i.e., question my Christianity) then it is better that I avoid drinking. Please see 1 Corinthians 10:23-32 - http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=1+Corinthians+10%3A23-33&x=16&y=11 ***

*** As for me personally, I haven't had an alcoholic drink in almost 10 years. Not because I feel it is wrong, but first of all because God has changed my desires and I don't crave alcohol. As a Christian, I honestly enjoy life without it. Secondly, especially because I work with youth groups, I wouldn't want alcohol to be a bad testimony to the teenage kids, or anyone else for that matter. I've also seen the effects of how alcohol can destroy lives (i.e., two of my uncles and an aunt come to mind as those who's families were destroyed). ***

*** Quite often "Christians" point to Jesus having drank wine (in fact, he reproduced it and bread for the masses to feed them) to justify their drinking alcohol. While Christians are certainly "free" from the law to make their own decision based on the convictions, Proverbs 20:1 says, "Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise." I think we all know from experience this is very true. In my life, I want to be controlled by the Holy Spirit of God who produces love, joy, hope, and peace - not alcohol. ****


3. Why does god watch over America but not other countries vis a vis their battles with America? Is it because there are more Christians here than other countries?

*** I'm not convinced this is necessarily true. While America has many Christians, we are certainly not what can truly be described as a "Christian Nation." Unfortunately, many people are abusing the inherent freedoms the U.S. Constitution grants us to live immoral (i.e., ungodly lives). If America doesn't repent (i.e., turn from it's sinful ways) then it surely will be judged for it's unfaithfulness just like any other empire of it's time (e.g., Roman Empire, etc.). That being said, there are many faithful Christians who lift America up in prayer. Interestingly though, nowhere in the bible is "The United States Of America" mentioned - i.e., specifically in the Book of Revelations, which speaks of the "End Times" when Christ will return. Net, net - there's no guarantee that America will continue to merit God's favor in military conflicts.

4. Is god for or against capital punishment? I've heard conflicting stories on that one too.

*** Good question, and I'm not sure I have a satisfactory answer for you. I can tell you that God is a righteous God (i.e., Man's sin must be punished, as it can't be allowed into heaven, a perfect place). In America, for example, capital punishment is basically used as a deterrent against heinous crimes. Relative to the number of people committing violent/terrible crimes, I would bet that the number of people who receive capital punishment is small proportionally. Even when capital punishment is used (i.e., the offenders life is taken), does that really fully make up for their crime? Also, when you stop to think about it many horrible offenders (e.g., murders, etc.) seem to escape any type of legal punishment. God did say, "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord," and as a result we can trust that no one who's guilty of sin will remain unpunished. "The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies. " Nahum 1:2.


5. If you believe only parts of the bible, are you still a real Christian, or are you going to hell? Seems like most Christians are pretty selective about which parts they chose to believe in.

T*** The entire Bible is God's inerrant word. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 -"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." It's impossible to believe some parts of the Bible, and not others, as the whole Bible speaks of God's truth and how it all fits together. Deuteronomy 4:2 says "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you." If a person doesn't believe the whole Word of God is true, then it's likely they are not a "true believing" Christian, and as such will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. ***


6. Say you believe, but then develop Alzheimers and can't even remember where your socks are, much less anything as heady as Jesus and all. Is the heavenly inquiry into your state of belief at the point just before you got Alzheimers or when you die? If its when you die, do you still get into heaven, even though you arguably don't believe any more because you can't even find your goodam socks OR your shoes.

*** If you truly invited Christ into your life as your Savior & Lord while you had the capacity, God knows the intentions of your heart. ***


7. Say you don't believe because you lived in abusive foster homes with a hellish Christian bent for long periods of time when you were growing up, and then you get murdered at a young age, but IF you had lived to a ripe old age, you would have changed your beliefs like nearly everyone does when they sense their demise. Is the inquiry into your state of mind when you died, or when you would have died if you hadn't of died earlier than when you would have died?

*** It's unfortunate when people experience difficult childhood's/backgrounds, but the Lord Jesus Christ came so they we can have victory over sin in this lifetime. With that in mind, nothing is impossible for God, and He can spiritually rescue a child in this lifetime (i.e., that Child could invite Jesus into his heart) if it's consistent with God's will. Each person will stand before God on the day of Judgment before God and will be accountable for how their lives. They are judged by the Lord for what they've trusted in for their eternal life when they pass from this life. ***

*** Also, it's really important to understand that none of us are guaranteed tomorrow (i.e., we don't know when we'll die). The Bible says, "Today is the day of God's favor. Today is the day of salvation." Also, the Bible talks about how our hearts get hardened because of unbelief, effectively making it unlikely that they'll ever repent in this life. "They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts." Ephesians 4:18.


8. Does god really tell George Bush what to do, or is he lying? George Bush I mean. Not god. I assume god has no reason to lie to George Bush.

*** As I understand George W. Bush's personal testimony, he is a "Born Again" Christian, and actively prays in his life, including on decisions related to national & international importance. As prayer is one way which God reveals His will for our lives to us, George W. Bush certainly can receive direction (i.e., wisdom) in making decisions. James 5:16 says, "The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
09-18-03 06:27 PM
sirmoonie
quote:
Street Fighting Man wrote:
It's unfortunate when people experience difficult childhood's/backgrounds, but the Lord Jesus Christ came so they we can have victory over sin in this lifetime. With that in mind, nothing is impossible for God, and He can spiritually rescue a child in this lifetime (i.e., that Child could invite Jesus into his heart) if it's consistent with God's will.


Thanks for answering my questions, SFM.

The above is the one I don't understand. Is the burden on the child, or is it god's will that the child be saved?

But thanks again. No one had ever explained that Laws-Grace belief to me before, and like I said, I've been around a LOT of fierce Christians. YIKES!
09-18-03 07:45 PM
FPM C10 Thanks for your patience and grace, SFM. I don't buy any of it, but I do appreciate your poise.

I was troubled by the idea of original sin as a child, and still am - the thought that someone who hasn't even been born yet is doomed to hell "UNLESS you buy our product" will never be acceptable to me. Guilt, fear, blame and recrimination are soul-killing building blocks of control, and they might have had a genuine purpose in the days when they were first cooked up, but they do not today. I truly believe that the mental illness rampant in the United States is caused in part because we are brought up from day one to believe that no matter WHAT we do, we're not good enough, and we are GUILTY whether we did anything or not. SO, says the troubled youth with a gun, what does it matter? I'll just go on a shooting spree and then repent before I off myself. Why try to improve the world we live in, say the two-faced christian politicians, the WORLD is evil and we'll never change THAT.

You are not alone in being a few thousand years off kilter. Your mortal enemies the Catholics, for example, still cling to their ideas about birth control being evil, vestiges from a day when the team with the most players got the most booty. Totally insane in a day and age when there are way too many people, but hey, that's what THEIR god told THEM to believe. It's the same reason that evangelizing is built into your beliefs too. Gotta spread the Good News! Your team expands by converting the Unbelievers, rather than breeding new ones, so that's at least ecological.

Your answers seem to cover as many bases as possible, just like your book. People don't HAVE to follow ANY of the rules from the OLD testament because of what's in the NEW one but you SHOULD because you'll be judged, except that Jesus freed you from all that, so you DON'T have to, but you DO. The WHOLE book must be obeyed because it doesn't contradict itself -- except that the Old and New testaments are completely different. Love thy neighbor in the new, smite him and his livestock in the old. The New came to correct the Old, except they're both right, they're ONE book...

However, as I said, I admire your poise and patience, and thank you for your answers.

Respectfully,

FPM
09-18-03 09:21 PM
icydanger SFM

you say:
*** As for how God's grace (i.e., the gift of Jesus Christ death on the cross for our sins) would extend to a "disadvantaged" person, I don't know


who is advantaged, who is not, this depends on the eye of the observer.
2/3 (or more depending on the criterias)
example:
the disadvantage in a foreign country when not understanding7reading the language.

can truth ever be an absolute reality?
for example, you say:
the catholic's god: "their God

should they talk about your branch and say "their God?

isnt their God and your God the same one? mixed here

interesting SFM, ty, still have yet to read
ty for the meditation





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