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| Joey |
Moonie ..........................
Bill Shakespeare said it best , " Money go forth and all doors open " . ( 1968 )
Jacimbo !
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| sirmoonie |
Shouldn't there be a Constitutional Amendment banning this?
http://news.yahoo.com/?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=6&u=/nm/20030915/od_nm/odd_penis_dc
You hear about more penile desecrations of the flag than burnings, these days.
Discuss. |
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| Joey |
Ever have a " Pierced Hood " ?????? |
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| Street Fighting Man |
Hello All,
Wow, lot's of different topics, questions, etc. covered the last few days on this string. Let me share a couple of key thoughts.
First off, it's true that America's Constitution + Legal system were established upon Christian principles. Today, however, America is considered to be in a post-Christian period. Similar to the trends in Europe (where atheism is increasingly prevalent), America is in spiritual decline. Like every other great "empire," of it's time, America will one day be judged by God for it's non-belief and unfaithfulness. If you're interested, I'd recommend you listen to the following program ("The Christian Roots of America"): http://www.truthsthattransform.org/BroadcastArchives.asp#483
From what I've read, U.S. President, George W. Bush professes to be a "born again" Christian (i.e., he trusts in Jesus Christ alone for his eternal life). He appears to be a man of faith, and has stated that he prays regularly on matters of national importance, etc. The President was correct when he pointed out that all men (and women) are sinners. It's consistent with what's quoted in Romans 3:23 - "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." It's true, all of us at one time or another have gotten angry, told a "white lie," or failed to do what we ought to do (e.g., love our neighbor as yourself, read the bible, etc.). Some of us have done worse things.
When Jesus came to this earth, His death on the cross set Christians free from the bonds of the "Old Testament" laws (e.g., sacrifices, circumcision, etc.). Now it simply the grace of God by which a man/woman may be saved (Ephesians 2:8-9). In other words, you can't "earn" your way to heaven by being good enough (i.e., simply following the laws). However, the "OT" laws still are a standard by which sin can be judged. For believers-in-Christ, we seek to honor and glorify God with our lives by not sinning (e.g., following the Ten Commandments, etc.).
It's always great to see when someone spends time reading the bible. The Bible can't, however, simply be read like any other "historical" text. In order to truly understand God's living word, the Holy Spirit must open up a person's heart to believe and receive the Word (1 Corinthians 2:14). Again, when you read the Bible, pray that God will help you understand. Also, taking individual verses out of context is a common mistake (as was pointed out, the Devil does this). The bible must be examined as a whole (i.e., what is the "heart" of God on this matter).
Respectfully,
SFM |
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| prism |
America's legal system is based on Greek democracy, not Christianity |
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| prism |
Greek democracy was established hundreds of years before the story of Christ. The framers of America's constitution valued Greek rationality. |
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| prism |
In the new book "According to the Rolling Stones" Keith jokingly says that when he's onstage he feels like Zeus. Keith has been reading about how the Biblical God is based mainly on the Greek father of the Gods, Zeus. But Zeus had more sex than the Hebrew God. The Hebrews cleaned it up. |
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| Mother baby |
quote:
prism wrote:
Keith has been reading about how the Biblical God is based mainly on the Greek father of the Gods, Zeus.
It can't be as Hebrew monotheism goes back at least to Egypt, or before and well predates the rise of the Greeks. It has kind of been a parallel track. |
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| throbby |
Street Fighting Man wrote:
>"First off, it's true that America's Constitution + Legal system were established upon Christian principles."
Egads SFM! The above is absolutely false! You never studied, did you?
The claim that America was founded on Christianity is a myth. Many of the Founding Fathers and Revolutionary War leaders were Deists, and upheld a firm seperation of church and state.
"Point for point, the Founding Fathers' argument for liberty was the exact counterpart of the Puritans' argument for dictatorship-but in reverse, moving from the opposite starting point to the opposite conclusion. Man, the Founding Fathers said in essence (with a large assist from Locke and others), is the rational being;no authority, human or otherwise, can demand blind obedience from such a being-not in the realm of thought or, therefore, in the realm of action, either. By his very nature, they said, man must be left free to exercise his reason and then to act accordingly,i.e., by the guidance of his best rational judgement...And because man is basically good, they held, there is no need to leash him;there is nothing to fear in setting free a rational animal. This, in substance, was the American argument for man's inalienable rights. It was the argument that reason demands freedom" Leonard Peikoff from "Religion vs. America"
"no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States" The Constitution, Article 6, Section 3
I would dare say the symbol on the reverse of the dollar bill, the thirteen stepped pyramid with the eye of Ra shining forth above, reflects certain occultic points of view in the minds of the designers. There is much you do not see I'm thinking.
>"Today, however, America is considered to be in a post-Christian period."
I'm sure the above was said by Christians throughout the history of the U.S.
>"From what I've read, U.S. President, George W. Bush professes to be a "born again" Christian (i.e., he trusts in Jesus Christ alone for his eternal life). He appears to be a man of faith, and has stated that he prays regularly on matters of national importance, etc."
Now I'm getting nervous!
Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln must be turning in their graves.
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| Mother baby |
"the separation of church and state" phrase is not in the US Constitution. Like it or not the country WAS founded on Judeo/Christian "principals" but not a religion per se. New England was settled by the Puritans. Most of the first colonists were religious refugees....the "riff raff of europe" as they were called.
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| throbby |
Mother baby wrote:
>"the separation of church and state" phrase is not in the US Constitution.
I know I didn't say it was.
>Like it or not the country WAS founded on Judeo/Christian "principals" but not a religion per se.
Liking it or not doesn't even enter my mind. As far as the "principles", which ones were used for the foundation of the Republic?
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
prism wrote:
America's legal system is based on Greek democracy, not Christianity
Prismie, America's legal system is based upon English common law. I can't even think of a Greek word in common American jurisprudence. Or English. Don't go find one and say "See?" because even if there are hundreds, you are wrong.
Mother Baby, the words "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. Those words are an analysis of the the 1st Amendment - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Those words are broad and clear. There can be no serious debate as to what they mean. NO law. Some law you say? No, none it says. Law o' none.
Mother Baby, Throbby is right. This country was not founded on amorphous, dynamic concepts like "Judeo Christian principals" whatever the hell that means. Its founded on the Constitution and English common law. If it was founded on anything else, we'd all be wandering around wondering what side of the bed some king who declared himself a conduit to god got up on.
SFM, you didn't answer FPM's legit questions.
Free will is overblown. First of all, if God knows everything, including the future, there is no free will. Anyway, to the extent we have it, it sure isn't much. We are all shaped by our genes right of the bat, and then all the events that happen to and around us by the age of five, pretty much program you for life. SFM, I am incapable of thinking like you. I simply cannot do it. I would need a lobotomy to become that numb to reality. I cannot exercise free will and think like you. Its impossible. If I'm going to hell, I was going that way from day one.
I don't think all your talk of fire and brimstone and the gnashing of penguin teeth is a warning to the rest of us, as you say. I've been around thronging HORDES of pedantic Christians and I think its their way of galvanizing the flock when their beliefs are attacked. Which is weird, because one thing I've noticed about uber-Christians is they LOVE feeling like EVERYONE is out to get them. Engaging in the perpetual victimhood fronted with the perpetual smary sneer is the game. Its no coincidence that the same people who are attracted to that way of thought/life, are also followers of Rush Limbaugh, etc.
Thats all.
"I got game, Ronald!" |
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| Mother baby |
Well, for example, once "usury" was frowned upon. Anything like that that victimized the weak or the innocent... Forgiveness...which is a "Christian" concept... forgiving loans that can never be repaid due to criminal interest rates. The Greek philosophy could never have come up with that one. |
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| Mother baby |
That's what I hate about trying to argue this stuff in the past; always having to adjust the binoculars. |
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| prism |
I read that Zeus was based on the Persian Zoroastrian god who was based on the Hindu Dyaus-Pitar, who inspired the Greek Jupiter. The Egyptian Osiris also played a role. There was much exchanging of ideas around 2000 BC. |
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| prism |
Mick Jagger's Goddess In the Doorway mixes Greek mythology with Hindu awareness, doesn't it? He said in interviews that it focuses on the mystical flash of enlightenment. |
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| prism |
Thomas Jefferson in an 1824 letter said he was angry that some judges based rulings on their belief that Christianity is part of the common law: "The common law existed while the Anglo-Saxons were pagans, at a time when they had never yet heard the name of Christ." |
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| icydanger |
Hi all
"snakes in the grass say they know not God"
Not everybody is in the same boa t...
The Mayflower was filled with English puritans, but I doubt all the first colons had religious convictions or ambitions. But then I dont know much about history of America.
Mesopotamia “ edited the first laws (Hammourabi) the oldest code ever found 1800 Bc about.
Those texts relate to different situations, “what to do if…. And have no religious connotation.
Gods and goddesses in ancient Egypt were different from one area to the next, it depended a lot on the context, for example a place with lots of crocodiles would praise the crocodile god sobek. Three Gods predominated all over, Isis, Osiris, and Horus, recuperated later by the Greeks.
The first official monotheist was Moses,(around 1300BC ( even though a pharaoh “officially dated before Moses was monotheist. (Amenophis lV or Akhenaton= useful to the energy) when the Arch of Alliance was built. Jews lived in Egypt, as mercenaries, business men and were not disturbed until about 500 BC around that time they started assembling their books of wisdom or laws or religion whatever .
Coptics came before the Christians, and their symbol was already the cross, they also use angels in many of their paintings.
Religions influenced each other, syncretism, worshipping so and so according to their needs.
Depending on the "fonction of God, (sorry if I offend any of you) God was named differently, whether he appeared judge, forgiver, etc… this ever since the eldest “books part of the Bible. (the Torah, 5 first books)
sacrifice of blood is strictly ruled.... (whereas Mayas, I shiver)
The Hebrews, Palestinians, : Canaaeans, (tribes of the sons of Jacob) known as Hapirw’s or Shemaws were the first to base their laws on God’s speech through one or the others prophets.
All this seems such a mix-up., why do people fight so much for what is supposed to be good principles?????
The greeks, did not mix religion with law, and they adapted their gods to the area also
Mixing religions with politics is imao one of the reasons why we have problems finding Unity.
The tower of Babel is a representation of humans not being able to read each others langage nor to understand each other,,,,lack oof tolerance I guess....
will we ever learn from our experiences????????
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| prism |
In an interview Keith joked that God might be a woman. There's a book called When God Was A Woman. The Hebrew God might be partly based on the Mesopotamian Goddess Aruru in the Epic of Gilgamesh written 5000 years ago on clay tablets. (Amazon has it.) The goddess Aruru made man from clay. Maybe that's where the Hebrews got the idea. |
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| FPM C10 |
Ron Wood sez: Go Go Ganesh! Once again, proof that the Stones read Rocks Off!
I myself have a fridge with Sri Harold Klemp's mighty countenance painted on it. It's cool - I have it fixed so ice cubes come out his ear!
[Edited by FPM C10] |
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| Joey |
Fleabit ..............................
I heard that you bought " Simon and Garfunkel " tickets .
I hear things ............................
Some things ..............................
Shiver ...................................
Developing ...............................
Skee ! |
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| glencar |
This thread is still around? Preachers on all sides! Even the non-believers got to push their product. |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
Joey wrote:
Fleabit ..............................
I heard that you bought " Simon and Garfunkel " tickets .
I hear things ............................
Some things ..............................
Shiver ...................................
Developing ...............................
Skee !
No, Joesy, I haven't, but I don't skew to the side that views this as a mortal sin. S&G did a OT of stuff I like easily as much as, oh, say, Steely Dan. Like Steely Dan, they are Jewish, and named after a dildo in a William Burroughs novel.
I think "Bookends" is a GREAT album, and would love to hear "At The Zoo" or "Hazy Shade of Winter". "The Boxer" is a monumental song.
However, that line "I've got my books and my poetry to protect me" makes me want to give Paul a wedgie and cram him in his locker after Lit class.
And "Bridge Over Troubled Water" makes me want to break something. I don't even like Johnny Cash's version of it. |
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| jb |
Elvis' version of "Bridge over troubled water" is truly awe inspiring....likewise, his version of "Dixie" always makes me cry. |
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| glencar |
I too like "Dixie"! What the hell's going on? |
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| Joey |
" Like Steely Dan, they are Jewish, and named after a dildo in a William Burroughs novel. "
You make Joey sniggle !
All great bands are named after a Dildo .
" The Boxer" is a monumental song. "
WTF ?!?!?!
WHY ?!?!?!
" However, that line "I've got my books and my poetry to protect me" makes me want to give Paul a wedgie and cram him in his locker after Lit class. "
***** Joey cupping his hand over his mouth and quietly giggling to himself *****************
" And "Bridge Over Troubled Water" makes me want to break something. I don't even like Johnny Cash's version of it. "
You ought to hear Roger Daltrey's version of it !
M. Jackyfly ! |
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| glencar |
That sassy lil boy on FOX's Star Search show did an Elvisfied version of "Bridge" and it was very homoerotic. |
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| throbby |
glencar wrote:
This thread is still around? Preachers on all sides! Even the non-believers got to push their product.
Well, step up to the pulpit dear brother and let your wisdom shine forth.
In your view who are the non-believers and what exactly don't they believe in? |
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| glencar |
I'd rather talk about the different versions of "Bridge." You guys have recycled the same boring cant (both sides) over & over.
Good Lord, Donnie Iris is on VH1 Classic. And it's Twofer Tuesday. I bet "Alleeah"(sp) comes up next! |
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| glencar |
Holy Crap! I was wrong! They did "Merrilee" and now it's "Love Is Like A Rock." I'm awestruck. |
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