| 19th September 2006 06:46 PM |
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| RollingstonesUSA |
I predict John Edwards will be the front runner in 08'.... |
| 19th September 2006 06:47 PM |
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| Dick Bush |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
anyone here ever wonder why Bush hasnt gone after Bin Laden?
They are much alike in almoust all things, my dear man. They seem to share the great talent to stir the shit whatever they touch. They simply perfectly match.
[Edited by Dick Bush] |
| 19th September 2006 06:47 PM |
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| Some Guy |
Jimmiy Carter was also a lame Governor. |
| 19th September 2006 06:51 PM |
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| monkey_man |
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| 19th September 2006 06:51 PM |
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| Saint Sway |
I bet Carter burned one with Dicky Betts |
| 19th September 2006 06:57 PM |
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| monkey_man |
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| 19th September 2006 08:13 PM |
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| Jimmy_Carter |
I apologize to all that I am the indirect cause of this awful thread. The only thing worse would be to be locked in a closet with 300 Hell's Angels, NBTP, and a ravenous siberian tiger. |
| 19th September 2006 08:26 PM |
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| mojoman |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
I bet Carter burned one with Dicky Betts
willie nelson fer sure!!! |
| 19th September 2006 08:29 PM |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
RollingstonesUSA wrote:
I predict John Edwards will be the front runner in 08'....
I liked his tv show. Also that James Van Pragh guy.
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| 19th September 2006 08:33 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
I bet Carter burned one with Dicky Betts
Carter never got high, he was too Christian to have fun.
Seriously, why don't we let Iraq divide up into a bunch of parts? Seems like thats what these whackos wants anyway. All we care is that each part has a strong, pro-American government and the means to generate oil. If it would satisfy these Islamic nutcases, we wouldn't have to sit there spending billions ($$$$$$$$$) a day babysitting the place. We could keep reasonable, low-key, but high-tech bases in each one, and then spend the taxpayer green on real threats like Iran.
Iraq will never be a democracy - that's some mincy, pipe dream, koombaya, I'm OK-You're Ok, utopian fantasy that the Bush Geeks dreamed up. Who fucking cares about their demented world view where Hezzbollics actually prance around throwing flowers in the air? Its time to look at the bottom line - face fucking reality. Iran is building nuclear bombs - Iraq build IEDs - in a world of finite resources, where do you want to spend your hard-earned dollars? (Hint: don't ask George Walker Bush III - his dad was too busy to teach the retard what a dollar was). |
| 19th September 2006 08:46 PM |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Jimmy_Carter wrote:
I apologize to all that I am the indirect cause of this awful thread. The only thing worse would be to be locked in a closet with 300 Hell's Angels, NBTP, and a ravenous siberian tiger.
A 16-year-old kid in my neighborhood got a new (to him) dog a couple of weeks ago and was walking it in the park yesterday while I was out with my dog. I asked if he was going to get it neutered and he said no, he wanted to breed it in January. When I asked why, he said it was because he wanted one of the puppies. When I asked what he would do with the other puppies, he said he would just give them to a shelter or something. Along with the dog he had just gotten. He didn't say it in a mean way, or in a way that would imply he had any idea what would happen to the undesireables. He just said it matter of factly. I don't think many people realize what happens to dogs and cats that go to the city's shelters. There are SO MANY unwanted animals out there. Next time you think of going to a breeder or of breeding yourself, think about all the dogs and cats that call a metal cage and a cement floor home.
The following article was written in 2003, about one of Chicago's city animal shelters:
At their final stop, unadoptable strays and abandoned pets find a bit of dignity
Tail wagging, the medium-sized black pit bull tugged at the leash. He had spotted a large dog biscuit on the floor and lunged for it. Once he'd pounced on it, he flopped on the floor and snarfed it up, careful to get every crumb.
It was his last meal.
Less than two minutes later, the dog lay dead on the floor at the City of Chicago's Animal Care and Control facility at 27th Street and Western Avenue, one of about two dozen dogs and cats being euthanized on this Friday evening.
It's something that goes on nightly here--more than 10,000 times a year--a process that's both horrible and unavoidable.
"I'm just glad it's not my choice to say who goes down," says Gloria Weaver.
Weaver is one of the facility's four euthanasia technicians whose job it is to administer the fatal injections. How many has she done in her 3 1/2 years on the job?
"Too many. That's one thing I don't want to think about. The count.
"I look at the list, and some nights it's 20 dogs, 15 cats. My God, that's too many. That's the sad part. But where would they go?"
Animal Care and Control gets 80,000 calls a year. Some 30,000 animals, about 26,000 of them dogs and cats, are impounded. Of the 30,000, about 3,000 are adopted out and 3,500 are taken in by other shelters and rescue facilities, if they have room. Perhaps 5,000 more are reclaimed by their owners. The rest? You do the math. "People have to understand we don't have a choice," says Melanie Sobel, director of program services at Animal Care and Control. "This is an open-door shelter, we're open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. People just don't realize the magnitude."
Gloria Weaver realizes it. So does Adrian Densmore, the other euth tech on duty this night.
"I remember the first one I did, with the guy who trained me," Densmore says. "It was a real old dog. And the first time I did it, I had tears in my eyes."
That was 3 1/2 years ago. Since then, he says, the job hasn't been quite so disturbing.
"I understand why we do it," he says. "It gets a little easier."
But it's never easy.
"Sometimes I wonder if I'm doing a bad thing," he says. "I ask myself. I wonder what God thinks about this. It's my job; I'm supposed to do this. But you wonder."
Talk to the euth techs, or anyone involved in the process, and you can't help but be touched when they talk about the animals whose lives they end.
Love them till the end
"You gotta care; if you don't, you're just cold-hearted," Weaver says. "If you felt, `Oh, hell, put 'em down,' there's something wrong with you. We gotta love 'em till the end. We gotta show 'em some love. I find myself saying, `I'm sorry, I'm sorry,' in their ears."
Such concern was evident with the black pit bull mix. No one had to offer him that biscuit, and the animal care aide holding the leash didn't have to take the time to let the young dog--he was just a few months old--finish those last morsels. But as with so much that goes on in Care and Control's holding area each night after 7--after the building is closed to the public--there was a measure of dignity and respect offered to the pup.
"It's amazing, you know," Weaver says. "You're taking a life. You find yourself petting them even after they're dead."
The nightly process begins with "the list," which is drawn up by shelter director Norma Torres.
"The smallest could be 10, but they average 25," she says. "It could go as high as 35. I don't think I've ever gone more than 40.
"And I don't think I've ever seen a day of zero. Not with the number of impoundments we do. That'd mean every dog we impounded was perfect for adoption. And that just doesn't happen."
How do animals end up breathing their last on the floor of the holding area at Animal Care and Control? The short answer is because their cage numbers are on Torres' list. The longer answer, the better answer, is that they're here because of people's carelessness, stupidity or cruelty. People let their dogs and cats run loose. People don't get their animals spayed or neutered, leading to overpopulation. People buy pets from puppy mills or pet shops when there are thousands of animals filling shelters. People stage dog fights. People do terrible things to animals.
Not on the list
Most of the animals put down are the impoundments, strays that had been running loose or dogs that were involved in fighting. Badly injured or vicious animals that are brought in by police or Animal Care and Control officers--animals not involved in possible court cases--are euthanized right away without even making Torres' list. Sick dogs brought in by owners for euthanization also aren't counted on the list.
Dogs that are brought in as strays are held for five days, waiting for their owner to claim them. After five days they become the property of the city. The animal is put on an evaluation list by the veterinarians and is tested for health and temperament. Every animal is looked at on an individual basis.
"It's not like we have a cutoff--oh, he's 5 years old, he gets euthanized," Sobel says. "It depends on the animal."
Evaluating the animals is part of Torres' job. She says she tries to determine if a dog or cat is a rescue-transfer candidate. When she sees an overly aggressive animal, she knows it probably will end up on her list; others that may cower in their cages in fear or seem distant may not.
"If there's a dog that has not shown well but I have bonded to, I'll put a hold on that dog. `Don't touch my dog,'" she says.
"You can reason and try to be logical with yourself. Yes, these animals have to be euthanized. But if that dog is timid and shaking, maybe there's a better solution. I couldn't put that dog on a euth list. I'd feel like I'm selling my soul."
So she'll start working the phones, looking for another shelter or rescue organization to take the dog in.
"I feel like a used-car salesman. `He's an older gray poodle, but people like these little models,'" she says, laughing.
Still, there are never spots for all the animals, and some just can't be saved. Those are the ones that are led into the holding area every night.
The process is methodical. There's no joking among the staff members, no small talk about the Bears or the weather.
Paul Mui, the animal care aid shift supervisor, checks Torres' list and calls out a cage number. An animal care aide fetches the animal from one of the pavilions down the hall, a three- or four-minute walk.
The dogs are led into the holding area one at a time. No animal sees another one put down; even the cages of other animals in the holding area are turned away so the occupants don't see what's going on. A syringe has been prepared. The dogs are muzzled, just in case.
A tourniquet is put on the animal's leg. One tech holds the animal, another gives the injection of sodium pentabarbital; in effect, an overdose of barbiturates (until about 3 1/2 years ago, Chicago still used a gas chamber).
It's over quickly and quietly. Within seconds the animals go limp and are gently placed on the floor. Another 10 or so seconds later, one of the techs will touch the animal's eye to see if there is a reaction. Then they feel for a heartbeat.
And more often than not, the dog will get a gentle pat on the shoulder or rump.
It's not an easy job.
"When I'm walking them down the hallway, I tell them that everything will be OK, I tell them I won't hurt them," Densmore says. "You talk to 'em four or five minutes, and you get to know them a little bit, you become friends, and they'll be wagging their tails.
"Then you euthanize them, and, man, I just euthanized an animal that I told everything would be OK. . . . that animal trusted me."
"People say, `How do you get used to the smell in there?'" Weaver says. "Well, you don't. But the smell is nothing to what we have to do in here."
"I leave it here," Densmore adds. "I don't talk to my fiance about it. She doesn't know what I do here. It's a secret you don't tell your family or friends."
The animals--they're "bodies," not "carcasses" or anything less to the staff--are then carefully, at times almost tenderly, slipped into heavy black plastic bags and lifted onto a cart, from where they'll be placed in a freezer, waiting to be picked up by an incineration service.
Tails wagging
As soon as one animal is removed, another is brought through the doors. Sniffing, wagging its tail, trying to lick people.
A heavyset, older brown pit bull, a dog that appears to have seen some battles in his day, is brought over. There's no fight in him tonight. In fact, even after he's fitted with the blue muzzle, he's wagging his tail, seemingly excited by the attention he's getting. The tail keeps wagging as he gets the injection.
Almost instantly, the wagging stops and the dog, in the arms of one of the techs, keels over.
And so it goes. A Rottweiler, another wagging tail belying the aggressive tendencies that got her on tonight's list, is next. Then another pit. A shepherd mix. A shaggy mix. More pits, including the black one.
The process goes on for more than an hour. Finally it's over. The last cart of bodies is taken to the freezer, and the crew is done well before 10 o'clock. That's when the trucks roll in and have to be unloaded.
The trucks are Animal Care and Control's vehicles that have spent the day on the streets, rounding up strays that will refill the cages and start the cycle again.
How to be part of the solution
Just as there always are dogs and cats facing euthanasia, there are always animals ready for adoption.
At press time, Chicago's Animal Care and Control facility at 2741 S. Western Ave. had 80 dogs and 40 cats--and two rabbits--awaiting new homes.
All the dogs and puppies have had physicals, they've been screened for good temperaments, they've gotten their shots, have been dewormed and are heartworm negative. Before going out the door, they're also spayed or neutered and microchipped. And if they're more than 3 months of age, they have their city licenses. The shelter even throws in a new leash.
Likewise, all the cats and kittens have had physicals, have all their shots, are dewormed and feline leukemia negative. They also are spayed or neutered and microchipped before being adopted. Cats come with a free carrier.
The adoption process is simple. If a visitor--the shelter is open every day from noon to 7 p.m.--finds a dog or cat he'd like to adopt, he takes the animal's cage card to the front desk. He fills out an application and gets adoption counseling.
If the adoption is approved, the new owner can write his check--the fee is $65--and take his new pet home, provided the animal has already been altered.
In the case where the animal has to be spayed or neutered, dogs can go home the following day, cats two days later.
By William Hageman
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| 19th September 2006 08:52 PM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Carter never got high, he was too Christian to have fun.
Seriously, why don't we let Iraq divide up into a bunch of parts? Seems like thats what these whackos wants anyway. All we care is that each part has a strong, pro-American government and the means to generate oil. If it would satisfy these Islamic nutcases, we wouldn't have to sit there spending billions ($$$$$$$$$) a day babysitting the place. We could keep reasonable, low-key, but high-tech bases in each one, and then spend the taxpayer green on real threats like Iran.
Iraq will never be a democracy - that's some mincy, pipe dream, koombaya, I'm OK-You're Ok, utopian fantasy that the Bush Geeks dreamed up. Who fucking cares about their demented world view where Hezzbollics actually prance around throwing flowers in the air? Its time to look at the bottom line - face fucking reality. Iran is building nuclear bombs - Iraq build IEDs - in a world of finite resources, where do you want to spend your hard-earned dollars? (Hint: don't ask George Walker Bush III - his dad was too busy to teach the retard what a dollar was).
Billions a day?
Ahh........if you say so
You ok? |
| 19th September 2006 08:57 PM |
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| telecaster |
http://www.narsil.org/politics/carter/killer_rabbit.html
Another reason Carter sucked. Remember when he claimed he was attacked by a "killer rabbit" while Pres? |
| 19th September 2006 09:08 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Billions a day?
Ahh........if you say so
You ok?
Half billion?
I was multiply 140,000 times $8,000 which is what I figured it costs to arm, sustain, and compensate a battlefield soldier per day. I was actually ignoring the charity, nation-building, waste we fork to the Islamics, which probably doubles the figure.
Howe much do you think we spend a day in Iraq?
I suppose we could figure it out if we wanted to, but my blatantly obvious point was that its a lot of money per day. There are these things called (1) cost-benefit analyses and (2) opportunity costs, that most institutions do. They can be invaluable methodologies in strategic decision making. Someone should try to teach George Walker Bush III what they are. You should do it! Teach your boy! |
| 19th September 2006 09:11 PM |
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| pdog |
Is it too late to impeach Carter?
Let's do it...
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| 19th September 2006 09:16 PM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Half billion?
I was multiply 140,000 times $8,000 which is what I figured it costs to arm, sustain, and compensate a battlefield soldier per day. I was actually ignoring the charity, nation-building, waste we fork to the Islamics, which probably doubles the figure.
Howe much do you think we spend a day in Iraq?
I suppose we could figure it out if we wanted to, but my blatantly obvious point was that its a lot of money per day. There are these things called (1) cost-benefit analyses and (2) opportunity costs, that most institutions do. They can be invaluable methodologies in strategic decision making. Someone should try to teach George Walker Bush III what they are. You should do it! Teach your boy!
$8,000 a day is what you figure? Based on?
Anyway, yeah it's a shitload of money. Freedom isn't free
Howe much did WWII cost? |
| 19th September 2006 09:18 PM |
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| telecaster |
http://www.easybourse.com/Website/dynamic/News.php?NewsID=58170&lang=fra&NewsRubrique=2
Wasn't someone a couple of pages ago bitching about tax cuts during war?
Looks like they worked
Come on people, lets push this bitch to 500 and give jb what he wants |
| 19th September 2006 09:21 PM |
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| pdog |
Free is Free!
The price of Dom is what's killing us!
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| 19th September 2006 09:22 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Is it too late to impeach Carter?
Let's do it...
Electing Ronald Reagan was Carter's impeachment - no Pres had lost a second term in like whatever years, and Carter got tossed hardcore by the Reagan revolution, which revitalized America, which made it nation time again, Benji.............which George Walker Bush III officially killed the minute he took the oath, look at us now, ffs - god Christ allmighty, this is a joke, right? No one seriously cares about or listens to this twit anymore, right? Right, Bush Geeks? We can ALL hardly wait until this is over, right? Even if you won't admit it? |
| 19th September 2006 09:25 PM |
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| pdog |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
We can ALL hardly wait until this is over, right? Even if you won't admit it?
1-20-2009 Bush's Last Day As President !!! |
| 19th September 2006 09:36 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
$8,000 a day is what you figure? Based on?
Anyway, yeah it's a shitload of money. Freedom isn't free
Howe much did WWII cost?
Based on just sitting here thinking about what it would cost to arm, sustain, and compensate a soldier on a battlefield per day.
Was I far off? Go try it, you'll probably come up near with what I did.
What does the cost of WWII have to do with this? Dude, you will never elevate that dope to the likes of Churchill, FDR no matter howe hard Rice et al. try it. Its so far off it doesn't even register. Two years, George Walker Bush III is gone forever. No one will ever talk about him again, except in jokes.
Anyway, the analysis you have to do is (1) the costs of the Iraq occupation versus the benefits, and (2) the opportunities forgone as a result. Its not easy to do in close situations, this could have been one, but we needed marginal competent leadership, there was no way in hell we were getting that with George Walker Bush III.
And more anyway, we're there in Iraq now, have to keep trying to forge a result, and I still don't see problems with splitting up the place. No one has told me any either. I'm open to ideas on that. Split it up - get some peace? |
| 19th September 2006 09:39 PM |
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| Starbuck |
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| 19th September 2006 09:42 PM |
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| telecaster |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Based on just sitting here thinking about what it would cost to arm, sustain, and compensate a soldier on a battlefield per day.
Was I far off? Go try it, you'll probably come up near with what I did.
What does the cost of WWII have to do with this? Dude, you will never elevate that dope to the likes of Churchill, FDR no matter howe hard Rice et al. try it. Its so far off it doesn't even register. Two years, George Walker Bush III is gone forever. No one will ever talk about him again, except in jokes.
Anyway, the analysis you have to do is (1) the costs of the Iraq occupation versus the benefits, and (2) the opportunities forgone as a result. Its not easy to do in close situations, this could have been one, but we needed marginal competent leadership, there was no way in hell we were getting that with George Walker Bush III.
And more anyway, we're there in Iraq now, have to keep trying to forge a result, and I still don't see problems with splitting up the place. No one has told me any either. I'm open to ideas on that. Split it up - get some peace?
The cost benefit is not known as it is not over, it is in progress
What opportunities are foregone? None
Iran will be all air and all Navy. Harldy any of which we are using in Iraq
Less than 5% of our air and naval forces
I am not against splitting up the place
Actually I would do what they do in Alaska, give each citizen oil money every year.
Bush may be gone in two years but by then someone will have to deal with Iran and it ain't the UN and it ain't Europe that has the balls to do it
But we do know Bush has and will attack other countries
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| 19th September 2006 09:46 PM |
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| Jimmy_Carter |
quote:
Next time you think of going to a breeder or of breeding yourself, think about all the dogs and cats that call a metal cage and a cement floor home.
Does this mean you're not planning on reproducing?
After reading your post, I have decided to throw my full presidential weight into the matter. I will be starting my own doghouse charity called "Habitat for Caninity".
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| 19th September 2006 10:01 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
The cost benefit is not known as it is not over, it is in progress
Wrong. The benefit is realized. Costs continue - at a billion a day? This is asymptotic, bordering on exponential.
quote:
What opportunities are foregone? None
Wrong. So wrong, I can't even begin to explain.
quote:
I am not against splitting up the place
Actually I would do what they do in Alaska, give each citizen oil money every year.
Did not know that about Alaska. I think thats what those Islamics need to assuage their disgusting mentalities - bucks! Split them up, get the oil flowing and shut their asses up.
quote:
Bush may be gone in two years but by then someone will have to deal with Iran and it ain't the UN and it ain't Europe that has the balls to do it
They sure don't. Which makes it so strange why he keeps handing the Iran problem to them, as he has done for years now. Links are easy to find on that one. George Walker Bush III has ignored this one forever. Deferred, prevaricated, capitulated. He sucks.
quote:
But we do know Bush has and will attack other countries
I'll never understand this one as a Bush thing. All presidents can hardly wait to get into wars. What "will" does it take these days? Its not like they fight. They get hammered in the press and praised as well. It comes out in the wash. I thought Dems got in more wars than Republicans, and that was a bad thing? That was what they used to teach me in the Young Republicans club in college. I never thought it was our strongest argument on why Dems suck. I thought big government, big spending, big waste, and fucked up foreign policy on whackos was........now we have George Walker Bush III.
Help me, help help me, Ronnie Reaganie! |
| 19th September 2006 11:20 PM |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Jimmy_Carter wrote:
Does this mean you're not planning on reproducing?
After reading your post, I have decided to throw my full presidential weight into the matter. I will be starting my own doghouse charity called "Habitat for Caninity".
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| 20th September 2006 05:57 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
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| 20th September 2006 08:13 AM |
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| Maxlugar |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
They sure don't. Which makes it so strange why he keeps handing the Iran problem to them, as he has done for years now. Links are easy to find on that one. George Walker Bush III has ignored this one forever. Deferred, prevaricated, capitulated. He sucks.
Help me, help help me, Ronnie Reaganie!
Dude, were you alseep all those months in '02 and early '03 when Bush was begging the UN to do something against Iraq for violating 6000 of their own resolutions? He practically gave every member of the disgusting organization a rim job for six months to get them to authorize the use of force. They didn't of course because they were deep in Saddam's pockets. But he did the right thing and tried. He's doing the same thing now with Iran. If they do not go along, he will do it himself. But you have to try, if only to expose these idiots as the dithering moofs they are.
Saddam"
"I call upon the forces of Islam to crash down up Raspy and his idiotic posting skills. By allah there will be a plastic shredder caked with the blood of one useless poster! BABA BOEY!"
Howard Stern Radio show - Oct 9, 1999. |
| 20th September 2006 08:21 AM |
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| Jimmy_Carter |
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| 20th September 2006 08:49 AM |
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| rasputin56 |
quote:
Maxlugar wrote:
Saddam"
"I call upon the forces of Islam to crash down up Raspy and his idiotic posting skills. By allah there will be a plastic shredder caked with the blood of one useless poster! BABA BOEY!"
Howard Stern Radio show - Oct 9, 1999.
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