| September 13th, 2004 01:43 AM |
|
|
| Zack |
Keith called the GHS-Black & Blue period "junkie music," but to me LIB and Sticky Fingers seem more like junkie music than the mid-70s albums, with Coming Down Again being an obvious exception. Tracks like Gimme Shelter just ooze the influence of smack, and of course half the songs on Sticky contain direct lyrical allusions to hard drugs. Does anyone agree with Keith on his "junkie music" quote, or is he just trying to explain the weak points of those albums away because he was a junkie at the time. If it really was junkie music, why? |
| September 13th, 2004 02:36 AM |
|
|
| Bloozehound |
quote:
Zack wrote:
Tracks like Gimme Shelter just ooze the influence of smack,
I have to admit I've never thought of that before, interesting. If anything I've always thought it had a tinge of psychedelia to it....fascinating song, kinda hard to analyze or compare it, cuz nothing else really sounds like it...
quote:
Zack wrote:
or is he just trying to explain the weak points of those albums away because he was a junkie at the time.
I've heard this comment about "junkie music" before, and your answer there is how I always took the comments to mean, but I'm no expert.
I will say that those 3 "junkie" albums are a tad more experimental than the more rootsy blues/country/rock based Big 4...but all my copies of those albums cd cases are scratched to hell from cutting to much damned cocain-O on them back in my wild college days. So they're all pretty druggie from where I'm standin' heh |
| September 14th, 2004 01:21 AM |
|
|
| Zack |
I thought this was an intelligent question and a good point of departure for discussing the influence of Keith's drug habit on the Stones music of the mid-70s. Yet the topic "if the Stones were on Survivor who would you vote off?" got many more responses. Thanks Bloozehound, you understand me. My lower lip's quivering ... |
| September 14th, 2004 02:33 AM |
|
|
| Egbert |
Zack I couldn't agree with you more regarding LIB being THE "heroin album". Led Zep's Phys Graf would be another. |
| September 14th, 2004 05:07 AM |
|
|
| scratched |
With the term 'junkie music' I think Keith was refering to his own personal difficulty with the creative process once his drug consumption started to hinder, not inspire, his music. Gimme Shelter for example could be seen as a record inspired in many ways by the skyscraping highs achieved by taking heroin and cocaine. The vast shimmering intro and the desire to escape expressed by the lyrics are examples of this. Other records that drugs arguably aided Keith to produce include the dirty druggy funk of CYHMK, the amphetamine rush of Rocks Off and Rip This Joint etc. By the time we get to GHS and IORR, it seems as if the high of the drugs is wearing off and not inspiring Keith in the same way anymore. It's obvious from listening to Dancing With Mr D and IYCRM among others that he's not reaching the limits of his potential anymore and the drugs are beginning to close him down creatively. There are other factors involved of course, but I think this is a major one. I remember reading an interview with Mick Jagger where he states that during the GHS - B&B era, it took Keith much longer to write songs. B&B for example only has seven original songs on it (mainly, I suspect, Jagger's). I believe this general drug induced inertia and 'musical constipation' is what Keith was getting at.
[Edited by scratched] |
| September 14th, 2004 05:25 AM |
|
|
| erikjjf |
Mick in 1995:
"I mean, everyone was using drugs, Keith particularly. So I think the mid-70s albums suffered a bit from all that. General malaise. I think we got a bit carried away with our own popularity and so on. It was a bit of a holiday period (laughs). I mean, we cared, but we didn't care as much as we had. Not really concentrating on the creative process." |
| September 14th, 2004 07:58 PM |
|
|
| Soldatti |
About half songs on each album not seems junkies at all. |
| September 15th, 2004 03:31 AM |
|
|
| stonedinaustralia |
i think scratched has put it pretty well
what??...............yeah sure....here we go....
Once I was a boogie guitar slinger
Playin' in a rock and roll band
I never had no problems
Burnin' down the one night stands
And everything around me
Got to start to feelin' so low
And I decided quickly
To hit up and check out the show
Yeah, they were dancin' and singin'
And movin' to the groovin'
And just when it hit me
Somebody turned around and shouted
Play that junky music, white boy
Play that junky music right
Play that junky music, white boy
Lay down that boogie and play that junky music till you die
Till you die, oh till you die
I tried to understand this
I thought they were out of their minds
How could I be so foolish
To not see I was the one behind
So still I kept on fighting
Losing every step of the way
I said I must go back there
And check to see if things still the same
Yeah, they were dancin' and singin'
And movin' to the groovin'
And just when it hit me
Somebody turned around and shouted
Play that junky music, white boy
Play that junky music right
Play that junky music, white boy
Lay down that boogie and play that junky music till you die
Till you die, oh till you die
Now first it wasn't easy
Changin' rock-and-rollin' minds
And things were getting shaky
I thought I'd have to leave it behind
But now it's so much better
I'm junking out in every way
But I'll never lose that feelin'
Of how I learned my lesson that day
Yeah, they were dancin' and singin'
And movin' to the groovin'
And just when it hit me
Somebody turned around and shouted
Play that junky music, white boy
Play that junky music right
Play that junky music, white boy
Lay down that boogie and play that junky music till you die
Till you die, oh till you die
[Edited by stonedinaustralia] |
| September 15th, 2004 07:46 AM |
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
I think Keith calls GHS->B&B "junkie music" because he had very little to do with those albums. He was too drug addled to contribute much of anything of value. He was lucky to be able to show up to record anything at all, much less write good songs. The result was 3 pretty Keefless records....records dominated by Mick/Mick Taylor. Not that Taylor got any songwriting credit or anything.
I don't think Keith meant that the music was influenced directly by heroin...but indirectly, by him not being there....the lack of Keef being there as a contributor. |
| September 15th, 2004 04:14 PM |
|
|
| justforyou |
>..the lack of Keef being there as a contributor
For someone who played on most if not all the tracks from those 3 albums, how could Keith not have participated ? |
| September 15th, 2004 04:46 PM |
|
|
| Bloozehound |
Beautifully said scratched.
Just being a realist here, but with the exception of SG that musical constipation seemed to have continue on well after the junkie days were a thing of the past.
Sure, a few flashes of brilliance here and there, but never an albums worth.
They've been especially constipated the last 7 years, maybe one last trip to the studio will be the great enema they need to relieve themselves of one great swan song before the parties over. |
| September 15th, 2004 06:07 PM |
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
>For someone who played on most if not all the tracks from those 3 albums, how could Keith not have participated ?<
I didn't say he didn't participate...I said he didn't contribute much. Meaning, he was not a pricipal songwriter. Yes, he is credited, but for the most part, the songs on GHS thru B&B are mostly penned by Mick Jagger. Mick Taylor had more to do with songwriting on GHS and IORR than Keith did.
Keith was AWOL. Plain and simple. His body may have been there, but his soul belonged to the horse. He played on autopilot. Imagine how great those records would have been with Keith playing at a full bore 100%....like, say, Some Girls.
Anyhow, sorry I didn't make myself clear enough first time around. Hope this clarifies what I meant. |
| September 15th, 2004 06:32 PM |
|
|
| justforyou |
Ok, but I love that warm, slowish, precise, filling guitar sound that seemed to change from '81 onwards. On the '78 tour, it still seems there.
Not that I don't like the more edgy, trebly, cranky sound from the last 25 years (seems to remind me more of the early stones sound) which maybe lends itself better to 'weaving'.
I presume this change is not only due to different equipment. |
| September 15th, 2004 11:05 PM |
|
|
| Soldatti |
quote:
justforyou wrote:
I presume this change is not only due to different equipment.
Agree... |
CHAT
ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]