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A Bigger Bang Tour 2006

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Topic: Keith's Evelution As A Guitarist Return to archive
15th September 2006 02:49 AM
Milo Yammbag Keith Richards is the reason I started to play guitar and I am curious as to what all of you think of his playing through years.
As a player he has evolved, gone through periods where he played a particular way and phrased his playing.
The early Keith, from the start of the band until roughly 1967/68 was interesting. By and large, even before he started using the G-tuning sound that people have come to identify KR AND The band's sound, he never really was a "strummer" for the most part.
Of course on some songs KR did play a traditional strumming style and on many songs as a basic track (Satisfaction for example)buried underneath to fill out the sound. The early KR was very punctual in his playing. He had a very good sense of when NOT to play which is rare. In writing and playing the songs he stuck to the riff, added some timely licks and carried the song through accented chords. Songs like Under My Thumb, Cloud, Breakdown, Mother's little Helper, and so many more.
Phase 2 of KR's playing came with the demise of Brian's ability (and intrest?) to play guitar properly because he broke his hand and it never healed right. The age of over-dubbing, layering tracks and of course the G tuning. I think he maintained his original sense of playing but it became more refined because of technology he had more space to work with and use for expression. Let It Bleed is the perfect example. Phase 2 was interesting in one way. In the studio KR was over-dubbing and layering tracks, but live, with Taylor he was pretty much crunching out Rythym guitar in his own way. I think they played live songs too fast during the Taylor period which really limited KR's playing.
Phase 3: Ronnie and ditching the Heroin. I find that Keith's playing almost went back to his original style...accentng, holding down the riff and timely licks, with Ronnie doing the same. Basically Some Girls through Dirty Work. Although the 80's were a pretty bad time for the band, ironically I think Keith was at the top of his game as a player. The terrible arthritis was not a factor, he was experienced and was quick when he wanted to be...same for Ron. I think one of his best solo's ever is the one from 1986 Hail Hail Rock N Roll...Little Queenie. A perfect Keith solo. During this era he also like that staccato slapback echo - several songs on Emotional Rescue, Tattoo and Undercover.
Phase 4: Steel Wheels, Voodoo and Stripped. I don't find any real trend in his playing at this point, except having the chance to indulge on some songs on Stripped. A combination of all his previous stylings over the years.
Phase 5 -Bridges to Babylon. Keith starts to give more attention to phrasing on slower tunes. He is starting too become more punctual and accent orientated than ever before, perhaps due to Arthritis and the diminshed flexibilty (listen how he makes the guitar moan on Out of Control)....but it forced him to find another way to play. Still able to crunch out a chugging Stones rocker, but to me his gentle playing becomes more interesting. I think this phase continued into A Bigger Bang. Your typical Keith sound is there but again his playing on many tracks is timely, accented and in some cases minimilist, with very nice results.
I am curious to see hear what is future playing will be like. I think part of his playing is influenced by his age and the fact that he seems comfortable about it.
I honestly don't know how he plays...his knuckles are so swollen. The pain must be real bad after a show.
A truly unique player.

Regarding A Bigger Bang. I like the album a lot, a really good album, in any era of their career, Mick and Keith actually writing together for thr first time in years. I think if they put "Under The Radar" in Streets of Love Slot and put "We Don't Wanna Go Home" in the Neo-con slot it would have been an even better album.

Just my opinion. "Share your thoughts"

Milo, NYC


Phase 4: Steel Wheels
15th September 2006 09:10 AM
Honky Tonk Man Welcome to the board!

Very good observations and I personally love seeing threads like this on our board.

Check out my Goats Head Soup thread below a bit and let us know your opinions there!

Anyway, back to the subject matter. I really do agree with your opinion in regards to the various phases of Keith’s playing. Right from the offset he was quite different from the rest. There were not too many guitarists who could construct unique and individual guitar solos back in 64 or 65. That job fell to session men like Jimmy Page. Indecently, were you aware that Keith COPIED the Heart Of Stone solo from Page? He came up with the solo on the original Andrew Loog Oldham Orchestra take and Keith has reportedly admitted to copying it note for note for the eventual Stones recording.

The next stage of Keith’s playing was very much rhythm orientated. The discovery of open tuning coupled with Mick Taylor’s ability to go crazy was the perfect invitation for Keith to develop and work on the basics of playing. All those classics like Jumpin' Jack Flash, Brown Sugar etc may seem simple, but he thought of them and that’s the hard part.

Ronnie’s arrival in '76 and his more rhythm orientated style allowed Keith to share the responsibilities a bit more. Listen to records like Some Girls or Emotional Rescue and you can clearly hear two of the great English rhythm players working together to create a unique and new sound. I've heard some say that it was like the Brian days again, but I don't agree there. The early days of Brain was very much a case of him holding down a blues rhythm while Keith sprawled Chuck Berry licks everywhere. As great as it was, The Ronnie set-up was definitely different.

That phase continued right up through to Voodoo Lounge in my opinion. All those LP's have a similar style of play from both men. I think Bridges To Babylon somewhat led to a different direction. Mick’s influences were creeping in and overall; it's not so much a guitar-orientated record. I think A Bigger Bang is very much the same too. I like your point about Keith’s minimalist approach these days. That’s spot on. I get the impression that a lot of the rhythm work on the latest release is Jagger. Ronnie pops up for his bit and Keith supplies a monster riff here and a few bent notes there. It is disappointing in a way. Its kind of lie it is live. Keith kicks things off (Before They Make Me Run for instance) and just sits back and lets someone else take over. I think the old magic is still there, I just think its lazy, but I guess that when you have such an eager beaver as Jagger ready to do the hard graft, why not? I don't personally feel that A Bigger Bang is a worse record for it.
15th September 2006 09:35 AM
Stray Cat UK Welcome Milo !

You observations are spot on !

Keith is unique.

His playing and sound on Hail Hail RnR was a peak IMHO.


sc uk
15th September 2006 09:56 AM
star star welcome!

have you seen jean luc godards one plus one? keith in 1968, with his black LP! his bluesy licks and precision on some of the jams at the very start of the film impressed me so much, i thought i was listening to a different player! so so different from his chuck berry esque soloing... infact im sure if keith hadnt got so caught up in the rock n roll lifestyle he would be a much more accomplished lead guitarist alongside his rhythm guitar prowess, but maybe thats not his bag baby.
15th September 2006 10:10 AM
Gazza Welcome Milo - good to see ya over here.
15th September 2006 10:31 AM
jb Keith's evolution can be summed up in two wors-Mick Taylor.
15th September 2006 04:36 PM
playguitar JB wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith's evolution can be summed up in two wors-Mick Taylor.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm totally impressed. You are so right. Do you play ?
15th September 2006 07:49 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:
I am curious to see hear what is future playing will be like. I think part of his playing is influenced by his age and the fact that he seems comfortable about it.
I honestly don't know how he plays...his knuckles are so swollen. The pain must be real bad after a show.



Well done, Milo. Wanna take bets on what kind of cocktail Keith consumes to salve the aforementioned pain?
15th September 2006 09:12 PM
Poplar First off - great post. Welcome.

quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:
Keith Richards is the reason I started to play guitar During this era he also like that staccato slapback echo - several songs on Emotional Rescue, Tattoo and Undercover.



That's my favorite Keith sound. It helped craft that punk-lite sound of the Stones in that era. I often set my compression and delay pedals to mimic that quick echo. It's SO fun to play with.

Not sure if you're a Phish fan, but Trey often used the old UniVibe pedal to a similar effect... sort of a chorus feel but bumped up to something a little fatter. Sickest guitar sound ever.

15th September 2006 11:43 PM
Southbound Train Milo,

Thanks for your excellent analysis..., likewise HonkyTonk Man.

Dance on ye mighty Rolling Stones fans..., you kick ass.
16th September 2006 01:08 AM
Milo Yammbag Hello everyone, thank you for the gracious welcome, good to see ya Gazza....I got banned from IORR.ORG. I posted something there, the administrator let about 73 people beat me to deaththen closed down the thread before I could defend my point. Anyway.........

It's good to be back on a board amongst us Stones freaks. I have been reading posts here for a while and finally just got around to registering.

From the posts that I read I learned some stuff...the solo on Heart of Stone for one.

Regarding Keith's live playing these days I have to agree that there are times when he does basically blow off the guitar playing, especially on his songs. I have seen them 17 times (Shea Stadium, Philly and the rest Giants Stadium & MSG....the last time I missed getting Keiths pick by about 2 inches at the B-stage. Damn!), next show is Sept 27 at Giants Stadium row 18, first section...Keith side.

Since the Bridges Tour there are his non-guitar moments during his songs..All About You, Slipping Away...which was on purpose with him leaning on the guitar after the intro. From there I think it depends on the show...still in the area of his shows. He played throughout The Worst, Wanna Hold You, This Place is Empty, Infamy and The Nearness of You. With Happy, yea, these days he focuses more on singing. With Before They Make Me Run....thats just a hard song to sing and play at the same time. Easy, but a lot of chord changes plus the timing of the lyrics are a little off kilter in a way only Keith can seem to understand. At the same time when he stops singing he plays the hell out of the song (check out Paris Club show from Four Flicks).

Although he may lay back at times I think it is because he knows the support is there (The 1981 tour was the last all out guitar assault tour...my favorite boots are from that era, Ronnie and Keith slashing at each other plus the almost 14 minute Jumping Jack Flash with Keith and Ron leaving the fort to Charlie and Bill while they belt out a chorus then sonically assault you all the way home). These days, overall due to the sound systems, the gigantic TV screen and all the eye candy, each show literally has a producer to keep the pace. People complained that Keith no longer directed the band onstage, that Chuck was now doing it because Keith was not capable anymore. Trust me...whoever counts out the song gets a cue from the show producer when to do it. How else can they play almost a perfectly timed 2 hour show night after night.

Back to Keith's playing.....on other songs he still kills. Songs like Monkey Man, Rambler, Dice, etc. A lot of finger work on those tunes. During A Bigger Bang Tour I thought he and sober Ron played really good on She's So Cold, Rocks Off, Let's Spend the Night Together, Ain't Too Proud To Beg, All Down The Line and played elegantly on As Tears Go By...not to forget Rough Justice and Oh No.

I still do not know how he gets those fingers to move, no kidding. At the MSG show where he was 5 feet from me on the B-stage, I could not believe how swollen his fingers were...even on his pick hand. His left pointer Finger looks like it was flattened by a steam roller and all his knuckles look like they have marbles in them. I have some Arthritis in my left hand and after a few hours of playing it gets a little stiff the next day, but Keith must have too literally put his hand into an ice bucket or cold wrap that hand in between shows.

I know I am all over the place on this post but seems one thing leads to another. Regarding A Bigger Bang, yes I do agree that a lot of the rythym guitar work is Mick. You can distinguish Mick's playing because he seems to love that up-stroke. From what I read, the songs were sent to Ronnie via computer and he overdubbed his parts at his home in Ireland. However the tracks finally came together I was very pleased. I think that Ron's contributions to the album were very good, plus Under The Radar and We Don'[t Wanna Go Home.

When You think about it, Keith started playing when he was 15 years old, or just shy of 15. 5 years later he was famous and not long after started writing some of the best rock songs ever to be made. Incredible when you think how fast it happened. I do not see how anyone can ever question the man's talent.

Milo, NYC
"It's funny how things go around"

16th September 2006 03:36 AM
Honky Tonk Man
quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:


From the posts that I read I learned some stuff...the solo on Heart of Stone for one.






Yep, Its Page alright. He's also supposidly on a few of the othe ALO orchestra tracks, though I'm not sure which ones. I don't think anyones bothered to find out!
16th September 2006 10:44 AM
speedfreakjive some great points!

i'd say Keith was still a great player until this tour, its not been to the same standard as on the Licks Tour IMO.
16th September 2006 11:09 AM
lotsajizz
quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:

During this era he also like that staccato slapback echo - several songs on Emotional Rescue, Tattoo and Undercover.





can never get enough staccato slapback echo! might explain why I love rackabilly....
16th September 2006 04:18 PM
Bruno
quote:
star star wrote:
welcome!

have you seen jean luc godards one plus one? keith in 1968, with his black LP! his bluesy licks and precision on some of the jams at the very start of the film impressed me so much, i thought i was listening to a different player! so so different from his chuck berry esque soloing...



I have seen some bits from One Plus One and I was impressed at Keith soloing between the takes, Eric Clapton-like, very fast in a way I didn´t know he could.

By the way, I love when you guys start those guitar talks, those are the moments I really dig this board.
[Edited by Bruno]
16th September 2006 05:24 PM
Dick Bush Keef never was a great guitar virtuoso, not in his very best prime, though his rifs and licks touched more people than all the fast slingers put together. It is the sweetness of his tunes, the wacky, delusive distortions, all those things you can't point with a finger but which made so many brains blow up.

I have heard hundreds of Hendrix clones, few of them being very good and even close to the original, but never ever a good Keef impersonator.That's not that easy.


17th September 2006 02:48 AM
Milo Yammbag Ever notice that almost nobody will release a cover of a Stones song? It has happened with horrible results, most notably Guns N Roses. There are several "tribute albums" where Stones songs are covered in country style. The reality is that no one wants to touch one of their songs becasue there is nothing that they can add to it....the original version is usually perfect.

Regarding Keith as a Virtuoso. He learned to play on a steady diet of Jimmy Reed, Muddy, Chuck and the Everly Brothers. No point in posting how strong his Chuck influence was and still is. Remember who he learned from...those guitar players played WITHIN the band as part of the song.

I would say Keith is more than a Virtuoso....they are a dime a dozen when it comes to guitar players. What makes him more than a virtuoso is that he is UNIQUE...a quality that very few guitar players have

Listen to the live version of Rambler from Ya-Ya's....he is playing lead guitar using chords and few notes

Milo, NYC
Ain't no use in cryin
17th September 2006 01:25 PM
mark The one element of Keith's playing that has remained constant is his sense of timing. Playing slightly ahead or behind the beat, turning around a phrase, syncopated rhythm patterns. It runs all the way from Englands Newest to ABB.
And besides, nobody does a two fingered triad in open G like Keith.
17th September 2006 04:18 PM
Dick Bush
quote:
mark wrote:
... Playing slightly ahead or behind the beat, turning around a phrase, syncopated rhythm patterns...


Exactly. I just couldn't express that. That's probably the reason why he is so much in love with Charlie and even being ready to quitt the Stones without him.

Keef is a the real genius of his instrument, surely the very best of his kind.

17th September 2006 04:54 PM
andrews27 Who do you suppose plays that rather "Tyrolean"-sounding (alpine-Swiss-Mitteleuropan) acoustic break in the middle of "Sittin' on a Fence"? Brian? Jimmy Page? Another hired gun? Anybody see it documented anywhere?
17th September 2006 10:40 PM
jpenn11 Interesting stuff. A few thoughts . . .

quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:
Of course on some songs KR did play a traditional strumming style and on many songs as a basic track (Satisfaction for example)buried underneath to fill out the sound.



I always thought that was Brian on Satisfaction.

quote:
live, with Taylor he was pretty much crunching out Rythym guitar in his own way. I think they played live songs too fast during the Taylor period which really limited KR's playing.


During '69, Richards played leads on 2 CB numbers, LWM, SFTD, UMT and was the only guitarist for the 2 acoustic numbers. For much, if not most, of the tour Taylor did not play leads on JJF, SFTD, or SFM, so Richards was handling no less than half of the lead duties.

Also, the '69 tour probably had the slowest tempos of any tour since the Brian Jones era.

Things of course change later. Presumably for the reason JB mentions.[/quote]

quote:
Milo Yammbag wrote:
Ever notice that almost nobody will release a cover of a Stones song? It has happened with horrible results


Rondstadt--TD
Faithful--ATGB
J Winter--ST
G Parsons--WH
Devo--Satisfaction
Redding--Satisfaction

Didn't each of these have hits with these covers? Do you regard these as horrible? (I don't recall whether Frampton's JJF was released as a single, but it received alot of radio play and, like it or not, it is not horrible.)

Then, there are others, such as Korner--GOMC, that are superb.

18th September 2006 02:47 AM
CraigP Even bending a string (or note for you who have no guitar clue) is so painful for him.

The example that stands out for me is the beginning of Rocks Off off of Four Flicks where you can see the pain in his face as he bent EVEN a 10 guage string, which is as light a s a feather!

He did smoke the axe on the Fenway shows last year.

Perhaps he was on some good dope to kill the pain and made him actually want to really play for fuck's sake.
(I know the feeling)
[Edited by CraigP]
18th September 2006 07:11 AM
Dick Bush
quote:
CraigP wrote:
Even bending a string (or note for you who have no guitar clue) is so painful for him.

The example that stands out for me is the beginning of Rocks Off off of Four Flicks where you can see the pain in his face as he bent EVEN a 10 guage string, which is as light a s a feather!

He did smoke the axe on the Fenway shows last year.

Perhaps he was on some good dope to kill the pain and made him actually want to really play for fuck's sake.
(I know the feeling)
[Edited by CraigP]



Smoking demonstrably doubles the risk of rheumatoid arthritis, extreme smoking has a strong deteriorating impact on the desease too. There are great new arthritis medications, unfortunatelly sometimes they don't work well with the hard smokers.

But to get the finger joints to look his way, one really has to use (and abuse) them very hard and permanently - just have a look on the neck of his favorite yellow tele he recently played in Europe too.

I really whish him to quitt the smoking, there's actually no choice for him.




[Edited by Dick Bush]
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