| September 7th, 2005 09:32 PM |
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| jcdesq |
I have been listening to the new album all day now. I now feel that it isn't that bad, it just isn't that good. I just think "Talk is Cheap and "Main Offender" are much better. In fact, I hope Keith puts out another solo album soon. The prospect of another Keith or Winos album is more exciting than a Stones album, in my opinion, and I would trade "A Bigger Bang" for a new Keith album.
Now I am sure I will be attacked for this post, but I think it is a fairly intelligent, topical question. It is slightly different from the ususal idolatry that goes on, and makes sense at this time. By the way, I am grateful we do have a new album from the boys.
In addition, what are the odds that Waddy Watchel, at this moment, is trying to lure a young boy to meet him at the nearest Texaco station so he can show him his penis and balls? |
| September 7th, 2005 09:47 PM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
jcdesq wrote:
I have been listening to the new album all day now. I now feel that it isn't that bad, it just isn't that good. I just think "Talk is Cheap and "Main Offender" are much better. In fact, I hope Keith puts out another solo album soon. The prospect of another Keith or Winos album is more exciting than a Stones album, in my opinion, and I would trade "A Bigger Bang" for a new Keith album.
Considering Keith's meager contributions to "A Bigger Bang" - five songs at best, three of them co-written by Mick - I don't think your hypothetical trade-off is even a possibility. |
| September 10th, 2005 09:15 PM |
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| gotdablouse |
Yes, Keith is dried up and has been since VL for some reason, he'd written most of that one ! Talking about the Winos, let's have Waddy play the lead guitar parts on the next Stones album though, like he did on B2B. |
| September 10th, 2005 09:22 PM |
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| The Wick |
The ideal would be if Talk is Cheap and Main Offender meet Wandering Spirit. Then we would have another classic on our hands. That's why I don't think it is completely beyond the realm of possibility that they can put out a "classic" album. Your question is really too difficult to answer though. Each one has its benefits. |
| September 10th, 2005 09:24 PM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Hey jcdesq, could you please try to stop bashing them every time, in every way? Please, it would be healthy at least.
TIA |
| September 10th, 2005 10:23 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Give me another Stones album anytime, Talk Is Cheap was great but Main Offender was mostly boring. |
| September 10th, 2005 10:58 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
ABB friggin' rawks wickahd ahhswum man! |
| September 10th, 2005 11:14 PM |
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| Gazza |
The subject of this thread might make have had some credibility had this been 1992.
However, the number of songs Keith has written in the last 8 years which have been released either by himself or the Stones could be counted on one hand. Its quite obvious to anyone that since BTB, the only one of the Glimmer Twins who is showing any degree of productivity or creativity is Mick.
Ask yourself why, in the eight years that the band were treading water since their last album, Keith was the only member of the band NOT to put together a solo album (Mick did two and, in fact, has done three since "Main Offender"). That statistic, plus the fact that ABB is primarily a Jagger composed album, speaks volumes. Keith, for the most part, has lost his songwriting muse big time over the last decade.
If we were waiting on a Winos album, we might still be holding our breath for it in 2010 or beyond. The answer to the original post is a no-brainer. |
| September 10th, 2005 11:22 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Great and true summary Gazza. |
| September 10th, 2005 11:52 PM |
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| cooper |
I would rather have a new Keith CD ANY day of the week.
I am unsure why keith has not done another CD We all know that keith has enough to put out, hell why not put it on his web page and have you D/L from there? I only bought ABB for the keith tunes. |
| September 11th, 2005 12:42 AM |
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| Zulu Fun Mix |
Keith's dopamine circuits have got to be shot after decades of drinking and drug abuse. That spells the end of motivation. And since he apparently still drinks every day, it's hard to imagine him doing anything other than free-riding on Mick's energy and entrepreneurialism. He does make some important contributions on ABB, no doubt about it. But basically he seems to have lost both muse and drive and is content to coast. If he's in fact trying hard but the creativity just isn't happening it's got to be pretty scary for him. That may well be why he took that cheap shot at Mick's cock. |
| September 11th, 2005 12:53 AM |
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| sirmoonie |
Keith Richards folded his cards 20 years ago. He is a parody of his former self now, and not a very good one. Johnny Depp does a better Keith Richards than Keith Richards.
The ballads on Bango, for chrissakes, I and many others predicted them, right down to the number on the album. He's been droning the same unfinished mopera since I was in high school. Some one cut the guy off! Its not always good to be anywhere! |
| September 11th, 2005 01:39 AM |
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| winter |
i" drunk
[Edited by winter] |
| September 11th, 2005 04:01 AM |
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| 2000monkey |
No one can prove Keith didn't co-write the songs on Bang, just as he said he did. If Beast of Burden which Keith wrote was on Bang, there are those who would claim it was an Alfie outtake.
Keith was never that interested in a solo career in the first place. With the Stones still a regularly touring entity, the novelty of fronting a band has probably worn off.
Keith made a statement with words to the effect that he puts out a song, and he doesn't care if you get it now, ten years from now, or after he's dead. That attitude probably extends to releasing the songs as well. For all anyone knows he regularly plays guitar and sketches out new song ideas with the record button pushed on. After he croaks there will probably be a great public excavation of Keith Richard jams, demos and the like. Like now, Keith will not care. |
| September 11th, 2005 04:27 AM |
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| Navin |
...choice of cancer or polio... |
| September 11th, 2005 06:52 AM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
The subject of this thread might make have had some credibility had this been 1992.
However, the number of songs Keith has written in the last 8 years which have been released either by himself or the Stones could be counted on one hand. Its quite obvious to anyone that since BTB, the only one of the Glimmer Twins who is showing any degree of productivity or creativity is Mick.
Ask yourself why, in the eight years that the band were treading water since their last album, Keith was the only member of the band NOT to put together a solo album (Mick did two and, in fact, has done three since "Main Offender"). That statistic, plus the fact that ABB is primarily a Jagger composed album, speaks volumes. Keith, for the most part, has lost his songwriting muse big time over the last decade.
If we were waiting on a Winos album, we might still be holding our breath for it in 2010 or beyond. The answer to the original post is a no-brainer.
____________________________________________________________________________
To Gazza, and everyone who thinks this album was a one sided affair:
This is rubbish. How the heck do we know who wrote what in the making of this album? RJ seem all Keith based. So does IWTL and LWTCDI. Part of ONNYA, This place is empty was written by Keith an d who knows what eles on there. But again who knows. What we do know is this album is miles away from Goddess. Why? Partly because the Stones are playing the instruments and partly because Mick wrote with Keith. Why do folks act like they know who wrote what. Just because it sounds like it could be on a Jagger solo doesn't mean a damn thing. Everything on this thread is pure speculation. Know one knows who wrote what yet. From what we have read it was very, very, much a joint effort between them two. Nobody makes any reference what so ever that Mick did more writing this time.
* Infact everything that has been disclosed about this albums writing process has been far from this one sided affair people are speaking of. Infact it seems it was nothing like a one sided affair. From everything I have read by the people who were there they wrote more closely together on this album than any song writing they have in 20 years or more. Has everyone forgot all the press comments, insider comments, and comments from the band themselves stating that? Because it seeems alot of people have a selective memory concerning this.
Ian |
| September 11th, 2005 07:46 AM |
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| exile |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
This is rubbish. How the heck do we know who wrote what in the making of this album? ....Why do folks act like they know who wrote what. Just because it sounds like it could be on a Jagger solo doesn't mean a damn thing. Everything on this thread is pure speculation. Know one knows who wrote what yet.
I agree totally
I also think it’s ridiculous to hypothesize that Keith sat back and let Mick write all the songs.
Firstly because I think Keith has too much pride and ego, and jealousy of Mick to sit back and let Mick run the whole album.
Secondly it’s all crappy hearsay speculation based on nothing. If someone had solid proof then that’s one thing, but don’t give us analysis of chords structure on olds and new songs like that’s some kind of concrete proof. It’s ludicrous.
Its clear to me that some of you wont be happy with what ever the stones do, and feel you know what they should sound like more than them. Its boring reading, and frankly Im sick of defending an album that I really enjoy. Why should I, I don’t know.
For some of you I guess you really cant get no satisfaction.
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| September 11th, 2005 09:02 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
Ian and Exile, to answer your question -- "How the hell do you know who wrote what?" -- check out this thread:
http://www.novogate.com/board/968/215598-1.html |
| September 11th, 2005 10:21 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
exile wrote:
Secondly it’s all crappy hearsay speculation based on nothing. If someone had solid proof then that’s one thing, but don’t give us analysis of chords structure on olds and new songs like that’s some kind of concrete proof. It’s ludicrous.
It's not just "speculation based on nothing." There are telltale signs of when Mick wrote something completely, the most dependable of which is the amount of guitar he plays on a given song. If Keith is doing nothing more than playing lead fills -- as on "Undercover of the Night," "Sad, Sad, Sad," "Hearts for Sale," "Highwire," "Gunface" and "Oh No, Not You Again" -- it's a good bet that Mick wrote the song.
Other times, it's more vague. I'm guessing that Mick wrote "Look What the Cat Dragged In" because Keith would never use an Eb chord - at least not the Keith of the last 30 years. That may sound "ludicrous," but you can look it up...
As for Keith pliantly letting Mick "run the album," who knows. Maybe he feels like he came up with five songs, two for which he wrote the lyrics and melody. In the old days, that was half of an album.... I'm sure he had a lot of other ideas, but my hunch is that Keith doesn't follow through on all of them, whereas Mick does. They were under a tight timeline to finish "Bang," and to the most prepared goes the spoils. |
| September 11th, 2005 10:31 AM |
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| exile |
point taken Mel Belli 
I don’t necessarily agree but I appreciate you taking the time to explain your point clearly.
I also understand your not complaining about ABB, if you are correct Mick carries the band with Ronnie in rehab, Charlie very ill through much of the initial recordings, and Keith being the lackey.
Then in my opinion Mick deserves a pat on the back for a fine album in my opinion.
Cheers
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| September 11th, 2005 11:02 AM |
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
Navin wrote:
...choice of cancer or polio...
lol |
| September 11th, 2005 11:37 AM |
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| 72Tele |
Put me down for Keith and Polio. |
| September 11th, 2005 11:47 AM |
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| Zulu Fun Mix |
Don't forget that Mick effectively acknowledged he was the primary author of most of the ABB songs in that *Guardian* interview. When the interviewer suggested it, Mick said "it wouldn't be polite of me to say," or words to that effect. Now, he does a great job on a lot of these songs, and you can't blame him if Keith and Ronnie aren't as energetic and prolific. But you *can* blame him for not bringing in just a couple of other musicians (guitarists or saxophonists) to make up the slack, and you can certainly blame him for self-indulging with "Streets of Love" and making an otherwise potentially great song like "Biggest Mistake" sickeningly sweet.
I think it's constructive to criticize Stones albums even if you generally like them. After all the criticism heaped on B2B, they made major changes. They paid attention. So maybe after these much milder criticisms of ABB, they'll make future adjustments of a fan-pleasing nature. In contrast, sycophancy is just stupid and pointless. |
| September 11th, 2005 12:10 PM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Mel Belli wrote:
Ian and Exile, to answer your question -- "How the hell do you know who wrote what?" -- check out this thread:
http://www.novogate.com/board/968/215598-1.html
___________________________________________________________________________
I don't get it. Thank you for the thread and all but it was just another speculation thread. I did check it out though. Still it doesn't change anything here.
Ian |
| September 11th, 2005 12:46 PM |
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| Taptrick |
Although I like some of Keith's solo work all I hear is lung puss when he sings now. I don't find it music to my ears to hear vibrating phlem when he sings. When he really belts out a tune this seems to be minimized and I find it more tolerable than when he sings slower and softer and the phlem is more noticeable. For example, I hear it more on This Place than on Infamy. I'll take a Stones album first any day. But, of course I would buy the Keith album. There's bound to be something good on it. I wonder how Keith would sound fronting a band with a different vocalist than Mick, ala Trower Santana, Beck, Van Halen.
[Edited by Taptrick] |
| September 11th, 2005 12:57 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
To Gazza, and everyone who thinks this album was a one sided affair:
This is rubbish. How the heck do we know who wrote what in the making of this album? RJ seem all Keith based. So does IWTL and LWTCDI. Part of ONNYA, This place is empty was written by Keith an d who knows what eles on there. But again who knows. Ian
if youre saying "but again who knows", then how do YOU know what we said was "rubbish"? Thats a contradiction.
I prefer to go by what was stated by people with a better trained ear than me as to the style in which these guys write. Also, by the personnel breakdowns of each instrument on each song - eg, Matt Clifford's involvement on a song would indicate its a Mick song as would the amount of guitar Mick is playing on it.
I'm not suggesting that keith had nothing at all to do with the writing and arrangement of the vast majority of the songs on this record, but the basic ideas and structures of most of what was released would appear to come from Mick, even if there was some collaboration at some stage on many of the songs
For what its worth, I love both of Keith's solo albums. I prefer both them to any of Mick's, especially "Main Offender" which I think is a gem of an album. I also think that its better than any album the Stones released in the period between Tattoo You and Bridges.
However, he has come up with very little since BTB, hence my point about it "not being 1992" anymore.
Personally, I couldnt care less who wrote the songs on the new Stones album. The bottom line is that I like it, and I certainly do. However, I think its hard to argue that Jagger is the driving creative force in the band these days. You can speculate all you like as to why that is (I think Zulu's theory sounds logical), but the evidence is there.
He can still cut it occasionally, though, theres no doubt. "This Place is Empty" is excellent as is "Rough Justice"
[Edited by Gazza] |
