|
|
| patioaintdry |
Goin nuts -- need some discussion on:
12 X 5
Rolling Stones, Now
Aftermath (UK)
Between the Buttons (UK)
London Years Singles Collection
BB
LIB
Ya-Ya's
Remastered Singles Collection appears to have the organ intro, not the guitar for Time Is On My Side. I'm pretty sure it was the guitar previously. The version on Remastered 12 X 5 also seems organ. Where's the remastered guitar intro? And is it in stereo?
Remastered Singles also appears to have the mono SFM single, not the pounding Stereo on BB. Is this correct? Is this how it was on previous London Years? All of the Satanic entries are also mono as well as the YCAGWYW.(Still has no choir beginning). Did I just not pay close enough attention on the old copy? I got rid of ALL of my old ABKCO's about a month ago in anticipation of the new versions, so no reference available.
The stereo versions of Mothers Little Helper, The long Out of Time, additions of Backstreet Girl and such on Aftermath and Buttons are STUNNING!!! Stereo versions of Around and Around, Heart of Stone, It's All Over Now, What a Shame, etc. are AMAZING!!! Parachute Woman and You Got The Silver on BB and LIB respectively are DYNAMITE!!!
Englands Newest Hitmakers is on backorder for me, so can whoever has it tell me if "Tell Me" is the long version?
Ya-Ya's has no dramatic improvements, although the snare seems to be a bit crisper and the bass is up a bit. Also, the transition from Rambler to SFTD is better.
Please share your observations and if I'm wrong on any of my impressions I expect to be roundly insulted and questioned about my Stones knowledge like only this board can do.
Oh, and playback was on regular CD with headphones, not SACD.
|
|
|
| dkmonroe |
Here's the website you need to determine what version's on what CD:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=524914
There's a link on that page that has a chart showing whether the mono or the stereo version is on a particular CD. Basically, all the tracks on the Singles Collection are mono, except the few later singles that were only released in stereo.
The "guitar" version of Time Is On My Side is apparently available on Hot Rocks. I don't own it, but I've read listener reviews which stated that Hot Rocks was restored to its original form, with the guitar version of TIOMS. The implication was that the 1986 ABCKO CD version had the organ version.
|
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
There is an old saying......Consider the source! How much improvement can we really expect outta 25/30/35 year old master tapes? I mean there is only so much one can do where this is concerned no? And I still stand by the assumption that Jagger& Richards intended those songs to heard as we first heard them at the time. If we are really Stones fans, do we need those songs improved on?...I say ...NO! |
|
|
| Scot Rocks |
quote:
The "guitar" version of Time Is On My Side is apparently available on Hot Rocks. I don't own it, but I've read listener reviews which stated that Hot Rocks was restored to its original form, with the guitar version of TIOMS. The implication was that the 1986 ABCKO CD version had the organ version.
Just to confirm yes that is correct the guitar version is on Hot Rocks and it imao much better than the organ one.
Mark |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
I agree Scot! The guitar only version is much better than that organ version, which leads me to ask; why did they bother with that organ version? Still I suppose some people liked it. |
|
|
| patioaintdry |
dkonroe -- thanks for the link!
Gypsymofo60 wrote:
"And I still stand by the assumption that Jagger& Richards intended those songs to heard as we first heard them at the time. If we are really Stones fans, do we need those songs improved on?...I say ...NO!"
Now that's what I was looking for -- questioning my Stones bonafides!! I'm certainly not doubting the intentions of Jagger/Richards, just looking for the absolutely best sound available. Especially the early stuff -- i'm pretty sure the Stones did not have much production and creative muscle to flex in the early days -- they just cut tracks in the studio and heard them on the radio 2 weeks later. Keith alludes to this in the current Guitar Player interview discussing Satisfaction. I think given the choice, we'd all opt for the soundboard versions of Brussells and Handsome Girls, etc. over audience recordings ...RIGHT?
|
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Patio, I know bootlegs have always been popular amongst Stones devotees, but seriously, I gave up on them 20 years ago. I always found them disapointing. Regardless of the studio twinkling connected to the official 'LIVE' releases, I'll take 'Ya Yas' & 'Love You Live' over 'Liver Than You'll Ever Be' any day. |
|
|
| patioaintdry |
Gypsymofo60, I hear you on quality, especially Liver, but HIGHLY recommend Live at Leeds, Brussels, Philly Special, Handsome Girls, Hampton '81 and many others. They are fantastic performances and sound. They stand right along side Ya-Ya's and in many cases far surpass the official releases. You'd be surprised how far the quality has come in 20 years. |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
patioaintdry wrote:
Gypsymofo60, I hear you on quality, especially Liver, but HIGHLY recommend Live at Leeds, Brussels, Philly Special, Handsome Girls, Hampton '81 and many others. They are fantastic performances and sound. They stand right along side Ya-Ya's and in many cases far surpass the official releases. You'd be surprised how far the quality has come in 20 years.
.....Can't argue with that Patio! I'll have to check with Corgi, or Stoned in OZ on where to get bootlegs in OZ. I've heard good reports before about Leeds. |
|
|
| Riffhard |
Yes gypsymofo do check out some Get Your Leeds Lungs Out,but,also check out Handsome Girls,and A Brussels Affair.These are all superb as are the aformentioned Hampton '81 and Philly Special.You will not be disappointed.A word of warning though.Once you aquire these gems you will become a boot junkie.There so many great ones out there these days!
Riffhard
[Edited by Riffhard] |
|
|
| Stonesprofessor |
Gypsy- The point about these remasters is that,up to now, this stuff HASNT sounded like it was originally intended! I literally have been listening to this stuff for 30[!!]years, and it has NEVER sounded any better in ANY format..and thats allowing for 30 years worth of hearing degeneration! Example #1: The Chess Studios tracks on 12X5-Up to now,the full bodied STEREO versions of these tracks have never seen the light of day..and let me tell you, it makes SUCH a big difference! The original 'stereo' releases was what London Records used to call: 'Electronically Re-channeled Stereo',which as far as I can tell, was taking the mono masters,and just mirroring it-which makes the track lose a LOT of the dynamics that were present..now all of those tracks are full bodied and much much crisper-you can actually HEAR Charlies drums...the full texture of the bass..plus,of course,the inclusion of the full blown long version of 2120,a TRUE partially 'lost' classic. What happened when ABKCO originally issued the CDs back in 86-87 was that they kind of rushed the product out, and used a LOT of the BAD complete album masters..instead of using the original SOURCE masters, as they have [apparently] done here. For Aftermath and Buttons they REALLY screwed up and [also apparently]incredibly used complete MONO masters for these albums..so these albums in particular are amazingly transformed and improved..especially since they actually made the British versions available...which is the way the Stones 'really' wanted them...... |
|
|
| Stonesthrow |
Professor-- I have the German Decca UK version of Aftermath circa 1985. It sounds very good. Are you saying that the new SACD is better than that version (we all know the ABKCO U.S. versions back then were substandard)? Note that I do not have an SACD player nor the proper type of receiver for proper SACD hookup. If and when I get them, I would hope the SACD would be superior, but that hasn't happened yet.
I have also A-B'd Beggar's Banquet and Let It Bleed SACDs with my German Decca versions. There is some improvement on some songs but not uniformly throughout each album. Some songs are improved while others really aren't. On the Bleed SACD, there is also very little time between tracks. On my German Decca of Bleed, there is enough time between songs to take a piss break. Next, I'm going to A-B Out Of Our Heads and Buttons (SACDs are the UK versions).
I also did an A-B between my UK Aftermath and Mickboy's Only When It's Frozen. I couldn't find any appreciable difference there either. Either I'm going deaf, dumb, and blind (my name is not Tommy), or those German Decca cds from the '80s were significantly better than the ABKCO versions.
I don't know about everywhere else, but in my area, the SACDs of the really early stuff flew off the shelves and is not even available. ENH, 12 x 5, Now!, December's Children, Flowers, Buttons, and UK Aftermath are like faint memories. On the other hand, we have Hot Rocks, Metamorphosis, High Tide, and Darkly coming out our ears.
Is that happening everywhere else too?
|
|
|
| Sir Stonesalot |
Yup. The early stuff went fast. |
|
|
| Soul Survivor |
Gypsy, check out "Houston '78", "Jersey Devil", and "Ft. Worth '72" |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
Stonesthrow: It's a well known fact that German pressings have always been superior, that goes back to vinyl. The machines they press on are superior. If given a choice I always pick The German version. |
|
|
| Stonesthrow |
Gypsymofo-- That's a reason why I got the German versions in the first place. However, the question still stands. Has anyone A-B'd German Decca vs. SACD? If so, did they find SACD to be superior when played on non-SACD equipment? For that matter, what about when played on SACD equipment? There needs to be enough incentive to shell out the big bucks to replace all the stuff I have now. I already did that once going from vinyl to cd. |
|
|
| egon |
it's not only the player.
if you have crappy speakers, you won't hear much of a difference between sacd and normal.
i'm sure you'll hear the difference between the 'old' and 'new' versions, but to fully enjoy the sacd format, you need to spend some money on your stereo.
just buying the sacd player won't do it. |
|
|
| Stonesprofessor |
Guaranteed that ABKCO over-pressed Metamorphosis..it being the only 'new' release..that'll be the one 'remaster' that oull find heavily discounted in time.... |
|
|
| Stonesprofessor |
The point is..again...unless you are a really nutso Stones fan,and wanted to over-pay for an import [I ALMOST paid $25 on eBay for one right before the ABKCO announcement],the German CDs have been pretty much unavailable due to stricter trade laws..you USED to be able to get the imported Aftermath LP pretty easily back in late '70s,for example..but then a new law came into being basically giving the 'local' record companies exclusivity..PLUS..in about 5-7 years when you have an SACD player in your car,bedroom,etc...youll have these versions already... |
|
|
| gypsymofo60 |
quote:
Stonesthrow wrote:
Gypsymofo-- That's a reason why I got the German versions in the first place. However, the question still stands. Has anyone A-B'd German Decca vs. SACD? If so, did they find SACD to be superior when played on non-SACD equipment? For that matter, what about when played on SACD equipment? There needs to be enough incentive to shell out the big bucks to replace all the stuff I have now. I already did that once going from vinyl to cd.
....My sentiments exactly! I live in Australia though Prof', SACD, to my knowlege it aint even available here yet, and even if it were, as you say shelling out to replace your collection twice in one lifetime seems a bit much. As crappy as the Abcko originals are, I spent so many years listening to scratched, distorted vinyl that even today it still seems like a massive improvement. Australian vinyl & CD has always been really inferior, I too go for The German product when I can find it.."Got in himmel"! |
|
CHAT ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [
RESTROOMS]