ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Licks World Tour 2002 - 2003


Shepherds Bush Empire, London - December 11, 2001
By Richard Young

WEBRADIO CHANNELS:
[Ch1: Sike-ay-delic 60's] [Random Sike-ay-delia] [Ch3: British Invasion]

[THE WET PAGE] [IORR NEWS] [IORR TOUR SCHEDULE] [SETLISTS 62-99] [THE A/V ROOM] [THE ART GALLERY] [MICK JAGGER] [KEITHFUCIUS] [CHARLIE WATTS ] [RON WOOD] [BRIAN JONES] [MICK TAYLOR] [BILL WYMAN] [IAN STEWART ] [NICKY HOPKINS] [MERRY CLAYTON] [IAN 'MAC' McLAGAN] [BERNARD FOWLER] [LISA FISCHER] [DARRYL JONES] [BOBBY KEYS] [JAMES PHELGE] [CHUCK LEAVELL] [LINKS] [PHOTOS] [MAGAZINE COVERS] [MUSIC COVERS ] [JIMI HENDRIX] [BOOTLEGS] [TEMPLE] [GUESTBOOK] [ADMIN]

[CHAT ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [RESTROOMS]

NEW: SEARCH ZONE:
Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist an start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED) inside.
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:

PicoSearch

ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: What I Know About Keith Return to archive Page: 1 2
08-25-02 09:15 PM
lucasd4 Here are some things I know about Keith...and most of you know it too...you just don't want to admit it

1. He's become a poser onstage...he kicks his legs, flails his arms, mugs with the camera, smokes, jokes around with Ronnie and Charlie, plays the piano with his feet, and just about everything else except play the guitar anymore...

2. He's no longer the musical engine onstage...he has allowed the keyboards, horns, and background singers to take center stage musically while he coasts with his guitar playing...barely playing...just a lick here and there in between all the posing and posturing

3. He's no longer a rhythm guitar monster...his live playing up through the late 70's was ferocious....his rhythm guitar was front and center--driving the music...it was always there...no big gaps and pauses where nothing is going on...his was constantly strumming those strings....none of this weaving nonsense...and it's not just because Taylor left...he was still playing great with Ronnie on the first couple of tours together...nowadays, there are long periods of time when he's not even playing at all...that solid, wall of guitar sound is just not there...it's been replaced with keyboards and horns

4. He's become a boring balladeer...how many of these boring, repetitious ballads is he going to do?? He's redone "Coming Down Again" at least ten times now..."How Can I Stop" is the worst yet...and what does he come up with for FORTY LICKS?? Yet another one of these...whatever happened to the Keith sung rockers??

5. He's become a celebrity schmoozer...he seems to show up at every movie premiere, tribute event, and celebrity party that's given nowadays...he's a bigger jet setter than Mick was in the 70's

6. He's wasted his best musical ideas of the past 15 years on solo albums...his best riffs, melodies, etc. were wasted on solo albums that nobody heard except die-hards

7. He ruined B2B, not Mick...He contributed three of his lamest songs ever to the album, while criticizing Mick's work with the Dust Bros...he failed to come up with one good riff on the album...his guitar sound was tiny and weak on every song he played on...and don't blame the producers...Keith obviously approved of it because it got released

8. He let Liam Gallagher's public fight challenge to him go completely unchallenged, and even backed down from Elton John after Elton's "arthritic monkey" comments
08-25-02 09:48 PM
full moon I respect your opinion , but disagree ..
08-25-02 09:50 PM
Honky Tonk Man I agree on some points. He is not the guitarist he was 20 years ago. Hes not a youngster anymore. He sure plays better then alot of them though. I think hes great. He makes me smile whenever i hear him!

Alex
08-25-02 09:54 PM
Soul Survivor NOTE: MY COMMENTS ARE IN BETWEEN THE STARS
==========================================


1. He's become a poser onstage...he kicks his legs, flails his arms, mugs with the camera, smokes, jokes around with Ronnie and Charlie, plays the piano with his feet, and just about everything else except play the guitar anymore...

***So you're saying you wanna see him just stand still?***

2. He's no longer the musical engine onstage...he has allowed the keyboards, horns, and background singers to take center stage musically while he coasts with his guitar playing...barely playing...just a lick here and there in between all the posing and posturing

***Ok, lets take Keith out of every song performed and see how it sounds....***

3. He's no longer a rhythm guitar monster...his live playing up through the late 70's was ferocious....his rhythm guitar was front and center--driving the music...it was always there...no big gaps and pauses where nothing is going on...his was constantly strumming those strings....none of this weaving nonsense...and it's not just because Taylor left...he was still playing great with Ronnie on the first couple of tours together...nowadays, there are long periods of time when he's not even playing at all...that solid, wall of guitar sound is just not there...it's been replaced with keyboards and horns

***Keith Richards is Keith Richards. He's still the same player from the 70's, he's just adapted a bit different style***

4. He's become a boring balladeer...how many of these boring, repetitious ballads is he going to do?? He's redone "Coming Down Again" at least ten times now..."How Can I Stop" is the worst yet...and what does he come up with for FORTY LICKS?? Yet another one of these...whatever happened to the Keith sung rockers??

***If you have a problem with the ballads, don't listen to them***

5. He's become a celebrity schmoozer...he seems to show up at every movie premiere, tribute event, and celebrity party that's given nowadays...he's a bigger jet setter than Mick was in the 70's

***Why do you care? You would want to if you could....at least I would***

6. He's wasted his best musical ideas of the past 15 years on solo albums...his best riffs, melodies, etc. were wasted on solo albums that nobody heard except die-hards

***That's just stupid***

7. He ruined B2B, not Mick...He contributed three of his lamest songs ever to the album, while criticizing Mick's work with the Dust Bros...he failed to come up with one good riff on the album...his guitar sound was tiny and weak on every song he played on...and don't blame the producers...Keith obviously approved of it because it got released

***"Low Down" has a weak guitar sound?***

8. He let Liam Gallagher's public fight challenge to him go completely unchallenged, and even backed down from Elton John after Elton's "arthritic monkey" comments

***So?***

[Edited by Soul Survivor]
08-25-02 09:57 PM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy Piss off! If I had arthritis so that I couldn't take off my ring I'd cut back on the playing too - I don't think he doesn't *play* much anymore, I think the way it's organized is such that his guitar and Ronnie's are turned down to make way for annoying Bernard Fowler who needs to shut up and get a solo carrer going - he'd make millions, and more importantly, stop singing with the Stones. Why doesn't Keith answer arguements? Because he doesn't need to. Pissy little Noel Gallegher got put in his whiny little place by George Harrison in the 90s - Keith sees no need to reiterate in general what pathetic sycophants and whiny kids Oasis are as people, nor their relative lack of musicality and sparsness of genuine good music in their entire history - it's been done before, by someone it matters more to hear it from - the guy they ripped off.

"How Can I Stop"? Terrible? Where do you get your ears examined? Keith's three songs were wonderful - I don't agree with the overdubbed drum thing or the placement of "Thief In The Night", but alone it's a nice song. And all three of them beat "Might As Well Get Juiced", "Out Of Control" and "Already Over Me", not to mention the sickening "Anybody Seen My Baby?".

So yes, Keith has been more relaxed these past few years live - I think he's rather bemused by how seriously Mick takes it. And I think, judging by the quality of "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" (what little I could hear of it), he's coming back to form - these last few times he hasn't tried as much because he hasn't seen the need - poor Ronnie and all. Now that he feels that difference as he said in the interviews, he'll be much more into it, back on his feet.

And he hasn't released an 'official' type solo album since '92. So where have all those good riffs been going if not into imaginary solo albums? Answer - they're on those recent albums - sometimes you just have to look for them.

-tSYX --- Get a job, Bernard Fowler!
08-25-02 10:01 PM
Boomhauer I don't get it. Do people here(and at other message boards) just want to start things or something? I mean, is this a place for people to bitch, complain, try to tell shitty facts, and just be dang old boring?

I mean, at the IORR message board, some person wrote a topic titled "I don't want 40 Licks." I say, just fucking don't buy it and don't start a topic that is pointless.

This guy here is saying things about Keith because he wants Keith to be different for some fucking reason. You don't like the way Keith acts of stage, well, too bad. He's gonna smoke, gonna kick, and talk to Ron on stage. WHy the hell not? Does it bother you? Do you really get so angry and whiney because he does that stuff? I say move on and think about something else.

08-25-02 10:01 PM
Soul Survivor
quote:

Savage: Bernard Fowler who needs to shut up and get a solo carrer going


Not to get off topic, but didn't Bernie release a solo album?
[Edited by Soul Survivor]
08-25-02 10:26 PM
BILL PERKS LOWDOWN,TOO TIGHT AND FLIP THE SWITCH ARE THE BEST SONGS ON B2B,YOU FUCKING PRAT.HIS BALLADS ON RECORD ARE FINE,BUT HE KEEPS MAKING THIS ANNOYING RIGHT FIST ACROSS CHEST MOTION TO EMOTE THAT IS GETTING REAL OLD.HE HARDLY PLAYS AT TIMES BUT ON SOME SONGS LIKE GIMME SHELTER AND OTHERS HE'S AS SOLID AS EVER.KEITH IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE MAN,I JUST WISH HE'D CONCENTRATE MORE ON THE GUITAR ON STAGE THAN POSING.
08-25-02 10:34 PM
full moon Keith's songs really represent the Sones as a whole. His songs are flavored with blues, r+b, jazz, rock, reggae, and country. I think they are quite excellent. As far as some of the other points(Elton John, Posing, etc..) who cares.
08-25-02 10:51 PM
riverrat You're a bit hard on him.
Everytime his fingers slap the strings a beautiful sound comes out. Resonating throughout the venue...only experiance can produce that. It's like an artist. Take Andrew Wyeth(great American painter,name is in the dictionary) when he was young, he labored over technique with a myriad of crosshatched brushstrokes(detail) to achieve satisying results. Now-a-days he has a free swashbuckling flair and achieves the intended result. Fine and clean.
Keith is an artist.
If I had the money, I'd attend the fashion and Equestrian shows in the Hamptons as well.
08-25-02 11:17 PM
The Worst lucasd4, I agree with you. I'm bored with all the Stones-fans idolizing Keith and bashing Mick. I think, that the guitar-sound on Bridges isn't that bad because of Ronnie.
08-25-02 11:34 PM
Memory Motel Hi lucasd4
Ok,who asked you to post this shitty message,Mick or Elton????

Take it easy
08-26-02 03:33 AM
Mathijs >lucasd4, I agree with you. I'm bored with all the Stones->fans idolizing Keith and bashing Mick. I think, that the >guitar-sound on Bridges isn't that bad because of Ronnie.

Ronnie hardly plays on the album. Most of the second guitar parts you hear is Waddy Wachtell.

Mathijs
08-26-02 05:56 AM
egon this is too much shit for me to take on a monday morning!!!
08-26-02 06:49 AM
luxury1 Man, I thought I had a headache when I woke up--it's worse now! But lucasd4 has some valid points that he could post if he so wishes. And I think Keith has always been a little mean to Mick--and Mick has always wanted to be "naturally" cool like Keith--they truly remind me of brothers--
Bernard Fowler has released some solo stuff with Stevie Salas (who recently played guitar on Mick's live GID shows)in a band called Nickelbag. Heavy guitar rock-n-roll--bernard is pretty good on them--but I don't think anyone on this board will be rushing out to buy them!!
08-26-02 08:45 AM
lucasd4 [quote]Soul Survivor wrote:
NOTE: MY COMMENTS ARE IN BETWEEN THE STARS
==========================================


***So you're saying you wanna see him just stand still?***


You can move around without kicking your legs and flailing your arms...get a copy of LADIES AND GENTLEMAN and see Keith in action...he walked around, gyrated to the music, but he didn't have all the exagerrated, cartoonish moves that he has today...the focus was on playing the guitar and driving the music along...


***Ok, lets take Keith out of every song performed and see how it sounds....***


You could do that with A LOT of the Stones live music during the past 20 years, and you wouldn't notice a big difference...the only time he really plays anymore is on the B-stage...he was awesome on "Midnight Rambler" during the NO SECURITY tour B-stage set...he was great during the Paradiso show too...but 90% of the time, he's coasting nowadays



***Keith Richards is Keith Richards. He's still the same player from the 70's, he's just adapted a bit different style***



If you believe that all he's done is adapted, then you're not listening nor are you watching....like I said, check out LADIES AND GENTLEMEN....that's the Keith Richards that influenced a generation


***If you have a problem with the ballads, don't listen to them***


Don't worry, I don't..."Slipping Away" is the only good one of the past 20 years..."The Worst" is okay, but it's really just "You Got The Silver" with different lyrics....

***Why do you care? You would want to if you could....at least I would***


I probably would...Mick Jagger did and still does...my problem with Keith is that he used to ridicule Jagger for it in the 70's and 80's and now he does it himself...

***That's just stupid***

It's not stupid....it's true...Keith used his best stuff at the time for TALK IS CHEAP, and STEEL WHEELS suffered as a result...the only good riff on it is "Rock and a Hard Place" and that's a ripoff of "It Must BE Hell" and "Soul Survivor" Same thing with MAIN OFFENDER and VOODOO LOUNGE



***"Low Down" has a weak guitar sound?***

You only give one example...the best guitar sound on the album...and yes, it's weak compared to his usual sound..."Flip the Switch" has such a tiny, thin guitar tone it doesn't even sound like Keith...Ronnie outshines him on rhythm guitar in "Saint of Me" and Jagger outshines him in "Gunface."

08-26-02 09:02 AM
lucasd4 [quote]Boomhauer wrote:
I don't get it. Do people here(and at other message boards) just want to start things or something? I mean, is this a place for people to bitch, complain, try to tell shitty facts, and just be dang old boring?

I mean, at the IORR message board, some person wrote a topic titled "I don't want 40 Licks." I say, just fucking don't buy it and don't start a topic that is pointless.

This guy here is saying things about Keith because he wants Keith to be different for some fucking reason. You don't like the way Keith acts of stage, well, too bad. He's gonna smoke, gonna kick, and talk to Ron on stage. WHy the hell not? Does it bother you? Do you really get so angry and whiney because he does that stuff? I say move on and think about something else.



Most people here don't have a problem with whining and complaining when it's directed at Jagger....there is very little tolerance around here for any negative comments about Keith however...people are so "Blinded By Love" for him and his image that they make excuses for him, justify wrongs as rights, ignore his faults, etc.

08-26-02 09:27 AM
Scottfree Just watch the DVD video of B2B from St Louis, he plays his ass off, I watched him the entire time!
08-26-02 09:34 AM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy Now, lucasd, you make a few interesting points - but Bridges in the end is a matter of opinion - Waddy Waschel is the one playing guitars, not Ronnie - Ronnie was two thousand light years from home when this album was being made. So if you don't like Keith's ballads, that's a matter of opinion - I must say I'd like to hear him do another straight-up rocker, even something simple like "Wanna Hold You". But I think he's been sounding better and better - I think the Keith you're talking about is "Stripped"-era Keith. As for the Concert at NYC, he just showed up, wasn't on the list, didn't have a guitar... just a gesture of respect since Mick got invited and he didn't.

Or, as certain posters will crucify me for saying... I've got to admit, it's getting better, a little better, all the time! (Can't get any worse!)

And I like "Don't Stop". Reallly like it. Takes the best of "Goddess" (and the best was few and far between!) and gives it a good injection of prime Keith Swiss-reprocessed blood.

And in eight days we'll know for certain how he's doing. I have high hopes, listening to the new material.

-tSYX --- And the only thing blah blah blah blah tongue... Don't stop!
08-26-02 09:38 AM
Boomhauer

lucasd4, you got a point there. I never complain about Jagger at all because I think he fucking rules.
08-26-02 09:40 AM
jb I agree with some of what you say. The Chuck/keith piano thing has got to go..realy corny!
Musically, none of the members sound like they did in the 70's or early 80's. The intensity of Keith's rhythm guitar on boots like "Brussels""Leeds" etc is truly wicked. Nothing like the weak guitar mix today.
And you are dead on about the ballads....particularly in concert..absolutely brutal and somewhat embarrassing...
08-26-02 12:48 PM
ERWAN Hi everybody!!!

Soul Survivor is right,right and right!!!!! The way Keith plays guitar is purely fantastic!He' the Rock'n'Roll.Of course it's completely different than in 72 but he's 30 anymore!Stop staying asleep on the 68-73 Stones area;Keith has broad-minded and the Stones too.Each area is different;you can't compare a Stone Touring Party with a No Security Tour!It would be fucked up!
I don't want anybody to piss on Keith again.Please,Lucasd4,
some respect for keith!!
08-26-02 12:57 PM
lucasd4
quote:
ERWAN wrote:
Hi everybody!!!

Soul Survivor is right,right and right!!!!! The way Keith plays guitar is purely fantastic!He' the Rock'n'Roll.Of course it's completely different than in 72 but he's 30 anymore!Stop staying asleep on the 68-73 Stones area;Keith has broad-minded and the Stones too.Each area is different;you can't compare a Stone Touring Party with a No Security Tour!It would be fucked up!
I don't want anybody to piss on Keith again.Please,Lucasd4,
some respect for keith!!





I do respect Keith...he is the SOUL of the Stones...Mick is the heart...together they are the greatest songwriting partnership of all time...Keith is my favorite guitar player of all time too...I know how great he can be and his work of the past 20 years is very sub-par, IMO...This is what frustrates me so much...I'm tired of people constantly bashing Jagger and blaming him entirely for everything they percieve to be wrong with the Stones...Keith deserves just as much credit AND blame as Mick does...I'm also tired of Keith running his mouth when he doesn't back it up anymore...I AM very pleased and impressed with the new song, however...it sounds like the Keith I know and love...I just hope he improves his live playing on this tour
08-26-02 01:15 PM
sirmoonie I agree with 1, 2, and 4. Especially 4. Those trudging rehashed ballads are....trudging rehashed ballads. Although the ones on B2B weren't as bad as some others. Haven't heard his new one, but I'm pretty sure I know what it sounds like.

I don't think any of this is his fault. The man ran out of brain cells several years ago.
08-26-02 01:24 PM
Soul Survivor Mick said Keith's new song is really slow
08-26-02 02:27 PM
gypsy I love Keith! KEITH ROCKS! I think he's witty as fuck, and I love to hear/read anything he says!
08-26-02 04:51 PM
bedspringsonic hi man ! just try to clear yur ears and listen to CYHMK live in toronto!! just hear how JOE SATRIANI play it in the JAGGER'S rehearsals of australia in 1988 ! i'm sorry for yu but i think that yu're not a guitar player and yu can't imagine how KEITH is MAGIC INSTEAD OF YUR GALLA..PAGOS BROTHERS OF SHIT.......
YU're wrong man! but i think i'm loosin my time with yu
don't forget clear yu're ears twice a day !!
cya
08-26-02 08:45 PM
The Worst
quote:
Mathijs wrote:

Ronnie hardly plays on the album. Most of the second guitar parts you hear is Waddy Wachtell.


What about Lowdown, Already Over Me, Gunface, Might As Well Get Juiced, Always Suffering and Too Tight? Ronnie plays a fantastic slide guitar on them. Mick also does a lot of guitar playing on the album.
08-26-02 09:04 PM
Gazza >He let Liam Gallagher's public fight challenge to him go completely unchallenged, and even backed down from Elton John after Elton's "arthritic monkey" comments

Quite why you think any rational human being with any degree of self respect should lower himself into a media pissing contest with those two publicity obsessed wankstains is beyond me..

agree with you on the Mick/Keith credit/blame game thing,though if not on the argument about the calibre of some of his songs.

08-26-02 10:42 PM
Sir Stonesalot So, lucasd...I'm still waiting for all this massive knowledge that you have about Keef....

As far as I'm concerned, you haven't shown us shit.

As soon as you write about 25 gold records, are generally acknowledged as THE rock and roll guitar player, and generate a 40 year career in THE greatest rock band on this or any other planet...then come back and tell us what for with Keef.

Don't like the way he does things now? Boo Hoo. I doubt he's gonna change for you, or ANYONE. He is what he is. Like it or lump it.

Oh, and BTW...I don't even own Talk Is Cheap. The only reason I own Main Offender is that I got it at a yard sale for a quarter. I'm not a big fan of the Winos. There's plenty of Keef stuff that I don't really care much for...but I did like "You Don't Have To Mean It". Just because I don't care for some of his stuff doesn't mean that I would presume to tell him what he should be doing, or how to fucking do it! Keef is da bomb, and dat's da fax Jack!
Page: 1 2


On June 16, 2001 the hit counter of the WET page was inserted here, it had 174,489 hits. Now the hit counter is for both the page and the board. The hit counter of the ITW board had 1,127,645 hits when it was closed and the Coolboard didn't have hit counter but was on line only two months and a half.
Rolling Stones tour 2002 - Rolling Stones World Tour - Rolling Stones on the road