| August 19th, 2005 05:59 PM |
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| wgwalsh |
Gazza, you have written quite an excellent review about the Stones new BANG album. Your method of reviewing this disc should set an example for others to follow.
Thank you for taking the time to participate in this group. Without you, we would not be as informed as we are today. Your selflessness is a tremendous gift that has been bestowed upon you by Jah.
Your review sounds like that you have been around the block a time or two.
I too, also found BABYLON to be one of the band's best pieces of work. BABYLON has stood the test of time and seems to sound better with each subsequent play. It is in heavy rotation in my car's cd changer.
I am looking forward to the September release date with great anticipation, much like when I was a snot nosed kid and SOME GIRLS was rolling out in 1978. Thanks for taking me down that road again...quite refreshing and very humbling. Hard to believe that was 27 years ago.
Hang fire,
wgw |
| August 19th, 2005 07:50 PM |
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| gotdablouse |
Rain Fall Down in good quality here http://novogate.com/board/968/214679-1.html
I'd say 7+ ;-) |
| August 19th, 2005 08:24 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
T&A wrote:
Gazza - got a "methodology" question for you...
You're using a 10-point scale. Your lowest score is a 6. What's the 10 points in relation to? How good a Stones song could be? How good any song could be? Give me an example of a Stones song from the Woody era, say, that would rate a 1 or 2 or 3 or a 4.
Incidentally, if I were using a 10 point schema, I'd rate ONNSOL at 1 (0 if I could go lower).
The way you stack it up, I'm led to believe you think every song on the album is a better than average Stones song - and I can't believe that's your intent.
6 is passable/just about acceptable in Stones terms. Anything less is substandard
A song from the Woody era thats worth a low rating?
Suck On The Jugular (3), Back To Zero (4), Anyway You look At It (2), Winning Ugly (4), Hold Back (1) to name but five of them. Theres maybe a couple more
The Stones rarely do songs that are truly shit, but those five are real clunkers. Generally, even a so-so Stones song is listenable IMO
[Edited by Gazza] |
| August 19th, 2005 08:30 PM |
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| The Wick |
Gazza, I know you said you liked Briges, but wouldn't you put Already Over Me on that list? I reckon SOL gets a 1- worst thing the Stones have ever released and I mean ever. It's good to hear that the rest of the album is sounding good though. Tell me this though, do you think your opinions will be the same in a year or two? Also, I'm interested what you thought of Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love. Although most people slated them, I actually thought they were streets better than the stuff on Bridges. |
| August 19th, 2005 08:32 PM |
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| T&A |
thanks, Gary - that helps me understand where you're coming from. I think you will up the score on RFD and Cat Dragged In with a few more listens. I think these are the true gems on ABB.... |
| August 19th, 2005 08:55 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
T&A wrote:
thanks, Gary - that helps me understand where you're coming from. I think you will up the score on RFD and Cat Dragged In with a few more listens. I think these are the true gems on ABB....
yeah...I guess I will. Cool guitar work on them, eh? Having a higher quality recording helps, too...I just heard Rain Fall Down from the BBC broadcast and it's a good one OK. I found the lyrics to "Cat" a bit hard to catch on the copy I had.
I can see why some people including yourself cant stand ONNYA. I like the tune and the humour in it, but some of the lyrics...bleugh! I think they could have got a REALLY good song out of it with a bit of re-writing though |
| August 19th, 2005 09:13 PM |
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| glencar |
SOL is getting better with some repeat listening. |
| August 19th, 2005 09:15 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
The Wick wrote:
Gazza, I know you said you liked Briges, but wouldn't you put Already Over Me on that list? I reckon SOL gets a 1- worst thing the Stones have ever released and I mean ever. It's good to hear that the rest of the album is sounding good though. Tell me this though, do you think your opinions will be the same in a year or two? Also, I'm interested what you thought of Don't Stop and Keys to Your Love. Although most people slated them, I actually thought they were streets better than the stuff on Bridges.
Already over Me is probably the weakest song on Bridges for me (although to be honest I'm not crazy about Lowdown for some reason..it just sounds like a "Stones by numbers" track to me) but I think they're both "OK".
I thought SOL was a weak song when I first heard it. Its grown on me a bit, and the album version isnt bad. I think the problem is the crushing sense of anti-climax when you're waiting to hear the lead single from the first Stones album in 8 years - and THIS is what you get. If we'd first heard that song where it belongs, on track 5 of a 16 track album, I dont think there'd be the same sense of hostility. Its just an album ballad tucked in there after a few up-tempo numbers which open the album. It just ISNT a single, let alone a first single.
I didnt care much for the 4 songs on 40 licks on first hearing. I thought Dont Stop was a song that the band could have written in their sleep and was a bit of an anti climax after a 5 year wait. It grew on me. I thought it was very good live and got better as the tour went on. Its a good enough track on the record, but nothing wonderful. I didnt care for the other 3 at all when they came out, they sounded completely uninspiring. I warmed to Stealing my Heart a bit, but I still think its ordinary. I still dont rate the other two songs at all.
I dont know what my opinions on ABB will be like by September 5th, let alone in a year or two! However, if the last studio album is anything to go by, I still listen to BTB much more than any album the Stones have done since Tattoo You. I think most of these new songs do stand up to repeated listening, to be honest. That said, I go through spells where I dont listen to the Stones for weeks on end, and then periods where I listen to nothing else...
I came into this album with a totally open mind. I can be incredibly cynical about the Stones as they are now and I'm the first to admit it (more so down to their obsession with money and lack of artistic creativity in recent years than the quality of their records or live shows) but I did think they still had a good (but not great) album in them. More so from Mick's end of things than Keith's. Mick has remained active artistically in recent years whereas Keith had given me little evidence to prove that he wasnt washed up as a writer. Plus the way the album was put together sounded very half-assed over the last year or so, with sporadic and brief recording sessions etc. So, there was an element of pleasant surprise as to what they'd put together |
| August 19th, 2005 09:39 PM |
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| gotdablouse |
Yes, B2B certainly has enough standout tracks to warrant the occasional listen, can't say that much about VL. I'm surprised you'd rate AOM as a low on B2B, the guitars and vocals "the road down to Mexico" are rather good I'd say, much more interesting than "Always Suffering" at least or even "Too Tight", I'd give them both a 4/5 and a 6/7 to AOM.
I think "Streets of Love" really got unfairly trashed, I've always liked it ant the RS.COM MediaPlayer version doesn't hurt. This is a good song with some new phrasing and chord changes. I wasn't around when Goat's Head came out but I can well imagine that Angie got the same "treatment" especially after something like "Tumbling Dice" or the rest of Exile. Talk about an anti-climax, probably worse than our 8 year wait ! |
| August 19th, 2005 09:44 PM |
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| T&A |
Gazza - I have no hatred for ONNYA - I rather like it actually. Don't like RJ much and absolutely loathe ONNSOL, regardless of it being a single or not - couldn't care less about singles, album charting or any of that crap. Most of the stuff I listen to doesn't ever make a blip on a chart. SOL represents everything that can be bad about "pop" music. I find absolutely nothing redeeming in it at all.
I am mystified by the overwhelming positive reaction to RJ. You mentioned your reaction to Lowdown as a "by numbers" tune - I think RJ belongs in that category. I don't hate it, but find it a very disappointing rote rocker.
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| August 19th, 2005 10:18 PM |
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| Steel Wheels |
Rough Justice is a joyous rocker! |
| August 19th, 2005 10:27 PM |
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| glencar |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Yes, B2B certainly has enough standout tracks to warrant the occasional listen, can't say that much about VL. I'm surprised you'd rate AOM as a low on B2B, the guitars and vocals "the road down to Mexico" are rather good I'd say, much more interesting than "Always Suffering" at least or even "Too Tight", I'd give them both a 4/5 and a 6/7 to AOM.
I think "Streets of Love" really got unfairly trashed, I've always liked it ant the RS.COM MediaPlayer version doesn't hurt. This is a good song with some new phrasing and chord changes. I wasn't around when Goat's Head came out but I can well imagine that Angie got the same "treatment" especially after something like "Tumbling Dice" or the rest of Exile. Talk about an anti-climax, probably worse than our 8 year wait !
Great post! I remember Angie being a hit single but I'm a bit young to remember whether or not it was a disappointment after TD. |
| August 19th, 2005 10:29 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
gotdablouse wrote:
Yes, B2B certainly has enough standout tracks to warrant the occasional listen, can't say that much about VL. I'm surprised you'd rate AOM as a low on B2B, the guitars and vocals "the road down to Mexico" are rather good I'd say
maybe its all relative because I dont think BTB has a bad track on it, whereas VL has IMO two or three stinkers (Jugular, Mean disposition) If 'Already over me' had been on DW or was one of the four new songs on 40 licks, it would have been a standout compared to the rest! |
| August 19th, 2005 10:35 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
T&A wrote:
Gazza - I have no hatred for ONNYA - I rather like it actually. Don't like RJ much and absolutely loathe ONNSOL, regardless of it being a single or not - couldn't care less about singles, album charting or any of that crap. Most of the stuff I listen to doesn't ever make a blip on a chart. SOL represents everything that can be bad about "pop" music. I find absolutely nothing redeeming in it at all.
I guess I get the two mixed up as you always refer to SOL as "Oh no, not streets of love" LOL
I feel the same about chart music and barely watch any music channels or listen to much radio anymore myself. What I was trying to get at was that the whole point of releasing a single is to promote and draw attention to the album, so the first single will be the first thing most people (ourselves included) will hear from the new album. Choosing one of the weaker tracks as the lead single gets the album off on the wrong foot and doesnt encourage other people to buy it. There are about 6-7 songs on that album that would have been a better choice as single, from a purely commercial point of view, let alone quality-wise. |
| August 19th, 2005 10:36 PM |
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| glencar |
Mean Disposition is one of the songs from VL I like the most but overall, it's a subpar effort. |
| August 19th, 2005 10:41 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Great post! I remember Angie being a hit single but I'm a bit young to remember whether or not it was a disappointment after TD.
same here (Angie was the first Stones song I ever heard and the promo video was the first time I'd ever seen them - an unusual start!)..
However, as has been pointed out several times, even Exile was seen at the time as a disappointment compared to Sticky Fingers.
Plus, whilst Tumbling Dice was, for me, one of the best singles the band has ever done - Angie was actually a considerably bigger hit.
Back then, though, Stones fans usually only had to wait a year until they got over any disappointment. Its barely comparable to the length of time we wait now. The difference between BTB and ABB is pretty much the same time span as the difference between "Satisfaction" and "Angie" - and look at the body and volume of work they put out in THAT 8 year period between those two. |
| August 19th, 2005 11:30 PM |
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| exile |
I know its such a personal thing...and the subject has been done to death here.
Im sorry, I was very disapointed with Bridges, I dont know how you guys can talk about how good it was. I even tried real hard to like it. but its a lemon.
What was so good about it?
full of fillers, with "saint of me" the only decent track, "anybody seen" was passable. Flick the switch getting my award for the worst, tinniest, track the stones have released.
I remember getting Bridges home (no CD in car in those days) putting it on and listening to the CD, and NOT liking one track.
Voodoo however is much more a stones album with some much more memrable tracks "Love is strong" is still one of my fave stones tracks, sure it had a few fillers 'mean diposition' but overall it stands up better than the bridges album. In my humble opinion.
As we all know thats been done to death so thats the last time i will mention it.....
anyway the new album A Bigger Bang, so far from what I have heard its light years ahead of "Bridges".
"A Bigger bang" I can say that that Im into every thing I have heard so far....this one is looking good.
[Edited by exile] |
| August 19th, 2005 11:55 PM |
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| Zulu Fun Mix |
Agree with Exile, except I consider "Mean Disposition" to be an outstanding track (as is "Suck on the Jugular"). From what I've heard of the new album so far, it sounds like the natural successor to VL, building on that base, with "Bridges" now seeming a strange aberration. |
| August 20th, 2005 12:07 AM |
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| exile |
quote:
Zulu Fun Mix wrote:
From what I've heard of the new album so far, it sounds like the natural successor to VL, building on that base, with "Bridges" now seeming a strange aberration.
I agree totallly  |
| August 20th, 2005 12:24 AM |
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| corgi37 |
I just want this cd now. Now i tells ya. |
| August 20th, 2005 12:30 AM |
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| T&A |
Disposition and Jugular are among the best trax on VL for me, too. go figure.
I got back and forth on VL vs. B2B - don't consider either to be outstanding, but certainly they represent the best since UC. As to where ABB will likely end up? Too early to tell - gonna need to let at least a year to pass before I'll be able make such a judgment. My early impressions of SW,VL and B2B did not turn out to be my final judgments.
[Edited by T&A] |
| August 20th, 2005 03:41 AM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
I thought SOL was a weak song when I first heard it. Its grown on me a bit, and the album version isnt bad. I think the problem is the crushing sense of anti-climax when you're waiting to hear the lead single from the first Stones album in 8 years - and THIS is what you get. If we'd first heard that song where it belongs, on track 5 of a 16 track album, I dont think there'd be the same sense of hostility. Its just an album ballad tucked in there after a few up-tempo numbers which open the album. It just ISNT a single, let alone a first single.
____________________________________________________________________________
Gazza,
I am glad you got to hear the album. When you get the authentic release I think it will only get better in your eye's and I do think this one will age really well. Well I do agree aqbout the topic concerning Streets of Love on one side but not the other. Let me explain myself my good man:
A. I can't agree with you more about alot of folks hostility towards "Street's of Love" due to the fact of most of us Stones Fan's here want something like "Oh-No not you again" to cook our socks off as the first single. I really think it is getting a bad rap because of that, and only that reason. The fact of the matter is it is a good song. It may not be everyone's preference for a Rolling Stones number but a poor song it is not.
B. However I have to strongly disagree with you reguarding SOL not being worthy of a radio single. Realistically the majority of folks in the world are not avid Rolling Stones junkies as us. There are many 20 yeaqr old girls that do not know many of the stones grooves or a hell of alot about them. There are many young men the same way. What would sell to the majority out of the tracks I have heard so far would deinately be Streets of Love. It is radio friendly enough and some-what of a power ballad . It also has a "sing -a- long vibe to it. Rough Justice is a great tune and all but it will not appeal to the masses as SOL would much more. A 20 year young girl to a 70 year old man (I know, that is not too terribly far off from some of the actual fans ages out there) could get into it. It won't take long and Rough Justice are not very Pop radio ready at all especially in today's day and are not supposed to be either. SOL could be played on either a Rock station or it can even slide on a Pop station as well. That is where they are going with this one. It appeals to the masses and is very radio friendly with a real good stick in your head hook....that =single. RJ, IWTL, ONNYA, and BOMH are no where in that category and are not meant to fill those shoes. Sure they may be better in alot of peoples eye's and may be a Stones fan's first choice but remember, more 20 year old girls who are into hip-hop or something buy and download music than 40 or 50 year old men and women who relate to the Stones style so you gotta go with the song that is the most all around radio prone and will appeal to everyone instead of just one or two selec t categories of listeners. IMHO SOL definately fits that category as opposed to the others I have heard thus far. I think that is why the executives and the Stones decided it should be the first single.
Good knowing you love the new album though I tell you that.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen]
[Edited by IanBillen] |
| August 20th, 2005 04:11 AM |
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| beer |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
I hear what you're saying about the logical side breaks being kind of weird, though. The album seems about one song short for peak vinyl sequencing - Streets of Love should wind out side one so that side two can lead with Back of My Hand and end with This Place Is Empty. That way side three could open w/Oh No and end w/Neocon (the CD sequencing puts Neocon very tight on Laugh, which sounds excellent). And one more song between Look What the Cat Dragged in as a side four opener and Driving Too Fast would have even more fully underlined how much Driving Too Fast, this album's final-mick-blast-before-keef -sums-it-all-up-for-you numba, roars. Too bad they didn't toss in a cover in what could have been the "Stop Breaking Down" slot. Oh well.
I agree totally nasty. "Streets" should end side 1.
The blues number BOMH, should introduce side 2, then the logical conclusion to side 2 would be Keef's "this place is empty".. The second record, -side 3-, should start with the upbeat "Oh no not you again", and end with Neo Con. But then yer stuck with 3 songs for side 4. If one of them was a long song it might work, but from what i hear all the songs are in the 4 to 5 minute range.
vinyl dorks unite! 
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| August 20th, 2005 05:13 AM |
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| exile |
quote:
T&A wrote:
As to where ABB will likely end up? Too early to tell - gonna need to let at least a year to pass before I'll be able make such a judgment.
...very true, |
| August 20th, 2005 10:13 AM |
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
beer wrote:
I agree totally nasty. "Streets" should end side 1.
The blues number BOMH, should introduce side 2, then the logical conclusion to side 2 would be Keef's "this place is empty".. The second record, -side 3-, should start with the upbeat "Oh no not you again", and end with Neo Con. But then yer stuck with 3 songs for side 4. If one of them was a long song it might work, but from what i hear all the songs are in the 4 to 5 minute range.
vinyl dorks unite!
-
The Stones used to be the absolute MASTERS of this sort of sequencing. They did it better than the Beatles did, and, well, maybe not Dylan. Seriously, dude, a hip cover on side four is what this album is crying for.
The three song opening side really cocked Voodoo Lounge up, though, and B2B is sequenced all wrong for vinyl. Not that anybody but you and me cares.
Already Over Me is one of my top songs on Bridges - I love the dobro and the weird lead guitar sound, but at the moment it sounds like it's a dry run for Laugh I Nearly Died. Seems like there's a number of elements from their previous post-Steel Wheels albums that crop up here but get used to better effect. |
| August 20th, 2005 11:07 AM |
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| JaggerLips |
FANTASTIC REVIEW GAZZA!!! CAN'T ADD A THING TO THAT OTHER THAN 'RAIN FELL DOWN' IS SUCH A SEXY SONG IT'S UNBELIAVABLE!
I LOOK FORWARD TO GETTING MY HANDS ON THE REAL THING ON MONDAY!
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| August 20th, 2005 11:28 AM |
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| Egbert |
Thanks for the review Gazza. I'm with ya on B2B - although at first I was taken aback by the techno-y sounds, it grows on you with repeated listens.
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| August 20th, 2005 12:06 PM |
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| The Wick |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
Gazza,
I am glad you got to hear the album. When you get the authentic release I think it will only get better in your eye's and I do think this one will age really well. Well I do agree aqbout the topic concerning Streets of Love on one side but not the other. Let me explain myself my good man:
A. I can't agree with you more about alot of folks hostility towards "Street's of Love" due to the fact of most of us Stones Fan's here want something like "Oh-No not you again" to cook our socks off as the first single. I really think it is getting a bad rap because of that, and only that reason. The fact of the matter is it is a good song. It may not be everyone's preference for a Rolling Stones number but a poor song it is not.
B. However I have to strongly disagree with you reguarding SOL not being worthy of a radio single. Realistically the majority of folks in the world are not avid Rolling Stones junkies as us. There are many 20 yeaqr old girls that do not know many of the stones grooves or a hell of alot about them. There are many young men the same way. What would sell to the majority out of the tracks I have heard so far would deinately be Streets of Love. It is radio friendly enough and some-what of a power ballad . It also has a "sing -a- long vibe to it. Rough Justice is a great tune and all but it will not appeal to the masses as SOL would much more. A 20 year young girl to a 70 year old man (I know, that is not too terribly far off from some of the actual fans ages out there) could get into it. It won't take long and Rough Justice are not very Pop radio ready at all especially in today's day and are not supposed to be either. SOL could be played on either a Rock station or it can even slide on a Pop station as well. That is where they are going with this one. It appeals to the masses and is very radio friendly with a real good stick in your head hook....that =single. RJ, IWTL, ONNYA, and BOMH are no where in that category and are not meant to fill those shoes. Sure they may be better in alot of peoples eye's and may be a Stones fan's first choice but remember, more 20 year old girls who are into hip-hop or something buy and download music than 40 or 50 year old men and women who relate to the Stones style so you gotta go with the song that is the most all around radio prone and will appeal to everyone instead of just one or two selec t categories of listeners. IMHO SOL definately fits that category as opposed to the others I have heard thus far. I think that is why the executives and the Stones decided it should be the first single.
Good knowing you love the new album though I tell you that.
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen]
[Edited by IanBillen]
Ian, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion about SOL. I, for one, was actually somewhat pleased they were kicking the album off with a ballad and was not dying for it to be some crunching riff, although I love that as well. In fact, I really thought that it would be their best stuff in ages if they were going to go with the ballad as their opener.
However, SOL fails both for the Stones fan and for the average pop fan, whatever their age. The proof is in the abysmal chart success of SOL. No one has heard it and the few responses I have had from my friends, who listen to all kinds of music, is cynical laughter at my confidence and the resounding opinion is "this song fucking blows." The chorus, although I admit could have been popular, ends up being this pathetic attempt at romance with the guitars raining in the background like some ultra lame attempt to be heavy and trying to copy what is already total shit like Matchbox 20 or some other lame band. If they had at least got it right, we could say, it's shit, but it charted. This way, even the Matchbox 20 fans are laughing at it. After hearing on the radio a few times, I can safely say, this is the worst thing I have ever heard by the Stones. I count all the shite on the other albums like Back to Zero, Already Over Me, etc. in that valuation.
I am happy however that everyone is rating ABB so highly and I can't wait to get it in September. From the clips I heard on Amazon, I think Let Me Down Slow or Laugh, I Nearly Died, would have been much better choices for a single. They sound like quality on those clips, even if they didn't do well. Right now, SOL sounds like shite and it is doing terribly.
Exile, I think you are spot on about VL. I found it to be far superior to Bridges and am hoping that the feel of this album is closer to VL than Bridges.
[Edited by The Wick] |
| August 20th, 2005 12:13 PM |
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| T&A |
Amen, Wick. ONNSOL is so bad that it actually makes me angry. I thought songs like Winning Ugly and Back to Zero would go down in history as the worst the Stones were capable of committing to wax. I was way off. This one makes those songs sound like classics. |
| August 20th, 2005 12:21 PM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
T&A wrote:
Amen, Wick. ONNSOL is so bad that it actually makes me angry. I thought songs like Winning Ugly and Back to Zero would go down in history as the worst the Stones were capable of committing to wax. I was way off. This one makes those songs sound like classics.
Quit yer bitchin'. |
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