| 15th August 2007 11:59 AM |
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| andrews27 |
Does anybody in the wide world understand who he's referring to in history in these famous lines?
'And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reach Bombay'
Been bugging me for 30 years... |
| 15th August 2007 02:24 PM |
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| Gazza |
Probably the Crusaders, who were trying to spread Christianity across Asia
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| 15th August 2007 02:32 PM |
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| gimmekeef |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Probably the Crusaders, who were trying to spread Christianity across Asia
Now years later the Muslims are returning the favor... |
| 15th August 2007 02:49 PM |
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| lotsajizz |
those who followed in Thomas' footsteps...quite trendy at the start of second millenium |
| 15th August 2007 03:21 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
Stones in the Bible?
Wicked as it Seems...
Job 24:14
The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
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| 15th August 2007 03:29 PM |
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| Gazza |
I'd have thought that when 'Thief In The Night' was released, most people would have been aware of it's biblical origins? Maybe I'm wrong... |
| 15th August 2007 03:33 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
Check under your pillow Gazza...
Soften the blow you know...
lol. |
| 15th August 2007 03:58 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Check under your pillow Gazza...
Soften the blow you know...
lol.
Tooth fairy? |
| 15th August 2007 04:04 PM |
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| steel driving hammer |
Peter Pan.
Ain't no fairy, lol. |
| 15th August 2007 04:36 PM |
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| Got Me Rockin |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Probably the Crusaders, who were trying to spread Christianity across Asia
I don't know, Troubadours are people back in the middle ages who sang love songs and things of that nature. |
| 15th August 2007 06:17 PM |
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| fireontheplatter |
good question....
i'm still trying to make sense of....use all you well learnd politics or i'll lay your souls to waste. |
| 15th August 2007 06:48 PM |
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| andrews27 |
I keep thinking that by 'troubadours' he's referring to some 1960s rocker(s) - but I can't think who. Could it be some occult warning to...the Maharishi-obsessed Beatles? (Manager died while they were on retreat, etc.) Comments? |
| 15th August 2007 07:37 PM |
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| Riffhard |
The reference is about the 12th and 13th century troubadors who traveled along the silk road east looking for treasures and singing their particular brand of bawdy love songs etc. Often these singing minstels were abushed along the silk road as they traveled east. The more things change the more they stay the same I suppose,because the troubadors were ambushed by cut throat Muslims on the way to Bombay and points east. They were most often killed or held for ransom. Ransom was rarely paid so the usual outcome was death at the hands of the "religion of peace."
So there you have it. The shining light of Allah was referenced by Jagger long before the problems that the world faces today from these same fucktards.
Riffy |
| 15th August 2007 07:39 PM |
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| Gazza |
wouldnt they more likely be Hindus if they were from Bombay, surely? |
| 15th August 2007 07:44 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
fireontheplatter wrote:
good question....
i'm still trying to make sense of....use all you well learnd politics or i'll lay your souls to waste.
The word is "politesse", not "politics"
As you probably know, the song was inspired by Bulgakov's novel "The Master and Margarita"
That line is taken almost verbatim from the novel
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| 15th August 2007 07:49 PM |
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| fireontheplatter |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
The word is "politesse", not "politics"
As you probably know, the song was inspired by Bulgakov's novel "The Master and Margarita"
That line is taken almost verbatim from the novel
dummy me
onwards and upwards. |
| 15th August 2007 07:50 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
wouldnt they more likely be Hindus if they were from Bombay, surely?
Not necessarily Gazza. We are talking about the 12th and 13th century here. This region,even today,is a battlefield amoung the Hindus and Muslims. See Kashmir. In India the two largest religions are Hindu and Muslim. The Muslims were raising all kinds of hell in that region back then as they still are today. They were known to "lay traps" for travelers along the silk road. Most likely this is the reference that Mick was talking about.
Riffy |
| 15th August 2007 08:02 PM |
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| andrews27 |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
As you probably know, the song was inspired by Bulgakov's novel "The Master and Margarita"
That line is taken almost verbatim from the novel
Everybody knows that this is half-true.
Norman Mailer once accused MJ in print of writing the song after reading a particularly disturbing magazine.
Are we sure about that line being from the book?
What does it mean in the book?
I haven't seen the book since I bought it in Toronto on my way to CNIB evening.
The more I think Beatles, the more I smell jackpot. |
| 15th August 2007 08:06 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Not necessarily Gazza. We are talking about the 12th and 13th century here. This region,even today,is a battlefield amoung the Hindus and Muslims. See Kashmir. In India the two largest religions are Hindu and Muslim. The Muslims were raising all kinds of hell in that region back then as they still are today. They were known to "lay traps" for travelers along the silk road. Most likely this is the reference that Mick was talking about.Riffy
Muslims only make up about 13% of the population of India now - even though its the fastest growing 'religion' in the world.
However, the road east towards India would indeed have probably primarily Muslim. The key word in the lyrics being 'BEFORE they reach Bombay', I suppose.
[Edited by Gazza] |
| 15th August 2007 08:12 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
Everybody knows that this is half-true.
Norman Mailer once accused MJ in print of writing the song after reading a particularly disturbing magazine.
Are we sure about that line being from the book?
What does it mean in the book?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy_for_the_devil#Inspiration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita |
| 15th August 2007 08:24 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Muslims only make up about 13% of the population of India now - even though its the fastest growing 'religion' in the world.
However, the road east towards India would indeed have probably primarily Muslim. The key word in the lyrics being 'BEFORE they reach Bombay', I suppose.
[Edited by Gazza]
Exactly! "Before they reach Bombay", is the telling lyric.
Riffy |
| 15th August 2007 09:44 PM |
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| andrews27 |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sympathy_for_the_devil#Inspiration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Master_and_Margarita
I actually read the book, with its echoes of Gogol. Yet neither Wiki article provides any demonstrable connection to those two lines.
Beatles! |
| 15th August 2007 10:51 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
andrews27 wrote:
I actually read the book, with its echoes of Gogol. Yet neither Wiki article provides any demonstrable connection to those two lines.
Beatles!
LOL! That's your story and you're sticking with it! Huh,Andrew?
No. I think it's about exactly what has been discussed here. It is a historical fact that troubadors were on the silk road travling towards Bombay. It's also true that they were kidnapped and held for ransoms,and more often than not,killed for their troubles. So the line about "laid traps for troubadors" makes perfect sense.
Of course,I like your explantion better,but given Jagger's historical references throughout the rest of the song I think that he is likely talking about the horrors of the silk raod travelers back in the day.
Riffy |
| 16th August 2007 02:16 AM |
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| no night together |
neither wikipedia makes mention of the fact that it's been marianne faithful to hand and introduce the master and margarita to mick and keith. well guess it's not that relevant for the discussion, anyway it's pretty sure. |
| 16th August 2007 04:04 AM |
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| Mathijs |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Not necessarily Gazza. We are talking about the 12th and 13th century here. This region,even today,is a battlefield amoung the Hindus and Muslims. See Kashmir. In India the two largest religions are Hindu and Muslim.
Riffy
Not exactly. India and Pakistan were divided by the British in '47, and the dividing line was rather crude in the Kashmir area. The struggles that are going on in that region are not political, but economical. As the area is very rich in reserves and land for harvesting, Pakistan keeps claiming the area as the mountain side of Pakistan is very poor in reserves. India now is a secular country by the way, with only about 12 percent Muslims.
Of course, religion always has a part in these struggles, but that's what happens in every conflict. The Islamic fanatic terrorism of these days is sparked by the Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, and the presence of Western powers in oil rich Arabic countries in general.
And to a lighter note: Brian Jones, Marianne Faithful and Anita Pallenberg are NOT singing backup vocals on the released version. The film where you see them singing around a mike in the studio was staged for the camera's. The whoo-whoo's are by Jagger, Richards and Jimmy Miller.
Mathijs
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| 16th August 2007 07:19 AM |
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| andrews27 |
Listening to the song again, the line sounds suspiciously like the present-tense form:
'And I *lay* traps for troubadours' (not 'laid')
So - Beatles!
It is, you know, possible to talk about two things at once - comparing the Beatles to slain troubadours of another century.
Why the fuck didn't those troubadours just stay home?
Mick, you're out there - Weigh in, willya? |
| 16th August 2007 12:11 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
Of course, religion always has a part in these struggles, but that's what happens in every conflict. The Islamic fanatic terrorism of these days is sparked by the Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts, and the presence of Western powers in oil rich Arabic countries in general.
Mathijs
While I am not about to get into a pissing match over this subject, I do have to give pause with this assertion. Are you implying that the reason that radical Islam is murdering innocents on every continent, save Antarctica, is because the existence of Israel, and because the USA's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq?
Israel was set up by the beloved UN back in 1947. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East. Israeli Arabs have more say over their own future in this Jewish State than they do in any Islamic state in the world. They have a higher standard of living, and better education in Israel than do other Muslims in any Islamic state as well.
As for the US involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan. I won't even bother to try with this topic. Some people just want to believe the anti-American rhetoric. The fact that it is pure bunk doesn't seem to matter to these "hate America first" types. I was involved in an argument with a very boorish German about a month ago. He wanted to blame the USA for all the terrorism in the world. Well he, seemingly like you Mathijs, tried to couple Israel and the USA as the main problem creating worldwide terrorism. Funny that. Given his own country's history towards Jews, but that matters not.
The amazing thing was that he could not seem to correlate the immigrant Muslim riots in France, the mass immigration of North African Muslims to Germany and the UK, and the daily murders of innocent non-American/Israeli Christians in Africa and the Far East with anything that America or Israel has ever done. He just went about believing what he and all the other anti-American/Israel types believe.
Even though Islamic terror has been going on for decades now, and against all infidels worldwide, he still couldn't bring himself to come to the obvious conclusion that radical Islam is a wicked perversion of a world religion and it's being fomented by despots trying to deflect any blame from themselves by laying blame on others. That some people not brainwashed in Islamic madrases buy this nonsense would believe it as well is stunning to most normal rational thinking people.
Mathjis, if this does not apply to your way of thinking then accept my apologies, but the way your post read I thought that that is what you were trying to insinuate.
Riffy
[Edited by Riffhard] |
| 16th August 2007 12:21 PM |
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| mrhipfl |
Maybe the Stones just made up shit hoping the fans weren't too analytical to try figure it out? |
| 16th August 2007 12:27 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
mrhipfl wrote:
Maybe the Stones just made up shit hoping the fans weren't too analytical to try figure it out?
LOL! No that can't be!
Survey says.....Good answer!
Riffy |
| 16th August 2007 01:05 PM |
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| glencar |
What about that carpet line in Gimme Shelter? Maybe Mick agrees with those who want to carpet bomb the Mideast. |
