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Topic: THE Stones Bible? Return to archive
08-20-02 02:48 PM
padre Dammit! I've been counting on James Karnbach's & Carol Bernson's "It's Only Rock & Roll: The Ultimate Guide to The Rolling Stones" to be THE BOOK for years. Now I just read that it's full of mistakes. I think I need some help from the experts.
What's the Real Stones Bible? The one you can turn to time and time again, the one that never lets you down and the one that's most updated.
08-20-02 03:35 PM
scull "Up and Down with The Rolling Stones" - 'Spanish' Tony Sanchez

Only kidding!!
08-20-02 03:55 PM
Mother baby
padre wrote:
"What's the Real Stones Bible? The one you can turn to time and time again, the one that never lets you down and the one that's most updated."

Not to sound stupid (I think I know what you're saying) but it's the Songs & Music...the rest is bullshit anyway... but as far as the trivia facts go, probably Rocks Off and all the rest of the sites that try to get the facts right.
08-20-02 03:56 PM
Riffhard Well padre that all depends on what your looking for.If you want a detailed account of the '69 tour and Altamont and the years preceeding these events.The only book is The True Adventures of the Rolling Stones by Stanley Booth.I have read lots of books about the Stones and none of them come close to this book for giving you a real feel of what it was like to be on the road with the boys.Plus it is all true.No mistakes.Booth was,and still is,a good friend of the band,particularly Keith.He lived with Keith for awhile after the '69 tour,but had to move because in his words,"One of us would have ended up dead,and I don't think it would have been Keith."

As far as other books.David Dalton's The First Twenty Years is good.However,it may not be in print any longer.Also,A Life On The Road from a few years ago is pretty good.Old Gods Almost Dead is full of fuck ups and down right lies.As is the aformentioned Up and Down by Spanish Tony.

Stone Alone by Bill is ok.It has loads of facts and dates of importance in full detail.I,however,found it a very boring read.Bill has every freaking event down to the time and date.It is great for research on recording dates etc.,but is rather tidious.

Get the Stanly Booth book first.You will not be able to put it down.

08-20-02 04:03 PM
Scot Rocks What about Philip Norman's book, "The Stones" I thought it was pretty ok, however it fades away towards the latter part of their career and mainly concentrates on the early days and the early 70s. Overall though, it was pretty good.

08-20-02 09:19 PM
Gazza Philip Norman's book is fucking rubbish

Every fucking five years or so he reissues an "updated" version of it which basically consists or about 2 pages of poorly researched crap littered with errors....every time the Stones appear in the public eye,wankers like the Daily Mail commission him as "THE STONES biographer" "the leading authority on the Stones" etc ad nauseam to write a piece on the band which invariably turns into a pile of reactionary old shite about a group of musicians he obviously despises yet has lived off for years.

Look at his fucking book for Chrissake..I saw the latest reissue on HMV a few days ago..I think the last 25 years of the bands career is covered in no more than about 40 pages, so why does he bother even TRYING to pretend hes updating it?

he's a wanker,pure and simple and his book is a load of shite....avoid (mind you "Shout" his Beatles bio aint bad)

You want recommendations on Stones books? try the aforementioned "true adventures" by Stanley booth, Bob Greenfields "Jouney through america" and Chet Flippo's "Its only rock n roll" (or whatever variation of a title there is..basically its a tour account from the mid 70's)

however all of these books only capture a limited period of time in the bands history....there isnt really a definitive biography worth talking about IMO because so many of them repeat the same errors that are in other books, concentrate on the 60s and ignore anything after that for the most part. Wyman's is obviously a first hand account,but as said above, its a bit dull.. Bockris' Keith bio is a fun read but maybe underestimates Jagger's importance in the band greatly. I'd recommend it though as an affectionate portrait of the man.

personally I prefer the books that concentrate on the music and the bootlegs etc such as those by many of the European experts such as Nico Zentgraf, Felix Aeppli, Dieter Hoffman etc..but thats cos thats the side of the Stones Im more the music as opposed to the personalities and the salacious stuff. I like Karnbachs book a lot for many reasons - some great and rare pics,good studio info and discography and its good on the early days for providing setlists of shows etc...falls down though in the later years with the setlists for recent tours being sloppily researched.

If anyone wants to give me an advance,I'd happily spend some considerable time on a comprehensive book listing all the band's studio sessions as well as interviewing people who actually worked with them down the years (so itd be a mix of factual info as well as insight etc)..I'd certainly give it a go at getting it done right and accurately, but I doubt I'd get the chance though!!!!
08-20-02 09:37 PM
Stonesprofessor At least Wyman's book is by somebody who was THERE...having said that...both of Booth's books are way cool..ditto for both of David Dalton's [IF you can find 'em...]. Norman is a jerk.....Keith prob STILL laffs about Sanchez' book.... Jimmy Phelge's book ["Nankering with the Stones"...] is a GREAT account of their early, starving days..and theres a great book called "Black and White Blues", with some incredible shots of the Stones on the Bo Diddley/Everlys/Little Richard tour AND in the studio recording "I Wanna Be Your Man".. [Most incredible shot: the boys outside the studio...scraping together change to pay a cab!!!!] One bible,per se...but lots of different books...that if put together WOULD make a kinda neat Bible of sorts.....
08-20-02 09:46 PM
Gimme Shelter Didn't Phillip Norman pass away as a result of AIDS a few years ago? I just finished "Old Gods Almost Dead" by Stephen Davis. It was entertaining.
08-20-02 09:48 PM
Scot Rocks Wow!!!!! ok, i take your point Gazza, however it was one of the first Stones books I have read, so I couldn't be sure of all the facts when I read it. So, for me as just looking for a general account that is what I was looking for and I can only see what is right and wrong after I have read more stuff. Greenfield's book is brilliant though, i just could not put it down, it just managed to illustrate that tour briliantly imao. The feeling of setting out, the different feelings as the STP and the Stones rode a rollercoaster ride of emotions through a hot summer in America. It rocked!!!!!. I have only read 3 Stones books so "Time is on my side" I was gonna pick up "Stone alone" next as I have 10 months to bury my head in books!!!!!

08-20-02 09:59 PM
Gazza >Didn't Phillip Norman pass away as a result of AIDS a few years ago?

sadly no..but theres always hope...

If he DID snuff it,it might explain the quality of the self righteous drivel hes been writing in the Daily Mail about the Stones in recent months
08-20-02 10:05 PM
Gimme Shelter My mistake. I was thinking of Nicolas Schaffner who had written some Beatle books.
08-21-02 12:06 AM
Bluzian Ok, now I forget the title of it, but it's by David Dalton,
circa 1971, and the book I have was given to me as a gift
from someone who loved the Stones 30+ years ago. The book
is somewhat of a retro-spective glossy, about 170 pages,
kinda like a picture/literature one. Many AWESOME photos
that I doubt many people have seen - backstage stuff, and
it's all basically from the 1970/1971 tours, chronicalling
the tour by interviewing Gram Parsons, Mick, bobby Keys,
and it's a candid perspective of them visually and literally.
The book is somewhere buried in my room, and it's very
brittle. As a gift, a price can't be put on it, but, I'd
be willing to bet that this original would fetch a hunnerd
or so..? I'll try and find it. Watch This Space!


PS: Hickory Wind by Ben Fong-Torres on Gram Parsons is a must!
08-21-02 05:26 AM
scull I've got that Dalton book, the imprint I have is titled, rather imaginatively "The Rolling Stones", it's a great on the period it covers ie late sixties to 71, much of it reprinted pieces he had written for the 'underground' press. My personal favourites are the Stanley Booth book (True Adventures/Dance with The Devil) and Robert Greenfield's STP, but as Gazza and others have pointed out there's no definitive career spanning biography, hopefully one day there will be. Anyone think Mick or Keith will ever write their own??
08-21-02 05:54 AM
Stonesprofessor wrote:
no One bible,per se...but lots of different books...that if put together WOULD make a kinda neat Bible of sorts.....

i think you're onto something there... after all isn't "the bible" a collection of books...and don't some of those also contradict each other - or so i understand, i'm no expert there

as far as reliability of all the stones books available goes who can tell?

i've got a number of them, the bio's,the chronologies and what not and i bet i don't have even half of what's around

Miles "The Rolling Stones - a Visual Documentary" upto July '93 which gives a day by day (almost literally) account of their entire history with an excellent array of pics and it seems to be relatively accurate... but as i say how the f$%k would you know?

Dalton's "the first twenty years" has some interesting and at times nicely weird stuff in it but i suspect it's "sessionography" is incomplete as well as not entirely accurate - although some lee-way must be given as it is a bit subjective as to when ideas actually become songs at times

I can only second Gazza and Riffhard's recommendations - Greenfield,Flippo, Bockris and especially Booth's "True Adventures" - which is so much more than just another stones book - extremely well written (imho) and the three converging sub - plots structure is a stroke of genius and what a climax! - he couldn't have made up anything crazier than what actually happened...but i digress -his follow up biography of keith is less convincing but nonetheless has some good tales and unusual insights

sanchez might be "all" bullshit but i doubt it... i'd say there's more than one or two grains of truth in what he says despite the band's protestations to the contrary...if nothing else,it's hilarious

There are plenty of other's, "track by track" things and so forth but there is one i've seen - in line with Gazza's dream brief - maybe you've heard of or seen it Gazza - i can't recall author or title (big help huh?) but it appeared to be an exhaustive history of their session work -incredible detail it went down to the last maraca player (maracist?) - it went up to about 78 - 81 and may have come out of Europe - ring any bells?

[Edited by stonedinaustralia]
08-21-02 07:18 AM
JaggaRichards add Greenfield's book about the 1972 Tour to the list
08-21-02 07:24 AM
stonedinaustralia hey JR don't you read the posts - four of us have already mentioned it

and while i'm here everyone must read greenfield's interview wih keith circa '71 imho

[Edited by stonedinaustralia]
08-21-02 07:35 AM
scull The '71 Greenfield interview is re-printed (with some extra material) in the Genesis Publications Exile tome. A lovely book if a trifle costly. It's certainly required reading, very candid Keith.

08-21-02 08:07 AM
Shattered Stones' Bible?
If I'm not mistaking, they prefer The old Douay-Rheims version.
08-21-02 09:06 AM
corgi37 This is going to be a really annoying thing, as i have no details, but the best book i have is by "some guy". Yep, i cant remember his name, or the name of the book, cause since i moved house, i cant fucking find it!! It came out just before "bridges". the guy is from new york, i think. I know he had a beard. it has recording sessions, song lists, all tour dates and most listings of songs played on every tour since 63. Also, heaps of pics of the author with the band. I MUST find the book, i still have it, somewhere, but it is brilliant. No, ahem, stone left unturned. Not much in the way of gossip or tattle-taling, but heaps of info, particularly on un-released tracks. Fuck, now i gotta rummage through my basement to find it. Driving me nuts now, as i write this. i agree with other postings though, no 1 book is definative. The more scandal ridden ones are a hoot. But is a book runs 400 pages, be sure that 350 are about the 60's, 40 about the 70's and the rest are the index. I hate all the books where Keith and Mick killed Brian by destroying his ego, ambition, talent etc. I mean, who took all the fucking drugs in the 1st place? As Charlie said in 25 x 5. "Brian liked drugs, but they were'nt good for him". Sanchez book is a riot, particularly the period 67-69. Wish i had a hovercraft!!!
08-21-02 09:08 AM
corgi37 Oh, i forgot!! There was a brilliant book on the 75 tour. Annie liebovitz was the snapper for the tour. Not really a book, more a collection of unreal pics. It would have to contain the most fantastic pics of the stones on stage that i have ever seen. jagger himself wrote the forward. Ahh, 1975. Full of Warhol. Bianca, sexy letter from Nureov and of course, the lotus stage. Oh, yeah, and a new band member. Young Ronnie. Top book.
08-21-02 09:24 AM
padre Sorry, seems I wasn't accurate enough. I've got loads of Stones books, but the one I'm looking for now is a reliable book of all the sessions, tours, releases, promos, TV performances, etc. Just the facts, mam...
But about that Leibovitz book. I've been searching for it for a while now, so if any of you know where to get it...I think Annie Leibovitz has the best shots of the Stones ever! Her stage and backstage photos are just stunning.
08-21-02 04:18 PM
padre wrote:
but the one I'm looking for now is a reliable book of all the sessions, tours, releases, promos, TV performances, etc. Just the facts, mam...
But about that Leibovitz book. I've been searching for it for a while now, so if any of you know where to get it...

well the Miles book I mentioned is pretty good - just the facts - though session details are a bit (very) slim - but good for a blow by blow account of what they did and where they did it

as far as session historys go the other i previously mentioned but could not remember the name or author is the best i've seen...sorry i can't give you more details

the leibovitz '75 book is probabaly well out of print...second hand book-stores would be the go for that one

i'd say the definitive history containing just the facts but all the facts re sessions, tours and the stones history in general is yet to be some ways it won't be 'til they stop, as long as they keep rolling the historys are incomplete as soon as the hit the printing press

[Edited by stonedinaustralia]

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