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Topic: Faceoff: Beatles or Rolling Stones? Return to archive
14th August 2006 11:45 AM
Ten Thousand Motels Faceoff: Beatles or Rolling Stones?

Times-News staffers Dave Boden and Richard Kerns debate an issue of interest to our readers. (Opinions expressed by the two are not necessarily those of the Times-News.)

This week's topic:
Beatles and Stones
http://www.times-news.com/opinion/local_story_225111831.html?keyword=topstory

It was 44 years ago next Tuesday that Ringo Starr first joined the Beatles for a performance at Liverpool’s Cavern Club, thus today’s debate: The Beatles or the Stones, which group rules?

Also dating to 1962, the Rolling Stones are, in the words of the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame, “the longest-lived continuously active group in rock and roll history.” Named after the title of a Muddy Waters song, The Stones have recorded more than 40 albums, selling hundreds of millions of records. While the Beatles were clean-cut, with mop-top haircuts, The Stones cultivated a rebellious image: Unkempt, surly bad boys of Rock. Still touring today, The Rolling Stones racked up a record-breaking $162 million in the last half of 2005 during their ongoing A Bigger Bang tour.

The Beatles recorded 40 different singles and albums that reached the top spot in British or American charts. Over the years, more than 1 billion Beatles records have been sold, making them the top selling recording artists of all time. Their clothes, hairstyles and lifestyles made them trend setters throughout the 1960s.

In VH1’s 100 greatest songs of Rock ‘n’ Roll, The Stones have one song in the top 20 — Satisfaction at #1. The Beatles have three in the top 20: Hey Jude (9), Yesterday (12) and A Day in the Life (20).

THE QUESTION:

Which is the world’s greatest Rock ‘n’ Roll Band, The Beatles or The Rolling Stones?

Beatles
Richard Kerns

I’m beginning this treatise the evening of Aug. 2, as next week I’m to be off on vacation —riding a double preposition to freedom — so I need to write early. And, having just put the finishing touches on a too-serious Faceoff effort on the Israeli assault in Lebanon, I’m in no mood for more of that fare tonight.

The Big Guy and I agreed earlier today to debate “English as the official American language,” but, having perturbed a couple of readers who felt I had a wee bit too much fun with the bear hunt debate, I did not want to whimsy all over the immigration issue. So, unbeknownst to Dave at this late hour, we are switching to a lighter Plan B topic we’d also discussed. If you want serious, bail on us now and look just about anywhere else — TV, the Web, the newspaper — there’s tons of that stuff available these days.

Today, Dave and I address a seminal issue of our age that will be debated in old folk homes well into the 21st century. The Beatles or The Stones: Which is the greatest rock ‘n’ roll band of all time?

No write-ins. If you don’t accept the premise that today’s choice can indeed be narrowed to just two bands, then get off of my cloud. With a little help from my friend on the other side of the page, I’ll guide the rest of the folks along the path of truth and wisdom to sweet enlightenment. Dave marks that path as well, in the twisted sense that, if you just go in the opposite direction he travels, you’ll get there every time.

Which is NOT to say The Stones aren’t legitimately the world’s Second Greatest Rock ‘n’ Roll Band. But there has to be the greatest, and that title belongs to the Beatles.

Yes, Dave, the Stones’ repertoire dwarfs the Beatles’. Mick and Co. have righteously earned the endurance award, their four-plus decades together a testament not only to sustained creativity and energy, but to their ability to remain mates all that time. The Beatles only made it seven years, but then they allowed women into the mix and, well, we won’t go there.

I’ve often wondered what could have been, if The Beatles would have just chilled a bit in 1970, and let each other do their own thing, then come together when it felt right, months or years later. Or, what if John Lennon hadn’t walked home to the Dakota that night 25 years ago, when a lunatic ended forever any chance of a Beatles reunion.

In any case, mere longevity does not grant today’s title to the Stones, just as the Beatles do not earn the recognition for merely being first to blaze the craze trail. In large part, of course, it’s about the quality of the music, and by that measure, the Stones indeed have the edge, because size does matter in today’s debate — catalog size.

From She Loves You, to A Day in the Life, to Come Together from the Beatles, to the Stones’ Satisfaction, Paint It Black and Gimme Shelter, who’s to say which band came out on top during their dual runs through the ‘60s? Depends on your mood. Some days ya reach for the Stones, some days the Beatles.

After 1970, though, The Beatles get left behind. Honky Tonk Woman, Brown Sugar, Jumping Jack Flash, Angie, Beast of Burden, Start Me Up. Nuff said. On points alone, then, the Stones prevail.

But Rock, like music itself, is about more than just the number of records sold. At its best, it’s about transformation; songs that move and inspire, that define our times. Using that yardstick, The Beatles come out on top on the strength of one record that drew a psychedelic, before-and-after line through the middle of the ‘60s, and the heart of our times.

After a 129-day recording session in 1967, The Beatles released Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band, and the world was never the same. Regarded as the most influential rock album of all time, Sgt. Pepper, Wikipedia says, is “innovative in every sense, from structure to recording techniques to the cover artwork; the artistic effect was felt immediately and influenced nearly every pop-rock album that came after it.”

British author Kenneth Tynan described Sgt. Pepper as “a decisive moment in the history of Western civilization.”

In 2003, none other than Rolling Stone magazine put Sgt. Pepper at the top of its list of the 500 greatest albums.

How then, dear reader, can the greatest rock album of all time be recorded by anything other than the greatest rock band of all time?

Oh yea, I read the news today, 4,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire, and 2,595 American graves from a war that didn’t have to be fought. And though the holes were rather small, they had to count them all, because each one matters...

Stones
Dave Boden

My 9-year-old son could well have been named Keith Richard Boden. I’m not joking either. Prior to his birth, my wife and I discussed many different names for our second born. One thing for sure, he was not going to be David Garfield Boden III, as two “Garfields” and one “little Dave” was already enough in our family.

As my wife and I batted around names, I suggested a middle name of Lee for the baby if it was a boy. Quickly that was shot down, as she knew it was a poor attempt on my part to pay homage to one of my favorite rockers, David Lee Roth, and still keep the name “David” in the family tree. When I suggested “Keith” as a possibility for a first name, my wife immediately said, “ … and I suppose his middle name would be Richard?” “Absolutely,” I replied.

As evidenced by my son’s name today, it’s pretty easy for one to assume that my wife is not as big a fan of the Stones as I am ... his name is David Reid Boden, and we call him “Reid.”

In a rather ironic twist, though not named after a rock legend, my son Reid has become quite the classic rock connoisseur and music historian … and he’s only nine years old! Though he is anxiously awaiting this week’s column, he is somewhat disappointed with me, because of my backing of Mick, Keith and the boys. In fact, he has already informed me that he will be voting for “Richard” this week as the Beatles are his favorite rock band.

There is really no right or wrong this week … or is there?

I mean how could you possibly vote against the “Cal Ripken” of Rock and Roll? Keith Richards is not only one of rock’s legendary guitarists and musical icons, but the fact that he is still walking and breathing the same air as the rest of us serves as proof that God is a fan of the Stones too. I have always been in complete awe of his ability to live like he plays … or is it play like he lives … only Keith knows.

Keith’s life has always been as entertaining as his music. He certainly read the book about “sex, drugs, and rock and roll” that was authored by Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis … and then he smoked it. While other rock stars have either died young, faded away, or have been sentenced to singing oldies or writing Disney soundtracks, the Stones have persevered and continue to attract fans from age 9 to 79.

While we will never know what the Beatles may have been had Paul and John been able to work out their differences, we do know that the Stones have not only survived … but thrived. While Paul McCartney is out doing battles with divorce lawyers and singing silly love songs, Rock’s Royal Family is still selling out stadiums worldwide and Keith Richards is still cheating death.

The Stones’ lead guitarist most recent brush with death came during the bands current tour. To everybody’s surprise it was not due to an overdose either. Keith Richards almost made history as the first person to have ever been killed by a palm tree … or at least the fall from one. Nobody really knows what the 62-year-old Richards was actually doing up in a palm tree, but just the thought of it puts smiles on the faces of most rock fans. You can’t help but think he may have had a little encouragement from his old friend Jack Daniels. Upon healing from his Fiji free fall and the subsequent brain surgery, Richards was heard saying, “"Excuse me, I fell off my perch. Sorry to disrupt everyone's plans … but now it's full steam ahead."

I laughed like heck when I heard that “perch” line … but when I thought a little more about it, I realized that is exactly why the Stones have always been my favorite. Jagger, Richards and Co. have been having fun for years and for the most part have managed to stay out of politics and avoid the temptations of become actors, benefactors or activists. Proof that Mick and Keith have not always seen eye to eye on everything was their foray into solo careers in the 80’s and early 90’s. While their solo music was mildly successful and even interesting to some true Stones junkies, the pair knows that neither could have been successful without the other and because they know this, fans continue to enjoy their music.

The World’s Greatest Rock and Roll Band was the soundtrack to many of the events in my life that I will never admit to my children as being a party to (with the key word being party). However, I would be a complete liar if I didn’t say that I hope that my son feels the same way some day. Long Live Keith!



What do you think?

There are several ways you can register your views on today's debate.

Poll

An online poll will allow readers to cast their own vote, with the results published on the Opintion Page next Sunday. You must vote by noon Thursday. You can vote either on the Homepage or the Opinion page of times-news.com.

Write us

You can also share your thoughts via email. Just send us an e-mail at [email protected]. Selected comments will be printed in next week's Opinion section.

We also welcome written letters. Send them by mail to Letters to the Editor, 19 Baltimore St., Cumberland, MD 21502 or by fax to 301-722-5270.
14th August 2006 11:46 AM
jb old and tired debate which serve no purpose as we always lose despite the fact everyone here knows how much better the Stones are..........
[Edited by jb]
14th August 2006 11:47 AM
Gazza fuck me pink, those two dillholes must be bored to have thought that original debate up

is it 1965 yet?
14th August 2006 11:54 AM
Ten Thousand Motels
quote:
Gazza wrote:
fuck me pink, those two dillholes must be bored to have thought that original debate up



I wonder what next weeks debate will be????

Well, it could be who the greatest coach ever in the NFL is, but we all know the answer to that too.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
14th August 2006 12:01 PM
Saint Sway its the dumbest R&R debate of all time. The Stones absolutely blow the doors off the Beatles (who are the most overated band of all-time IMO).

Stones crush the Beatles in every conceivable category: quality songs, great albums, live performance, endurance, overall talent, individual talent, songwriting, coolness, image, style, rock - hard rock, slow rock, blues, country, soul, not having married Yoko... not having lost their songs to Michael Jackson... having written songs that the Beatles could never ever write or perform in their wildest dreams like Gimme Shelter, CYHMK, Sympathy For the Devil, Monkey Man, ONNYA...
14th August 2006 12:02 PM
jb
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
its the dumbest R&R debate of all time. The Stones absolutely blow the doors off the Beatles (who are the most overated band of all-time IMO).

Stones crush the Beatles in every conceivable category: quality songs, great albums, live performance, endurance, overall talent, individual talent, songwriting, coolness, image, style, rock - hard rock, slow rock, blues, country, soul, not having married Yoko... not having lost their songs to Michael Jackson... having written songs that the Beatles could never ever write or perform in their wildest dreams like Gimme Shelter, CYHMK, Sympathy For the Devil, Monkey Man, ONNYA...



100% correct...yet, sadly, the world sees it much differently.
14th August 2006 12:23 PM
christijanus
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
its the dumbest R&R debate of all time. The Stones absolutely blow the doors off the Beatles (who are the most overated band of all-time IMO).

Stones crush the Beatles in every conceivable category: quality songs, great albums, live performance, endurance, overall talent, individual talent, songwriting, coolness, image, style, rock - hard rock, slow rock, blues, country, soul, not having married Yoko... not having lost their songs to Michael Jackson... having written songs that the Beatles could never ever write or perform in their wildest dreams like Gimme Shelter, CYHMK, Sympathy For the Devil, Monkey Man, ONNYA...



Not to Michael Jackson, but their main songs to Allen Klein
14th August 2006 12:27 PM
Some Guy Next debate U2 VS. Coldplay.
14th August 2006 12:30 PM
danielharris627 I saw that earlier on google...
14th August 2006 12:43 PM
Ihavelotsajam
quote:
Depends on your mood. Some days ya reach for the Stones, some days the Beatles.




There are many days when I dont reach for the Stones, but there's never a day I reach for the Beatles. I wonder what I'm not getting.
I think it's the harmonizing. It kills them. As unlistenable as the Beach Boys.
14th August 2006 12:47 PM
jb
quote:
Ihavelotsajam wrote:



There are many days when I dont reach for the Stones, but there's never a day I reach for the Beatles. I wonder what I'm not getting.
I think it's the harmonizing. It kills them. As unlistenable as the Beach Boys.


Ihave never reached for a beatles album in my 43 yrs...Off course I have heard via radio almost all their songs, and in all sincerity, I don't care for it at all. I recall when I was younger being able to listen to "Revolution" or "Get back" without changing the station, but for the most part, was into the Stones at a very young age and never was impressed with the world's preoccupation with this group..
14th August 2006 01:02 PM
aladdinstory insipid, irreleveant and utterly pointless :::yawn:::
14th August 2006 01:11 PM
erbissell Both the rolling stones and the beatles admit to being friends. So the competition beetween the two really was just what the press made it. Watch these: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IW3VYrUvheA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bq7UJq5IQvI
Now the only debate is who was better, Because the Stones are still rockin away into their golden years and the beatles fell apart years ago. Long live the stones!
14th August 2006 01:12 PM
jb
quote:
erbissell wrote:
Both the rolling stones and the beatles admit to being friends. So the competition beetween the two really was just what the press made it. Watch these: http://youtube.com/watch?v=IW3VYrUvheA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bq7UJq5IQvI
Now the only debate is who was better, Because the Stones are still rockin away into their golden years and the beatles fell apart years ago. Long live the stones!


I really don't think Mick or keith care much for Macca....
14th August 2006 01:13 PM
Dick Bush Not only Beatles always ruled over Stones, they were kind enough to support the Stones on the beginning of their career. They even wrote the very first record the Stones have ever made, and that was the very good ground for the further success of the Stones. John and Paul were indeed excellent teachers to Keef and Mick, though only Keef appears to be really greatful for that favours.

Besides, the Beatles have only had one single "Ringo".
14th August 2006 09:51 PM
Soldatti
quote:
Some Guy wrote:
Next debate U2 VS. Coldplay.



Not a R&R debate for sure.
14th August 2006 09:52 PM
MrPleasant I'll go with The Who.
15th August 2006 12:29 AM
aladdinstory
quote:
Dick Bush wrote:
Not only Beatles always ruled over Stones, they were kind enough to support the Stones on the beginning of their career. They even wrote the very first record the Stones have ever made, and that was the very good ground for the further success of the Stones. John and Paul were indeed excellent teachers to Keef and Mick, though only Keef appears to be really greatful for that favours.

Besides, the Beatles have only had one single "Ringo".



yeah and then Lorne Greene went and screwed that one all up!
15th August 2006 12:51 AM
Taptrick
The Stones are/were popular the same way drugs, alcohol, or fucking are popular.

The Beatles were/are popular like Britney Spears or Madonna....bubble gum wrapped in a media package.

15th August 2006 02:22 AM
gorda
quote:
Taptrick wrote:

The Stones are/were popular the same way drugs, alcohol, or fucking are popular.

The Beatles were/are popular like Britney Spears or Madonna....bubble gum wrapped in a media package.





Well, I love chewing gum! I love drinking beer, wine or champagne, too!

And, I love the Stones and the Beatles, too!

And, I want to bonk both Micky and Paulie some day!
15th August 2006 02:35 AM
MrPleasant
quote:
gorda wrote:

And, I want to bonk both Micky and Paulie some day!



You want to bonk them? (!!)

Bonked as in reference to Joe Pesci's gruesome faith in Martin Scorsese's Casino??? WHY????

It's World War III and everyone is dug in to a foxhole. The private goes up to his Sargeant and tells him he has to take a shit really bad. The Sarge tells him that they will be here for a long time and not to do it because of the stench.

The private asks what should he do, and the Sarge says "go to that motthole over there and we will all cover you".

The private dives in just as bullets wiz over his head. Two days later the sarge wonders where the private has gone. All of a sudden he appears smiling. He tells the sargeant of his adventures in the other hole. "I met the most incredible girl in the other hole. We had sex in Every position know to man ...rough sex... kinky sex... doggie style...etc."

The sargent asked "Did she give you good head?".

And the private said, "Head.... no she didn't have a head."
17th August 2006 09:51 PM
Kilroy The Beatles are the #1 Pop Music Band of all time, Sgrt Pepper, proves it.
The Stones are the greatest # 1 Rock N Roll Performing Band of all time, this latest tour proves that. As I've said before here............
The Stones are Rock-N-Roll. No One Compares. They've done it, did it, invented it, or stole it, in true Rock-N-Roll Tradition. Being behind another does not make you less, it is rock-n -roll. Rock-n-Roll has no perfection, as soon as it get perfected it not rock n roll. That is why the The Stones are #2, because they are Rock n Roll. pure and simple. Plus this is a tired theme, it's like which is best chocalate or strawberry.
18th August 2006 01:50 AM
Bloozehound these boards are crawling with prissy, pop Beatles fans posing as hardcore Stones rockers

ask'em to tell you which is better, Stones or Beatles?

they won't

Beatles fans, all the way
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