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| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>If your not excited about a new live Stones album then you must not be a big Stones fan.
Guess I'm not much of a fan then and from what I've read from others on this and other fan sites, not too many others are by your definition.
The Stones release a live album from every tour. Each sells less than the one before it and the songs are usually edited to fuck. The last one was the worst selling record of their career by some considerable distance.
It's a contractual obligation cash-in and a very belated one.
Stones releases since 1974 :
Compilations - 5
Live albums - 6 (7 if you count R&R Circus)
Studio albums - 9
and since the last studio album, theyve done 2 live albums and a compilation - with another compilation about to be reissued.
It takes a bit more to "excite" me than that I'm afraid!
Sales? Who care about sales. I care about music. There are great tracks on No Security that I love! Over all as an album I'm not thrilled but there are a few tracks that I still play over and over. Don't you think it's great to get some excellent live Stones? It's a lot better than nothing. I always look for bootlegs b-sides and video. It;s always great to get somethiong new that I love to play. It adds much to my life.
If the Stones didn't have time or whatever to put out a studio album then it would be great to have a live album with a bteer version of Worried About You, Hand of Fate etc.
And yeah, many Stones fans aren't great Stones fans. They'll either dismiss everything after Taylor left the band or say who wants a live album or not even know what's out there as far as collect Stones stuff to enjoy. Out of all of the real Stones fans who surf the net for Stones, collect boots and go to several shows there are very few who are really big Stones fans. Many never even got the rock remix of Don't Stop!
A fars as editing to fuck does that include overdubs? They do great overdubs!!! |
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| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>The new live album is good to put in the car and to get new fans
I'd have thought that "40 Licks" would have covered that territory more than adequately.
If someone is going to buy their first Stones album, then I seriously doubt a hodgepodge of live recordings over a period of 20 years or so is going to be an essential choice.
There's absolutely NO point at all to this live compilation - commercially or artistically.
It's not a live comilation of 20 years. Who would want that. It's LIVE LICKS!!!!
40 Licks is studio stuff and there's no great live Worried About You on that! Crystal CAts Stockholm has a great live Worried About You. Imagine that in great sound? That would be awesome.
All we have is some half-baked info about Live Licks and we haven't heard it yet, so the jury is still out (at least for me). Let's not crack our chickens before they... |
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| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
cwatts0462 wrote:
this release is just silly, the stones should take a page from zep and release something from the vault, they really
piss me off with this crap
What is silly about it. I don't understand? |
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| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
SirMuddy wrote:
Hi there....
Remember Four Flicks?
Why do you need another live album with the same tracks?
I put it all on cd... sound damn good! I did "Licks you live" for my car:
102 Street fighting man (MSG)
104 Don't stop (MSG)
The Rolling Stones - Love Train (Olympia)
403 Rock me baby (Wiltern)
306 No expectations (Olympia)
307 Worried about you (Olympia)
309 Stray cat blues (Olympia)
312 That's how strong my love is (Olympia)
315 Nearness of you (Olympia)
110 Thru & thru (MSG)
113 Can't you hear me knocking (MSG)
207 Paint it black (Twickenham)
405 I can't turn you loose (Circus Krone)
No one needs a rehash of Four Flicks. There better be new versions of Worried About You anf the other greats!
Your picks above looks excellent with a nice flow. I'd love to listen to that! I'd kip the Keith tracks and put on Wild Horses! |
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| Gazza |
>It's not a live comilation of 20 years. Who would want that. It's LIVE LICKS!!!!
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. When I posted my comments a couple of days ago, the general consensus was that the album would be 1 CD from the Licks tour and 1 CD from past live albums, a concept which almost everyone bar from a few psychophants who would buy the band's turds if they were recycled, agreed was ludicrous and a rip off.
Now,its rumoured (but not confirmed) to be a 2 CD of material from the last tour. Different matter entirely. I'd buy that. Even though I dont think they should release so many live albums.
But yeah, I do have a problem with the way they edit the crap out of songs on EVERY live album.
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| Gazza |
>Sales? Who care about sales. I care about music. There are great tracks on No Security that I love! Over all as an album I'm not thrilled but there are a few tracks that I still play over and over. Don't you think it's great to get some excellent live Stones? It's a lot better than nothing. I always look for bootlegs b-sides and video. It;s always great to get somethiong new that I love to play. It adds much to my life.
Let me clarify this. I don't give a flying fuck about record sales personally. However, I do give a shit about the band's legacy and long term reputation. And releasing a series of pointless time-filling and contractual obligation cash-in's is affecting that. Yes, it's better than 'nothing' but I'd rather see them put out something that I can look forward to a bit more positively than "its better than nothing".
I didn't say "No Security" was a bad album. It wasn't. (As far as their live albums go, its better than Flashpoint, Still Life, Got Live if You Want It and Love You Live). I'll give them some credit for the track listing as it meant we didnt get "Satisfaction" and "Jumpin Jack Flash" for the zillionth time on a live album. Decent track listing, good performances but not an album I'd personally listen to much these days. Plenty of boots give a better representation of that tour. I just don't think the world needs a live album from EVERY tour. I also think the DVD covered the tour more than adequately. In fact it was a magnificent release which rendered the concept of live albums redundant. And 1 CD of this new one we're promised will feature the "well known songs" - great, so that will make it the 5th live album to feature "Jumpin Jack Flash" and "Sympathy", and the fourth official live outing for "Satisfaction", "Tumbling dice" and "You cant always get what you want". Hold me back, HMV!
I also think they could and should have released this six months ago or more. The tour will have been over almost a year before this album hits the shops. It's almost ancient history when you leave the release of a tour live "souvenir" that long, especially with a new studio album and tour hopefully in the near future.
>If the Stones didn't have time or whatever to put out a studio album then it would be great to have a live album with a bteer version of Worried About You, Hand of Fate etc.
theres a slight flaw in the first few words of your argument, exile. The Stones have had SEVEN FUCKING YEARS to "have time to put out a studio album". OK, take off maybe four years of that for the amount of time they've been on the road since then, but it still adds up to a chronic lack of ambition and inspiration whatever way you care to look at it.
at least it seems that what should be on this album is more promising than what we'd originally believed it to be (ie the live compilation). Thank heavens for small mercies.
>A far as editing to fuck does that include overdubs? They do great overdubs!!!
Consider this. Of all the Stones live albums theyve put out since 1966, the combined number of songs that have been released on them that HAVENT been either edited or had overdubs on them can be counted on one hand. Literally!
Now, the Stones record EVERY show they play and have done since the early 1970's. Not necessarily for the possibility of live release - generally just for their own private use - but still, that means that in all the time from 1972 - 2003 thats about 700 shows that have been professionally recorded.
Yet every live release sees them feel the need to overdub or butcher what are very often quite good performances. Now surely it cant be THAT hard to find a couple of hours worth of performances that can be put onto a double CD (even if its culled from several different shows) in unedited and undubbed form with a track listing and running order that gives it the FEEL of a single, flowing performance?
That's another minor gripe about this upcoming release. A CD of warhorses and a CD of rarities. No natural 'flow' to it. Cd 1 is obviously aimed at sales because they fear another bomb like No Security.
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
But yeah, I do have a problem with the way they edit the crap out of songs on EVERY live album.
Oh bullshit! With all due respect. That's a red herring thing IMO. The problem isn't about "editting" its about the fact that the Stones just can't or won't cut the old mustard anymore. They are "Aristocrats Behind Tall Walls" now. It just ain't the same as it was. Music ultimately has to be tapped from a very deep hole....and there's a price to be paid for that, of which the Stones can no longer afford. |
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| Gazza |
Theyve ALWAYS edited and overdubbed live albums, TTM. Get Yer Ya Yas Out (an album I love) is as heavily overdubbed as any of the others and having heard the shows on that tour in unedited and raw form, they certainly COULD "cut the mustard" back then.
They still can. Most of the shows I saw on the last tour were excellent. So, theres no reason why they cant put together a live release of undubbed and unedited songs considering they record so many shows. |
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| Bloozehound |
This is sounding a bit better, I'll give it a look when it comes out.
It would be cool if they released one disc of their rarities from the tour, and the other disc was made up of cover songs they did on the tour, if indeed they did enough cover songs to fill up an entire disc. |
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| F505 |
First of all the opinion "if your not excited about a new live Stones album then you must not be a big Stones fan" is the greatest bullshit I heard in years. It's very childish to put it this way. When I was 12 years old I used this kind of 'arguments'. Please stay critical even if the Stones are involved.
Secondly I disagree with Gazza on the point of No Security. Love You Live is imo a great live album: the El Mocambo site is still one of the best performances of the Stones ever recorded. But I agree with Gazza's analysis that the Stones annoy many fans with releasing live album number 7 or 8. It's a cheap trick to please some fans who even like the sound of Keith Richard flushing the toilet.
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| Gazza |
> Love You Live is imo a great live album: the El Mocambo site is still one of the best performances of the Stones ever recorded.
If theyd released Love You Live as the El Mocambo stuff alone it would have been almost as great an album as Ya Ya's. The El Mocambo side is brilliant and I could listen to those four songs every day. The rest is almost all awful, and Jagger never sang worse. |
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| F505 |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
The rest is almost all awful, and Jagger never sang worse.
Disagree. I think Love you Live is still their best official live album. |
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| Bloozehound |
quote:
F505 wrote:
Disagree. I think Love you Live is still their best official live album.
Better than YaYa's, wow! |
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| F505 |
yes sir! |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
F505 wrote:
Disagree. I think Love you Live is still their best official live album.
Well, Flashpoint is a little better than Love You Live IMO... |
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| Gazza |
Oh I think its a lot better..lol
All this chitter chatter has made me dig the live albums (and some live CD singles) out this evening (not least because I'm updating a part of the setlists page).
LYL I just could never warm to. I think the '76 tour was the band's worst ever and Mick's singing is just breathless coke-induced shouting (listen to JJ Flash on that album, its awful). "Fingerprint File" is very good on it (and its from '75, not '76) and a couple of others arent bad, but apart from the El Mocambo songs, I think the rest is subpar. The El Mocambo songs are, as I've said before, truly wonderful.
"Still Life" I have a bit of an attachment to because it was MY first Stones tour. It's patchy and hasnt aged well but has its moments, Under my thumb, Time is on My Side and Just My Imagination are pretty good (I love the Hampton version of "Go Go" that they used for the promo video, far better than the one on the album). What I do like about that album is the way its mixed with the audience noise. It has a great atmosphere. And that intro and the opening chords of Under My Thumb just takes me back to Slane Castle exactly 22 years ago today....
"Flashpoint" - has some magnificent performances. "Factory Girl", "Ruby Tuesday", "YCAGWYW", "Rooster", "Paint It Black" are all superb, but are outshone by the most majestic version of "Sympathy" from Tokyo. Shame they butchered two incredible solos by Keith on this version because its the best version of the song I've ever heard them perform. In fact, that Tokyo show should have been the whole album. Best Stones show of the 90's. Theres some cracking non album bonus tracks on the CD singles too ("Play with Fire" and "I just wanna make love to you" for starters). Oh, plus "Flashpoint" has "High Wire" on it too, so thats worth an extra round of applause on its own. Terrific song!
"Got Live if You want it" - very muddy tapes of young girls screaming, with a band playing in the background. Almost all of it done in the studio - in fact, two songs are COMPLETELY done in the studio with screams overdubbed.
"Ya Ya's" - Simply the greatest live album ever made by anyone. And, in this version of "Midnight Rambler" possibly the musical highlight of the Stones' entire officially released output.
"Stripped" - Always liked this one because it was such a different concept than the usual live albums. Even if only 6 of the songs are actually from live performances and the rest is studio. Some good b-sides from these singles too.
"No Security" - gave this a spin again tonight for the first time in quite a while. There's some gems on it - especially the two BTB songs from Buenos Aires. "Out of Control" is especially breathtaking. I always wanted to hear "Memory Motel" on a live album - pity it had to be this version with Dave Matthews. Good to finally see "Gimme Shelter" on a live record (previously there were 2 live versions available, from '89 and '95, but the first was on a hard to find UK charity cassette single and the second was a CD single). "Respectable" I like on this too, although I think I'm in the minority!
maybe I'll burn my own "Live CD compilation". As long as the band dont get that idea and release such an album!
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| JaggaRichards |
I'm just hoping that the version of 'Rock Me Baby' is the one from the Orph, with Buddy Guy.
But it probably won't. They'd have to get permission from Buddy's label, and pay royalties to someone other than Jagger/Richards, and we know that ain't gonna happen!
BTW, I also think 'No Security' is an underated live album!
Great version of OOC.
The only worthwhile part of 'LYL' is the El Mocambo stuff.
The rest blows......... |
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| kahoosier |
LYL...the El Macombo is great but only four songs, and I have a boot with more material. But IMO, the versions of Happy and StarStar are just about the most rockin' I have ever heard. The downside is the version of SFTD is unlistenable.
Flashpoint is a musical encyclopedia, long and full, but very sterile. I almost never listen to this.
Got Live if YOu Want It is a marketing ploy even for the ridiculous 60's and it is a crying shame that this is the only official live release of the group's output with Brian. However, the shere lack of live Brain Material may help keep his myth and mystique alive.
No Security has great songs, but has always stood out as a mystery to me since this is the tour where Ron is supposedly dysfunctional from his drinking, but it does not show.
Ya Ya's is a classic, and after listening to the boot without the over dubs, I have no idea why they felt they needed to polish near perfection in the studio.
The Crystal Cat version s of the boots from the Astoria and Stockholm show the band as the elder statesman of the genre. Do these guys need another live album: certainly not. Is it a smart move? Who are we to question Mick and Mr.Cohl? I will buy it I am sure. BUT I wish it had been timed better. I certainly think that it does not take the place of the promosed new studio album. |
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| F505 |
My problem with all the post 1980 official live cd's is that they lack the live sensation. They are all too overproduced, overdubbed and edited so that there's no tension left. Best example: Hampton (perfect live registration of the 81 tour) versus Still Life (as dull as you can get). IMO only Ya-Ya's and Love you Live have that live rawness you experience when you are at a Stones concert. Strangely enough the live B-sides from Like A Rolling Stone and Wild Horses also have that rawness and therefore they are my favorite post 1980 official live recordings. |
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| SirMuddy |
Love you live is write with Keith blood. That's why I've done a "Licks you live", trying to find the same soul. The soul of Tara Richards. Tracks from "Les Abbatoirs", it's keith playing againts life & death. The rest of it is drowned in it... From Tara's death to Toronto's bust... Les Abbatoirs, you gotta move... Happy with this big shout overdub... you can't always get what you want... After that the tour ended... Before X-mas, Keith recorded "Run Rudolph Run" (one of his best track ever)... How's it's gonna be X-mas with dead all around home.... All I want for Christmas is a rock'n'roll electric guitar... (Keith answer to dead)... Toronto hit hard two... Listen to how rough they are on El mocambo's side (+Route 66, Dance little sister, hand of fate, crazy mama & Let's spend the night), "Keith is completly straight"... Listen to Keith recording in toronto (Worried life blues, Sing me back home...), Soul of Gram planning over... ... "Those whom the gods love grow young"... For Tara, Gram, Keith (Hartwood), Brian, Tara Brown... "Those whom the gods love grow young". Listen to "The harder they comes", Keith answer to the bust and all of the shit... " I rather be a freeman in man in my grave, than living as a puppet or a slave"... Yep he gonna find his way to heaven cuz he done his time in hell... Love you live! The only stones message: we love you & we love you LIVE!
That's why I also love four flick's Olympia... The Keith's extra-long joint smokin'in Doo doo doo doo doo... The perfect trip version of stray Cat blues (Look at Keith and Ron walking on the bass solo) and nearness of you... one love! Yes they are alive and well, completly drunk somewhere over the rainbow... waiting for the next incarnation (a.k.a next tour).
Anyway I love my stone alive too!
Jah bless yaallllll
Should I say that I was born with Love you Live? |
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| corgi37 |
I love Love You Live. It brings back so many memories. It so grandiose and over the top, with El Mocambo to bring it back down a bit. No Security i have played once, and doubt i ever will again. I should have realised it was crap, just by the cd cover.
Gazza is SO right on this. Releasing anything more from Licks is stupid. Its over. Get over it. More constructive time could have been spent by going into the dusty, bat-filled vaults, gingerly stepping over the bodies of people who used to work for them, and get out some unreleased stuff.
Or, hows this for a concept. Go into a studio, go armed with lyrics, chords, and even a little "germ" of an idea, get the weaving going again AND RELEASE SOME NEW FUCKING STUFF! |
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| Soldatti |
Amen!! |
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| kahoosier |
One tiny little consistent contradiction keeps popping up. I am sure that people who do not post do not understand we that do, and this is one of the reasons why: it has been too long since the Licks tour to do this, why now, what they should do is go to the vaults and release some of that old dusty stuff.
That is a bit of circular thinking that would have to confuse the casual concert goer. You know the ones; they pay for 90% of the stadium tickets and probably 75% of the arena tickets. |
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| Madafaka |
I did it before! "Licked All Over" rulez! Hahahaha!  |
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| corgi37 |
Releasing ANYTHING live is a mistake. People have had enough of it. 4 Flicks satisfied my "Licks" era Stones. I have moved on. I dont want any 1972/73, 1975/76, 1978 stuff released either. Thats for when they are finished. I dont want to be reminded how great they were!
I want to be convinced they still are! |
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| glencar |
Put me in the Still Life camp. But while I will certainly buy this new release, I will be wishing & hoping & praying for a new studio work. This live/best of thing is old already! |
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| justforyou |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
However, I do give a shit about the band's legacy and long term reputation
I seriously doubt it would tarnish their reputation to release more live material from licks. Many of the shows that didn't make the dvd have nice renditions worthy of a cd release. Commercially late ? Why worry ?
Speaking capitalism, it would make sense to have some sales momentum and exposure before releasing new studio tracks.
[Edited by justforyou] |
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| exilestones@netscape |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
When I posted my comments a couple of days ago, the general consensus was that the album would be 1 CD from the Licks tour and 1 CD from past live albums
Who started that rumor? Even so, 1 new Cd would still have some great performance on it. I search high and low for boots to find one great song. Wouldn't you love one great song. I'd appreciate it! |
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| Gazza |
>I seriously doubt it would tarnish their reputation to release more live material from licks. Many of the shows that didn't make the dvd have nice renditions worthy of a cd release. Commercially late ? Why worry ?
Well, we'll agree to differ I guess. 
The Stones as they are nowadays are seen by most people - including many here - as a nostalgia act with more interest in cash-ins than artistic integrity. Evidenced by their recording output which in recent years has been heavily balanced in favour of repackages, reissues and live albums as opposed to new material.
With a history as great as this band has had, it's fair enough to say that it's hard for them to match what they've already achieved. They have to live in the shadow of what's gone on before and that's a pretty tall order to match that.
However, Mick has said numerous times down the years that they have to keep making new records because he'd hate to see the Stones become just an oldies act. Keith has been quoted ad nauseam talking about "searching for the ultimate Rolling Stones record" like it's a holy grail to make the best music they can. (Achieving it isn't the most important thing, TRYING to is what matters).
That's why I think sticking out yet another live album a year after a tour has ended is artistically as well as commercially pointless (especially when they've already covered the tour so magnificently with "Four Flicks") even though it could be a pretty good CD!
[Edited by Gazza] |
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| Gazza |
>Who started that rumor? Even so, 1 new Cd would still have some great performance on it. I search high and low for boots to find one great song. Wouldn't you love one great song. I'd appreciate it!
the original info came from HMV Japan and was translated and repeated on various reputable websites by reliable sources such as IORR etc. Perhaps the announcement of a CD containing "well known songs" was lost in the translation!
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