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Topic: Check out Drudge Return to archive Page: 1 2
August 9th, 2005 02:05 PM
Mel Belli [quote]Monkey Woman wrote:

Yeah, like for instance the non-existing Iraqi WMD weapons? And beginning to "nudge toward democracy" by invasion is simply... beautiful. "You are the swamp, bastards, let us drain you or you will be obliterated." No wonder the Iraqis are now saying "Saddam is out, don't wait to leave."

It's nice to know they're nonexistent. We certainly didn't before the war. Every reputable intelligence agency in the world - including Russia's, Germany's and France's - thought they were.

As for the idea that that war can never lead to democracy, one need only point to modern Japan.

August 9th, 2005 02:15 PM
lotsajizz Japan's head of state is a monarch. That doesn't sound very democratic to me. The French in 1789 had the right idea about monarchs...as did the English once upon a time in the mid-1600's
August 9th, 2005 02:16 PM
monkey_man
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:


What other motivation could they possibly have had? You don't spend a half a trillion dollars for nothing.



The world is very quickly running out of easily accesible oil. We are sitting at the peak! China and India have economies that are beginning to roar. . .their middle classes are throwing down their bikes and buying cars.

Check 'em out:
http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
http://www.peakoil.org/
http://www.hubbertpeak.com/
August 9th, 2005 02:21 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
Japan's head of state is a monarch. That doesn't sound very democratic to me. The French in 1789 had the right idea about monarchs...as did the English once upon a time in the mid-1600's



Oh, good grief. Do I have to explain the difference between heads of state and heads of government? Or can I leave it to the elementary school teachers?
August 9th, 2005 02:22 PM
Monkey Woman
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
The UN -- and France, Britain and Germany -- said they had a deal going with Iran and the U.S. backed off to see if anything happened.

Exactly my point. It was convenient for the USA to let the UN and European countries do the talking while they themselves staying in the offing as a possible menace.

quote:
I call that a cave.[/quote)
Aren't you a bit harsh on what is actually realistic policy on the part of the US govt? Being a hero all the time is wonderful onscreen, but in real life it can run you into nasty spots.

[quote]Maybe you don't, but then again, you think anything the US does is "bad cop"

No I don't think that. I said it was a likely setup for the Iran crisis.

quote:
Regardless, the UN/European diplomacy led to Iran's declaration this week that it was resuming enrichment. Must be the dipshitlomats didn't have Iran on board like they thought.

Regardless, it's also been obvious for a long time now that Iran never seriously considered stopping their nuclear program. Having the atom bomb is considered by emergent countries as a status symbol and a step toward greater importance, for equally obvious reasons...

So Iran wants it, because it's surrounded by nuclear powers (Russia, Israel, Pakistan, India...) and they use alternatively diplomacy, deception or defiance to further their aims. That's why I said the UN/euro diplomacy was "buying time". But the Iranian govt must be counting on the US being too tied up in Iraq to do more than local airstrikes, which shouldn't stop Iran from just changing the locations of their research facilities... We'll see. I'm not an extralucid, so I won't make a guess at the future.
August 9th, 2005 02:28 PM
nankerphelge Whether sanctioned by the Administration or not, it was a cave. We should have gone in already and spared the rest of the world all the Euro/UN hot air (see global warming)

And Iran cannot "move" its facilities that quickly -- it ain't like completed bombs. The systems and technology needed to process uranium are not so portable. Yeah, they can be dismantled and moved in time -- but that is why we should have nailed them immediately.
August 9th, 2005 02:30 PM
Ten Thousand Motels Be scared. Be very scared. All the politicans and religious leaders are crazy. There are some things worse than dying though.

August 9th, 2005 02:35 PM
Monkey Woman
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:
It's nice to know they're nonexistent. We certainly didn't before the war. Every reputable intelligence agency in the world - including Russia's, Germany's and France's - thought they were.

Hello-o! Wake up call! MB, you should consider stopping to rely on Fox News or White House statements. "Downing Street memo", anyone?

quote:
As for the idea that that war can never lead to democracy, one need only point to modern Japan.


It would need a whole history lesson to highlight the differences between the two situations, so I'll just direct you to history books. I'll just stress again the idea of nation-building, something in which the White House haven't believed in for some years, when it was a key element of their policy toward Japan and Germany after WWII. I'm not making this up, it was in American security essays back in early 2002 advocating not to go to war []in these conditions[/i]. I'm not saying war can never have positive results, just that it's a bad idea to go to war to "save" people you actually despise, or lying to "sell" a war. It backfires after a time.
August 9th, 2005 02:35 PM
gimmekeef
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Be scared. Be very scared. All the politicans and religious leaders are crazy. There are some things worse than dying though.




Yes..like reading all the half cocked opinions on world affairs offered up here.....
August 9th, 2005 02:38 PM
Monkey Woman
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
Whether sanctioned by the Administration or not, it was a cave. We should have gone in already and spared the rest of the world all the Euro/UN hot air

Poor you, if that's what's you're really concerned about! You must suffer, there's so much political blah-blah-blah in every corner of the world!

[quoteAnd Iran cannot "move" its facilities that quickly -- it ain't like completed bombs. The systems and technology needed to process uranium are not so portable. Yeah, they can be dismantled and moved in time -- but that is why we should have nailed them immediately.

[/quote]
As I said, I'm not a seer nor a gambler so I won't make a guess.
August 9th, 2005 03:15 PM
nankerphelge "Poor you, if that's what's you're really concerned about! You must suffer, there's so much political blah-blah-blah in every corner of the world! "

Damn right I am concerned about it.
The UN is a total failure.
You didn't want to talk about the oil-for-food scandal either back when the story broke.

Well, have you read the Volcker Report out today?
Want to talk about it now -- you can't hide behind your I-don't-have-a-crystal-ball cop out any more.

Why the US continues to support this organization that has no balls, no teeth, and no credibility is beyond me.

Fortunately, you don't need a crystal ball -- I'll save you the trouble:

Iran is gonna go for the nukes, we are going to stop them.




August 9th, 2005 03:21 PM
time is on my side
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:

Yes..like reading all the half cocked opinions on world affairs offered up here.....



I've got some half cocked opinions of my own when it comes to world affairs. I've even posted them on this site before. If you want, I could dig through the archives and paste them here on this thread. Since nobody's interested, I won't bother. Which is the point. Nobody really cares about the political points of view expressed on this board. I've never known anyone's opinion, point of view, or mind to change because of arguments expressed in threads like these. In fact, if I dig through the archives, I'm sure I'll find the same people expressing the the arguments with almost identical worded posting in bygone threads that nobody remembers or cares about anymore. If someone is pro Bush, my guess is they're going to remain pro Bush. If someone is anti Bush, yeah they're going to remain anti Bush.

The only thing I care about, IS THE MUSIC. IS THE NEW ALBUM ANY GOOD??? If neo-con rocks and is a good song, then I'm for it. If it sucks then I'm against it. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MUSIC BABY. As far as I'm concerned, Jagger can say what he wants.
August 9th, 2005 04:25 PM
lotsajizz
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


Oh, good grief. Do I have to explain the difference between heads of state and heads of government? Or can I leave it to the elementary school teachers?



Why should there be a difference? Ever hear of 1776? or did your elementary school skip that?


August 9th, 2005 05:22 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
Why should there be a difference? Ever hear of 1776? or Did your elementary school skip that?



Double good grief. Do you think Britain is not a democracy because it has a queen? There are these things called constitutional monarchies, wherein monarchs play only a ceremonial role in government.
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