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Topic: Moby on Keith, Stones, sampling Return to archive
08-02-02 09:01 AM
sandrew Copyright 2002 The Age Company Limited
The Age (Melbourne)


August 2, 2002 Friday

SECTION: Entertainment Guide; Pg. 4

LENGTH: 1007 words

HEADLINE: Moby Inc.

BYLINE: Patrick Donovan

BODY:
Some of his peers call him a hypocrite, others call him lightweight, but to his millions of fans around the world he's simply Moby. Patrick Donovan meets the artist behind the product.

Moby's sick. He doesn't even look at me or shake my hand when I enter his room at the Lindrum Hotel on Flinders Street. A six-month promotional tour is wearing him out. "The doctor said it's a 24-hour flu. I'd rather be dreadfully ill for 24 hours than moderately ill for two-and-a-half weeks." You'd think an artist who sold more than 10 million copies of an album - in this case, 1999's Play - wouldn't feel the need to tour the world, cramming in as many interviews as possible. Surely, being creative on tour and spending days off in record shops sounds like a better prospect? He could have been hamming it up with the rest of us at the Royal Riot Sex Pistols tribute at the Espy the previous day.

But no, he hasn't bought a record in more than two years, and only DJs once a year.

"I refuse to complain about it (promotional tours), because it's better than staying at home with no one interested in what I'm doing, but it's been five days a week for seven months."

It sounds like he's the president of Moby Inc.

"Not so much the president of a company, more like the product of a company. You know, put the product in a box and ship it off somewhere."

Moby has been accused of many things, including hypocrisy. The vegan and former philosophy student used to include long essays about his favourite topics - such as animal rights, veganism, orthodox religions and the environment - in his album liner notes. But since he's become a star, stories abound about the wild parties he throws and how he walks around celebrity gatherings trying to rub his member on as many famous people as possible.

In some interviews, he said he chose vocal samples of downtrodden Afro-American blues singers simply for the emotion of their voice, yet in others clinically dismissed them as "just samples".

"I use samples because they're beautiful performances. Cultural context from whence the samples came is interesting, but it has nothing to do with why I'm using them.

I wasn't creating a homage to old blues vocalists; if anything, it was paying homage

to the fact that they were beautiful vocal performances."

I tell Moby that listening to the field recordings of the late Alan Lomax and prison blues albums makes my heart bleed, but he doesn't seem to think the singers he samples are singing so desperately and beautifully because they're actually heartbroken and messed up.

"When I say it's just a sound that sits on the album, I don't mean it in such clinical terms," he qualifies. "Because obviously, if I'm sampling someone's vocal performance, I'm sampling their personality and emotion that went into it, and that's always been my ethos."

The Rolling Stones' Keith Richards is one person to accuse Moby of exploiting blues artists - but then, the Stones stole plenty of songs without crediting the authors on their records.

"Keith has been saying that every Rolling Stones song was written because they were jamming on an old blues song. So, essentially, they were sampling old blues music before samplers were even invented. I met Keith and he wasn't too happy to meet me. He felt I was plagiarising the past. And I loved the Stones, but they plagiarised the past. Keith's son, Marlon, is a friendly acquaintance of mine. I saw him recently and he said, 'Keith finally listened to your record, and as a result of it he went out and bought a sampler and a sequencer, and he and Sheryl Crow have been working together on electronic music'. The great scheme of poetic justice."

For gospel fans, listening to the music is like going to church and believing, but what Moby did was dress gospel in dance beats, making it current and credible in clubbing culture while still retaining enough of the sample's essence to attract roots fans.

"When I released Play, I didn't think anybody was going to like it. And it has this odd, broad appeal. Normally, when a record is 'successful', I guess you could call it in industry terms, you have a lot of penetration in one specific demographic. But with Play, 15-year-old kids would come up to me with their parents and they would both want their copies signed."

Moby's musical output has always been somewhat schizophrenic; he's dabbled in everything from ambient to hardcore rave, house to punk rock. And while it would have been fun to see him do a Lou Reed, who followed the successful Sally Can't Dance LP with the feedback-soaked Metal Machine Music, you can't blame the diminutive American for backing up Play with an album similar in style.

Indeed, 18 is a synth-soaked, laidback affair with vocals by Moby and current artists such as Sinead O'Connor and Angie Stone, as well as some old blues singers Moby isn't interested in singling out.

What made him soften his hard philosophical lines and make happy, mellow music?

"I can trace it back to two simple musical epiphanies I've had. After (his punk rock record) Animal Rights came out, I was talking to my manager, and he said, 'Your hard rock music is good, but people really like your electronic music'. And that same night I went to a John Fogarty concert, and he was such a trouper. He played the hits, he was gracious, he had the gospel choir with him.

"He was so warm and giving, and those two things made me realise that if I could make records that people can actually love, that they can take into their lives and use it on a daily basis, then I should. It would make me happy, and I think of all of the wonderful albums in the world that have made my life a better place. If I can somehow make records that make other people's lives a better place, I should aspire to do so."

It's a simple aim. At times Moby sounds a bit clinical, but success doesn't seem to have gone to his head. You certainly can't fault his honesty and good intentions.

The latest single from 18, Extreme Ways, is out this week through Virgin.
08-02-02 09:38 AM
Joey Moby inducted Steely Dan into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame so he is alright in my book !

" Have you no shame Ronnie ?????? At long last .......have you no shame ? "

And now , read this :

H.R. Puffin Joe

YES !!!!!!!



08-02-02 09:40 AM
Boomhauer Here is where Moby has it wrong. The Stones used blues as an influence, not a fucking sampler. And Moby uses music in his, because he does that techo-pop stuff. This prick needs to go home and eat his vegetarian cheese.
08-02-02 09:46 AM
nankerphelge Yeah there is just a slight difference between sampling music played by someone else and picking up a geetar and playing it yourself. Christ I can play a fucking turntable -- where the hell is the talent in that?

And if Keith was sampling anything it was Ms. Crowe, not some blues records.

08-02-02 10:04 AM
Mr T uhh - copying & influence are 2 different things there Moby - at least Keith came up with the riffs & played the guitar himself. Just cuz some other song drove him to write it doesn't make any differnece. Afterall, wasn't it Keith that said there's only been one song ever written & all the rest were just interperetations on it? So by that account - everybody loses - especially Moby.
08-02-02 10:18 AM
Dandelion*
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
Yeah there is just a slight difference between sampling music played by someone else and picking up a geetar and playing it yourself. Christ I can play a fucking turntable -- where the hell is the talent in that?

And if Keith was sampling anything it was Ms. Crowe, not some blues records.





Very interesting article - particularly when read along with the one Mr. Hearst posted last night...

Nanker - there can be an enormous amount of talent involved in using appropriated sources in art as long as it's done by an ARTIST as opposed to an interior decorator juxtaposing images/sounds like a Martha Stewart mix and match napkin and towel set. Some of the things Moby said sound a tad bit like that - even though he's good at it in an "Architectural Digest" sort of way using the sounds of say an authentic Delta bluesman like a layer of terra cotta color paint tastefully sponged over beige stucco in the dining room. That's what probably pissed Keith off - but the FORM of sampling as a basis for creating something new can be just as authentic as making a noise out of a more tradition instrument.
08-02-02 10:24 AM
egon i LOVE that last album of moby.

play it whenever i can't sleep...
08-02-02 10:25 AM
nankerphelge Hey -- let me shit on Moby please!!
08-02-02 10:46 AM
patioaintdry Moby's a Dick, i'll harpoon the little fuck..
08-02-02 11:01 AM
mattb Moby and Noel Gallagher - separated at birth.
08-02-02 01:55 PM
gypsy Even Eminem slams Moby in his new hit song...ummm, I forget the name of the song, as I can't stand Eminem. But, anyways, there's some rivalry between Moby and Eminem...a little reminiscent of the Tupac-Notorious B.I.G. rivalry a few years ago. And, we all know how that turned out!
08-02-02 01:57 PM
sandrew Yeah, could they do us a favor and kill each other? As Keith said of the rap wars, "Carry on, boys."
08-02-02 02:16 PM
Dandelion* Alas - why do I bother...
08-02-02 02:29 PM
sirmoonie Now, now. Don't get discouraged because you are more equal than others. Its takes awhile for truth and logic to sink in.

Besides, I'm there for you sweetie. I'm there for you.
08-02-02 02:42 PM
sandrew Dandelion - I don't totally discount sampling or pop-techno music. It's clearly art - but low art. It's a secondary, junior art. Obviously, the sampler needs, in the first place, something to sample. All creative people are influenced by what came before them. But they canalize what inspires them and shape something new. That's what Moby and co. sample.

Take away the creator, and the sampler's left with computer software, his thumb, and his ass.
08-02-02 02:49 PM
sirmoonie Look bud, just back off okay? She's not interested in your techno-tripe. She knows all that stuff already. What she needs is a guy like me, not some pompous, avant-garde, digital poindexter with penchant for Moby Cock. Go back to bananaville, ya freakin' yutz!
08-02-02 03:54 PM
Dandelion* Now this is getting stimulating! Or is it simulating?
08-02-02 04:12 PM
gypsy Well, if you're lucky, it's both!
08-02-02 04:21 PM
Dandelion*
quote:
sandrew wrote:
Dandelion - I don't totally discount sampling or pop-techno music. It's clearly art - but low art. It's a secondary, junior art. Obviously, the sampler needs, in the first place, something to sample. All creative people are influenced by what came before them. But they canalize what inspires them and shape something new. That's what Moby and co. sample.

Take away the creator, and the sampler's left with computer software, his thumb, and his ass.



I don't know much about sampling and Moby et al - but in the realm of the "higher" arts appropriation of found objects is not art jr. by any means. My point is that a "creator" in the sense you use it, assuming one is creating something of an "authentic quality" - can use found objects (whether it's sound or image or idea) to create something that is just as much art Sr. as whatever it is you deem as a traditional art form. For instance - writing. The language a writer uses as a base is not created by them - even if they mess with it to the point that it's unreadable. A painter uses pigments on a canvas (as a traditional 19th c salon academic example) to paint a seascape - but what if the same person inlays fragments of found objects - such as cut outs from pop culture sources like magazines and newspapers and creates a similar seascape? Is that not art because it did not come as an abstract color blob from a brush or palette? Could it not have added layers of meaning because of the nature of referencing and juxtapositions?

You may be right that many of the practitioners of sampling are not very good artists - perhaps lazy and more so commercial product makers - entertainers in the lowest sense. I don't know about Moby. I haven't thought about him really at all and don't own any of his cds but from what I've heard of his I actually kinda like him. I find this interview interesting with regard to the issue of the blues and gosple songs he sampled. His attitude towards it - not taking the historical and loaded meanings they carry into account - and whether he is being niave or insensitive to an art form/s. I'd really have to look into it to make an opinion about his relative merits. In the meantime you might as well get juiced!
08-02-02 04:27 PM
Dandelion* Yikes - my spelling!

And also - looks like Keith found something interesting in this newfangled heretical toy as well...guess he sucks too!

Rock on dude!
08-02-02 04:42 PM
sandrew Well, I think the claim that Keith is now using a sequencer is dubious.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but let me take your writing analogy a little further. Sampling, in theory, is like using quotes from another writer. But the way it's used today is more like an essay or article being almost nothing BUT quotes - very few original sentences.
[Edited by sandrew]
08-02-02 04:57 PM
Dandelion*
quote:
sandrew wrote:
Well, I think the claim that Keith is now using a sequencer is dubious.

I agree with a lot of what you said, but let me take your writing analogy a little further. Sampling, in theory, is like using quotes from another writer. But the way it's used today is more like an essay or article being almost nothing BUT quotes - very few original sentences.
[Edited by sandrew]



I agree with you and do think it's probably a bunch of lazy charlatans grabbing stuff other people created, mixing it up a little and putting their stamp on it. And cashing in. I flip past MTV and VH1 too you know...At best that sort of thing is aural interior design if it is regarded as such without any pretensions. And it can be fun. But the technique need not be used that way...

For example - didn't the Stones "sample" Papa Was a Rolling Stone for a quick bit for Out of Control? Now that is what I mean about doing it right...

But it can also be done right by using nothing but appropriated sources. It just has to be done well.
08-02-02 04:59 PM
Sir Stonesalot Wait a minute...Bill Burroughs used to write entire books by using nothing but cut up phrases and sentences from other sources. But you certainly can't say that what he created, using other people's words, does not take artistic strength and creativity of the highest sort!

Burroughs took other peoples words and completely mashed it up into something completely different. And that is also what these DJs are doing.

Do I like what they are coming up with?...not really...Burroughs was much better at it. But still, just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is no longer art. I don't like the "Mona Lisa". I think it's dismal, small, and drab....just like sampled music...but that does not mean that I think that it's a lesser artform.

As much as I think Moby is a little twat, I still acknowledge him as an artist. If it's so easy to do, let's see YOU do it!
08-02-02 05:00 PM
Riffhard Who was it who said.."I don't know what art is but I know it when I see it"?

That pretty much sums it up for me.I know when something is pure shite and when it is,or borders on,art.I feel that Moby borders on art.He is no doubt talented at what he does.I just like,and respect,people who actully play their intruments more.I find most dance/techno/house music to pure unadulterated shit plain and simple.

I always use the analogy,some people like Mrs Green's 2nd grade finger painting more than they like Rembrant,but Rembrant is vastly more talented.In other words opinions are fine but don't for a minute try and tell me that these dance music idiots are any where near as talented as real artists!They are all a bunch of finger painters!!

Riffhard
08-02-02 05:06 PM
Sir Stonesalot I wasn't responding to you Dandy.

So what DID you get me for my birthday?

08-02-02 05:08 PM
sirmoonie Riffie,

That was actually Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart and he was trying to define obscenity/pornography, not art. Didn't give us much of standard, did he? Dumb ass lawyer fuck.

Just FYI.

Your honorary bro,

sirmoonie, C10
08-02-02 05:23 PM
Dandelion*
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:


So what DID you get me for my birthday?





A topless photo of a hot blonde!







FPM!
08-02-02 05:29 PM
Sir Stonesalot Yeah, well, ummm..you can keep it.

Oh yeah, just so you know...you were right about Bill & Zack. "Straight" from the horses mouth, so to speak.
08-02-02 05:34 PM
Riffhard Thanks Moonie! Yeah,now that I think about it that is where that line comes from.The difference between his honor and me is simple.I say if it's two beautiful women lapping each others clams that's art!If there is an erect penis anywhere in the picture or movie,well that is pure smut and should not be tolarated whatsoever.

Bottom line...Erect penis=the work of the devil smut porno.

Two drop dead gorgeous women doing all sorts of nasty things to each other=the work of God.Brilliant art!

Riffhard


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