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| Moonisup |
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| Cant Catch Me |
Hey, Monkey Woman, they say there's no such thing as recoverED addicts or alcoholics, just recoverING ones, since their addictions or alcoholism are only held in check while they abstain. Recovered suggests a permanent cure, whereas somebody like Woody would tell you that an addict or alcoholic is just one drink or one drug away from losing any recovery they've had. |
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| FotiniD |
quote:
Cant Catch Me wrote:
Hey, Monkey Woman, they say there's no such thing as recoverED addicts or alcoholics, just recoverING ones, since their addictions or alcoholism are only held in check while they abstain. Recovered suggests a permanent cure, whereas somebody like Woody would tell you that an addict or alcoholic is just one drink or one drug away from losing any recovery they've had.
Cant Catch Me, you can indeed recover. Part of my what I do is translating and transcribing lectures and seminars for therapists on drug and alcohol addiction, and what everyone stresses is that when you do want to recover, you do recover. You're not that frail as everyone thinks you are, once you're past the first weeks/months/years/whatever it takes.
And as for that article, are we sure it's 100% credible? It just sounded a little like a re-run of the first articles posted on Woody's issues with drinking - especially the "warned he could die if he does not stop drinking" part. Perhaps he indeed fell off the wagon, but maybe it's part of a program (?) to re-enter? Who knows? I'm just saying let's not jump into conclusions here, cause as said, Woody has been particularly active lately and he just didn't look drunk or spaced out to me.
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| Martha |
12 Step recovery is very much about taking responsibility for your actions, choices and life. It also is based on a medical model: alcoholism being an addiciton and a disease, which I personally do believe.
Alcoholism also (profoundly) effects the family and friends involved with the alcoholic in terms of their thinking and behaviors, and in fact, creates a pattern of behavior and life-styles that are "closed-off" and unhealthy. It is very insidious and if not treated will continue to affect family members for generations to come in terms of unhealthy patterns.
I am in Al-Anon working on my recovery in terms of those issues. I am learning through my experience this is something I will choose to do for the rest of my life. I prefer recovery as my base to operate from now, not the "rules" I learned growing up in my family of origin, which has passed the disease on to me.
Relapse is a part of the process for many recovering addicts. Many however, do not come back into recovery once they've relapsed.
93-95% of alcoholics die from this disease. That is a sobering number. Recovery is available all over the world now. The disease is so powerful and intense that this percentage of people struggling with it never do get sober. Ronnie may be in the majority.
Many people simply cannot stop using and maintain continuous sobriety without this type of support. They cannot stop. For those of you who can stop, you really cannot understand this. Be grateful.
I'm glad RR has also been life-saving for people. I have no personal experience with RR, so thanks for sharing about it.
12-Step recovery is not in bed with corporate America. In fact it operates out of a completely different base...non-hierarchically based. Not to mention money is not disperesed beyond the immediate Program and its use is only to keep it operating. In the Traditions it states that the 12 Step Programs have no opinion on outside issues.
The model is unique and (IMHO) very ahead of it's time in that regard. Oh, all 12-Step programs are spiritually based.
This is a very deep subject.
Peace to all who want it.
Martha |
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| jb |
This may very well delay and or cancel the Feb 8th, 2005, opening date at the Trocedero in Philly. |
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| jpenn11 |
Thanks Martha |
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| jb |
quote:
jpenn11 wrote:
Thanks Martha
Yeh, thanks again Martha!!!
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| doo doo doo Dude |
I understand that Taylor is in rehab as well for Twinkie addiction. Good luck MT! |
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| Joey |
Thanks So Much Martha .....
It is always so good to hear from you ESPECIALLY since you are a true friend of
Frisky ! |
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| kahoosier |
Martha you RULE!!!! |
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| sirmoonie |
Thank god for booze. Ronnie would still be all coked up without it.
Booze!
Go! Go, Ronnie, Go! Go! Go, Ronnie, Go!
Moof Piss! |
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| BILL PERKS |
HOW CAN I STOP,ONCE I START |
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| Poplar |
I'M THE WORST KIND OF GUY FOR YOU TO BE AROUND
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| MarthaMyDear |
I agree with practically everything you've said in this thread so far, Ten Thousand Motels!!!  I first started going to AA and other 12 Step Programs (NA, Alanon, etc.) back in 1986 and relapsed a number of times before being able to maintain on-going sobriety and staying clean from drugs, etc.... Relapse is not uncommon when you are trying to get clean and/or sober, IMHO (although, of course, you're best off trying to avoid it!!!)... Right now, I have almost 14 years clean and sober (on Thanksgiving), according to 12 Step philosophy (18 years if it wasn't for one slip one night getting slightly drunk on wine coolers and Coors Lights!!! UGH!!! BAD CHOICE!!! lol................ :P   lol............ LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! )... In all honesty, AA and other 12 Step programs helped me to get and stay sober BUT, and I DO MEAN BUT!!! *** I *** was a lucky person, IMHO, in a somewhat unique situation where practically EVERYONE I worked with at my work was either IN AA, NA, etc., or heading there SOON (if they were lucky) AND my sponsor then was my manager at work, also, AND I was in a band then and we were ALL clean and sober with my two guitarists being my CO-WORKERS... SO, BASICALLY, everywhere I WENT and everyone I KNEW, BASICALLY, was clean and sober so I did not really HAVE to seek-out support since it was in my life 24/7, basically!!! So, I was LUCKY in that fact and I do believe that because of that unique situation and by going to AA, NA, etc., meetings, I was able to get and remain clean and sober after the few relapses I had... BUT, after having gone to these programs for so long and what I've experienced in them, I have to agree with TTM... To me, programs like AA, etc., are, to be blunt about it, EXTREMELY cult-like and after awhile, that cult-like feeling at meetings REALLY just got to be WAY, too annoying... So, awhile ago, I started looking into other recovery programs, which, SADLY (but hopefully this will change, I PRAY!!!), don't get as much attention as 12 Step programs do, etc., and I actually have found them to be very good!!! I started going to this one program/group called Women For Sobriety which is not TOO different from AA, etc., but lacks the cult-like feeling of 12 Step programs, etc.... It's a spiritual program, also, which is one of the things I DID like about AA, etc.... But, the negative things about AA, etc., basically kept me from wanting to continue going (to AA)!!! Anyways, so the excellent thing is that I have just moved to a city which has a couple of these meetings close by (there are not a lot around, unfortunately, like 12 Step groups, etc.)!!!
But, anyways... I am still clean and sober and the fact of the matter is that I DO have a good amount of recovery under my belt and I lost the obsession to drink and use a LONG time ago and I fully believe that the reason why I am clean and sober today is because I WANT to be clean and sober... I WANTED to be clean and sober a long time ago and have always wanted that, and as far as getting and staying clean and sober... No matter what type of recovery program you choose, whatever works for YOU is all that fricking counts, IMHO!!! And, I'm glad to see some posts about RR, etc., 'cause I do believe that these other programs out there have helped A LOT of people and are NOT getting the attention they deserve at ALL and, hopefully, I can be a person who can help to change that, at some point, I HOPE!!!
Anyways, like they say... Thank you for letting me share!!! lol......... And, here's an interesting web site for the fuck of it: http://www.aadeprogramming.com
ROCK THE HELL ON!!! PEACE!!!
*** Martha ***
P.S. (Oh, yes... And, I don't believe the disease theory either... What a load of fucking crap... I always bit my fucking tongue when I did the First Step... I believe that kidding oneself is too dangerous, so whatever... PEACE THE HELL OUT!!! )
[Edited by MarthaMyDear] |
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| MarthaMyDear |
And, kahoosier, thank you VERY, VERY MUCH for your post,
also!!! When you said: "Ten Thousand
Motels,thank you so much for mentioning rational recovery.
In the late 80's, 12 steps did me no good and rational
recovery saved my life and carreer. I think you need to be
stronger, or at least more greatly motivated to use RR than
12 steps."
A-FUCKING-MEN TO THAT!!! Not only have I felt like a
COMPLETE OUTSIDER MY WHOLE, ENTIRE LIFE but, ALSO, when I
was going to 12 Step groups and just hating some of the
things about them and not actually KNOWING there were other
kinds of programs (help) for me out there!!! LUCKILY, I
started meeting people who took me to RR, etc., and I
believe these alternatives have saved my life!!!
Anyways, some good posts, here!!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!
Take care, you guys, and PEACE!!!
CHEERS!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| UGot2Rollme |
Thank you very much to the 2 Martha's for sharing so openly your personal experiences with sobriety, the 12 steps, etc. It is very enriching to hear others tell their stories - someday I may share mine but I am still in a very tenuous situation with respect to alcohol.
I have started a list of musicians who have achieved sobriety as I believe it is especially difficult for them given the nature of the biz. Anyway, here is my list in no particular order - would appreciate if anyone could add to it:
Eric Clapton
John Hiatt
Steven Tyler
Joe Perry
Brad Whitford (Aerosmith)
Joey Kramer (Aerosmith)
Tom Hamilton (Aerosmith)
Ronnie Wood (hang in there, Ronnie!)
Greg Allman
Pete Townsend
Kevin Rowland (Dexy’s Midnight Runners)
Phil Lesh
Ringo Star
Warren Zevon (RIP)
Elton John
Alice Cooper
Stevie Ray Vaughan (RIP)
Stevie Nicks
Ice T
Johnny Cash (RIP)
Wynonna Judd
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| MarthaMyDear |
YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME, UGOT2ROLLME!!! One
thing I want to say, though, ok.?!?!?! AA and 12 Step
programs DID help me to get and stay clean and sober so if
you try AA or NA or any other 12 Step program and you LIKE
it, then by all means, go for it and good for you!!!
I just like to try all kinds of avenues and
everyone's likes and experiences, etc., are different and
what works for one person, *** I *** believe, doesn't
necessarily work for EVERYONE... I just say that whatever
makes YOU happy and/or works for YOU, then that is
EXCELLENT!!! To be honest, I am kind of in
the middle... I do hope you find something that helps you,
of course, and gives you strength... AA and other programs
like that are listed in the phone book if you think you
might want to check that out (if you haven't done so
already)... Here is a site on recovery resources, also:
http://recovery.org
If you need someone to talk to and with about this, please
PM me... It helps me, also, to talk with someone who
struggles with this also, ok.?!?!?! And, you
are NOT alone!!!
Anyways, I want to add to your list and I'll probably
remember more people later on but Anthony Keidis and John
Fruciante (at least) of the Red Hot Chili Peppers should be
on that list as well as The Ramones (all???), Exene (at
least) of X, Mike Ness of Social Distortion, Jack Grisham
(original lead singer of T.S.O.L.), Keith Morris (lead
singer of the Circle Jerks), and I'll try to think of some
non-punk musicians, also... lol............ But, for now...
Jeffrey Lee Pierce of the Gun Club (RIP), SLASH, DUFF
MCKAGEN, and all of the rest of the members of Velvet
Revolver, METALLICA, MEGADEATH, OZZY AND HIS KIDS
(LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not quite so sure about Ozzy but
his kids are clean and sober)!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!! :P lol......
And, I will have to think of more!!!
Basically, go to any AA meeting and you'll feel like you're
backstage!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry...
That's a bad joke, but in L.A., it be true... lol.......
LOL!!!!!!!!!! Ok.... Have to go to sleep!!! lol........
Thank you for your post, UGOT2ROLLME, and take care,
ok.?!?!?! TALK TO YOUU SOON!!!
PEACE!!!
*** Martha ***
P.S. (David Bowie, also!!! PEACE!!! ) |
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| MarthaMyDear |
OH!!! AND, WHAT A DAMN HOTTIE!!! ROBERT DOWNEY JR.!!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!! I know he's not a rock star but, man...
HE very well might as well be!!! lol........ LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
OH!!! And, at least Dave Navarro and Perry
Farrell of Jane's Addiction... And, actually, I think Tommy
Lee, also!!! Maybe some or all the members
from Poison, but I'm not sure (?!?!?!)... Niki Sixx from
Motley Crue (?!?!?!)... Basically, you're lucky to be
recovering if you have a drug and/or alcohol problem when
you look at a list like this 'cause, basically, everyone who
was anyone is alive (most of these people are) because they
are recovering!!! ROCK ON!!! PEACE!!!
*** Martha ***
P.S. (ALL of Aerosmith are recovering, which is EXCELLENT!!!
PEACE!!! )
[Edited by MarthaMyDear] |
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| IanBillen |
Poor Woody,
How hard it must be to drink before shows, after, at parties, events and everything eles for fun, social interaction, as part of your life style and then to realize you must not partake anymore.
Same goes for smoking. All those years and then you have to enter a different mode.
I hope the boys had an eye on him? Maybe they did.
Wonder who told him to get in there besides the doc?
Ian |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
IanBillen wrote:
Wonder who told him to get in there besides the doc?
Ian
Mick for sure!! same situation in 2002 before the licks tour.. |
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| F505 |
I know one thing for sure: when I saw Woody on stage at the Vredenburg concert last year he wasn't sober. He had a strange look and therefore his playing wasn't too solid either. So I guess he was still drinking during the Licks tour... |
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| UGot2Rollme |
Wow - quite a list. Thanks Martha - you have PM.
Goodnight! |
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
Cant Catch Me wrote:
Hey, Monkey Woman, they say there's no such thing as recoverED addicts or alcoholics, just recoverING ones, since their addictions or alcoholism are only held in check while they abstain. Recovered suggests a permanent cure, whereas somebody like Woody would tell you that an addict or alcoholic is just one drink or one drug away from losing any recovery they've had.
Yes, you have a point, CCM. Recovery is always "up to now", and there can always be a relapse and that's part of what makes alcoholism a devilish problem (wether one labels it an disease or behavioral disorder or whatever).
I should have said that, once an alcoholic has overcome the delusions of not having a problem with alcohol ("I can stop when I choose" and other lies to oneself) and found the motivation (and the help) to stay sober, he or she can see someone else drink and not give in to the urge to drink too. And obviously, Ronnie has not reached that stage yet. 
[Edited by Monkey Woman] |
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| Martha |
I also can relate to having trouble sticking with the AA program. It is too long a story to tell here, but suffice it to say I learned there is a HUGE difference between healthy and unhealthy 12 Step meetings, whatever the focus of them may be.
The unhealthy meetings do have cliques, people break anonymity within the meeting and ouside, they do not have healthy (or any) boundaries and also do not follow the Traditions and Concepts and other World Service information accordingly. They sorta make up the rules as they go...which is in and of itself alcoholic behavior.
I left my f2f (face to face) Al-Anon meeting that had these sorts of problems after beating my head against the wall for two years trying to detach from a member who was dominating and controlling the meeting with anger and self-righteousness. It was an important learning curve that I had to go through, but it was a difficult period of my life.
I began to seek out my Al-Anon recovery support on-line a couple of years ago (when I came here in fact). I found two meetings that are wonderful, and that DO follow the Traditions and stick to the principles rather than go off on a zillion dysfunctional tangents. I learned there is a vast difference between a healthy meeting and a dysfunctional meeting..or a non-meeting. Finding healthy support on-line has made all the difference to my life.
There seem to be more unhealthy AA meetings than healthy from what I hear when I talk to friends in that program. Martha your story sounds familiar to me.
I'm glad you have found good support out there. Go Martha!
:-)
We all need someone we can lean on. |
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| jb |
Thank you to the two(2) Martha's for sharing your personal stories with your extended "stones" family. The both of you are to be admired and loved ........ |
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| Joey |
Thank you to both of the lovely Martha's for sharing your personal stories with your extended "stones" family. Truly , TRULY , the both of you are to be admired and loved ..................................
Oh , ................and : God Bless
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| MarthaMyDear |
Martha, I will reply to your, of COURSE, WONDERFUL and
ALWAYS NICE posts later on as I'm waiting for the cable guy
to get here, etc. (unfortunately, not Jim Carey, as I could
use the entertainment!!! ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE!!!
HE!!! HE!!! )... Wouldn't that be cool if you
order cable and Jim Carey showed-up?!?!?! Um, yes...
ANYWHO!!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And, thank you,
everyone, for being a friend of
(especially you, J&J!!!)... ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!! LAUGHING
HARD!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok... LOL!!!!!!! HAVE TO GO!!!
YouGot2RollMe, I'm emailing you right now and will email
you more later on this evening, also, ok.?!?!?!)
Anyways, take care, PEACE, and DO ROCK ON!!!
PEACE!!!
*** Martha *** |
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| Moonisup |
quote:
F505 wrote:
I know one thing for sure: when I saw Woody on stage at the Vredenburg concert last year he wasn't sober. He had a strange look and therefore his playing wasn't too solid either. So I guess he was still drinking during the Licks tour...
I had that feeling during most of the Licks Euro concerts, and when I told that or posted that, I clearly remember people telling me, and a few others who saw it that we posted rubbish, specially at other boards who don't wanna hear any bad things about 'their rolling stones' |
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| Gazza |
I think the general opinion was maybe that he was clean for the US leg and playing his skinny arse off but by the time the tour was in Europe he had slipped into some old habits again and was inconsistent. However, he was pretty good at the shows I saw and especially at Wembley on 29th August. Whatever shortcomings he may have had at some shows, I'm sure he was still "at the gig" more than the "No Security" shows and BTB'98 European tour where he hardly seemed to play at all.
A lot of the reviews of the Olympia show last year seemed to suggest that he was on a different planet for about the first half of that gig and that Mick visibly asked the sound people to turn him down. Certainly, if you watch the DVD, they dont focus on him too much in the early numbers. |
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| MarthaMyDear |
Thank you, Gary... You are very much a friend of !!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE!!! HE!!! HE!!!
CEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEracking-up!!!
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P LOL!!!!!!!
LAUGHING!!!!!!!! SNICKER!!! SNICKER!!! Just
playing... TAKE CARE!!!
*** Martha *** |
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