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Topic: Keith-Egomaniac or Low Self Esteem? Return to archive Page: 1 2
07-24-03 11:42 PM
BigMac It's just like Keith and his egomaniac ways to erase someone elses parts because he wants all the recognition (Jones's parts on Honky Tonk Women from Feb 69- and he might have needed to, we;'ll never know cause it's not available). Don't get me wrong, I love Keith but he seems to have a bit of a complex about songs.

Examples:
-He didn't play on Sway or Winter therefore those songs will never be played live
-He erased his future brother Ronnie's parts on IORR (which I'm sure he needed to do, but you didn't see Charlie with the tape machine redoing the drum part on YCAGWYW or IORR)
-He would never allow Time Waits For No One to be played live, cause he knows thats Taylor's song (although they have played Moonlight Mile which may not have had him on the original track, although the acoustic sounds like Keith)
07-25-03 12:32 AM
sammy davis jr. Yeah Keith trashes most anything he wasn't involved in....I wish he'd take a good hard look at his guitar playing these days- very average.
07-25-03 01:46 AM
Happy Motherfucker!! Keith is anything but average. Sure Keith is not the most technical player, never has been, but he does something no one else can do, be himself and that's pretty damn good.
07-25-03 01:59 AM
gypsy It seems like a lot of Brian fans really don't like Keith. That argument is just so old and immature. Actually, I believe Keith really genuinely sincerely LOVES all their songs, and is quite the perfectionist. He even says that Otis Redding's version of "Satisfaction" is the best...it was the sound Keith says he was aiming for, but never achieved. So, Keith trashes his own work...not just others'...because he wants it to be a certain way. I don't think it has anything to do with him wanting all the credit.
07-25-03 02:44 AM
stonedinaustralia i'm no psychologist but some of keith's attitudes - (as far as i percieve them - after all what do any of us really know about him) - do seem to be consistent with the "only child" syndrome (which he was) - esp. one with a reportedly doting mother - he's quite possibly just used to getting his own way - all specualtion on my part but a theory nonetheless

in any event it's this steely determination and self belief which, imo, is one on the reasons he has survived (both physically and professionally) all these years

showbiz is no place for the fainthearted self-doubter
07-25-03 09:45 AM
Joey " I don't think it has anything to do with him wanting all the credit. "

I would like to nuzzle you .


JJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ JACK JACKY !

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V

07-25-03 10:04 AM
nankerphelge Personally, I get tired of his bad-mouthing Mick, and his half-in-the-bag schtick, and his crooning of late.

But then I listen to Let It Bleed or Exile and I quickly accept him for what he is -- an incredibly gifted musician who somehow taps into grooves that others cannot hear. Top that off with the original bad-ass image and lust for life, and I think he has earned the right to do as he sees fit!

07-25-03 10:08 AM
Joey " Top that off with the original bad-ass image and lust for life, and I think he has earned the right to do as he sees fit! "

I would like to clutch you to my bosom and tickle you with my erect nipples whilst I weep and sh## liquid .

JACKY !
07-25-03 11:18 AM
Nasty Habits I find his current persona very irritating - it is uselessly and offputtingly arrogant and childish. I do think he has committed his fair share of sabotages in the last few years and think that if he really and truly had his act together he would never let the stage sound be what it is. He likes the money they make from the big blow outs, but he bitches about it, too. Same with recordings -- is he really so under Jagger's thumb that he can't insist that things sound more the way he wants them? If he is such the master manipulator of Jagger, why don't Stones albums and shows sound like the way he claims they "should" sound? Keith likes to shoot his dope and have it, too.

This of course doesn't change the fact that Keith is the best rock and roll guitar player this side of Link Wray and that the way he plays Chuck Berry guitar solos doesn't define for me the word "abandon". Or that Sympathy for the Devil doesn't have the best rock and roll solo of all time. Or that the slide guitar interplay on "Let It Bleed" isn't just too brilliant to ever be comprehended. Or that "Thru and Thru" isn't the most amazing moment on Voodoo Lounge and that the truest moments on most Stones albums since the big "comeback" have been Keith's.

But all that stuff doesn't keep him from pissing me off whenever he says "It's great to be anywhere", hugs that guitar with that little cutie pie cherub grin or slags Mick in public, still acting out. Only child syndrome indeed, SIA! You been reading your Dr. Filth!
07-25-03 04:05 PM
sandrew I remember reading (in Esquire, '93) Mick saying that Keith is "very generous" about letting Mick's guitar parts stay on the record.

He described playing the riff to songs he writes (such as "Highwire") then telling Keith, "That's the way it goes, but you can do it better."

Keith's reply: "'That sounds perfectly OK to me.'"

Doesn't sound like only-child syndrome to me.

I've always thought of Keith as being very humble -- proud of his accomplishments, sure; why shouldn't he be? -- but always a humble sort of gentleman.

Just consider how gracious he is about heroes like Muddy Waters and Buddy Guy; the guy is still in thrall to the bluesmen who influenced him.

And how many times has he downplayed his (to my mind, highly original) style as a guitar player? "Two fingers, five strings, an asshole, and you've got it." Or: "Some may say it's highly original or, 'Goddamn it, that guy can only do three things!'"

Then there's his constant insistence that he doesn't "write" songs; he only channels them through a cosmic "antenna." "Angles told me," and all that.

Again, sounds pretty humble to me.

As for his refusal to play "Winter," "Sway" or "Time Waits for No One," I've never heard of it. They gave "Winter" a go-round at the Toronto rehearsals last year. The more likely explanation as to why they don't play those songs, I look to Mr. Wood and his utter inability to re-create Taylor's majestic guitar solos.
[Edited by sandrew]
07-25-03 04:44 PM
jb Yes Sandrew....my mailman, a huge Mick Taylor era fan, said what would've happened if MT stayed on....I think it is reasonable to assume more classic albums than we have had with the "more stonsey" yet substantially less talented Mr. Wood. I was watching my new DVD copy of L&G today on my new Dell lap top at work, and the way Keith and MT played together was so brilliant that I can almost cry....Keith was beyond great and MT's lead just gave every song the kick ass it needed to rock...You see , that's the biggest problem , the songs still sound good, but they don't rock hard anymore...too slow..no lead guitar, no solos....
07-25-03 04:47 PM
Joey Has anyone here seen my Dope ?????????
07-25-03 05:58 PM
steel driving hammer One of the reasons the Stones have been around so long is quite simple -

Ronnie and Charlie's low self esteem.
07-25-03 07:43 PM
Mother baby
quote:
sandrew wrote:
Then there's his constant insistence that he doesn't "write" songs; he only channels them through a cosmic "antenna." "Angles told me," and all that.
[Edited by sandrew]



I like that "antenna" theory. It seems like a really accurate assesment to me. I kind of function like that sometimes....grasping at an idea without being able to articulate it properly. Some times it works, sometimes it doesn't. Anyway I think he's nailed it.
07-25-03 07:46 PM
stonedinaustralia
quote:
Joey wrote:
Has anyone here seen my Dope ?????????



yes - and i must say it was delicious

can you get anymore??
07-25-03 08:04 PM
gypsy Yeah! And while we're at it--where's my blow, Joey?
07-25-03 08:05 PM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:


yes - and i must say it was delicious

can you get anymore??



Damnit. I *wondered* why Joey's ChibaVault (TM) was empty.

As for our boy Keith...

I'll try to say it as simply as possible.

He's reacting to people who say he's irrelevant by trying to generate as much attention as possible. Subconciously or not.

He feels like he's 'carried' this band for forty years, which is for the most part true, although he ignores the fact that frequently Mick carried him through the seventies on a stretcher. Not in terms of guitar playing, but in terms of living.

Ronnie and Charlie, as someone said, are the reason why the band is still around. If Taylor hadn't left, they would have broken up by 1980. Keith would've had no sounding board, and despite the fact that there've been years that Keith's really really *really* mistreated Ronnie, I think they have some sort of ancient art of weaving thing goin' on that keeps 'em together even through these years when they've really been hit or miss.

Keith is Keith, I guess. He doesn't want to be old, even though he's never really come out and said it. He keeps himself relevant by slagging Mick and Ronnie in the press and going through costume changes like Mick, trying to ignore the arthritis and the fact that his kids are growing up and he doesn't jet-set around like he used to.

In short, Keith has never switched carrers for forty years. He's got issues, yeah.

But is he one of the greatest guitar players, songwriters, and all around pop culture icons to ever grace our planet?

"If he isn't, I'll give the Koi Pond Treatment to my amp, Ronnie!"

-tSYX --- I'm losing my touch...
07-25-03 09:07 PM
GimmeExile Why did they rehearse SWAY and WINTER if Keith doesn't want to play them? Those are two of my favorite tunes...
07-25-03 09:11 PM
steel driving hammer
quote:
GimmeExile wrote:
Why did they rehearse SWAY and WINTER if Keith doesn't want to play them? Those are two of my favorite tunes...



Cause the rehearsals didn't work/sound the way they wanted.

But Winter is an easy song to do.........
07-25-03 09:12 PM
Maxlugar Personally, it is a matter of opinion if Keith is an egomanic. It depends how much of an egomanic you yourself are. You see, Freud once said of ego: "One needs to...

<--------- Good Lord Maxy! What the hell are you doing???

MACKY!!
07-25-03 09:17 PM
nankerphelge Wow!

I think just having that avatar on my computer screen is illegal in Virginia!!

Fortunately the dog -- we'll call her/him Fifi -- had the good sense to look away from the camera!!

[Edited by nankerphelge]
07-25-03 09:25 PM
LadyJane
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
i'm no psychologist but some of keith's attitudes - (as far as i percieve them - after all what do any of us really know about him) - do seem to be consistent with the "only child" syndrome (which he was) - esp. one with a reportedly doting mother - he's quite possibly just used to getting his own way - all specualtion on my part but a theory nonetheless

in any event it's this steely determination and self belief which, imo, is one on the reasons he has survived (both physically and professionally) all these years

showbiz is no place for the fainthearted self-doubter



Good point, SIA!

Keith does demonstrate the "only child syndrome" and I should know because I am one.

His complete and utter loyalty to the band is another example of the "syndrome".

Sorry boys and girls, I cannot be objective on this topic. I love Keith..Thru and Thru..

LadyJ.
07-25-03 11:27 PM
AnitaX I don't understand the animosity towards Keith regarding the setlist. The following is from a recent interview:

"A question about exactly what songs the band might perform did not offer any
concrete answers, but did lead to an interesting discussion about how the
band shapes its set lists on any given night. "The thing is," he noted,
"that there's a guy up there called the singer." (Interestingly, during the
interview, singer Mick Jagger was never mentioned by name.) "And if you're
the guy who's gonna sing the things, you're going to have the main say. I
might throw in a few suggestions, along the line of 'Oh, why don't we do
this tonight?' Oh, you got a sore throat. So that's why. But there's so many
different variables. Like, we did that song the last time we played here. .
. .But my attitude is that, well, you're the guy that's gotta sing it, and I
might change the order of songs in a set list, but basically I learnt this
when I went out on my own with the Winos [the Xpensive Winos, a Richards
solo project], that if you're the one out there that's got to pull the song
off, if you really don't feel like doing that one that night, then it's
better off you don't do it. It's a bit of push and shove at times. It's all
down to weird little logistics, throats, temperament, laughs, whatever."

As for the "only child syndrome", Mick agrees and went into it rather extensively (for him) on that Charlie Rose interview...
07-26-03 10:37 AM
egon
quote:
Mother baby wrote:


I like that "antenna" theory. It seems like a really accurate assesment to me. I kind of function like that sometimes....grasping at an idea without being able to articulate it properly. Some times it works, sometimes it doesn't. Anyway I think he's nailed it.



well if it works like that than they may want to point that antenna in another direction, cos the last time we ended up with 'don't stop'.
07-26-03 10:55 AM
Nasty Habits
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
Wow!

I think just having that avatar on my computer screen is illegal in Virginia!!

Fortunately the dog -- we'll call her/him Fifi -- had the good sense to look away from the camera!!

[Edited by nankerphelge]




My powerbook actually exploded when that picture downloaded. Max and whatever that thing is owe me some money.

"Arch my back and call me furry, Ronnie!"

07-26-03 11:20 AM
Sir Stonesalot Maxy...what in God's name were you thinking?
07-26-03 11:41 AM
sirmoonie Maxwell is Saudi Arabia and that poodle is the U.S.

"Bandar my bush hard, Ronnie!"
07-26-03 01:07 PM
gypsy First, I have to comment on Maxy and the dog again. I was wondering if Maxy got stuck, and if so, did his parents have to bring a garden hose in the house to hose them down and pry them apart? Just wondering...
I love Keith...and like I wrote above--he criticizes himself an awful lot too. He puts pressure on himself, and is rarely happy with how the songs turn out...he is constantly saying that he wishes he would have mixed a certain song this way or that way, etc.
And have you noticed it's usually Brian fanatics who love to bash Keith?
07-26-03 03:33 PM
Sir Stonesalot Hey Moonie....I've got a good bit of Scot in me. My Gram is "off the boat". She was born & raised in Glasgow, came over when she was 15.

I even have a kilt.
07-26-03 03:44 PM
sirmoonie Ay, feelin' me roots, bot! Need to roll some sheep in the heather and bray like a drunkin piper.

Ever been back SS? Parts of it are incredible. As my dad used to say "I love Scotland. Everybody drinks."
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