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| Gazza |
After seeing that excellent French/German "Let It Bleed" TV special last week I thought it would be a good time for us to do another "tree".
Some of you may recall we did a CDR tree of the Wembley 11.6.99 a couple of years back,but what I have in mind for this one is a bit more ambitious - namely a 40th anniversary compilation VIDEO. The offer would be open to any "Rocks Off" registered user anywhere in the world, although if demand is too high we might have to limit the amount of sign-ups..
This is obviously a bit more problematic because whereas you can copy CDR's without any loss in sound quality with each generation,its different with videos. Theres also a bigger problem with the difereing formats used worldwide - for those who dont know,North America and Japan use NTSC whereas the rest of the world use PAL format.
My Stones video collection is about 600 hours worth of footage in total. I have a good idea of what I could put on a video which I think would give a great selection of Stones footage to share with everyone - all footage would be full songs,there would be some promos,mostly live footage (all pro-shot films) and TV appearances - and in as low generation as possible to keep the picture quality of a high standard. Ive drawn up a shortlist off the top of my head of about 6 hours worth of stuff which I'm considering including. (Suggestions are welcome!)
I'm not planning to use more than one song from each "event",as little as possible from home video releases and for promo videos, I'm avoiding the obvious ones that yous ee on MTV,VH1 all the time that I presume everyone would have (eg if we're including a promo from "Tattoo You" it wouldnt be "Start Me up" but the less frequently seen "Worried About You" or something like that)
Nearly all of this footage I have in EXC- quality or better, although theres some stuff where I'd like upgrades in quality before I use the footage I have ("ladies & gentlemen" for example).
The idea I have is that as the "seed" of the video tree I'd make,say, 10 copies of the compilation for "branches" (either in trade format or blanks & postage if youre in Europe), who would then be expected to make up to 5 copies or so for their "leaves" (obviously it all depends on demand)
The copies I'd be sending to anyone would be in PAL format. Over here you can digitally convert a NTSC format video to PAL for about �15 ($23) for a 3 hour tape without any noticeable loss in quality. I'd imagine its much the same to do the reverse. My suggestion would be that if youre the "branch" then the people youre making the copies for would share the cost of any transfer with you.
Length of tape is another hurdle. In Europe,our tapes are 180 and 240 minutes in length. In North America it seems to be 120 and 160. Can you buy 180 minute tapes over there? It could end up that we do a 6 hour compilation (ie two tapes). Would that be practical?
Note that for reasons of picture quality I'll be making any copies in "standard/normal speed" format (no extended play,double speed or anything like that)and any copies made after that should be done the same way. At the end of it all, no one should get a video tape thats more than two generations down from my master copy. It wont be a professionally edited piece of work (I dont have that technology!) like youd expect on a TV special,just 70 or so separate and diferent Stones songs & features
Anyway,heres the first short list :
Jumpin Jack Flash - montage from "let it Bleed" special
Arthur haynes Show 8.2.64 - I Wanna be your Man see �the white room� 31.12.95)
NME Pollwinners concert 26.4.64 - I just wanna make love to you
Rice Krispies Jingle 1964
Gather Moss Pathe-EMI film October 1964
Tami Show Oct.1964 - Its all over now
RSG Nov. 1964 - Little red rooster
Quoi de Neuf (French TV) Oct 1964 - Carol
Ed Sullivan Show April 1965 - The last time
RSG 9/65 - I got you Babe send up, satisfaction
TOTP 11/65 - get off of my cloud
Ed Sullivan 2/66 - 19th nervous Breakdown
Lady jane promo
RSG 9/66 - Under My thumb
Have you seen your mother baby (either drag version of Albert hall footage
ED Sullivan rehearsal Jan 1967 - Ruby Tuesday?
We Love You promo
2000 Light years from Home promo
JJ Flash - promo
Child of the moon promo
Rock n roll circus 12/68 - Parachute woman
David Frost show 6/69 - YCAGWYW
Hyde Park 69 - Adonais/Im yours shes mine
Brians funeral footage
1 song from "Gimme shelter" (MSG/Altamont)
Lyceum,London Dec 1969 - 1 song
TOTP 25.12.69 - Honky Tonk Women
Pop go the 60�s - Gimme shelter
Marquee 26.3.71- I Got The Blues
TOTP �71 - Brown Sugar
Montreuz rehearsals May 1972 - Shake your hips
Ladies & Gentlemen - All down the Line
Dick Cavett show - Street Fighting Man (MSG�72)
Silver Train promo 1973
Frankfurt 1973- Street fighting man
Aint too proud to beg 1974 promo
LA 1975 - Fingerprint File
Hey Negrita promo 1976
Paris 1976 - Starfucker
Knebworth 1976 - You Gotta Move
Far Away Eyes promo 1978
Chicago �78 - let it Rock
Saturday Night Live 1978 - Respectable
Emotional Rescue - promo # 2
Worried about You - promo 1981
Under My Thumb - Tempe 81 (lets spend the night together) film
Checkerboard Lounge - Champagne and a Reefer
Hampton 81 - Backstage jam/Shattered
Wembley 26.6.82 - Satsfaction
Undercover - censored promo footage 1983
One Hit promo 1986
The Stones in Morocco footage 1989
Dallas 11.11.89 - Ruby Tuesday
Atlantic City 19.12.89 - Little Red Rooster
Almost Hear You Sigh - promo 1990
Tokyo 26.2.90 - Gimme Shelter
Barcelona 14.6.90 - Street Fighting Man
High Wire promo 1991
Sex Drive promo 1991 (uncensored)
Memory Motel - Washington rehearsal 31.7.94
sweet Virginia - Miami 25.11.94
Out Of Tears promo 1994
Midnight Rambler - Rio 4.2.95
Monkey Man - Johannesburg 25.2.95
Stripped TV special - 1 song from European club shows
Press conference new York Aug 1997
Anybody seen My Baby - promo version #2 1997
Double door Chicago 18.9.97 - Crazy Mama
Chicago rehearsal 23.9.97
Chicago 23.9.97 - concert footage
Buenos Aires 30.3.98 - Little Queenie
Chorzow 14.8.98 - 1 song
Bremen 2.9.98 - 1 song
Chicago 12.4.99 - from Chris Evans UK TV special -
Blimp footage 2002
The song choices are far from final. I just mentioned some ideas as I dont want to end up with 10 versions each of "Brown Sugar" or "Jumpin Jack Flash"
If you have any ideas or have any great low generation professional footage you think may be worthy of inclusion, email me privately ([email protected])or post it here. I realise that on recent tours theres many pro-shot videos available but I dont want the thing to get too lopsided so that we end up with maybe only an hour of 70's footage but with 10 different songs from 10 different shows from the Voodoo Lounge tour.
Please note that right now,I'm not taking names for sign ups for this tree as its just in the planning stages, but any input is welcome.
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| Lazy Bones |
Fantastic, Gazza! Yes, 180 minute tapes are available here. |
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| steel driving hammer |
Gazza you may piss in my mouth anytime...
Just tell me when to open. |
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| Lazy Bones |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Gazza you may piss in my mouth anytime...
Just tell me when to open.
Please..just keep it off the video! |
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| steel driving hammer |
Sittin' here thinking,
Gazza all those songs can't fit on a US/ VHS tape!!!
Your sending me PAL? Heard it, but don't have the transfermation equipment nor a PAL player.
Please excuse me of these questions but I had alot to drink last night.
Want some live James McMurtury? |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
RSG Nov. 1964 - Little red rooster
This is a great but unwieldy idea. I'm game to help, though.
I prefer the Shindig performance of "Little Red Rooster", the one with Mick in a haunted house. It looks like he's guest-hosting Chiller Theater.
Also, I find the "Aftermath" era RSG stuff to be a must - "Under My Thumb", "I Am Waiting" and "Paint It Black". They were just SO damn cool in 1966.
Hey...I have a DVD burner...
developing! |
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| WahWahWoody |
What a fantastic idea,Gazza! If this ever is going to happen, I would love to have a copy of that great stuff you mentioned.... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Gazza,
FPM is right...video is unweildy.
The best way to do this would be as a VCD. |
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| Gazza |
>SDH : Gazza all those songs can't fit on a US/ VHS tape!!!
I know..its a preliminary "working list" of about 6 hours worth. If I include that much,it will require two tapes. One 3-hour tape simply wont do it justice and it seems 4-hour tapes are hard to come by in North America. I'm just floating ideas around at present.
>SDH : Your sending me PAL? Heard it, but don't have the transfermation equipment nor a PAL player.
Most people dont. You'd need to leave it into a shop to get it transferred from PAL to NTSC. I have two VCR's that will play and record PAL as well as "playback only" NTSC tapes..(thats quite common in Europe now with modern video recorders) however you cant copy a NTSC tape here,you can only WATCH it on a PAL video that can playback NTSC tapes. If someone in America sends me a NTSC tape,whilst I can WATCH it on my VCR,I would need it converted to PAL before I can copy it for anyone else. You need special equipment to convert,which is very expensive. If the branch splits the cost of getting his/her PAL tape converted with the people he/she is making copies for it really shouldnt turn out to be any more than the cost of a blank video or two.
To reiterate: I'll be sending the North American/Japan BRANCHES a "PAL" tape - that is,those who will try and get it transferred and then have the facility to copy their NTSC (US/Japan) converted tape for their "leaves". You'll only get a tape directly FROM me if youre a branch making copies for others. Its not as complicated as it sounds,really! Believe me,it'll be worth it.
>FPM : I prefer the Shindig performance of "Little Red Rooster", the one with Mick in a haunted house. It looks like he's guest-hosting Chiller Theater.
yeah,youre probably right. Problem is,my RSG version is a master so Im choosing picture quality first over possibly a superior performance...I just listed "Rooster" as a possible choice from THAT show (I could pick any of the others performed that day). I have pretty much all the circulating RSG appearances as masters as they were rebroadcast here a few years back. If I have the version youre referring to (and Id need to check) its probably in lesser quality than the RSG version. For a video trade,its important I use the best quality available that I can get . If you or anyone has a master or top quality version of that recording and think that it'll still copy well a couple of generations down from YOUR version,then I'd love to see it (that applies to any interesting footage anyone can dig out - I'm especially looking for 60's material in this regard. Ive just tonight found a dec 1964 Shindig recording (broadcast in march '65) that id forgotten I had which is in pretty good quality,so maybe thats another that may be of use)
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| Gazza |
>FPM is right...video is unweildy.
The best way to do this would be as a VCD
tell me more..... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
www.vcdhelp.com
There's even a thing there about NTSC & PAL....
Hint. Dylantree is running a VCD tree right now. |
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| Dandelion* |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
>FPM is right...video is unweildy.
The best way to do this would be as a VCD
tell me more.....
Gazza - do you or anyone you know have a dv camcorder? If you can transfer your video to mini dv and send it to FPM there will be less generation loss than copying to a PAL video then transferring to another tape. DV does not have generation loss and is "cloned." (Your own collection would be in a more archival state if you transfer to DV as well.) FPM then could burn dvds from a mini dv source with much less image/sound loss. There should not be dvd compression problems with this sort of material. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Yeah Dandy, that would be great....except I'll bet that FPM is one of the only people on this board who can burn DVD. Meaning that he would end up having to burn 100 or more copies of it.
I doubt he's up for this kind of task. It would literally consume his iMac for weeks on end.
VCD is the way to go. Lots of computer burners out there. Lot's of help in doing the burning that way.
Besides...we can get him to transfer the VCD to DVD for us anyhow....especially when you are holding that Tower ticket over his head.... |
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| Dandelion* |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Yeah Dandy, that would be great....except I'll bet that FPM is one of the only people on this board who can burn DVD. Meaning that he would end up having to burn 100 or more copies of it.
I doubt he's up for this kind of task. It would literally consume his iMac for weeks on end.
VCD is the way to go. Lots of computer burners out there. Lot's of help in doing the burning that way.
Besides...we can get him to transfer the VCD to DVD for us anyhow....especially when you are holding that Tower ticket over his head....
What I meant was that perhaps he could burn clean edited DVDs for the "branches." I assume the VCD format can copy DVDs, right? I do know that there is a difference in resolution and compression between the consumer market burners and something a bit more pro like FPM's iMac. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
I don't really know much on the technical end of VCD.
I do know about trees however.
What you are suggesting is that branches get DVDs, and leaves get VCDs. This goes against what a tree is meant to do....distribute a title, in equal quality, to everyone who signs up.
Look at it like this....let's say 48 people sign up to branch. When the tree structure is generated, only 20 branches are needed. This means 20 people would get higher quality DVDs, and 28 people who signed up to branch will get a lower quality VCD. As you can see, this would be a prescription for disaster...or at the very least, a real nasty flame war. "How come so and so got picked to get a DVD and I didn't? Is it because I'm gay?" You get the picture, I'm sure.
Besides, with a lot of the footage that Gazza is talking about, VCD would actually improve the picture quality. In a few years when DVD-R is affordable for everyone, we will be able to do DVD trees for this kind of project. But right now, there just aren't enough people with DVD-R to pull off a big tree. VCD is the way to go. |
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| steel driving hammer |
Just wanna tell everyone here good morning, afternoon or night.
Stones rule. |
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| Jacques |
Great idea Gazza !!!
I hope it's going to be a big tree with a lot of branches.
I've also have a DVD burner, if I can help. But it's DVD+R.
Maybe DVD is too early.
Question to FPM, how can I copy a DVD+RW to VCD ? Thanks in advance |
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| Gazza |
>Gazza - do you or anyone you know have a dv camcorder? If you can transfer your video to mini dv and send it to FPM there will be less generation loss than copying to a PAL video then transferring to another tape. DV does not have generation loss and is "cloned." (Your own collection would be in a more archival state if you transfer to DV as well.) FPM then could burn dvds from a mini dv source with much less image/sound loss. There should not be dvd compression problems with this sort of material.
Nope..sorry I dont know anyone that can do that for me. Right now what I have are 3 VCR's, a Region 2 DVD player (which has Region 1 playback facility), a twin Philips CDR 765 to copy audio CDR's - my computer can play CD-Roms but doesnt have DVD capability...so a lot of this stuff about video Cd's/recordable DVD's is beyond my capabilities.
Good point about the DVD's improving the quality and preserving the archives (something I may have to invest in eventually when recordable DVD's become more affordable),but as Sir Stonesalot says there are very few folks out there with the equipment to burn DVD's - so its easier to "tree" something where as many people as possible have the capability to copy/burn for someone else. Thats one reason why I suggested video at first as the format (the other options either simply never dawned on me or struck me as practical for this purpose)
Now if someone out there (in BOTH the NTSC and PAL regions) can burn copies on a format thats not gonna tie them up for weeks on end,I'll certainly be interested in what suggestions they have to help - and if they can "add" other rare info footage to the compilation,even better.
keep the input flowing....
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| padre |
Fantastic idea!! Can a normal burner do VCDs? What program do I need to make them?
One suggestion for the collection: the stuff with Howlin' Wolf on Shindig. |
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| FotiniD |
Yes, that's a fantastic idea  I LOVE Stones videos.
By the way, is there a timeframe for this? I mean, I'm leaving for vacation and I won't be able to surf the net during August, and I don't want to miss this opportunity if it's all organized in that time.
So count me in please
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| Sir Stonesalot |
How about using the rehearsal footage of Respectable from SNL 78....I thought that was way better than the actual show performance. Or how about any of the Checkerboard Lounge w/ Muddy Waters footage?
I'll post the link about VCDs again
www.vcdhelp.com
If you have any questions about VCD, that's the place to get your answers. |
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| Gazza |
I have the SNL rehearsal stuff OK....but quality I'd just describe as VG+ and no better
"Shindig" 65 - the Stones only introduced Howlin Wolf.. did they actually PLAY with him? Has anyone got the early US shows in GREAT quality??
Fotini - dont worry...I'd be surprised if this will be ready before the start of the Stones tour,even if it comes off...besides,as youre in Europe,running off a copy on a PAL tape for you is easy enough |
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| Gazza |
Meant to add also - I listed the Checkerboard Lounge stuff with Muddy waters etc on the original list of stuff I planned to include. Its actually one of my favourite Stones related videos ever. I have two versions of this historic show on video. The first - and more frequently circulating version - is 33 minutes and in near excellent quality which would certainly be good enough to circulate on a "tree" and a slightly lesser quality edit which runs for about 88 minutes (and features more non-Stones items during the show,although its the full circulating tape) |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Hey dig this about that.....
The Checkerboard gig is the very LAST time Muddy was filmed while performing.
It IS a historic event. When Keith walked into the dressing room where Muddy was, he fell to his knees in front of Mud and kissed both of Muddy's hands...like he was the Pope or some religious icon....I'm guessing that for Keith, Muddy was about the closest thing to a religious icon that he had. |
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| Gazza |
He went out with a bang too if thats anything to go by because he absolutely steals the whole thing,its really amazing....you ever seen the whole show? fabulous stuff |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
I've not seen the whole show, just the Stones part...
This was not Muddy's last performance, just the last one that was filmed. Muddy's last performance was in Miami, June 30th 1982, with Eric Clapton. He sang "Blow Wind Blow" with Eric. It was a surprise for Eric...no one told him that Muddy was going to be there. When Eric started Blow Wind Blow Muddy stepped out onto the stage. When the song was over Muddy waved and walked off the stage...Eric said in amazement...as much to himself as to the audience..."That was Muddy Waters!"
The above info comes from the good read "Can't Be Satisfied: The Life And Times Of Muddy Waters", a new bio of Muddy Waters life. I don't really know how acurate any of the info is...you know how those ol' blues guys like to tell stories...but it sure is an entertaining read!
There's some Stones content in it as well. However, they did in fact get Ronnies name wrong by calling him Mick Taylor! LOL! But it's a really cool picture, caption withstanding.
Anyhow, if you are interested in just where the Rolling Stones sprang from...this book is a good place to start. |
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| padre |
Yeah, I think the Stones were only watching the Wolf when he performed on Shindig. I read somewhere that Howlin' Wolf didn't care much for these young white wannabe bluesmusicians... But the London Sessions from the early 70's with Wolf, Watts, Wyman, etc kicks ass anyway!!
88 minute version of the Checkerboard Lounge gig??? I think I just wet myself. I hadn't even heard about such tape! All I've got a is a real poor copy of the 33 minute tape with no colours and wobbly sound and I cherish even that!
I bought a VCD called Sweet Home Chicago from Hong Kong. It's a 60 minute story of the Chess Records with some great footage on it. About last 10 minutes of it is dedicated to Jagger's interview and some prime material of that Checkerboard Lounge gig. Clear soundboard sounds and sharp picture! With colours! Boy, have I watched that a few times... But 88 minutes of it... |
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| MRD8 |
I'll make a few contributions to tree if you like...I have a pretty good copy of the Checkerboard show...have to see if its the 88 minute version or not...I also have an exccellent copy of the Ed Sullivan shows...a lot of their video's...I'm one of the people who set up the deal with the member of their crew for the Double Door proshot and Chicago '97 rehearsals tapes...my copy is off of his master...have super quality video's from Toronto '89 that has Play With Fire and One Hit(To The Body) and Dead Flowers on it...and Bremen '98 which featues Memory Motel as the webchoice and a super version of YCAGWYW...let me know if I can send any of this stuff for the tree... |
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| sir doctar |
hey gazza
let me know about this dvd/vcd/tape
love to see some of this |
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| Stonesmillenium2001 |
a great video list! |
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