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| The Wick |
I almost feel bad writing this because a part of me says we get so little new material over a decade that we should just keep quiet and enjoy what the Stones put out. However, it seems like they reached a real creative zenith in making this album and I can't but help feel Don Was is just not getting the best out of them. I thought his best work was on Voodoo Lounge where he got the band at least on the road back to doing what they do best: writing rough rock'n'roll, with a few beautiful ballads, that no band has ever been able to even come close to. Anything they put out is still going to be more entertaining that any other music out there, but it just doesn't feel like they are reaching their best. I thought Was would take Bridges to another level, and that, apart from one or two tracks, was a huge let down. I am hoping A Bigger Bang will get back to a Voodoo type vibe, but even though I don't hate Streets of Love like many people, what the hell is this enunciation shit? He doesn't even sound this clean on Angie. I am just hoping the bulk of it is more like Rough Justice in production, although even Rough Justice seems too polished for the style of song. Both songs could have been so much more if the production wasn't so god damn glossy. The best Stones songs and albums are those where Jagger almost mumbles his way through the song. Also, that opening lyric just blows: You're awful bright, you're awful smart. He gets back to form with the lips on hips bit on Rough Justice, which is just the classic Mick Jagger in Stones mode, but if this clean cut production and enunciation shite dominates, I say Don Was should be shown the door and they should get someone who takes away the fancy production, although God knows how much say Don Was or anyone else really has. |
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| exile |
The album hasnt even come out yet!....give them a chance! |
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| hotlicks |
Well lets wait to hear the album before judgement ok ! |
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| CraigP |
Very valid post. When I heard that Don Was worked on this album I said err. He does tend to make the sound too glossy with a wanna-be modern approach. I also think that Jagger has alot to do with that. The Stones + a polished sound just can't work. I still love the new material except my hate for Streets of Love. I first listened to it with a friend who is a new Stones fan and was embarassed and let down. Then we checked out Rough Justice and he thought it was good in the beginning but got bored with it quickly. I think it's because of Streets of Love is shit. Heard it once and have no desire to ever hear it again. The only good thing about CD's are that you can skip over tracks. The album comes out 3 days before my B-Day. I can't wait! |
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| Steel Wheels |
It's rather pointless to ponder this topic seeing as how the band now releases new album every 8 years. |
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| Soldatti |
Don Was did a great job in Voodoo Lounge and it seems that the new CD will be in the same style, so I can't cay nothing against him. |
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| quackenbush |
I thought Bridges to Babylon was a much better album than Voodoo Lounge. Voodoo felt like it was fifteen minutes too long. |
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| Gazza |
well Dirty Work was about 30 minutes too long, so I guess it was a step in the right direction... |
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| exile |
The old 'whats better Voodoo or Bridges' debate
In the end its just down to personal opinion.
I am of the opinion that Voodoo was MUCH better than Bridges ...I also though Don WAs did a good job on Voodoo.
Im glad to see a return to this more "true" stones style. |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]The Wick wrote:
I almost feel bad writing this because a part of me says we get so little new material over a decade that we should just keep quiet and enjoy what the Stones put out. However, it seems like they reached a real creative zenith in making this album and I can't but help feel Don Was is just not getting the best out of them. I thought his best work was on Voodoo Lounge where he got the band at least on the road back to doing what they do best: writing rough rock'n'roll, with a few beautiful ballads, that no band has ever been able to even come close to. Anything they put out is still going to be more entertaining that any other music out there, but it just doesn't feel like they are reaching their best. I thought Was would take Bridges to another level, and that, apart from one or two tracks, was a huge let down. I am hoping A Bigger Bang will get back to a Voodoo type vibe, but even though I don't hate Streets of Love like many people, what the hell is this enunciation shit? He doesn't even sound this clean on Angie. I am just hoping the bulk of it is more like Rough Justice in production, although even Rough Justice seems too polished for the style of song. Both songs could have been so much more if the production wasn't so god damn glossy. The best Stones songs and albums are those where Jagger almost mumbles his way through the song. Also, that opening lyric just blows: You're awful bright, you're awful smart. He gets back to form with the lips on hips bit on Rough Justice, which is just the classic Mick Jagger in Stones mode, but if this clean cut production and enunciation shite dominates, I say Don Was should be shown the door and they should get someone who takes away the fancy production, although God knows how much say Don Was or anyone else really has.
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Wick, with respect to you as a person but not to your opinion.
Give me, and everyone here a friggin break. I am not judging you but in this instance I think you are an example of a fan that wants to go against what the normal response/common belief is.
Rough Justice's production is too glossy?.....
Are we listening to the same song here? The production is anything but glossy. In-fact it is purposely rough, raw, and not glossed. You will not find another person on any Rolling Stones board that will not agree with that.
Now in reference to Don Was:
Don Was is their "Co" producer. In their situation that means he takes their idea and tries to make the best of it. Personally
I think he does a better job with that than anybody could today. Don Was is The Rolling Stone's CHOSEN producer for their 5th, count em, fifth studio jaunt for a reason. that reason is quite simply they are very satisfied with him.
If they were not 100% happy with what they have came up with while working with him or how the recordings have sounded in the past ten years then he would not be hired over, and over again by them. The guy is world class, he knows the Stones groove, and he is a great reference to their muscican endevors while recording because he is a musician himself. I can respect a person not liking The Stones current recordings but I think they should blame the proper source for that....The Stones themselves. Not a Co-Producer who basically delivers for the most part exactly what The stones request.
Ian
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| The Wick |
Ian: First, thanks for being civil. Second, if you read the last sentence on my post, I specifically questioned how much of an influence Don Was or any other producer might have because it is a rare human who can get between or go over Jagger and Richards when it comes to production. Perhaps the secret back in the day was that the two of them were much closer musically, and hence, there was a more cohesive sound to the records. By the own admission, Bridges was basically, I'll do my stuff and you do yours, with a few half hearted collaborations. Third, I perhaps worded myself badly regarding Rough Justice. The gloss I am referring to is a feeling that they have this amazing song, but it doesn't seem to have been taken to the limit. It's hard to articulate, but something feels like it is missing. Although completely different songs and different sounds, it's the same sort of vibe I get with Stealing My Heart. Fourth, I am not only basing my opinion of Don Was on his work with the Stones. The albums he has produced for Bob Dylan, Bonnie Raitt, etc. do have a clean type of sound. Lastly, anything the Stones put out will top any other album, song, or band for me- that includes any "classic" that some other band or musician has put out. Put it this way, I would rather listen to the shite on Dirty Work and Satanic Majesties over the best that anyone else has to offer. I just think they could have broken down boundaries again after Voodoo (like they did in the 60's and 70's), and feel that they fell slightly short with Bridges and the two songs we have heard here. As pointed out by others though, there are still 14 songs to go, so we should continue this after the album comes out. |
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| IanBillen |
Wick,
I can see your bitch. However, you said it best....We only heard two tracks out of 16.
Also I think alot of people don't realize that The Stones went through a transitional period from Steel Wheels to Voodoo that spawened some good magic there in that particular time period. Both in Mick and Keiths song writing and the bands "real" approach to it again gave birth to Voodoo.
If it happens it happens again, if it isn't as strong as it once was it isn't really anyones fault. Don Was does his best to promote that kind of magic but even that only goes so far.
Now as for SOL and RJ. In my opinion they are both good tunes. I personally hope that there are alot better tunes on the album and to tell you the truth, I really do n ot believe they are of the top three songs on the album anyway.
I for one know ONNYA is better than them both so there ya go. I will agree that if those two songs were the top two on the album I too would be dissappointed. Both are certainly album worthy but in the other hand should be behind a good four other songs on the album in terms of good song wrtiting.
Ian |
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| souldoggie |
If we're gonna repalce Mr. Was, let's first wait until we hear the new album...that's really not too much to ask...and then maybe we'll all be lucky enough to want him gone, because that'll mean that these guys will actually do another studio album. My advice to all...enjoy the moment, it's really precious if you think about it. |
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| gimmekeef |
Its my belief it doesnt matter.This will be their last studio effort....just a gut feeling... |
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| BILL PERKS |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
well Dirty Work was about 30 minutes too long, so I guess it was a step in the right direction...
THAT'S BLASPHEMOUS |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Its my belief it doesnt matter.This will be their last studio effort....just a gut feeling...
Say it ain't so! They've come too far to look back now. I think you'll see a new album in 2-3 years. Whether the records are good or bad I want to see them push it to the limit. That should be the "legacy".
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
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| Navin |
Keith claimed at one time that they run through their producers like gas in an automobile (drain them completely, or something like that)... as with Andrew and Miller...so what about Don Was? |
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| gslinger |
Well you guys have a step up on me because no one is
is playing it where I live in central ny I'm from
Syracuse ny and can't seem to get the website to come up.
But let give Don a chance but I think it's time they get
back to they'er roots and produce an album on they'er
own like Aerosmiths honkin on bobo. |
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| gimmekeef |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Say it ain't so! They've come too far to look back now. I think you'll see a new album in 2-3 years. Whether the records are good or bad I want to see them push it to the limit. That should be the "legacy".
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels]
10,000....It certainly isnt something I'm hoping for.Wish they can do quite a few more.But I get a sense they've really tried this time..but that it wont be enough for some fans here or wont sell enough for them to bother anymore.We'll have to wait and see when it comes out and hope I'm 100% wrong.I'll still luv em regardless!!!! |
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| texile |
thanks wick - you expressed my thoughts exactly.....
as for those who think some of us are being too hard the stones.....WTF?
these motherfuckers don't deserve a break - and don was is an ass-kissing whatever - his presence has ruined the stones by sucking thier metaphorical cock....
they don't have to take chances, or rise above mediocrity -
when don was is around - they don't have to do SHIT because he's thier BIGGEST fan.....
wick is right.....
they're comfortable with WAS and that's NOT a good thing.
how can anybody defend lyrics like the ones wick mentioned.....AWFUL.
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| FrankiePeppers |
Wick beat me to it. I hope this album will not be as polished-sounding as Babylon. I also had a pang of fear when I read that there are 16 tracks. I highly doubt they can have that much good material. At their best, Exile had 16 tracks that were at least good (excl Turd. . and I Just Wanna. . .) out of 18. I am hoping for maybe 6 good ones out of 16. How many more songs can they write about love without being provocative, suggestive or edgy (stray cat, starfu* et al)? I realize their best years are behind them, but I think 16 songs are too much. I still think they are great and I will buy the album and see them 2x on the tour. |
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| T&A |
good to see the other whiners are working today...I get the day off! |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
FrankiePeppers wrote:
At their best, Exile had 16 tracks that were at least good (excl Turd. . and I Just Wanna. . .) out of 18.
greetings mr.peppers - i don't mean to get off on the wrong foot with you  but i must disagree with your assessment of Just Wanna See His Face
for me it is one of the the best, most interesting and most meaningful tracks/songs of the stones entire catalouge - as well as being one of the most distinctive - it's woozy gospel overtones and the way it's laid back at the same time that it generates it's own strange tension makes it a tour de force (if you'll pardon my french)- the drumming/percussion in particular (but the whole thing genrally) clearly evokes the primal and primitive feelings that informs most , if not all, of their work but which for the most part is merely implied or suggested
and from the production side of things - with all it's strange rumblings and mad atmosphere it conjures up a sonic landscape that they themselves, let alone any others, have never managed to revisit or recreate (imho)
what is it about the song that causes you to dismiss/not rate it??
as i say 'tho, welcome aboard and i am interested to hear your response - cheers |
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| T&A |
wanna see your face is a KILLER track - easily among the top five on the album. same goes for Turd..... |
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| beer |
I always thought that they should have "Just wanna see his face" backing track, minus jaggers vocals, playin over the sound system right before they hit the stage to open the show with Rocks Off. it'd be a cool build up.
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| IanBillen |
quote:
texile wrote:
thanks wick - you expressed my thoughts exactly.....
as for those who think some of us are being too hard the stones.....WTF?
these motherfuckers don't deserve a break - and don was is an ass-kissing whatever - his presence has ruined the stones by sucking thier metaphorical cock....
they don't have to take chances, or rise above mediocrity -
when don was is around - they don't have to do SHIT because he's thier BIGGEST fan.....
wick is right.....
they're comfortable with WAS and that's NOT a good thing.
how can anybody defend lyrics like the ones wick mentioned.....AWFUL.
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Textile and the others who choose to be un-happy with the new stuff:
The Rolling Stones egoes are as big as the planet. So what if Don Was is a huge fan. He has done wonders with the group since 94. Look at Voodoo or Bridges comparted to Steel Wheels or Dirty Work. Listen to the quality Rock n Roll we have been recieving on the new album. As far as the Stones being comfortable with him....that is what you want when you hire a producer. Contrary to common belief a producer is supposed to make a group feel completely at ease with him or her. This spawnes creativity. What you don't want is someone being a hard ass in there. That just doesn't work in the Biz....especially with The Stones. The new album seems to be exactly what everybody has been asking for and yet you're still not happy....and we only heard a hand-full of the new album.
So why blame their producer....? The production on these new tracks hit's the mark. What do want Don Was to do write their songs and sing them. Cut him a beak. Not because I like him as a producer but because it seems we have whiners that are never satisfied no matter what has been brought to the table so you look to blame The Stones "Co" (that's right Co) Producer who basically, at the moment, has given you exactly what you wanted in a quality way.
You wanted less studio musicians=you got that wish
you wanted a less polished bare-boned album=you're gonna get it
you want the Stones to stick to their roots=that's what's happening on this album.
you wanted The Stones to really get together and try and write like they used to =that's what happened as well.
What do you want Don Was to do? Geeze
Ian
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| blackandblue |
What's the alternative? |
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| FrankiePeppers |
I should have guessed my post would cause some outrage. I was using Exile for scale, not for direct comparison. For the Stones to release 16 songs and everyone thinks that they will all/mostly be quality songs is a fantasy. I would prefer a 10-11 song album and lose the filler.
To StonedinAustralia: I just listened to both tracks again. They just don't resonate with me. I can appreciate your artistic critique of the song, but I am not a musician, nor possession any technical knowledge of music. If I like, I like it. I am sorry I cannot give a more in-depth analysis. Anyway, by all means if you disagree, please say so. It would be a boring world if everyone liked the same thing. By the way, what songs on Exile do you not like? Just wondering
And I got off track on the Don Was angle. Babylon sounded over-produced, over-polished, too slick for the Stones, as some have stated in earlier posts. If the Stones have final say, which I would think they do, maybe I should be more critical of their production not Was's. But since they are using Was again, they must like what he's telling them.
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
FrankiePeppers wrote:
By the way, what songs on Exile do you not like? Just wondering
none of them - for a long time i didn't fully appreciate Casino Boogie and the aforementioned Turd thinking them a bit off hand and half baked - not so now |
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| texile |
i don't blame WAS for being a lame-ass producer - i blame the stones for choosing someone so obliging...this guy does NOTHING for the stones, BRINGS nothing...
the alternative? people have mentioned it before: a rick rubin perhaps? soemone with the balls to be a fire under the stones ass.....but NOOOOO -
cos NOBODY tells keith richards what to do....and they NEED to;
remember keith kicking chuck berry into shape on hail, hail, rock and roll?
well......... |
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