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| Fiji Joe |
Your Cousin Lou wrote:
"India and Pakistan are fighting over Kashmir. Sudan has Christians. Ethiopia, a Christian nation, is ready to go to war with Somali militias, etc. I grew up in Appalacia, and I assure you, there is plenty of loony fundamentalism there."
None of these regions are exporting fundamentalists who stated goal is the establishment of their worldview worldwide...this is what we're talking about...of course, there are religious fundamentalists everywhere...some can be lived with...some cannot...again, that is the point
"While the Sultan may have been rolling in dough, I don't think the average inhabitant of the Ottoman Empire had it that good. If I recall, the Ottoman Empire was pretty tolerant of Judaism and Christianity. How tolerant of Islam was Christian Europe? How tolerant of Jews was Christian Europe?"
Are you really contending that the Ottomans were marching great distances just to let the Europens know they were pissed off and poor?...you recall the Ottomans were tolerant of Christians?...How old are you?...ancient bastard...any way...you're wrong...the rest of this statement just proves my point...poverty is not a factor in lasting world views
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| pdog |
Starbuck... The Palestininans were fucked over by there own people ie: Muslims, when Israel was going through it birthright. It was not anyones fault that there isn't a Palestinian nation... The oppurtunnity to create one was passed over by all... And Haters of Israel used the Palestininan situation to garner anger, they never tried to help them... If you have money to get weapons... My heart is always with the poor and suffering of the world... In the case of Palestine, Israel went above and beyond trying to be cool. They've constantly been under attack... And despite that have tried to help The Palestininans, the pawns of evil sick Muslim fundamantalists... Is there one case were one of these militant groups has allowed or participated in getting humanitarian aid to "the poor" folks? Not one that I know of.
Just look at the recent events... They attack and capture two soldiers... Just do it, for the hell of it. And the are bargaining them to get people released who have plotted to kill civilians in Israel. Look at what they're up against... This is why, they've been bulldozing homes and keeping the Palestininans down. They is no winning. The forces against Israel do not want peace, they want total destruction of Israel... So much and so badly they've used the Palestinians and the country of Lebanon and are sacraficing them to accomplish this... There's no gray area there for me. All free nations of the world are balanced on this precipice. Iran especially has wanted to destroy Israel outright. They want every single jew dead. Fuck that, fuck them... |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
I majored in Byzantine History/Orthodox Christianity in college. Part of that included the aftermath of the fall of Constantinople. I can assure you that the Ottoman empire did not roll in and start mass exterminating other religions. Most Christians in Anatolia and the Levant who converted to Islam did so as they would no longer have to pay religious taxes. On the other hand, in Europe, the inquisition was in full swing. Muslims were forced to convert to Christianity or die, and Jews were blamed for eating babies. So no, the problem isn't religion by itself... |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
quote:
They attack and capture two soldiers... Just do it, for the hell of it.
No, they did it to provoke open war and undermine the the currently elected Hamas Government, which was on the verge of joining with Abbas to recognize the legitimacy of the state of Israel. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Starbuck... The Palestininans were fucked over by there own people ie: Muslims, when Israel was going through it birthright. It was not anyones fault that there isn't a Palestinian nation... The oppurtunnity to create one was passed over by all... And Haters of Israel used the Palestininan situation to garner anger, they never tried to help them... If you have money to get weapons... My heart is always with the poor and suffering of the world... In the case of Palestine, Israel went above and beyond trying to be cool. They've constantly been under attack... And despite that have tried to help The Palestininans, the pawns of evil sick Muslim fundamantalists... Is there one case were one of these militant groups has allowed or participated in getting humanitarian aid to "the poor" folks? Not one that I know of.
Just look at the recent events... They attack and capture two soldiers... Just do it, for the hell of it. And the are bargaining them to get people released who have plotted to kill civilians in Israel. Look at what they're up against... This is why, they've been bulldozing homes and keeping the Palestininans down. They is no winning. The forces against Israel do not want peace, they want total destruction of Israel... So much and so badly they've used the Palestinians and the country of Lebanon and are sacraficing them to accomplish this... There's no gray area there for me. All free nations of the world are balanced on this precipice. Iran especially has wanted to destroy Israel outright. They want every single jew dead. Fuck that, fuck them...
Jew-haters do not want to hear this...they cannot reconcile their calls for Irael to restrain itself with Hezbolloah's stated goal of the destruction of the jews
Not one of them will admit that they would allow such a group to exist just miles from them without acting...
Not one of them is willing to relinquish the land they occupy to its original inhabitants
Do not kid yourself Pdog...there are people who are sympathetic towards Hezbolloah because their stated goal is the eradication of the jews...some of them, I believe, may post here |
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| lotsajizz |
correct, the problem is racism--stupid Asiatic tribal wars in which the US should never have picked sides |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Do not kid yourself Pdog...there are people who are sympathetic towards Hezbolloah because their stated goal is the eradication of the jews...some of them, I believe, may post here
Is there a list of the pro-Hezbollah posters? |
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| pdog |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Jew-haters do not want to hear this...they cannot reconcile their calls for Irael to restrain itself with Hezbolloah's stated goal of the destruction of the jews
Not one of them will admit that they would allow such a group to exist just miles from them without acting...
Not one of them is willing to relinquish the land they occupy to its original inhabitants
Do not kid yourself Pdog...there are people who are sympathetic towards Hezbolloah because their stated goal is the eradication of the jews...some of them, I believe, may post here
Yes! I know... If a group like that existed in Cananda or Mexico, you can bet your ass the USA would go in if the host country was unwilling or unable to remove them...
It is possible to have sympathy and regard for the civilians caught up in the crossfire and still see the truth, that Israel and all free nations of the world must unite to destroy the radical jihadists whose only goal is the death of anyone they deem an infidel.
You can not bargain or negotiate a peace with someone whose end goal is total destruction of a people.
Anyone who thinks Israel is wrong, ask yourself this: why are they trying to get aid into Lebanon and why isn't Syria doing the same?
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| not bound to please |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
correct, the problem is racism--stupid Asiatic tribal wars in which the US should never have picked sides
But they/we did. Good choice!
Farwell social security... |
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| pdog |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Is there a list of the pro-Hezbollah posters?
I beleive Pug is holding that list! |
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| Joey |
I just took my afternoon shit . |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Yes! I know... If a group like that existed in Cananda or Mexico, you can bet your ass the USA would go in if the host country was unwilling or unable to remove them...
It is possible to have sympathy and regard for the civilians caught up in the crossfire and still see the truth, that Israel and all free nations of the world must unite to destroy the radical jihadists whose only goal is the death of anyone they deem an infidel.
You can not bargain or negotiate a peace with someone whose end goal is total destruction of a people.
Anyone who thinks Israel is wrong, ask yourself this: why are they trying to get aid into Lebanon and why isn't Syria doing the same?
Well that is another element...there are those who oppose Israel on this issue not because they are jew-haters, but because they are clueless when it comes to military matters...any lasting peace has followed a victory...it's a historical fact |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Is there a list of the pro-Hezbollah posters?
Somehow - I think I may have been put on it. I can add that to my pride and joy - one of the original top ten on BILL PERK's idiot list!
by the way - someone said back apiece something about the Ottamans being tolerant. Tell that to the Greeks. |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Joey wrote:
I just took my afternoon shit .
Is there any way you can use pdog's signature to wipe it off?
Thank you. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Is there a list of the pro-Hezbollah posters?
Such a list is very difficult...pro-Hezbollah posters are hesitant to announce their allegiance...it's as if they believe that if they don't say it, God won't know...but God knows...and they will burn in hell |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
Such a list is very difficult...pro-Hezbollah posters are hesitant to announce their allegiance...it's as if they believe that if they don't say it, God won't know...but God knows...and they will burn in hell
"Hell is other people." Jean-Paul Sartre |
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| sirmoonie |
We need a list of un-American Zionists as well. |
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| pdog |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
Is there any way you can use pdog's signature to wipe it off?
Thank you.
Blow yourself up to further your anti-semetic cause! |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
We need a list of un-American Zionists as well.
Can I be on that list too? |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Blow yourself up to further your anti-semetic cause!
oy veh |
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| pdog |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
oy veh
Are you a Scientoligist? |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
quote:
by the way - someone said back apiece something about the Ottamans being tolerant. Tell that to the Greeks.
Sigh... If only it were that simple, really... The Ottoman Empire existed for several centuries. I assume you are referring to Smyrna & events after World War I.
From Wikipedia:
The Ottoman state revolutionized its administrative system with the aid and experience of Greeks and other Christians, Muslims, and Jews, while many other states still held tightly to their own religions and national identities. The rapidly expanding state utilized skilled local people to manage the empire, people who were often selected from among loyal Phanariot Greeks, Armenians, and others. From the perspective of the West, this eclectic administration was apparent even in the diplomatic correspondence of the empire, which was undertaken in the Greek language. Like the Byzantines before them, the Ottomans practiced a system in which the state had control of the clergy...
...One of the successes of the Ottoman Empire was the unity that it brought about among its highly varied population. While the main reason was the military might and heavyhandedness in newly invaded territories, one other indirect source of this unity was allowed for by the laws of Islam, which stated that Muslims, Christians, and Jews—who constituted the vast majority of the Ottoman population—were all related in that they were "People of the Book" (Arabic: اهل الكتاب; ahl al-Kitâb). As early as the rule of Mehmed II, the Ottomans had foreseen the results of such policies: Mehmed II, for instance, granted extensive rights to Phanariot Greeks and invited many Jews to settle in Ottoman territory...
...Under Ottoman rule the major religious groups were allowed to establish their own communities, called millets, each retaining its own religious laws, traditions, and language under the general protection of the sultan. Millets were led by religious chiefs, who served as secular as well as religious leaders and thus had a substantial interest in the continuation of Ottoman rule. Mehmed II used the conquering army to restore the physical structure of the city. Old buildings were repaired, streets, aqueducts, and bridges were constructed, sanitary facilities were modernized, and a vast supply system was established to provide for the city's inhabitants.
...Ultimately, the Ottoman Empire's relatively high degree of tolerance on the level of ethnicity proved to be one of its greatest strengths in integrating the new regions until the rise of nationalism under the Ottoman Empire. This non-assimilative policy became a weakness during the dissolution that niether first or second parliament could reprimand. This tolerance was extended to "the Ottoman family was ethnically Turkish in its origins, as were some of its supporters and subjects. But ... the dynasty immediately lost this "Turkish" ethnic identification through intermarriage with many different ethnicities. As for a "Turkish empire", state power relied on a similarly heterogeneous mix of peoples. The Ottoman empire succeeded because it incorporated the energies of the vastly varied peoples it encountered, quickly transcending its roots in the Turkish nomadic migrations from Central Asia into the Middle East..."
Religion
Further information: History of the Jews in Turkey, History of the Armenians in Ottoman Empire
Following the fall of Constantinople in 1453, Mehmed II did not disband the Greek Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarchate, but instead brought it under close control by installing Gennadius II Scholarius as the patriarch—after receiving from him a hefty fee[7]—and thus establishing him as the ethnarch of the Millet of Rum; that is, the Orthodox Christian subjects of the empire, regardless of their ethnicity. Under the millet system—which applied to other non-Muslim religious groups as well—people were considered subjects of the empire but were not subject to the Muslim faith or Muslim law. The Orthodox millet, for instance, was still officially legally subject to Justinian's Code, which had been in effect in the Byzantine Empire for 900 years. Also, as the largest group of non-Muslim subjects (ذمي zimmi) of the Islamic Ottoman state, the Orthodox millet was granted a number of special privileges in the fields of politics and commerce{citation needed}, in addition to having to pay higher taxes than Muslim subjects.
Similar millets were established for the Ottoman Jewish community, who were under the authority of the Haham Başı or Ottoman Chief Rabbi; the Armenian Orthodox community, who were under the authority of a head bishop; and a number of other religious communities as well.
Adoption of Islam
Further information: Ottoman Caliphate
Before adopting Islam—a process that was greatly facilitated by the Abbasid victory at the 751 CE Battle of Talas, which ensured Abbasid influence in Central Asia—the Turkic peoples practised a variety of shamanism. After this battle, many of the various Turkic tribes—including the Oghuz Turks, who were the ancestors of both the Seljuks and the Ottomans—gradually converted to Islam, and brought the religion with them to Anatolia beginning in the 11th century CE.
State and Religion
Main article: State and Religion (Ottoman Empire)
Largely for practical reasons, the Ottoman Empire was, in a broad sense, tolerant towards its non-Muslim subjects; it did not, for instance, forcibly convert all of them to Islam. The sultans took their primary duty to be service to the interests of the state, which could not survive without taxes and a strong administrative system. The state's relationship with the Greek Orthodox Church, for example, was largely peaceful, and the church's structure was kept intact and largely left alone but under close control and scrutiny until the Greek War of Independence of 1821–1831 and, later in the 19th and early 20th centuries, the rise of the Ottoman constitutional monarchy, which was driven to some extent by nationalistic currents. Other churches, like the Bulgarian Orthodox Church, were dissolved and placed under the jurisdiction of the Greek Orthodox Church. On the other hand, the empire often served as a refuge for the persecuted and exiled Jews of Europe, as for example following the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492, when Sultan Beyazid II welcomed them into Ottoman lands.
...Under Selim and above all Suleiman, the empire briefly became a highly proficient and dominant naval force, controlling the eastern Mediterranean and exerting an effective offensive capability into the western sector. The Ottoman admiral Barbarossa ended the Spanish occupation of Tunis and Algeria. Barbarossa rescued Muslims and Jews from Spain to the safety of Ottoman lands, particularly, Salonica, Cyprus, and the newly conquered, and empty city of Constantinople during the Spanish Inquisition...
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
We need a list of un-American Zionists as well.
Haven't we talked about this before?...you're going to have to define zionist...I was not at all satisfied with what I previously believed to be your definition of a zionist...it implicates far too many people
I think we also discussed how, on many occasions, the zionist view is both useful to, and compatible with, the furtherance and preservation of western civilization...I think this issue is one such occasion...
I am not opposed to making lists...I just want to define some parameters
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| lotsajizz |
zionism=racism |
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| pdog |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I am not opposed to making lists...I just want to define some parameters
I'm opposed to lists, I denounce and condemn them... I know who needs killing and I'm sleeping at night under the umbrella of freedom so many great americans died fighting to preserve!
I won't even make a list to go shopping... It's all in my superior jew brain, lists are for pussy terrorists who can't have sex, take drugs and listen to The Rollling Stones...
We don't need a list, just bullets and the knowledge that we are right!
[Edited by pdog] |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I'm opposed to lists, I denounce and condemn them... I know who needs killing and I'm sleeping at night under the umbrella of freedom so many great americans died fighting to preserve!
I won't even make a list to go shopping... It's all in my superior jew brain, lists are for pussy terrorists who can't have sex, take drugs and listen to The Rollling Stones...
We don't need a list, just bullets and the knowledge that we are right!
[Edited by pdog]
I think those claiming Israel should use restraint should attempt, personally, in their American or European skin, to persuade Hezbolloah that what they're doing is wrong...unless of course they don't believe it's wrong
Why is no one denouncing Iran and Syria?...Why Pdog? |
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| not bound to please |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
zionism=racism
word
pdog - keep posting... |
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| Your Cousin Lou |
quote:
Why is no one denouncing Iran and Syria?...Why Pdog?
I denounce the Iranian and Syrian Governments, and Hezbollah, too, for that matter. |
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| Fiji Joe |
Can somone tell me how zionism equals racism?...are you people stupid, or just playing that way?
There many races of people in Israel...and many races of jews
Nationalistic, dogmatic, prejudicial maybe...but racist?...there is nothing more pathetic than a white man playing the race card
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| pdog |
quote:
not bound to please wrote:
word
pdog - keep posting...
You My Nigga'? I didn't think so... You're just a Bierkenstock wearing hippie. For Real! |
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