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| Saint Sway |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I just realized I'm conversing with someone who is saying pedaphilia is a sexual orientation.
of course he does. he works for the church.
pedaphilia is the church's latest crusade
their new motto: "100,000 priests cant be wrong" |
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| the good |
quote:
Jerry in Boston wrote:
I have always been gay. It's who I am, not who some or some things made me. I didn't choose to be attracted to men, it's who I am.
So you think you were born a pole smoker? Just kidding Jerry.  Maybe you were born gay. And that's fine, just be careful out there. And remain open to the possibility that some gay people were not born gay. I know that complicates things, but the world is a complicated place, and sometimes there aren't easy answers to life's big questions.
[Edited by the good] |
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| rocker |
To Boston- Of course i see how that works! Just inserting a little humor in the debate/disscussion. I think you got that. |
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| pdog |
quote:
StonesChick wrote:
It's genetic and in my case, we feel it is from my mother's side of the family. Here's a case study for you:
My mother's uncle was gay.
He had two girls. One girl had 3 boys, the youngest being gay.
The other girl had 5 children, the 2nd youngest boy being gay.
My mother had 5 brothers and 2 sisters, 1 brother which was gay.
A different brother had 5 kids, the oldest daughter being gay.
A different brother had 2 boys, the youngest being gay.
A different brother had 2 kids, the oldest daughter being gay.
A sister had two boys, the youngest being gay.
My mother had 3 kids, the oldest son being gay.
All of my cousins came from very loving, "normal"lol families and have been gay since I met them when I was born. They would have much easier lives if this was not the case and we have had to live with this stigma for so long. I remember being 6 and having kids ask me "what's wrong with your brother" He was born that way. Yeah, I guess gay gene runs in my family.
Do you think there were born that way randomnly or this is a family trait?
There's only one openly gay member of my family, and I know she found it very hard to come out back in the early 90's. My uncle, her dad is a cop and what you would call old school...
All I know is this discusion does nothing to to deal with the real issue. Homosexuals deserve equal rights, human rights, that are being denied in my country.
In terms of homosexuality being talked about in terms of genetics, is not useful.
There's many human traits that can be discussed ad-nauseum in terms of what causes them. Like in my case, I'm an alcholic, as is most of my family, hmmm... Does it matter if I got a gene or if I learned the behavior? No, b/c I need to be in a solution, not be concerned with a cause. Maybe science will create a magic pill for me, which I doubt, but it doesn't matter. Part of the problem of my being an alcoholic, is I can't rationally think my way out of it. It's who I am, and I have to accept it. Everyone in one form or another has to deal with something in their life, that involves self awareness and self acceptance. If we go digging for causes, we may always just keep thinking ourselves into the problem. Is a women who wants larger breasts any different than a man who wants to have a sex change? Yes, but on what level, where do we draw the line, and if there's a line, does that change the fact that one will idiolized and the other demonized by society as a whole.
It's great that science has deep thinkers, willing to look at our genetics... BUT! we aren't evolved enough to jump into solving life's sexual mysteries, we need to stop violence, disease and maybe find a way to keep stupid people with cell phones from getting behind the wheel of a car first, before we go finding out why some chicks like chicks and some dudes like dudes!
[Edited by pdog] |
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
rocker wrote:
Im just making the point that just because something may have a genetic componenent doesnt make it an acceptable reason for justification. Should they find a genetic link to pedophila or beastiality we would not, i hope, give approval to it.
My god! You just put homosexuality in the same category as child molesters and beast fuckers. What kind of a preacher are you? Are you a follower of that sick fuck Fred Phelps and his hate-filled Westboro Baptist Church?
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| pdog |
quote:
Jerry in Boston wrote:
My god! You just put homosexuality in the same category as child molesters and beast fuckers. What kind of a preacher are you? Are you a follower of that sick fuck Fred Phelps and his hate-filled Westboro Baptist Church?
Dude his hate was spotted from the gate! Hate preachers and perverters of spiritual beliefs are more evil than those they think they're protecting people from. Guarentee you this asshole spends more time thinking about sex with men, than you do... How about we have science do some research on this assholes sick homophobic brain, and find out how much they suffer. Must be hard dealing with the contridiction of wanting to have sex with men and denying themselves from living it out.
Vito's of the world... Rocker is very Vito! |
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| the good |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Do you think there were born that way randomnly or this is a family trait?
There's only one openly gay member of my family, and I know she found it very hard to come out back in the early 90's. My uncle, her dad is a cop and what you would call old school...
All I know is this discusion does nothing to to deal with the real issue. Homosexuals deserve equal rights, human rights, that are being denied in my country.
In terms of homosexuality being talked about in terms of genetics, is not useful.
There's many human traits that can be discussed ad-nauseum in terms of what causes them. Like in my case, I'm an alcholic, as is most of my family, hmmm... Does it matter if I got a gene or if I learned the behavior? No, b/c I need to be in a solution, not be concerned with a cause. Maybe science will create a magic pill for me, which I doubt, but it doesn't matter. Part of the problem of my being an alcoholic, is I can't rationally think my way out of it. It's who I am, and I have to accept it. Everyone in one form or another has to deal with something in their life, that involves self awareness and self acceptance. If we go digging for causes, we may always just keep thinking ourselves into the problem. Is a women who wants larger breasts any different than a man who wants to have a sex change? Yes, but on what level, where do we draw the line, and if there's a line, does that change the fact that one will idiolized and the other demonized by society as a whole.
It's great that science has deep thinkers, willing to look at our genetics... BUT! we aren't evolved enough to jump into solving life's sexual mysteries, we need to stop violence, disease and maybe find a way to keep stupid people with cell phones from getting behind the wheel of a car first, before we go finding out why some chicks like chicks and some dudes like dudes!
[Edited by pdog]
Very good post P dog! Yeah, I know, sometimes it may seem like searching for a "cause" is not especially important. But that's what scientists do. And the truth matters. It matters enormously. But your point is well taken. Sometimes you just need to get on with your life. And sometimes you just need a way out. Hopefully science can provide it for most people. |
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
the good wrote:
So you think you were born a pole smoker? Just kidding Jerry. Maybe you were born gay. And that's fine, just be careful out there. And remain open to the possibility that some gay people were not born gay. I know that complicates things, but the world is a complicated place, and sometimes there aren't easy answers to life's big questions.
[Edited by the good]
Right, I know my life does not answer for all. But the same possibility exists that not all "straight" people were born straight either. 
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| pdog |
quote:
the good wrote:
Very good post P dog! Yeah, I know, sometimes it may seem like searching for a "cause" is not especially important. But that's what scientists do. And the truth matters. It matters enormously. But your point is well taken. Sometimes you just need to get on with your life. And sometimes you just need a way out. Hopefully science can provide it for most people.
If my kids are gay or straight, I will love them.
The rest is beyond me... I'm still grappling with the concept of infinity. Until I grasp that, everything else is rather trivial... LOL! |
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| pdog |
quote:
Jerry in Boston wrote:
Right, I know my life does not answer for all. But the same possibility exists that not all "straight" people were born straight either.
I like to tell people it's a phase I'm going through...
Keeps this debate in perspective for me, and helps me deal with idiots like rocker!
I've been called the coolest straight person by many in SF... It's probably in my top 3 of most flattering comments...
1 and 2 being you're a great father and you look like you're 28 not 38. |
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Dude his hate was spotted from the gate! Hate preachers and perverters of spiritual beliefs are more evil than those they think they're protecting people from. Guarentee you this asshole spends more time thinking about sex with men, than you do... How about we have science do some research on this assholes sick homophobic brain, and find out how much they suffer. Must be hard dealing with the contridiction of wanting to have sex with men and denying themselves from living it out.
Vito's of the world... Rocker is very Vito!
Pdog, you're right of course. And you might also be right about him thinking about sex with men more than me. LOL Although, I am a very sexual being... nah, he still thinks about it more than me. You're right.
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| pdog |
quote:
Jerry in Boston wrote:
Pdog, you're right of course. And you might also be right about him thinking about sex with men more than me. LOL Although, I am a very sexual being... nah, he still thinks about it more than me. You're right.
LOL! He'd be much happier if he just went and had sex with a man. Or maybe he does, and freaks out afterwards...
Vito, live free or die! |
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| Egbert |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I'm still grappling with the concept of infinity. Until I grasp that, everything else is rather trivial... LOL!
Yes! Me too! |
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| mickmask |
Without a doubt genetic and pre-determined.
Every gay/lesbian person I know has a not too distant relative that exhibits these characteristics, either openly or not...and not necessarily one that they have grown up with.
My friend is 'flamboyantly' gay...he's a drag queen at a local club...and his mother is obviously quite masculine.
My sister-in-law has a sister that is lesbian..and now her own daughter is showing signs of this preferance also...and she's never spent time with this aunt.
Whether the bible or nature condones/accepts it or not..it's a biological fact..that's been hidden for many years. It's sad that these people have had to live their lives in shame/secrecy...there's nothing WRONG with them.
mm.
[Edited by mickmask] |
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| pdog |
quote:
mickmask wrote:
Whether the bible or nature condones/accepts it or not..it's a biological fact..that's been hidden for many years. It's sad that these people have had to live their lives in shame/secrecy...there's nothing WRONG with them.
It will change.... One day in the not so distant future. Not all that long ago, women and blacks weren't allowed to vote. an interacial couple were commiting a crime... and so on... It always seems that with things like interacial, religious fuckheads are the ones doing the hate preaching.
Jesus was Jewish, dark skinned and Gay! Accept it, and eat his body and drink his blood... LOL!
I'm getting alot of respect for alot of RO'er's in this thread! |
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| sirmoonie |
The only true discerning characteristic that gays have is that anyone who disagrees with me is one. |
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| StonesChick |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Do you think there were born that way randomnly or this is a family trait?
There's only one openly gay member of my family, and I know she found it very hard to come out back in the early 90's. My uncle, her dad is a cop and what you would call old school...
All I know is this discusion does nothing to to deal with the real issue. Homosexuals deserve equal rights, human rights, that are being denied in my country.
In terms of homosexuality being talked about in terms of genetics, is not useful.
There's many human traits that can be discussed ad-nauseum in terms of what causes them. Like in my case, I'm an alcholic, as is most of my family, hmmm... Does it matter if I got a gene or if I learned the behavior? No, b/c I need to be in a solution, not be concerned with a cause. Maybe science will create a magic pill for me, which I doubt, but it doesn't matter. Part of the problem of my being an alcoholic, is I can't rationally think my way out of it. It's who I am, and I have to accept it. Everyone in one form or another has to deal with something in their life, that involves self awareness and self acceptance. If we go digging for causes, we may always just keep thinking ourselves into the problem. Is a women who wants larger breasts any different than a man who wants to have a sex change? Yes, but on what level, where do we draw the line, and if there's a line, does that change the fact that one will idiolized and the other demonized by society as a whole.
It's great that science has deep thinkers, willing to look at our genetics... BUT! we aren't evolved enough to jump into solving life's sexual mysteries, we need to stop violence, disease and maybe find a way to keep stupid people with cell phones from getting behind the wheel of a car first, before we go finding out why some chicks like chicks and some dudes like dudes!
[Edited by pdog]
I think it's a family trait in this case, but who knows and as you said it really isn't the issue. There's no reason that I can think of for my brother or cousins being gay, especially knowing their siblings and how "ungay" they are.lol I'm still baffled by people who consider homosexuals to be child molesters, but I'm used to it, have heard it all. |
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| pdog |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
The only true discerning characteristic that gays have is that anyone who disagrees with me is one.
Word? |
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| the good |
quote:
mickmask wrote:
Without a doubt genetic and pre-determined.
Clueless propaganda. True for some, not true for others. Your statement just adds more confusion to this debate. |
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| pdog |
quote:
the good wrote:
Clueless propaganda. True for some, not true for others. Your statement just adds more confusion to this debate.
I used to think I was confused, maybe Bi-sexual, not sure who I was, then I realized, I'm really just a horny slut! |
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I've been called the coolest straight person by many in SF... It's probably in my top 3 of most flattering comments...
1 and 2 being you're a great father and you look like you're 28 not 38.
Dang, wanna date? LOL j/k
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| pdog |
quote:
Jerry in Boston wrote:
Dang, wanna date? LOL j/k
I get hit on often enough... It's when it stops I'll be concerned. |
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
pdog wrote:
It always seems that with things like interacial, religious fuckheads are the ones doing the hate preaching.
Jesus was Jewish, dark skinned and Gay! Accept it, and eat his body and drink his blood... LOL!
I'm getting alot of respect for alot of RO'er's in this thread!
Yeah, isn't it strange that the overly religious people are the ones using so much hate-speak? At least that's what it seems on the surface anyway. I find it a bit two-faced - to preach so much about jesus being all about love and how they want to be like him but then judge others. Didn't somebody say something about don't judge unles you get judged too?
Personally, I think Jesus was a dark skinned, gay, Reform Jew.
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| Jerry in Boston |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I get hit on often enough... It's when it stops I'll be concerned.
LOL
If the boys stop hitting it's time to hit the gym! LOL |
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| pdog |
It is well known the last supper was the first Pride event in the history of the world...
He wore man sandals, danced on the water, drank wine and was always hanging out with a bunch of men. Duh!
The question isn't was Jesus gay, it's was he a top or a bottom? |
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| rocker |
Guys your totally missing the point. Oh well.... and as far for thinking about men nothing could be further from the truth. Actually i like P-Dogs chinese girl, and stripper.
P-Dog you dont need any help from alcoholism. Its genetic. Who cares if the behavior is destructive? Im being in "tongue-in-cheek" of course. Also congrats on being the coolest straight guy in San Francisco. Maybe you'll make the history books.
As for Fred Phelps, i must conur he is foolish, and defintely a hater. Again, I do not hate homosexuals. You say that i hate them simply because I didnt view homosexuality as you do. I have known, and do know, homosexuals and i've never bashed them.
As for rights. What rights are they being denied? I guess your going to say marriage. The last i saw ive never seen a "homosexuals only" water fountain. Would you be in favor of polygamy? Should people who want to have more than one partner be allowed to legally marry?
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| pdog |
quote:
rocker wrote:
As for rights. What rights are they being denied? I guess your going to say marriage. The last i saw ive never seen a "homosexuals only" water fountain. Would you be in favor of polygamy? Should people who want to have more than one partner be allowed to legally marry?
This is about Homosexuals, so why is polygamy being mentioned? Whatever...
Rights, the same exact, with no difference, rights I enjoy with my marriage. Call it whatever you want, union, marriage, partnership... There's many rights denied, tool ong to list. Healthcare, Finances, child custody ect... long list! |
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| rocker |
Ok guys where are the hard core facts that it is genetic?
This has yet to be empirically proven as fact. To argue that is just as fundamentialistic of you as it is for a religious fundamentalist to argue for six literal days of creation. You make it too simple.
Just because something is gentically proven must make something healthy.
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| rocker |
If a homosexual has no control over his homosexuality then perhaps a polygymist or a bi siexual has no control over their sexuality, so how could you allow for marriage and not allow for polygamists and bisexuals to get married? You can't without being inconsistent, and unjust.
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| pdog |
quote:
rocker wrote:
Ok guys where are the hard core facts that it is genetic?
This has yet to be empirically proven as fact. To argue that is just as fundamentialistic of you as it is for a religious fundamentalist to argue for six literal days of creation. You make it too simple.
Just because something is gentically proven must make something healthy.
Does it matter if it's a choice or a born trait?
What is unhealthy about two people in love? This question moots every argument or point... Please answer... |
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