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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Stones "a-political"? IMO it would be nice to have a good discussion of the political implications of the Stones lyrics. But I suppose one could write books on that. |
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| stonedinaustralia |
good god TTM - not this again
i always find it an interesting topic but too many times the discussion degenerates into a shouting match which goes nowhere
apart from sweet black angel can't think of any other tracks that make a political comment about anything
street fightin man is not pro revolution it is a resignation to apathy - "what can a poor boy do" as they say
perhaps the track "some girls" could be interpreted as a political statement putting forward the case for misoginy
but it depends how you define "politics" - as Hunter Thompson would have it "politics is the art of controlling your environment" in which case you could say the stones are very poltical as the underlying theme of much of their work suggests that the world is a mean and cut-throat place where everybody is looking out for themselves and if you are going to survive in such an environment then you'd better learn how to be mean and cut throat and not care too much for anybody else - not a terribly attractive philosophy but a very practical one nonetheless
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
>good god TTM - not this again<
Well maybe "politics" isn't quite the right word, how about something just a hair beyond the "Entertainment Value."
>i always find it an interesting topic but too many times the discussion degenerates into a shouting match which goes nowhere<
That is true. But people who resort to that either don't have a valid point or can't articulate what they're thinking very well.
>apart from sweet black angel can't think of any other tracks that make a political comment about anything<
Well I'd suggest that breaking social taboos about fornication, for example, is quite political or at least has those implications.
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Well I'd suggest that breaking social taboos about fornication, for example, is quite political or at least has those implications.
yeah - that's kind of what i was getting at in my post too - without pushing any "line" they have had quite an influence above and beyond being simply "song and dance" men |
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| Gazza |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
good god TTM - not this again
i always find it an interesting topic but too many times the discussion degenerates into a shouting match which goes nowhere
apart from sweet black angel can't think of any other tracks that make a political comment about anything
Blinded By Rainbows
High Wire |
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| gimmekeef |
Wasnt C***SUCKER Blues about Bill Clinton? |
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| Nasty Habits |
"Let me go directly to the point. I'm for doing some replacing. I've discussed the Replacement Party with people all over this country and I'm often confronted with the statement - 'I don't want to get mixed up in politics,' or 'I'm tired of politics,' or 'I'm not interested.' Almost as often, someone said, 'I can't do anything about it anyway.' Let me point out two things. Number One: All of us are deeply involved with politics whether we know it or not and whether we like it or not. And Number Two: We can do something about it. When you pay more for an automobile than it cost Columbus to make his first voyage to America, that's politics." Hal Phillip Walker
Most art is political in one way or another. Politics is a shit load more than the government, and political commentary does not necessarily just boil down to protest or endorsement. In fact, it can be said that any time you are actually coherently detailing a particular point of view, you are being political. When you leave your country to avoid paying taxes and then name your best album after it, that's politics.
At the same time, it's rock and roll. Protest is one of its essential functions. When someone yelled "Play protest songs" at Bob Dylan in 1966 while he's playing his rock music with the band he (purportedly) responds, "Oh, come on. They're ALL protest songs."
By virtue of the very fact that the Stones music and persona is about a lifestyle and a certain sort of freedom and its consequences, they are an extremely political band of sorts, when they matter, anyway, even if they don't spend a whole lot of time (thank god) talking about "the hills of San Salvador" or whatever.
Songs like Mother's Little Helper, 19th Nervous Breakdown, Play with Fire, Let's Spend the Night Toghether, Who's Driving Your Plane, We Love You, etc. are deeply political statements albeit not necessarily ones about direct governmental policy. Stupid Girl, Under My Thumb, Back Street Girl, et. al. are an entirely other political warfare that maybe they learned to cash in on and/or exploit in the 70s.
The last truly great political Rolling Stones album is Some Girls - it has a coherent and aware point of view that feels like an actual response to a current political climate from beginning to end, and it holds together from its opening dreamscapes of Manhattan to its shattered realities piled high on a platter as well as any other Stones album has. Because of its politics. Anyone who doesn't think "Before they make me run" isn't a deeply political song is nuts.
I find the direct politics of Undercover much less compelling than I do the more subtle landscapes of Some Girls. The single is OK, but It Must Be Hell is just not a good song, lyrically, anyway, although I do like the end, even if it isn't earned. The rest of the album doesn't support its bookends, however, so the whole thing is just an interesting if cobbled together slew of rock tunes.
The politics of Dirty Work are endlessly fascinating and permeate even such musical dogs as Back to Zero or poorly arranged/instrumentally deployed tunes like Winning Ugly. Interband conflict comes to symbolize mid 80s upwardly mobile back stabbing greedheadism, and vice versa - If you can plug into the politics of Dirty Work I think you'll get it.
It is this coherent point of view that makes Rolling Stones records work and the lack thereof that has made the records of the last 16 years, ultimately, failures.
I think it's because they don't stay in Stones mode all the time anymore so they don't constantly see the world through Stoned Eyes.
Stoned eyes don't lie when you're high.
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
Good post Nasty. I won't even attempt to unpack it though...it's too loaded. I'll have to re-read it and think about it for awhile. |
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| keith_tif |
For me the most political Stones' song is STREET FIGHTING MAN because in the same time, there were MAY 68 in France: young people rebellion |
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| Nasty Habits |
quote:
stonedinaustralia wrote:
yeah - that's kind of what i was getting at in my post too - without pushing any "line" they have had quite an influence above and beyond being simply "song and dance" men
I thought this was a rather politically diplomatic response to a baffling observation, sai.
Although they have pushed any number of lines. Cut them, chopped them, inhaled them, regurgitated them, etc.
"Show me a plug and I'll pull it!"
Masked and Anonymous |
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| prism |
"Oh No Not You Again" was written when Bush was re-elected and was chosen as the first new song to be played live right after Blair was re-elected. But the guys stopped at the title and made the rest of the lyrics into a love song. I find certain lines in many of the songs to be political. "Undercover" for example. Analysis of religion is also evident in more than one song. "Your old time religion is just superstition". |
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| stonedinaustralia |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Blinded By Rainbows
High Wire
of course gazza - you are correct - i didn't think that response of mine all the way through
and nasty, excellent post as usual and as we've all come to expect - you should right a book man  |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
prism wrote:
"Oh No Not You Again" was written when Bush was re-elected and was chosen as the first new song to be played live right after Blair was re-elected. But the guys stopped at the title and made the rest of the lyrics into a love song. I find certain lines in many of the songs to be political. "Undercover" for example. Analysis of religion is also evident in more than one song. "Your old time religion is just superstition".
Well as Mick is a personal friend of Tony Blair's(afterall it was Blair's prodding that got Mick the title Sir),and the fact Stones have stated numerous times that they leave politics out of the equation musically,I think ONNYA is the furthest thing from a political song. I would say it is far more likely a reference to Mick's sexcapades over the years as opposed to any hidden message about Bush or Blair. Unless,ofcourse,Bush and Blair's tits make Mick feel like jello!
For all the talk about the Stones being hardcore liberals and therefore having an axe to grind about rightwing politics,I say bollocks! Shit name one other band that so convincingly and completely embraced capitalism the way the Stones have! I mean shit the Stones introduced corporate sponsorships to supplement the cost of touring. Every tour since 1981(Jovan) to present day(Ameriquest)has been sponsored by bigwig corporate muckety mucks. Hardly the modus operandi of the liberal mindset.
That does not mean that the Stones embrace conservatism any more than they embrace liberalism. It just proves that the Stones don't operate from any political side of the fence. They are realists,and as such,they operate more for finacial gain than for any political ideology.
Riffhard |
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| prism |
Mick Jagger, El Pais Interview, 2001:
"Many Americans have no idea of the true foreign policy of their country. No offense, it's just a fact. If you don't know about something, you don't know what's going on. The Americans are given very simple explanations for what happens to them....As war proceeds, the majority will disagree. Patriotism is an instant reaction that fades away after war starts."
I know Mick and Keith have discussed the Downing Street memo this month. |
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| icydanger |
Hold back or don't hold back? i see it as a metaphor, a call for the crowd to react |
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| glencar |
Apparently the "crowd" decided to ignore that metaphorical message. I recall the review in Village Voice for "Undercover" disparaged the Stones' immature political attempts. |
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