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Mick Jagger in Perú, 1982
Archives: Tomás D'Ornellas, Photo by René Pinedo
From Cucho Peñaloza's book "Los Rolling Stones en Perú"

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Topic: Taylor and Jagger Collaborations Return to archive Page: 1 2
6th June 2004 09:03 AM
penatonic fix Does anyone think that Taylor collaborated with Jagger on songs like Winter,Sway, Moonlight Mile, and Hide Your Love.Keith was missing in action due to his drug problems and Jagger needed that second guitar to get those songs done. Also I think Taylor helped Jagger to try and sing
the melodies Taylor was playing.Jagger plays guitar on all those songs except Hide Your Love where he plays piano and he really needed Taylor's guitar to complete the songs.


There are so many examples of Taylor getting Jagger to sing his ass off (or jagger would of been on record flat (we all know jagger at best he sings around the notes) but with Taylor's vibrato that changed especially on the songs they collaborated on that were magical moments on record(moonlight,TWFNO etc. But the greatest example is on Winter where there collaboration is two fold. Listen to jagger's sweet delivery after each verse against Taylor's guitar. When Jagger sings 'wrap my coat around you woman' that fine
beautiful moment its jagger's turn to influence Taylor that sets up MT's brilliant melodic wonderment. That solo could stop time and make us all dive into his tonal lines. The whole world stops for me every time I listen to that and its haunting.

8th June 2004 07:13 AM
penatonic fix I guess I will let this thread and topic die but when I listen to these recordings time and time again,these songs have Taylor's stamp on them.All these songs are magical and have Taylor's melody line has the centerpiece with a great jagger vocal performance.I just can buy the fact that jagger just said Taylor play on my que and that was how these songs were crafted and completed.

I know I am stuck in these time period and probably have listened to these songs way to much and now subjective in my thoughts about possible jagger/taylor collaboration.

Sorry for the ramble,I guess I will always have this
SWAY in me.
9th June 2004 06:32 AM
penatonic fix I guess its 'Just My Imagination' but I wonder what the control room studio logs document on songs where Keith was missing in action and jagger needed another guitar player.
Its my understanding in the record industry they document who plays what parts and who is present on the studio on songs.This is the job of the engineer I guess.

I guess Time Waits For Know One .
11th June 2004 06:37 AM
penatonic fix Maybe someday Keith or jagger will ask Taylor to play on
a solo project once the stones pack it in.Thats my only hope
of ever bringing back the glory.
11th June 2004 09:51 AM
Gazza well..Taylor co-wrote "Moonlight Mile" with Jagger, it was originally worked on as "The Japanese Thing" before Jagger finished the lyrics. I dont think Keith had anything to do with it's composition at all. As Mick and Keith have a long standing agreement that any song either of them writes for the band is credited to the both, thats the only reason why Keith gets a composer co-credit. Technically speaking, it should be credited to Jagger-Richards-Taylor in that case but not for the last time, Taylor got frozen out.
11th June 2004 09:52 AM
Gazza >Maybe someday Keith or jagger will ask Taylor to play on
a solo project once the stones pack it in.Thats my only hope
of ever bringing back the glory.

keith already has. "I could have stood you up" features Taylor on guitar.
11th June 2004 10:34 AM
jpenn11 Keith's contribution to Moonlight Mile, according to timeisonourside.com:

I thought I wasn't on Moonlight Mile but the last riff everybody gets into playing is a riff I'd been playing on earlier tapes before I dropped out.
- Keith Richards, 1971

The only thing in Sticky Fingers I don't have anything to do with is Moonlight Mile, 'cause I wasn't there when they did it. It was great to hear that because I was very out of it by the end of the album and it was like listening, really listening. It was really nice.
- Keith Richards, 1971


[Edited by jpenn11]
11th June 2004 10:58 AM
Mel Belli Taylor's contributions were more atmospheric than compositional ... Not that that diminishes him in any way. But I don't think Taylor came up with the lick to MM or "If You Really Want to Be My Friend" or any of the rest we associate with him.

(Although I remember reading somewhere that he flat-out wrote the "Live With Me" riff - or at least as it's played on Ya Yas, with a guitar intro instead of bass.)

Did Taylor deserve songwriting credit for those lapidary lines he played on "Winter," which pretty much make the song? I don't think so. The guy who comes up with the chords, the melody and the lyrics deserves the attribution.

Everything else is gravy.

Tasty, but still just gravy.
11th June 2004 12:38 PM
Nasty Habits It's difficult to believe that Taylor inspired Jagger much on Winter's "wrap my coat around you" lines considering that they are very similarly sung on "Blood Red Wine", which I don't believe has Taylor anywhere near it. Hide Your Love's inspiration would seem to be more Ray Charles or some other blues pianist rather than Mick Taylor, who plays a fairly standard set of blues solos (particularly well) on what is a fairly predictable (but still quite loveable) blues vamp.

Moonlight Mile is another thing entirely, though. Jagger's final, wordless vocals do indeed seem to be inspired by those lovely little lines Taylor plays on the outro, or vice versa.

11th June 2004 12:54 PM
penatonic fix Good points and I agree Jagger wrote the lyrics and chord foundation but I think Taylor helped Jagger get the songs crafted and complete and finished.Jagger needed that 2nd guitar to experiment with and noodle with and playing with another player in the studio who knows what Taylor could of added or suggested to the final outcome of the song.
11th June 2004 01:03 PM
jb I agree with your analysis...
11th June 2004 01:44 PM
penatonic fix Gazza,

I was thinking after the stones retired, I was aware that Taylor played on one cut on Keith's record.Also Keith joined Taylor on stage in 1987 at the Lonestar Cafe in NY,keith joined in on Key To The Highway and they did amazingly Cant You Hear Me Knockin a great boot to get.
11th June 2004 02:12 PM
marko I was thinking after the stones retired

what?
11th June 2004 02:15 PM
jb
quote:
marko wrote:
I was thinking after the stones retired

what?

That's a scary thought...
11th June 2004 04:33 PM
penatonic fix I think Winter is one of the greatest songs the stones ever did in the studio and it was done without Keith and thats why credit should of been given to Taylor.Its so frustrating
to me that they can,t play the song live and that should in
itself be worth a credit or mention of Taylor.

Has Keith ever mentioned why they choose not to play live the songs he was MIA and Taylor took his role and helped get
the songs done.

1/2 royalty is better than 1/3 royalty with the gimmer twins.But Taylor lost millions quitting the band so why do
even care at this point,I guess the statue of limitations
never expires with creating ART and thats what Taylor helped
do.
11th June 2004 04:39 PM
jb Are yoyu surprised? keith never gives MY credit...or anyone else for that matter..
11th June 2004 05:01 PM
penatonic fix jb,

Yeah your right on,The only time Keith seems genuine and
caring is when he praises the old blues players that went
before him.I think he helped Johnnie Johnson get into the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.But Keith said nice words about
Taylor's playing in general terms as his spin in all the rock interviews all these years.I guess Keith with jagger the CEO of the rolling stones money machine can say and do what he chooses and the spin will keep spinning.
11th June 2004 05:06 PM
jpenn11 They played Moonlight Mile during a tour around 1995. Perhaps during other tours as well.
11th June 2004 05:09 PM
Bloozehound Coming Soon!


MT vs. the World
11th June 2004 05:29 PM
penatonic fix Bloozehound,

Its always good to joke around and not be serious I just brought up this thread because some of us like me grew up with the Ron Wood ERA and thought weaving worked all these years untill I went back to Taylor's contributions a couple of years ago and think its important to tell new fans and
old what went done and how the stones sound changed with
Taylor,the stones went from a pop sound to a more dirty
blusier sound with taylor.Taylor changed the sound of the
stones and with the big stadium shows in the 70's the stones needed Taylor,the fans wanted the soaring solo,with
all the other classic rock bands of the 70's.Keith's sound of the stones two guitars joined to the hip and acting as one was the Keith law and the sound Keith always wanted. No distinction between the rhythm and lead player,in direct contrast to taylor/keith duo.He could of selected Wayne Perkins and other great players when taylor quit,but he choose a player similiar to his style and sound.

sorry but they were the greatest rock and roll band once
with that lineup.Some of my friends think Keith played all
those great solos on those records and not taylor which is
sad that his work goes unnoticed with the mainstream rock
fan.Even the rock journalist during that period would write
in a review Keith richards lead guitarist of the RS.
11th June 2004 05:36 PM
penatonic fix Damm,release the 1972 material so the whole world can get
an opportunity to hear how great the stones sounded and
get a glimpse of a guy named Mick Taylor and his vibrato.
But we get in replace 4 FLICKS.
11th June 2004 06:42 PM
Bloozehound
quote:
penatonic fix wrote:
Bloozehound,

...I went back to Taylor's contributions a couple of years ago and think its important to tell new fans and
old what went done and how the stones sound changed with
Taylor,the stones went from a pop sound to a more dirty
blusier sound with taylor.Taylor changed the sound of the
stones....




Hey Mr MT fan # 1...and all this time I thought it was just me who knew all this. Forget that poppycock about Beggers Banquet, JJF, Keef, open tunings & ry cooder. Screw all that noise concerning what happened about 2 years before his lordship MT joined up, they don't know what they're talkin bout anyways man, all liars an shit !!

Cuz it was MT all along man !! They were channeling MT's wishes through some serious voodoo man !

In fact, the Stones were his band all along dude, shoulda been called "The Rolling Along With Mick Taylor Band" since it was ALL him, in fact have ya heard about that time in...I forget...I think it was England, when they were late to a gig and the audience was so hungry they were about to riot, so MT opened his guitar case and fed them an unending amount of loaves of bread and fishes, all night long dude, till no one was hungry anymore...cuz he's the man right ?!?

I also heard bout another time it was raining real hard and they were traveling by bus, rivers overflowed, so s he hoisted the bus up into his afro and flies them all right over that swollen river, all the while guitar in his hands finishin writing Moonlight Mile !! True!! Swear to god man...swear to god !!

And then that evil, freakin' Ron Wood dude comes along and fires ol' MT an shit man !!! Such a bum trip dude...I mean like POOF! then WHAM!...whoa...the party's over..heh heh!!




[Edited by Bloozehound]
11th June 2004 07:37 PM
penatonic fix I have stated that the music of the stones starts with the
songwriting and Jagger/Richards were probably the greatest duo in writing songs and arrangements,what Taylor did in the
studio and live was to enrich the material and put a stamp
on some of the music and he did change the sound of the stones especially live.The stones were famous before Taylor
joined but were not well off financially due to Klein.I am
trying to be objective and discuss Taylor's impact with the
band.It was not all Taylor it was the whole band and the
great music they played and wrote during that era.The whole
deal changed when the 70's came, before it was important to
make singles and pop records in the studio,but with the
larger areans and staduim shows you had to know play those
songs live,jagger/richards compositions provided Taylor an
opportunity to showcase his vibarto.Keith gave him the chance to play those wonderful extended solos and that was
great on his part.All the classic bands had a great lead
player,don,t you think Jagger knew the game was changing and to compete with the larger acts had to have a player like MT.How could the stones been successful going into
1970's and playing live without that great 2nd guitar.
Remember they did not tour for 3 years and Taylor comes
in just listen to JJF on the video Gimme Shelter how great
they sounded with taylor in the mix.Listen to how great
Under My Thumb sounds at Altamount live it never sounded
better,the truth lies not here but with the actual live
recordings that will be around forever.jagger/richards
compostions sounded the best with taylor in the mix.He
was the best musician the stones had not to discount RW and
BJ who played many instruments well.




11th June 2004 08:17 PM
gotdablouse
quote:
jpenn11 wrote:
They played Moonlight Mile during a tour around 1995. Perhaps during other tours as well.



That would be 1999, I'm pretty sure they played it In Sacramento or Oakland before Mick got sick and bailed out on the San Jose shows (they came back in April) but alas did not play MM but we got a great I got the blues instead one night and...can't remember the other "rarity" they played the second night...hehe after looking it up it turns out they played MM the second night ;-)

Strange no one has mentioned Time Waits for No One, which is the obvious one for a MT credit, actually make that MJ-MT and Nicky Hopkins.
12th June 2004 07:34 AM
penatonic fix You are correct they played it in 1999.My friend took into
MCI center a recorder and shot the show.They play moonlight
with Jagger on acoustic.
12th June 2004 09:48 PM
jpenn11 It should be on the video Cardinal Fang was circulating in the "PLEASE help if you can" thread that's been stickied.
13th June 2004 08:21 AM
penatonic fix okay see if i can get a copy
13th June 2004 06:26 PM
littleredrooster They played Moonlight Mile during the opening show of No Security!
It was a great suprise to hear it live in 1999 !

Roostah
14th June 2004 06:19 AM
penatonic fix What amazed me was Jagger played the opening riff on moonlight.I never saw him play a riff before
14th June 2004 07:37 AM
Doxa Penatonic, I think you have made valid points.

Charlie Watts once said that the contribution Taylor did was that he "brought professionalism". You can intepret that that was the thing the Stones lacked before him. The pop band of the 60's needed to transform to serious live act of the 70's. The key element was Mick Taylor. Yeah, the Stones was a dirty blues band already in Beggars Banquet, but to transform that music into a strong and relevant live presence needed skills of someone like Taylor. The material of Rock'n Roll Circus is a proof of that. They weren't competing with the Beatles anymore; there were all those led zeppelins, creams, whos and hendrixes to be compared to.

Retrospectively speaking, the Stones always have had an ideal "second" guitarist. Always the right man in a right time. Brian Jones was the right man in the swinging sixties, with all his out-looks, multi-instrumentalisms and so on. Taylor was the man of the time of supergroups and egoistic lead guitarists. With Ron Wood the Stones were ready to take the challange of punk rock and change of climate. After that, well... they are like elder statesmen of rock and do not need to worry about the changing trends - the less you change, the better it is

Doxa
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