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| Dan |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
The USSR self destructed due in large part to corruption and government waste...Gee that sounds eerily familiar.And I'm not on any side.Have no respect for Repubs and Dems alike..hate all politicians.....
Yep. And there is also a fair amount of re-writing history on Ronald Reagan on the conservative side too. |
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| telecaster |
quote:
Dan wrote:
It will be funny seeing the Republicans put into the position of having to back/defend an admitted pedophile. Also current Democrat Jennifer Granholm has fallen beneath the 50% mark in the polls so there might very well be a Republican incumbent in 2010 and a designated successor in 2014.
Jennifer Granholm?
Where was she born again?
Admitted pedophile? What are you talking about?
Here is a thought:
If you post something.... have a point
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| Riffhard |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
The USSR self destructed due in large part to corruption and government waste...Gee that sounds eerily familiar.And I'm not on any side.Have no respect for Repubs and Dems alike..hate all politicians.....
This is proof positive that you have not read much about the fall of the USSR. The Soviet Union had delt with corruption,and near bankruptcy for decades prior to Reagan ever becoming president. This is the liberals number one revisionist history story. It does not jibe with any of the facts of the day though. In fact Reagan's own State Department told him that the USSR could use sheer force to hold onto power for the next century or more. There was also widespread belief that the USSR would use their military for further advancing the Soviet influence in the surronding region. This is why all the Dems,and even some Repubs,told Reagan to stay the course with appeasement.
The truth is that Reagan,Thatcher,and Pope John Paul II won the Cold War. Reagan led the way though. If that hurts anyone's liberal sensibilities I'm sorry,but that's just the facts.
Riffy |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Here is a thought:
If you post something.... have a point
Not that he has EVER done so himself.... |
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| Dan |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
Jennifer Granholm?
Where was she born again?
You don't have to be born in America to qualify for the governorship in many states such as Michigan and California.
quote:
Admitted pedophile? What are you talking about?
Ted Nugent. He liked the real under-aged groupies. There are a few juicy quotes out there straight from the horses mouth even if you don't believe Courtney Love when she says she sucked him off backstage before she was old enough to have tits.
quote:
Here is a thought:
If you post something.... have a point
And here is a thought for you: If you don't get the point, ask for clarification or better yet just skip the posts together. |
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| gimmekeef |
Riffy..doesnt hurt my feelings at all.Glad that a Pope actually did something positive.I'm a liberal in the non political sense.Prefer to keep my options open so I dont always feel obliged to support a position just because someone whose in office wasting my money tells me I should... |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
The Soviet Union had delt with corruption,and near bankruptcy for decades prior to Reagan ever becoming president.
You'll have to cite some reliable sources here. I don't believe that for a second.
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| gimmekeef |
Lol....we're off again.. |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Lol....we're off again..
That goddamned Ted Nugent, always trying to stir things up. |
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| lotsajizz |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
You'll have to cite some reliable sources here. I don't believe that for a second.
some!?! hundreds could be cited, but the Dmitri Volkogonov biography series on the USSR's leaders is a good place to start (Amazon/Google)----the Soviet system was rotten from the start |
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| gimmekeef |
Yup..always tryin a Journey To The Center of Our Minds! |
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| PeerQueer |
While true the Soviet Union was suffering significant economic issues, the general consenses was that it still enjoyed the size and strength to continue onward for many more decades.
I believe it was Schlesinger who, after returning from the Soviet Union in 1982 said Reagan was dillusional in his belief that the Soviet Union was much weaker than Americans had been led to believe. He had open contempt for anyone claiming the Soviets were near collapse, declaring that its economy was in many ways far superior to our own. This tone was very much the general consensus among the American and Western European intellectuals. It was the message I received while in high school my early college years.
I find it laughable how the liberals at the time Reagan was saying the Soviet Union was near collapse, that it coule be defeated in our lifetimes, he was ridiculed for it. Then, when the Soviet Union collapses shortly after Reagan leaves office, they turn around and say it was going to do so anyway. Which is it? Was Reagan right or was he wrong? They can't have it both ways!
The Soviet Foreign Ministry Spokersperson during the 1980's later admitted that, "Reagan's SDI was very successful blackmail...the Soviet Union tried to keep pace with the American build-up but our economy could not keep pace." He pointed to Reagan as the primary cause of the Soviet Union's accelerated decline. I believe this same gentleman stated Reagan as being the most significant and formidable American President since WWII. Liberal historians love Gorbachev, forgetting he was a hard-core Party member who worked his way up the chain of command with cold and calculated success.
Gorbachev also admitted that his willingness to engage in Glasnost with the Western World was not out of simple choice, but rather necessity created by what the Soviet intelligence called a "different" American president - one who spoke with certainty and conviction - and meant it. Gorbachev was quoted as saying, "The Soviets feared Reagan - which means they also respected him. They later came to love him..."
I have debated many so-called intellectuals regarding Reagan. Each time, after beating them down into admitting they knew far less of Reagan and the events surrounding his presidency, I find that their dislike of Reagan mirrors a fundamental dislike of America. Such dislike is fed to them repeatedly throughout their public school experience, and then hammered home even more fervently at the college level. They are sad, unthinking creatures, who simply regergitate the liberal talking points they have been given over a lifetime, an existence very much akin to that of the communist.
Is it any wonder then, that they would despise Reagan...
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
You'll have to cite some reliable sources here. I don't believe that for a second.
No I don't. I know the truth concerning the end of the Cold War. Reagan won it. Nobody said he could and yet he did. The NYT,as did many others,wrote article after article calling him a war monger who was going to bring the wrath of the USSR down upon the USA. Yet Reagan ignored them all. He was right. They were wrong. Now TTM I could indeed cite link after link to prove the point of the Soviets imbending demise but I'm not going to go down that road. Read the book that I cited and you will find many of those facts.
Jizzy is absolutly right about the state of the Soviet sysytem. It was always corrupt and in need of cash to prop up the system. This,by the way,is the fundemental flaw of socialism. However,proir to Reagan the USA's foriegn policy concerning the USSR had always been to appease. The idea was to not be too confrontational. This is why people freaked when Reagan called the USSR the Evil Empire. He meant it though. He felt that the system was inherently evil. Again,he was right. He pushed them to the breaking point. What if he had listened to all the libs(like me at the time!),who said no nukes in Europe! It was Reagan's massive arms buildup and his threat of deploying STI(Star Wars) that broke the will of the USSR.
At the end of the day Bonnie Raitt,James Taylor,Bruce Springstein,and all the other artists that performed at that concert in 1979 may have had their hearts in the right place but their heads were firmly up their asses. Reagan knew this too. He put the ICBMs in Europe and then threatened and even more massive arms race and the deployment of a defensive missle sheild that wasn't even invented yet(SDI) becasue he knew that the Soviets could not keep up. They couldn't so they folded. When they did it was again Reagan who called for the most massive arms reduction in history. He won the Cold War,and then immediatly worked on the reduction of nukes that the Cold War had wrought.
That is the very definition is a great leader. Reagan was a great leader. He had the foresight to see a world without the Soviet Union constantly threatening Europe and the rest of the world. Not one other Western leader stood up to the Soviet threat like Reagan did. He pulled Thatcher into his way of thinking. People called him evey name under the sun and heaped boatloads praise on appeasers like Jimmy Carter,but it was Reagan's vision and will that brought about the end of that threat.
Riffy |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
He was right. They were wrong. Now TTM I could indeed cite link after link to prove the point of the Soviets imbending demise but I'm not going to go down that road. Read the book that I cited and you will find many of those facts.
Jizzy is absolutly right about the state of the Soviet sysytem. It was always corrupt and in need of cash to prop up the system.
OK. I misunderstood your original thing I quoted I think. The Soviet Union was bankrupt and corrupt, you said they had dealt with it which I assumed you meant they had solved those problems. I don't know of any society or economic system that's done that.
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| sirmoonie |
Ronald Reagan was a great president.
No one real has any fucking respect for George Walker Bush III whatsoever.
Ted Nugent will legalize pedophilia if he gets elected.
The current Pope is a scumbag. If the liberal media wasn't around, recent headlnes would have read "Former Fucking Nazi Blames God For World War II Holocaust."
Borrow and spend is a laughable fiscal policy invented by alchemists like George Walker Bush III. There he is - smack: a fucking fathead retarded alchemist. Him and all his Bush geek followers.
Dicked up? Bill Clinton, a Southern cracker by birth and geneology, is referred to by Bush geeks as "Bubba" in derogatory terms. The current useless twat in the White House is a smarmy, privileged Little Lord Fauntleroy bitch by birth and geneology and he INVENTED the faux-Southern cracker character of "Dubya" to impress the very same Bush geeks. Go figure. Figure go. Go? Figure.
The war in Iraq was won years ago if ridding the region of Saddam Hussein was the goal. The was in Iraq will NEVER be won if the George Walker Bush III dreamy, pie-in-the-sky nation-building goal is to spend hundreds of billions of dollars pretending to have some type of democracy whatsoever in an Islamic country.
All above is fact. |
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| Joey |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
The USSR self destructed due in large part to corruption and government waste...Gee that sounds eerily familiar.And I'm not on any side.Have no respect for Repubs and Dems alike..hate all politicians.....
Shiver .............................
Developing ................
Shiver ..............................
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a great president.
No one real has any fucking respect for George Walker Bush III whatsoever.
Well at least Reagan believed in the Constitution. We may have won the Cold War and beat the Nazis, but all for nought if the current and future leadership keeps chipping away at our fundemental freedoms.
Yet another "chip"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/05/30/national/w132119D75.DTL&type=politics
[Edited by Ten Thousand Motels] |
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| gimmekeef |
quote:
Joey wrote:
Shiver .............................
Developing ................
Shiver ..............................
Go back to sleep Joey...it will be all right in the morning.... |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
Well at least Reagan believed in the Constitution.
Reagan may have believed in the Constitution but the people working for him had no problem trampling on the Boland Amendment and Congressional oversight!! |
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| Dan |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
Reagan may have believed in the Constitution but the people working for him had no problem trampling on the Boland Amendment and Congressional oversight!!
He also cut and run after the attacks in Beirut, over 10 years before Somalia, emboldening the terrorists. |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
Dan wrote:
He also cut and run after the attacks in Beirut, over 10 years before Somalia, emboldening the terrorists.
You are right about that Dan,however,you have left out a very important little caveat here. Who was imploring him to make that move?
When Bin Laden planned the attacks of 9/11 he openly stated that once he saw the USA pull out of Somalia after sufering 18 losses he knew that we were a paper tiger. I dare say that he would not have felt that way had a leader like Reagan been in office at the time. Reagan learned pretty quickly from his mistakes in Lebbenon. Just ask Kaddafi how quickly Reagan would pull the trigger. He was no paper tiger. That much is for sure.
Riffy |
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| Dan |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
You are right about that Dan,however,you have left out a very important little caveat here. Who was imploring him to make that move?
That part is a little before my time. More along the lines of what were they doing there to begin with
quote:
When Bin Laden planned the attacks of 9/11 he openly stated that once he saw the USA pull out of Somalia after sufering 18 losses he knew that we were a paper tiger. I dare say that he would not have felt that way had a leader like Reagan been in office at the time. Reagan learned pretty quickly from his mistakes in Lebbenon. Just ask Kaddafi how quickly Reagan would pull the trigger. He was no paper tiger. That much is for sure.
Except what happened in Somalia made it look like a pattern more than just one or two isolated incidents. So I am sure Bin Laden saw what happened while Reagan was in office so who is to say how he would have felt? Not sure if I would agree with the paper tiger comment either except Bin Laden still hasn't been brought to justice. |
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| Riffhard |
Changing topics here real quick. Check this interview out with that nut that runs Iran. Moonie I think you will see that the German interviewer goes out of his way to state that all Germans feel a special kind of guilt. Here-->"Yet, we as Germans cannot absolve ourselves of a special guilt, namely for the systematic murder of the Jews."
Anyway read the whole interveiw to get an idea of just wacked out this fucker is. Iran must be delt with and words aren't going to get the job done.
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/int...,418660,00.html
Riffy
[Edited by Riffhard] |
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| lotsajizz |
if ridding the World of weird fuckers was/is our job...please explain the continued reign of "Mister so-Ronery" in North Korea
America, Fuck yeah...comin' agin' to save the motherfuckin' world!!
GREAT movie....
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| pdog |
I still cry at the loss my people suffered during WWII. I'm German and Jew, so for me the loss is staggering and the pain is deep and very real!
I was the last in my family to carry on the name, my grandfather had two sons and his only brother was killed over Europe while he fought in the Pacific. My uncle never had children, and I'm the only son my dad had. My two sons will have the chance to carry on our family name.
This is a big deal, so many of my family died b/c of both Stalin and Hitler.
I will never forget and never ever be ashamed of being German and Jewish.
There's nothing wrong with being me... God makes no mistakes!
[Edited by pdog] |
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| RSRTG |
They also made a Ted Nugent pinball machine back in the 70's so I guess he was kinda popular.....pardon my ignorance but I dont know too much about him or his music.....but in saying that, I've learnt a bit from this thread! |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
lotsajizz wrote:
if ridding the World of weird fuckers was/is our job...please explain the continued reign of "Mister so-Ronery" in North Korea
America, Fuck yeah...comin' agin' to save the motherfuckin' world!!
GREAT movie....
Agreed Jizzy,but what are your thoughts on a nuclear empowered Iran? That goes beyond scary. That could very well bring about a nuclear holocaust. I not only think that it could bring about a nuclear holocaust and world war,I would put money on it. This freak has said that he wants to bring the 12th Iman from beyond the grave to exterminate all infidels! He is beyond wacky. He is hell bent on starting Armeggeddon. He has said it flat out.
Yes I think America must help stop Iran,but the operative word here is help. The world loves to bitch and moan about the USA sticking our noses in everyone's bussiness,but somehow it's always left to the USA,and often times the UK,to do all the heavy lifting? Where the hell would Eastern Europe be if not for the USA sticking our noses into their bussiness? For that matter where would all of Europe be without our help? This time the rest of the world needs to step up and take this bastard down.
Riffy |
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| pdog |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Agreed Jizzy,but what are your thoughts on a nuclear empowered Iran? That goes beyond scary. That could very well bring about a nuclear holocaust. I not only think that it could bring about a nuclear holocaust and world war,I would put money on it. This freak has said that he wants to bring the 12th Iman from beyond the grave to exterminate all infidels! He is beyond wacky. He is hell bent on starting Armeggeddon. He has said it flat out.
Yes I think America must help stop Iran,but the operative word here is help. The world loves to bitch and moan about the USA sticking our noses in everyone's bussiness,but somehow it's always left to the USA,and often times the UK,to do all the heavy lifting? Where the hell would Eastern Europe be if not for the USA sticking our noses into their bussiness? For that matter where would all of Europe be without our help? This time the rest of the world needs to step up and take this bastard down.
Riffy
The only problem, i know of, The ROW having with the US, and especially Western Europe, is how ignorant we are. Not indivdually, but as a whole. Americans are not knowledgable of world affairs. You got to Europe, and Europeans will know more about what's happening here than most Americans. They laugh at CNN and Fox News. It's a joke to them, a tool of fear and ratings.
I'm not at all diagreeing with you about Iran. But thanks to President Blunderfuck no one wants to help us. I disagreed with his old man, but at least the guy actually had a foreign policy, met with leaders in their countries and read. He bult coalitions and didn't alienate us from out real friends. The current admin. has only themselves to blame. They got into office by smearing their other guy and making everyone scared, if they didn't vote for them, you're gonna die. That's their policy in a nutshell. Now we got Iran to deal with... Billions wasted in Iraq and so many injured soldiers. For what? Really... Was it worth it. I wasn't that scared, I'm more scared now, b/c it doesn't look like Iraq will be secure anytime soon, and not worth the price tag. But let not forget Cheney's battle cry... The smoking gun, might be a mushroom cloud.
They got the power, they got their wars, they won. Iraq is not better than it was before. More people have died to be free, than Saddam ever killed. And he wasn't as big a threat as North Korea, Iran... I knew it then, before the war. So much rhetoric and bullshit fear was used to promote the invasion... And at the same time, the avg. American doesn't know shit about what going on in Western Europe, but the news networks blast them. Ask a European, they know their country, ours and a ton of others.
Alienation, has led us to this place. Bush can not fix this. I wouldn't be surprised if the next step isn't so extreem we lose our elctions entirely. It will only take a nuclear strike... Cheney's mushroom cloud!
I'm ranting... This isn't really aimed at you either riffy, because we agree on so much! You gotta figure, if Americans don't know shit about what's happening in the countries in Western Europe, and they know ours better than most Americans, maybe they're right... Maybe Bush is really bad. |
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| PeerQueer |
quote:
Dan wrote:
That part is a little before my time. More along the lines of what were they doing there to begin with
Except what happened in Somalia made it look like a pattern more than just one or two isolated incidents. So I am sure Bin Laden saw what happened while Reagan was in office so who is to say how he would have felt? Not sure if I would agree with the paper tiger comment either except Bin Laden still hasn't been brought to justice.
___________
Ah Lebanon! A pivotal point in both the Reagan Administration and America's future with much of the Muslim world...
It must be noted that America was INVITED into Lebanon, as part of a multi-national force of peace keepers, namely British and Italian forces. Reagan made it clear America was there to ensure withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanese territory, as well as keep Syria from its repeated attempts to invade Lebanon as well.
Unfortunately, the newly elected Lebanese president was killed, the cabinet resigned out of fear, Syrian forces swarmed, Israel continued its militant stance, and the shit, as it were, quite literally hit the fan. No one knows for certain who was behind the bombing of the American embassy, but it was most likely the work of Islamic Jihad, originating from either Iran or Syria.
It must also be noted, that troops were repositioned onto several naval vessals just offshore, upon which some serious bombing took place on positions primarily impacting Syrian forces. One such campaign was for 9 hours straight - hardly the act of a "paper tiger" president. It should also be noted that the Muslims and Lebanese extremists were being armed to the teeth by the Soviets- who delighted in the events that transpired.
The events surrounding the bombing of Lebanon did lead to an increase in far more anti-American and militant feelings by Muslims around the world. Even though we were there to help ensure a free Lebanon, many Muslims feared Americans were there to help enforce a Jewish invasion.
Reagan was justifiably disgusted at the behavior of the people of Lebanon, Syria, Iran, and yes, even Isreal - we were invited in, and then they blew us up. He did not understand such behavior, and never really fully grasped the complexities of the Muslim World as it related to America.
And to this day, who has? |
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| sirmoonie |
George Walker Bush III pardoned terrorist killer of American children, Mumuamuamaamar-bin-laden Quadaffi. That piss-wimp is weak on terrorism, as are apologist Bush geeks. "It would have been better if he had never been born." - WC.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, think its good that we negotiate with terrorists in Iraq.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, want psychotic Islamic republics to control U.S. seaports. They get menstural when its pointed out howe bad an idea that is. Menstual. Men Stru Al.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, love anti-competitive laws. They love tarrifs. They love subsidies. They love the SEC. They love Medicare. The love Medicaid. The love drowning in flowers.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, love selling critical technology to China. Its the ONLY pro-business decisions that Bush geeks support. For some reason. Maybe because they are Bush geeks and George Walker Bush III told them too? Maybe. Just maybe.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, are weak on terrorism. They think that none of this country's 9/11 Commission Report recommendations should be adopted.
George Walker Bush III, and by reasonable extension Bush geeks, like to spend American taxpayer money. They are Bush geeks. They have no other purpose than to spend money and be retarded.
All above is fact. |
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