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Topic: question for the Ladies & Gents experts Return to archive
06-05-03 11:56 AM
T&A Just rec'd a copy of the DVD (4 Reel Productions) of Ladies & Gents. Awesome quality both sound and picture. But, for the first time, I am painfully aware of apparent overdubs on this - particularly noticeable are vocal overdubs on Happy (both KR and MJ) and the acoustic guitars on SV are both overdubbed. Has this been historically acknowledged before. Haven't had a chance to really watch the entire movie closely for other instances. But, I was disappointed at my discoveries to date....
06-05-03 12:38 PM
jb I have a average VHS were the sound goes in and out...I never really noticed the overdubs.....My favorite songs on that tape are GS, Happy(glimmer twins in their glory), YCAGWYW(Keith's back-up vocals almost make me cry), and yes, Bye-Bye Johnny.....Mick Taylor is so awesome yet barely noticeable except when they do those closeups on his guitar.......
06-05-03 12:55 PM
Phog The overdubs are most obvious during "Happy" as I recall. As Mick and Keef share the mic there's quite a bit that doesn't match-up. Then again, there is a lot of that movie that isn't overdubbed. During one of Taylor's solos (Love in Vain, I think), he and Charlie lose time for a quick beat. It happens during a close-up shot of Taylor's Les Paul. You'll notice it 'cause his guitar swings around when he looks back at Charlie. So, they cleaned some of it up and also left in some mistakes.
If you want to talk overdubbed Stones movies, take a look at "At the Max". As cool as it is, it's basically one big muisc video. Almost entirely lip-syncd.
06-05-03 01:14 PM
T&A Josh:

TOTALLY AGREE with your take on KR's backup vocals on YCAGYW from '72 - I also get choked up during the chorus duet....there's something absolutely PERFECT about those harmonies...he never has been able to replicate that - even on the '75 version, there's something lacking. In '72 he knew exactly what harmony note to hit and he kept it just behind Mick's melody....beautiful. Also BBJOhnny in '72 was the best 3:00 of rockn'roll ever played in my book. perfection.
06-05-03 01:25 PM
steel driving hammer
quote:
T&A wrote:
Also BBJOhnny in '72 was the best 3:00 of rockn'roll ever played in my book. perfection.



Damm Straight.

Well she finally got the letter she was dreaming of,
Johnny wrote and told her he had fell in love,
As soon as he was married he would bring her back,
And build a mansion for her by the railroad tracks,
And everytime they heard the locomotive roar,
They'd be a standing, waving in the kitchen doe.

Cheers Tod.

06-05-03 03:36 PM
Gazza >Just rec'd a copy of the DVD (4 Reel Productions) of Ladies & Gents. Awesome quality both sound and picture. But, for the first time, I am painfully aware of apparent overdubs on this - particularly noticeable are vocal overdubs on Happy (both KR and MJ) and the acoustic guitars on SV are both overdubbed. Has this been historically acknowledged before. Haven't had a chance to really watch the entire movie closely for other instances. But, I was disappointed at my discoveries to date....

I thought that the bootleg DVD (which is presumably the one you have,distributed by Tabcom and the same as the video copy I have)has its audio soundtrack overdubbed from the recordings used from the "STP '72" bootlegs, so there may conceivably be some differences between that audio and the one originally used in the movie which came out in 1974. the audio in band intros in the 'new' version are edited out
06-05-03 05:25 PM
T&A don't know who distributed this one - like I said it is from a "company" called 4 Reel Productions. I have doubts about your theory, Gazza....I have the 7disc set and I doubt there are overdubs on those soundboards (why would there be?). It makes sense that the Stones would have done overdubbing on this movie, given their anal retentiveness in general on live projects (ya-ya's, etc.).
06-05-03 09:00 PM
FPM C10 Is that the "L&G" that was being aggressively advertized as the greatest copy of the film available a few months back? SS got a copy of it, and as a video editor myself I saw that the sound source didn't synch with the picture; the guy would periodically re-synch it, and cover his tracks with a short video dub. I noticed the dubs before I noticed the stuff that wasn't in synch. They're mostly awkward and too short, and definitely weren't in the film originally. (Things like the cut away to Taylor's guitar that you mentioned.)All in all I thought the DVD wasn't any better than the standard video shot in a movie theater that I have. (That one's often purported to be "letterboxed" but the letterbox is crooked - it's just a picture of a movie screen and they didn't level the tripod correctly).

Another thing about the DVD - the sound source used is NOT the best available. There's one that's straight off the film that's better.

When I saw this DVD, I thought "I can do this better" - but I'm about 75 video projects behind - including the C10 movie which is approaching two years in the works. But since the cameraderie and brotherhood of the C10 has pretty much been trampled underfoot and discarded in the paranoid-schizoid aftermath of 9/11, there's no longer any reason to even finish that one. It's just a sad picture of what USED to be.
06-05-03 09:15 PM
Gazza >I have doubts about your theory, Gazza....I have the 7disc set and I doubt there are overdubs on those soundboards

its not my theory..i'm just going by the end credits on the video/DVD as I understood them
06-05-03 11:04 PM
steel driving hammer >But since the cameraderie and brotherhood of the C10 has pretty much been trampled underfoot and discarded in the paranoid-schizoid aftermath of 9/11, there's no longer any reason to even finish that one. It's just a sad picture of what USED to be.

My Brother, thats so sad and it hurt me deep down you said that.

Yes I lost a family member on 9/11 but I've only met her twice and we were not that close. But she was still family. Yada Yada Yada, then I call the Terrorists Sand N*ggers and Keno bans me from his board!

Jon, before smoking Nanky's chiba I felt very comfortable w/ you durring the C-10 meeting. I was honored you, SS, Sirmoone, Marko, Maxlugar, Nanky, chose to be my passenger. For your life was in my hands! LOL!

But please Jon, don't say my filming of the C-10 is a sad picture of what used to be. Because it really isn't.

Ham Sandwich and a Glass of Tea ;^)
06-06-03 02:40 AM
beer there is some definite trickery on ladies and gents. probably by the people who put the film together. watch "Bitch", one second keith is playin a les paul, the next he's playin a telecaster.
same with the Cocksucker Blues video. watch Street Fightin man. Keith magically appears with two completely different guitars again.

i have L-n-G on video and the sound and picture are really fuckin clear, too
[Edited by beer]
06-06-03 09:02 AM
FPM C10
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
>

My Brother, thats so sad and it hurt me deep down you said that.

But please Jon, don't say my filming of the C-10 is a sad picture of what used to be. Because it really isn't.




I wasn't talking about you specifically or exclusively, my Steel Driving Brother, or about your filming. The project I can't seem to finish is your footage mixed with mine (which you haven't seen) and other stuff - hodge podge fed thru a leslie - and the thing with THAT is that the main recurring motif is us trying to decide how you pronounce "Keno", wishing he was there - and now half the crew don't go to gasland - and we're all hanging out laughing and partying - but now there'd be fistfights - and we're drunk in an airport goofing sneaking thru metal detectors and a mere month later KAPOW the world lurches sickeningly end over end into madness paranoia hatred and dread and now we would certainly be detained if not sent to vacation in guantanamo for exactly the same activity. The disintegration of the C10 is just a metaphor for the disintegration of the world -- looking at evidence of what once was just underlines the forlorn picture of what no longer exists.

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