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Topic: The Zeppelin live mother lode Return to archive
05-30-03 06:09 PM
sandrew Just beginning to work my way through the new Led Zeppelin collection, "DVD" and "How the West Was Won."

It's mostly great, but I don't think Zep was any better than '72-73 Stones. (Imagine seeing both bands in the same year: I'm definitely living in the wrong era.)

Zeppelin was like a shooting star, though. By the late '70s, they were really starting to flag. And, with Bonham dying, they stopped without ever really embarrassing themelves, which they could very well have done.

The great thing about the Stones is that they've faltered many times but always come back strong at crucial moments -- "Jumpin' Jack Flash," "Some Girls," "Tattoo You," "Voodoo Lounge."

We can take pride in the fact that lots of bands had big days in the sun -- the Beatles, Led Zep, the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Guns N' Roses, to name a few -- but no band has lasted so damn long with its dignity intact.
05-31-03 01:57 AM
mac_daddy do you have a tracklist of "West" CDs? I think they are from the LA shows in 1972. How is the sound quality?

05-31-03 02:42 AM
FotiniD Sandrew, that's one very interesting topic for dicussion!
I've always admired Zeppelin's artistry, stage presence and composing (ok, although I DO think that Page is one big poser, but that's just me )

As about lasting long with your dignity intact... I'm not sure if you can really do that. Because the more years you stay on, the likelier it is you will grow tired at times, or produce an album that's really not up to your usual level of quality / composing / whatever. What I mean is that with time passing, a band has more albums to compare its newer ones with! And the comparison can only be unfair: for instance, how can you compare "Sticky Fingers" with "Bridges to Babylon"? Different eras, different opinions, a whole different world! So, it's a tricky question, the dignity thing...

However, I believe that if something's worth doing, it's worth overdoing so I respect and admire all bands that go on, when of course their motives are not just more money. I love the fact that the Stones are still here after all these years, I love Keith's attitude of "this isn't going to stop", and I love watching the changes as time goes by. What I'd also love to see would be a great new album, with tight sound and great lyrics - someone in an earlier thread posted something about Mick and how he can be the same person who wrote lyrics like "Rocks Off" and then the ones on his solo album. That's a good point. I'd like to see them working really hard and producing a fantastic album, cause we all know they can, they got it in them.

Wow, talk too much
05-31-03 07:59 AM
crb69 I picked up the dvd and it is very good. I'm waiting on the cd's for now. The first dvd shows Zep in 1969-70. You can hear & see why they made it and how they evolved into true stardom. The experimental music they made on stage was unique and new at the time. Then on the 2nd disc you see the true Zeppelin in their prime from 1973-79. I was impressed with the '75 Earls Court acoustic performances and Nebworth '79 is great. You can really see how Plant's stage presence improved over the first few years. Bonzo was really one of the greatest drummers ever. This is a must for anyone who was even remotely into Led Zep. Well worth the $18 I spent on it.
05-31-03 10:38 AM
full moon It is great.. Poseur????? NOT!!! He is a guitar legend...
05-31-03 11:05 AM
Martha Comparing Zep to the Stones is truly like comparing apples and oranges...it isn't relevant. IMHO. They are totally different had different circumstances and personalities and levels of talent and all the rest. Both bands are totally unique....and great for what they do and did. Why compare? I don't get that.

The Zep DVD is astonishing...anyone who has a remote interest..(even you Stonesy you should watch the footage of Bonzo on the Moby Dick track..you'll be blown away....and no Robert on this one, I know you can't stomach his voice..lol)....in Zeppelin must see this DVD. It is a rock and roll treasure. Thank goodness Pagey got this one out to all of the fans before the films completely disintegrated.

05-31-03 11:33 AM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy Ehhh... the CD and DVD both horribly decide to contain material from 1973, 1975 and 1979 as well. The 1972 stuff I'm sure is great, but I ain't a fan of 25-minute-long songs that go nowhere with Plant screeching or 19-minute-long drum solos. Zeppelin is all well and good, and I do really like a lot of their stuff, I just don't think they were a particularly good live band for a majority of their carreer. They got so famous that they didn't need to prove themselves anymore, so they didn't.

I heard "Rock And Roll" from the How The West Was Won CD and it sounded *terrible*. That's only one song, granted, but I was really looking forward to hearing it performed *well*.

Oh well.

-tSYX --- I'm goin' down...
05-31-03 01:22 PM
sammy davis jr. Not being more than a casual Zeppelin fan- If I hear Dazed and Confused one more time I'll puke....but the DVD is very cool. The Earl's Court stuff was what I was anxious to see, as I'd never heard any of it. I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I prefer Page's live playing over the studio....sure he get's sloppy once in awhile, but he does some really cool stuff live. Zep reminds me of the Stones in that sometimes songs seem to be ready to fall apart, but the intuitiveness of the band holds it all together. (Achille's Last Stand anyone?) The '72 stuff is superior- a band at it's zenith.
05-31-03 01:38 PM
Lazy Bones
quote:
mac_daddy wrote:
do you have a tracklist of "West" CDs? I think they are from the LA shows in 1972. How is the sound quality?



Tracklistings for both from the Achilles Last Stand site, here:
http://www.led-zeppelin.org/cd_dvd_tracklist.html

I bought both on Tuesday when they were released but I've only had only time to watch/listen to disc 1 from each set. Highlight, thus far for me, is Page on White Summer (track 4 DVD 1) from Royal Albert Hall, 1970. Phenomenal!
05-31-03 03:08 PM
mac_daddy thanks for the info, Lazy Bones. Keep us updated as you get through the sets

btw - you have PM
06-02-03 02:23 PM
Factory Girl Good article

http://www.washingtontimes.com/arts/20030530-084028-4010r.htm
06-02-03 07:23 PM
Sir Stonesalot Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'll pass, thank you.

Sorry Martha...I'm not into drum solos either. Moby Dick, to me, is something big and white and dragging across the ocean floor(think about it for a second, it's really funny). When it's time for the big drum solo, I hit the pisser.

IMO, songs should be no longer than 3-5 minutes, with a few short, searing guitar breaks. Of course, there are exceptions. Midnight Rambler for one. That's a long one that is just perfect. This is another big reason why I can't get into Zep or the Dead, especially live...the songs just go on forever. I have the same problems with a lot of Jazz. I lose interest and get bored. It's just the kind of guy I am. I know people who have an "unbelievable 47 minute version of Dark Star mannnn". That's great if you are into that kind of thing, but personally that is about 42 minutes too long for me. You got me with the first 4 minutes, and lost me till the last minute. I am a man who feels that music should be powerful, and consise. Zep had no power problem, but they tend to ramble on a bit too much for me...and then there's that Plant screeching thing. Nope, just not my bag. Glad you all like it though, more power to ya.

If I were to write an album, it would be about 40 minutes long, with about 20-25 songs. If you can't get your point across in a couple of minutes...then your point isn't worth making. Not only that, but with long songs you eclipse the attention span of much of your audience. In my humble opinion, of course.

Now, if you want to see a really good hard rock DVD, check out Motorhead's "Boneshaker" DVD. The only part I didn't really care for was the drum solo.

Now, on a positive note....if Zep's DVDs do well, perhaps the Stones will decide to release some archive stuff on DVD too. If they see that there is money to be made.....
06-02-03 09:14 PM
Mr T I haven't heard the longer, drawn out tracks - but all the others I've downloaded & are pretty fantastic. The DVD really kicks ass. I absolutly love it - everyone should buy this
06-02-03 10:13 PM
Sir Stonesalot >-everyone should buy this.<

Ummmmmm. No thank you.

See above.
06-02-03 10:36 PM
Honky Tonker Sir, maybe you check out The Ramones!
06-03-03 08:20 AM
John Wood Anyone who is a fan of music should watch this dvd. I have never been a huge Zep fan but I did want to check this dvd out. Still have not had a chance to watch it all, but what I have seen I have been blown away! The sound and Zep's playing is outstanding (Page and Bonham wow). Last night I watched Jumping Jack Flash, Satisfaction and Honky Tonk Women from Gimmie Shelter, then put Zep's disc two on. I hate to say it but for sound and musicianship Led Zeppelin.......
06-03-03 08:44 AM
TheSavageYoungXyzzy Well, for sound, sure.

For musicianship? The Stones had that swagger, that sound like they were about to collapse, two-parts-blues-one-part-rock.

Zeppelin is in terms of technical skill a fantastic band. Jimmy Page is quite the guitar player and Robert Plant has a vocal range reaching into where most dogs fear to tread.

But the Stones do only one (two now, and did only one then) song that really stretches into the 'long song' form, and that's "Midnight Rambler". And that's a good solid song, to say nothing of the stage spectacle of Mick Jagger.

I don't want to hear a twenty-five minute song, no matter how avant-garde or supposedly awesome it is, not even with Jimmy Page taking a violin bow to his guitar. I don't want to hear a nineteen-minute long drum solo. The version I heard on the album version of "Moby Dick" was enough for me. The songs just don't go anywhere - that's why I'm not much into Phish and groups like that. Like our resident cynic Sir Stonesalot said, It's four minutes of "Hmmm", twenty minutes of "zzzz" and one minute of relief.

A lot of Zeppelin's shorter numbers and even some of those long monstosities on their studio albums are quite good. But I don't think Zeppelin ever achieved what the Stones did in terms of who they were and where they were going. They were a studio band, more created than formed, and while they made some great tunes, there's often too much pretentious "We are mythic hear us preach" bullshit in the songs and lyrics along with the idea that somehow they were allowed to think they were on the level of Bob Dylan to put them on the same level as the Stones.

They do have some good songs, though. Especially when they don't take themselves that seriously, which is why Houses Of The Holy is their strongest album, although you have to put up with "No Quarter". The song "Houses Of The Holy" is quite good, too, though it wound up on their own version of Tattoo You along with the rather nice little "Boogie With Stu".

-tSYX --- I, I I I I, all those tears I cried...
06-03-03 09:27 AM
Factory Girl I like Led Zep for its bluesy, country vibe-see LZIII. Tangerine, That's the way, Gallows Pole, Immigrant song.

I also love Kasmir and Thank you-is a beauty. And yes, Stairway is a mgnificent song. I also love the trippy experimental vibe of Dazrd & Confused.

LZ fans-check out their BBC Sessions.
06-03-03 11:32 AM
padre So, where have you guys bought this Zep DVD? I saw Amazon offered it for $22.90. Is there a place to find it even cheaper than that?
06-03-03 12:18 PM
Zack I'm psyched to hear this Zeppelin, but there is no way I could ever sit through a 19 minute drum solo.

SS, no Dark Star ever went on for 47 minutes. The definitive version is 23 or so.

XYZZ, in addition to MR, YCAGWYW meandered on past 10 minutes as well in the early 70s.

FG, don't you find Dazed and Confused to be the most anti-female song in rock ("soul of a woman's created below").

Page is like the kid in school who's the smartest or the best and knows it - and makes everybody else want to punch him in the face.
06-03-03 04:39 PM
Riffhard I've caught alot of flack before for saying it,but I'll say it again. Led Zep was/is the most overrated band in the history of rock and roll. I mean don't got me wrong here. They were a very good band,but they just never realy moved me. This whole"Jimmy Page is the greatest gutarist" crap is just that. Crap! Jimmy is renowned for mastery of the studio. Beyond that,please! I have seen Page live with Zep and in the Firm and ofcourse all his excursions with Plant. He was always sloppy. Always! The best I ever saw him play was when he did the tour with the Black Crows. Even then he was not at the same skill level as say Clapton during the Cream years. He wasn't as good as Taylor during his stint with the Stones. He never did for me I guess. The violin bow effect was cool as was the theremin but clearly Zepp was not the great live act the Stones are renowned for. Compare Gimme Shelter to The Song Remains the Same. I know it's apples and oranges but there is no way that anyone can deny that GS is vastly supperior to SRTS musically.

There ya go. Let the flames fly!


Riffhard
06-03-03 06:05 PM
Sir Stonesalot >Sir, maybe you check out The Ramones!<

LOL! Uh, yeah, maybe I'll do that. What album do you recommend? Thanks for the hot tip!

>SS, no Dark Star ever went on for 47 minutes. The definitive version is 23 or so.<

Oh. Sorry. I guess it just SEEMED like 47 minutes. 47 minutes would probably SEEM like 3 days then.

I went to see the Dead way back when...Harrisburg, City Island...the audience was definately more entertaining than the Dead. Until I had to deck some clown for urinating on my girlfriend. And the people around me were all like "Oh, why did you hit that poor guy!?" And I was all, "Because he was PISSING ON MY GIRL!". And they were all, "Oh man, it's only a little urine. It's natural man, quit being so heavy. Stop hassling that guy, brother, he needed to go.". I was all like, "What the fuck is wrong with you people? You don't just piss on someone else's girlfriend. It's not cool." And they were all like, "No man, at a Dead show man, everything is cool man. At a Dead show you are FREEEEEEEEEE!!". So I rolled the guys head into his puddle, took my girlie by the hand, and walked back to the car. On the way she waded out into the river and rinsed her leg off. Hardcore Deadheads are a very odd bunch. And I would hope not all of them think that pissing on another human being is understandable.

Oddly enough, this wasn't the last time that something like that happened to me. Why do people forget that you are supposed to piss in a toilet, and not on a person? Seems pretty simple to me.

06-03-03 06:21 PM
hotlicks You always make me laugh-brill story.
06-03-03 07:24 PM
sammy davis jr. Sir Stonesalot brother, It's probably a good thing he didn't take a dump in your general direction. I agree, deadheads are, or were pigs. Now I guess Phisheads are probably all pigs. I never got the whole "dead scene" either- the funny thing is, Garcia and the rest of the Dead loathed the typical "deadheads".
06-03-03 07:47 PM
Sir Stonesalot Well...I wouldn't say they were ALL pigs, but let's just say, you could smell the crowd way before you could see them.

Pert was not very popular amoungst that particular audience. Nor was Coast. Nor Tide.

06-03-03 08:35 PM
Factory Girl Personal hygiene was not a priority amongst junkies-regardless of music preferences. Sad but true??
06-03-03 11:19 PM
VoodooChileInWOnderl Led Zeppelin is great, not the Stones but great. I'm gonna buy it. For those collectors outhere I have something cool if someone wanna trade. Two videos filmed in Mexico City, one is Robert Plant in 1994 and the other is Page-Plant in 1995, with one of the best versions of Whole Lotta Love I have evere heard.

In fact the Stones have covered Zeppelin, they did "Whole Lotta Love" back in 1982



yes... I reposted this one, but the other thread is "for ladies only"
06-03-03 11:26 PM
gypsy Ha! Voodoo, you are hilarious. I just noticed the moving crotch on Mick. Too funny.
06-04-03 07:51 AM
Factory Girl Voodoo, I love the moving trousers....lol.

"I think I busted a button on my trousers...."...rotfl

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