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Topic: Cobain voted 'greatest rocker'. Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
16th May 2006 11:55 AM
Honky Tonk Man
quote:
Ihavelotsajam wrote:
And In Utero seems to be appreciated by die-hard Nirvana fans. It doesn't have anywhere near the effect Nevermind had on me (and still does), and is mostly self indulgent. Making an album to "chase away" fairweather fans is a cop out, no matter how you slice it. And "songs" like Milk It are pure BS.



I'm bored of Nevermind. Maybe it's because I wasn’t aware of Nirvana at the time that I don't fully appreciate it. Every song on it's a cracker, but too many of the tunes are overplayed. If there were one song that I love on that record and isn’t overplayed, it'd be On A Plain.

I MUCH prefer In Utero. Serve The Servants, Pennyroyal Tea, Rape Me, Dumb and Heat-Shaped Box are as good as anything on it's predecessor
16th May 2006 12:12 PM
Ihavelotsajam
quote:
Honky Tonk Man wrote:


I'm bored of Nevermind. Maybe it's because I wasn’t aware of Nirvana at the time that I don't fully appreciate it. Every song on it's a cracker, but too many of the tunes are overplayed. If there were one song that I love on that record and isn’t overplayed, it'd be On A Plain.

I MUCH prefer In Utero. Serve The Servants, Pennyroyal Tea, Rape Me, Dumb and Heat-Shaped Box are as good as anything on it's predecessor




Pennyroyal Tea and Dumb really are *amazing* songs. I just think it has stuff on it that is clearly put on there for the hell of it (Scentless Apprentice? Come on).

Neverind is beyond overplayed by now, yeah. But I tried to stay away from it at long lengths, so that the effect wouldn't be totally lost, and it worked so far.

Also, I think Bleach is mostly BS but About a Girl is literally one of the prettiest songs ever made.
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]
16th May 2006 12:59 PM
doo doo doo Dude
quote:
JumpingKentFlash wrote:
I prefer the Stones. But Nirvana is in my top 5. He didn't shoot himself to become a martyr. If you say that you never understood him in the first place. Their best album is "In Utero".



Bleach to me is the quintessential Nirvana punk rock album before Butch Vig gave them that big rock sound for Nevermind. Smells Like Teen Spirit is just a reworking of More Than A Feeling by Boston, both of which I find annoying. In Utero has a few good songs but mostly wallows in mediocrity. The live MTV album is vastly overrated although I like the Bowie cover and songs with the Meat Puppets.

I usually have compassion for people suffering from depression and addiction, but in Kurt's case he was such a self-pitying, twisted fuck that he sort of got what he deserved. It's funny that kids hold him in such high esteem cause he really didn't have very much musical output.
16th May 2006 01:16 PM
MrPleasant Those cinematic ruskies were geniuses.



BTW, film isn't a "direct" medium, neither an "open window" to other people's miseries, as it is often mistakenly granted. It is a P.O.V.; it is perfunctionary; it's not raw, real or honest per se. It's manipulation of the highest order.



90% of what passes today as "art" is horrid bullshit crap. And people are idiots.

[Edited by Brian Jones. I killed myself.]
[Edited by MrPleasant]
16th May 2006 02:51 PM
Ihavelotsajam
quote:
doo doo doo Dude wrote:


Smells Like Teen Spirit is just a reworking of More Than A Feeling by Boston,



This keeps being repeated by the 'classic rock' anti-Nirvana people. Apart from maybe the first few notes there is nothing similar between the two at all. More than a Feeling doesn't 'erupt' the way SLTS does either, which pretty much makes the song. And the vocal melody, which also pretty much makes the song, is nowhere near MTAF. And come on, Boston is the lamest band ever, after Kansas.
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]
16th May 2006 03:04 PM
doo doo doo Dude I'm not anti-Nirvana, It's just that I'm always expecting to hear Kurt start singing "It's more than a feeling when I hear that old song they used to play..."
16th May 2006 03:48 PM
Riffhard Fuck Kurt Cobain! He is easily the most overrated fuck in the history of music! Joe Strummer would bitch slap that stupid little fucktard upside the head. Oh,wait a minute. He doesn't have a head does he? No he doesn't. He blew it off leaving a daughter behind. And fuck all this stupid conspiracy shit about him not killing himself. I have seen all the documentries and read all the articles. The fact is that there is much more evidence that he DID kill himself than there is the he did not. He's dead. He's overrated. Fuck him. I laugh out loud at idiots that hold this hack up as some kind of rock and roll legend. He would not have even been a blip on the radar screen had he not come at a time when rock and roll was inundated with cartoonish assholes swiming in Aquanet hair spray and spandex. He got lucky. His lame assed band happened to break at precisely the right time. Had Nirvanna tried to make it in the late 60's or early 70's we would not even be talking about this asshole. Shit even the Doors were a better band than Nirvana!


"No I don't have a gun...click,click...bang!"


The idiot had a gun alright! Just ask his daughter. Fuck him and all his apologists. He was in pain. You don't understand. He had chronic back pain. He had a real sore tummy. He had a tough childhood. Hey guess what? That's a bunch of shit! He quit on life and left those that cared and needed him behind because he was a selfish asshole. That's the cold hard truth and if some are stupid enough not to get it than that's their problem.


Riffy
16th May 2006 03:52 PM
Ihavelotsajam
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
The idiot had a gun alright! Just ask his daughter. Fuck him and all his apologists. He was in pain. You don't understand. He had chronic back pain. He had a real sore tummy. He had a tough childhood. Hey guess what? That's a bunch of shit! He quit on life and left those that cared and needed him behind because he was a selfish asshole. That's the cold hard truth and if some are stupid enough not to get it than that's their problem.

Riffy



Most people are not commenting on whether he was a great or awful human being, they are commenting on his work. Personally, I wouldn't go to either extreme when evaluating him. Nirvana as a band may have something to do with the way Cobain was, but in the end, his personal life shouldn't matter as much, lest we disregard every single musician who happens to have been a shitty parent or whatnot.
That said, Nirvana wouldn't be any greater if he was a saint. And, him offing himself DEFINITELY raised the popularity/legend.
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]
16th May 2006 03:55 PM
speedfreakjive
quote:
Ihavelotsajam wrote:


Most people are not commenting on whether he was a great or awful human being, they are commenting on his work. Personally, I wouldn't go to either extreme when evaluating him. Nirvana as a band may have something to do with the way Cobain was, but in the end, his personal life shouldn't matter as much, lest we disregard every single musician who happens to have been a shitty parent or whatnot.
That said, Nirvana wouldn't be any greater if he was a saint. And, him offing himself DEFINITELY raised the popularity/legend.
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]



top notch post
16th May 2006 04:17 PM
Riffhard
quote:
Ihavelotsajam wrote:


And, him offing himself DEFINITELY raised the popularity/legend.
[Edited by Ihavelotsajam]




On this I fully agree. My problem with Cobain is because he did off himself youngsters today hold him up as some kind of tormented genius. Perhaps he was tormented,but he was no genius. I feel absolutly no sympathy for anybody who kills themselves. Suicide is the ultimate selfish act,and he opted for the easy way out. Fuck him. He's dead. His legacy should be as a guy that happened to hit at the excact right time. However,if anyone thinks he was some kind of brilliant songwriter that had his finger on the pulse of his generation then they are sadly mistaken. At the end of the day Cobain was nothing more than a suicidal prick who wrote a few decent songs. Nothing earth shattering mind you. Just decent songs. Frankly I am sick of hearing anything by Nirvana. I was sick of them before the stupid prick even had his finger on the trigger.



Riffy
16th May 2006 05:16 PM
Saint Sway I love the irony of the whole "grunge" alt-rock scene. It started out as a retort to the whole mainstream music scene of the time. And then, before you could blink your eyes grunge BECAME THE MAINSTREAM with wanna-bee shopping mall grunge/alt-rock ripoffs sprouting up everywhere. It literally happened overnight. Their moment of rebellion lasted a mila-second.

thankfully its all been flushed down the toilet since then
17th May 2006 02:59 AM
JumpingKentFlash Kurt WAS a tormented genius and their best song (Well, one of them) is Milk It. Nuff said.
17th May 2006 03:38 AM
FotiniD
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Had Nirvanna tried to make it in the late 60's or early 70's we would not even be talking about this asshole. Shit even the Doors were a better band than Nirvana!




Now Riffy, you just sound like my dad Everytime I try to show him some new piece of music that I like, the usual line is this: "had these guys tried to make it in the 70's, they wouldn't even be support acts". And neither my dad nor you are so old to start bashing the newer generations already, for Christ's sakes! I find the reactions similar to those people older than 30 years old had when the Stones first came out. Just because something is new and different, doesn't mean that it's not worth.

Of course it's all a matter of personal taste and preferences, certainly, and I do respect you not liking Nirvana, but hey - it's one thing saying "I don't like their music" and another thing saying "their music is worthless". E.g. I may hate hip hop or pop music or whatever, but there's no denying there are people making great records out there in those genres. (Well, very few, but anyway )

I do believe Nirvana were very important and I do believe future generations will come to appreciate that even more - and even if Kurt had lived, and the band had split up, they'd still be as important in my book. And considering the 70's-90's comparison, as a matter of fact I think Cobain would have enjoyed Morisson status, had he lived then. It's just that as years went by, I think we've all become more cynical and less tolerant, and that's why people like Cobain may appear cowardish or quitters.

I do agree with you that comitting suicide is a coward's act. But even if he did comitt suicide, we're not talking about his personal life, as stated, we're talking about his music.

Regarding the conspiracy theories, I've read all the articles and books and watched all the documentaries too and what can I say Riffy, I do find LOTS of fishy things in there. Facts don't lie. Triple lethal doses of heroin FIRST and THEN shooting yourself in the head, don't quite add up, do they? Not to mention the missing fingerprints. To me there's more evidence towards homicide than suicide.
17th May 2006 03:43 AM
speedfreakjive
quote:
JumpingKentFlash wrote:
Kurt WAS a tormented genius and their best song (Well, one of them) is Milk It. Nuff said.



no, Spank Thru and About A Girl
17th May 2006 07:17 AM
corgi37 He is in Hell right now, wearing a floral dress and waiting for his Hell Hubby Joe Strummer to come home and roger him good.

And, both are eagerly awaiting the arrival of Pete Doherty.

There. Did i offend enough people?
17th May 2006 10:46 AM
Ihavelotsajam
quote:
speedfreakjive wrote:


no, Spank Thru and About A Girl



No, Mexican Seafood is. We might as well go all out.

If Milk It has an important 'point' for some fans, then he should have made more of an effort to make it a proper song. But a lot of Nirvana stuff is "inaccessible" for the sake of being inaccessible.
17th May 2006 12:17 PM
Dan
quote:
FotiniD wrote:

Regarding the conspiracy theories, I've read all the articles and books and watched all the documentaries too and what can I say Riffy, I do find LOTS of fishy things in there. Facts don't lie. Triple lethal doses of heroin FIRST and THEN shooting yourself in the head, don't quite add up, do they? Not to mention the missing fingerprints. To me there's more evidence towards homicide than suicide.



If I were intent on putting the lights out forever with no chance of a successful intervention, I would combine at least 2 tried and true methods. Not that I have ever thought about such a thing. Also, I have met El Duce, there is no way I would entrust that particular guy with the serious business of a "hit" or even mention such a thing if I were hell bent on going through with it.
18th May 2006 06:59 AM
speedfreakjive forgot about All Apologies, Unplugged, their best song ever.
18th May 2006 07:28 AM
FotiniD
quote:
Dan wrote:


If I were intent on putting the lights out forever with no chance of a successful intervention, I would combine at least 2 tried and true methods. Not that I have ever thought about such a thing. Also, I have met El Duce, there is no way I would entrust that particular guy with the serious business of a "hit" or even mention such a thing if I were hell bent on going through with it.



Sure thing, but would you be able to actually shoot the gun once you had so much heroin in your system? Doubtful... It would have done the job on the spot - dead with the needle still in.

About El Duce, I do doubt his role in all of this as well, but you have to admit his death was a little too much of a coincidence when it happened.
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