| April 26th, 2005 09:26 AM |
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| winter |
From Rollingstone.com -
Thought some of you might find this interesting if not irritating -
peace out hommies,
At precisely 11 a.m. on Saturday, April 9th, Julie Grayauskie, a social worker in Plymouth Meeting, Pennsylvania, called Ticketmaster on two phones and logged on to ticketmaster.com on her computer. She had seen Bruce Springsteen seventeen times on the Rising tour and desperately wanted a ticket to his May 19th show at the Continental Airlines Arena in East Rutherford, New Jersey. Forty-five minutes later, she gave up. "You get online right away, it tells you your wait time is less than a minute and it pops up right away: 'No tickets available,'" she says. "It sucks. I don't know how to put it -- I'm so angry."
Within minutes, fans from New Jersey to Colorado to Minnesota were echoing Grayauskie's outrage on Springsteen message boards. "Scalpers rot!" declared one. "I'm sick and tired of being penalized for not being a well-connected insider," said another. For hot tours like Springsteen, U2 and Nine Inch Nails -- and, soon, Paul McCartney and the Rolling Stones -- professional ticket brokers use a combination of manpower and technology to swoop in and commandeer hundreds of seats at a time. As of Monday afternoon, April 11th, ticketsnow.com was selling 292 seats to Springsteen's New Jersey show -- almost nine percent of the 3,300 seats that went on sale to the public -- with some going for as much as $2,565 apiece.
Ticket scalping has been frustrating artists and fans for decades, and in the age of eBay, it's possible for anybody to buy and sell high-demand tickets for outrageous profits. But the bigger problem is that major ticket brokers have become far more nimble and sophisticated -- often using expensive software that enables them to get around ticketmaster.com's security and buy up large blocks of tickets before fans have the chance. "It's one of the worst aspects of capitalism," says Peter Harvey, attorney general of New Jersey, where selling tickets for fifty percent above face value is illegal. The state recently opened a $5 million anti-Internet-fraud crime lab with the FBI, and Harvey promises to use it to prosecute online scalpers.
Check out these prices: Nine Inch Nails on April 27th at the Warfield Theater in San Francisco, with a face value of $35.50, now up to $407 at ticketliquidator.com; Audioslave on April 30th at the Roseland Ballroom in New York, originally $35, $177 at stubhub.com; and U2, whose tickets hit $1,500 apiece last month on eBay until the band recently lowered demand by adding more shows.
"It's hard," says Peter Paterno, attorney for Metallica, Pearl Jam and others. "You look at Metallica and Pearl Jam and Rancid -- they try to keep their ticket price really fair, but at the end of the day that just means scalpers line up and resell them. The ticket brokers are not stupid. They've gotten very efficient at what they do."
How do they do it? Just as brokers used to hire people to stand in line overnight at Tower Records to buy tickets for hot shows, now they hire dozens of people to log on to ticketmaster.com at the moment hot tickets go on sale. Some also incorporate more complicated high-tech techniques, like using computer "bots" to override ticketmaster.com's security by automatically plugging in the randomly selected "secret word" repeatedly and at high speeds. Hackers reportedly sell the software for $20,000 and say it allows a single broker to buy hundreds of tickets in minutes.
All this is technically legal in most of the U.S. "As long as there's supply and demand, there's going to be ticket brokering," says Gary Adler, general counsel for the National Association of Ticket Brokers in Washington, D.C. "And you'd much rather have it be done by legitimate businessmen than out of the trunk of somebody's car."
Some big-name artists are fighting back against the scalpers. For the best seats on Springsteen's Devils and Dust tour, promoters stipulated that buyers had to show up personally at Will Call in order to claim most tickets. Other artists, including Pearl Jam and Dave Matthews Band, allow fan-club members first shot at tickets. But that can backfire: Earlier this year, U2 tried to limit pre-sale tickets to members of its fan club, but scalpers simply joined the fan club to get some of the first seats.
Many artists have even contemplated raising ticket prices for top seats to compete with scalpers. "But then you appear to take advantage of your fans, and you don't want to," says Jim Guerinot, manager of Nine Inch Nails, No Doubt and others. "It's a can't-win situation."
STEVE KNOPPER
(Posted Apr 25, 2005)
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| April 26th, 2005 09:45 AM |
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| Gazza |
Jesus.
With the amount of exorbitant fees that TM use to rip off ticket buyers under the guise of "service (!) charges" I still think they should do more to combat this problem.
Personally, I've yet to be convinced that they care and same applies to many of the bands |
| April 26th, 2005 09:47 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
This is being perpetrated by Organized Crime. There's no beating it. It's like trying to stop the flow of illegal drugs. |
| April 26th, 2005 10:49 AM |
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| Gazza |
it would help if sites like e-bay actually banned the auction of concert tickets.
They do that for tickets for football matches in the UK as they were ordered to do so for security reasons as it could mean trouble between rival fans.
Obviously theres no security risk for something like a concert ticket but it shows that in principle something CAN be done if the people selling the tickets in the first place took some action to try and prevent it |
| April 26th, 2005 11:16 AM |
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| Zeeta |
Absolutely, some tickets for Oasis's tour are going for £300 for a pair on ebay! I got mine for £35 quid for the same show! It's fuckin ridiculous! |
| April 26th, 2005 11:37 AM |
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| Joey |
quote:
Zeeta wrote:
Absolutely, some tickets for Oasis's tour are going for £300 for a pair on ebay!
Now THAT is cause for concern -- Outrageous !!!!!! |
| April 26th, 2005 01:52 PM |
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| Dan |
Lets see, quite recently in the same market, Springsteen sold about 700,000 tickets. Now only 3,000 are available. She should be blaming Springsteen for not playing a big enough place to meet demand. Thats where the problem is. |
| April 26th, 2005 05:39 PM |
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| GerryS |
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. This isn't just a recent problem. Back in 69 my friend and I camped outside Madison Square Garden overnight for tickets to see the Stones. There were 16 of us out there that night. Next morning we were in front of the line. You were allowed 8 tickets each if memory serves. I was offered money by one idiot to buy extra tickets for him since we only wanted 2. I refused. Well, once we got our tickets, we headed for a map showing us where we were going to be seated. Now 16 people, you figure right down front. Oh no, no. We were clear to hell and gone at the other end of the Garden (up on the side) which held like 20,000 people. Before the concert we took a trip down to the front of the stage and while doing so, checked out exactly WHO had those front main floor seats. The first few rows were celebrities(Morrison, Hendrix etc) who were obviously going to have access to the Stones pre and post concert. The rest were reporters, photogs, etc. from every legit and underground newspaper in the City and beyond. They were only supposed to be allowed 2 tickets..one for a reporter, one for a photog. They brought everyone on their staff and off it.! To say we were disgusted would be putting it mildly! It took me over 30 years to get main floor tickets (7th row) and that's only because I knew the tickets were on sale from the old Stonesworld board BEFORE the idiot local rock station sponsoring it did! I even got the information to one of the old posters there who lived in Florida and she and her boyfriend got 10th row. |
| April 26th, 2005 06:13 PM |
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| Saint Sway |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
Jesus.
With the amount of exorbitant fees that TM use to rip off ticket buyers under the guise of "service (!) charges" I still think they should do more to combat this problem.
Personally, I've yet to be convinced that they care and same applies to many of the bands
well put Gazza.
TM is a monopoly and there tix are being bought - so they don't care who's on the other end buying them. TM makes the same amount of $ from scalpers & fans - so they arent going to give a shit.
the ONLY way this is going to change is if a BAND STEPS UP and changes the rules. A big band like the Springsteen or the Stones have the POWER AND ABILITY to sell tix directly to fans via strictly regulated and controlled fan clubs.
its up to the bands to step up and take care of their fans.
heres the benefit to them:
1. Scalper tix are too expensive. Only the uber rich fan can afford them. Typically thats a Wall Street type. Trust me, no band got into this to have stock brokers lining the front rows staring blankly at them. Let the rabid fan in those seats - it makes for a much better show. The bands know that.
2. Because slalper tix are so high - $ that a fan would spend on that one ticket could be spent on 3 tix. The band doesnt see any of the $ that the scalpers get, so it benefits the bands to try and eliminate the scalper so that a big fan can afford to purchase tix to more shows. This is a big win for the band and the fans. |
| April 26th, 2005 09:02 PM |
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| Happy Motherfucker!! |
I think that there has to be a system put in place that allows only those who actually purchased the tickets to be allowed inside. Maybe like the wristbands that The Stones did on the theater show, but on a larger scale. That way you have to actually show up and present your receit at the gate to the parking lot, then they give you the ticket. I don't know but this fucking maddness has to be stopped! |
| April 26th, 2005 09:13 PM |
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| Gazza |
quote:
Dan wrote:
Lets see, quite recently in the same market, Springsteen sold about 700,000 tickets. Now only 3,000 are available. She should be blaming Springsteen for not playing a big enough place to meet demand. Thats where the problem is.
3,000? For 15-20 theatre shows? I assume thats a typo on your part, Dan!
Its not up to the artist to simply play the biggest shows possible just to meet the demand of everyone who wants to see them and ruin the whole purpose and feel of the gig as a result.
An solo acoustic show in a place the size of Giants Stadium? I dont think so!
In Springsteen's case, part of the problem is that there isnt an official fan club as such. Although some artists have got round that by organising allocations through fan magazines (Dylan has this arrangement when he tours the UK as there isnt a fan club and the pre-sale on his free official site is US only). Bruce's management have taken steps on previous tours to beat scalpers by making the first 15 rows or so will-call only.
I cant see how any major act CANT organise a system like this for the best seats, as THOSE are the tickets that the scalpers and brokers are mostly interested in. If it costs a little extra to allow for any admin costs thats fair enough...it certainly beats the alternative of seeing the tickets being offered on e-bay or broker sites for ten times face value and despairing for the chances of fellow fans in getting them in normal circumstances.
Basically, organisations like TM dont give a flying fuck who buys their tickets as, as Saint Sway said above, they're getting their money anyway. Too many tickets are simply being siphoned off to brokers, package companies or insiders closely or even loosely connected with the promoters and in many cases the bands. The fans are simply at the very end of the food chain.
[Edited by Gazza] |
| April 27th, 2005 02:33 PM |
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| gimmekeef |
I just wish the f'in government would go after Ticketbastard the same way they did with Bill Gates monopoly.I'd love to know where the hidden money from these brokers is going...and you just know there is hidden money involved! |
| April 27th, 2005 03:17 PM |
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| Dan |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
I just wish the f'in government would go after Ticketbastard the same way they did with Bill Gates monopoly.I'd love to know where the hidden money from these brokers is going...and you just know there is hidden money involved!
You *really* want the government to regulate ticket sales? I think its a totally inappropriate use of public resources. Yeah maybe we should do away with ticketmaster all together and roll the whole operation right into either the state DMV's or perhaps the TSA. |
| April 27th, 2005 03:27 PM |
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| Dan |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
3,000? For 15-20 theatre shows? I assume thats a typo on your part, Dan!
Springsteen recently did 10 nights at Giants Stadium followed by 3 nights at Shea Stadium. Now its one night in an arena scaled down to a theatre configuration.
quote:
Its not up to the artist to simply play the biggest shows possible just to meet the demand of everyone who wants to see them and ruin the whole purpose and feel of the gig as a result.
Of course not, but still the lady who got shut out is complaining in the wrong direction. She is shut out because Springsteen isnt playing a venue with a seat reserved for whoever wants to go. Limiting sales to only a few thousand people when tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people who want to attend will make the ticket an absolute hot item no matter who is holding on to them. If I had an extra ticket because I kinda like Springsteen, but then STones tour is announced before the show, I would sell that ticket for the absolute top dollar I could sell it for in order to insure I had enough cash to hit the ones I absolutely want to go to.
quote:
An solo acoustic show in a place the size of Giants Stadium? I dont think so!
Yeah probably not. Then I cant get excited about a solo acoustic gig by anyone in a place any bigger than a record store.
quote:
In Springsteen's case, part of the problem is that there isnt an official fan club as such. Although some artists have got round that by organising allocations through fan magazines (Dylan has this arrangement when he tours the UK as there isnt a fan club and the pre-sale on his free official site is US only). Bruce's management have taken steps on previous tours to beat scalpers by making the first 15 rows or so will-call only.
The entire Pantages Theatre is will call only. And fan clubs dont exist to provide the real fans with a better shot at seats so much as to funnel more cash into the artists' pockets.
quote:
I cant see how any major act CANT organise a system like this for the best seats, as THOSE are the tickets that the scalpers and brokers are mostly interested in. If it costs a little extra to allow for any admin costs thats fair enough...it certainly beats the alternative of seeing the tickets being offered on e-bay or broker sites for ten times face value and despairing for the chances of fellow fans in getting them in normal circumstances.
Believe it or not, a lot of broker/scalper tickets come from people who thought they were real fans until they realized how much the tickets they had are worth. A friend of mine scored front row pair for the Stones San Diego show and he ultimately traded it to a broker for seats somewhere in the first 10 rows for Dodger Stadium and cash.
quote:
Basically, organisations like TM dont give a flying fuck who buys their tickets as, as Saint Sway said above, they're getting their money anyway. Too many tickets are simply being siphoned off to brokers, package companies or insiders closely or even loosely connected with the promoters and in many cases the bands. The fans are simply at the very end of the food chain.
[Edited by Gazza]
Of course. The whole organization exists for the sole reason of making money. In most cases, thats the whole reason the band is still performing.
I got into plenty of sold out shows for free or got decent seats because I am loosely connected with insiders and people affiliated with the bands. Can't really say thats a bad deal either if you are lucky enough to know somebody. |
| April 27th, 2005 04:59 PM |
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| gimmekeef |
Dan, believe me I'm no fan of the gov't..but they seem intent on regulating everything then do something that might help me get a cheaper ticket!...lol |
| April 27th, 2005 05:46 PM |
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| Dan |
quote:
gimmekeef wrote:
Dan, believe me I'm no fan of the gov't..but they seem intent on regulating everything then do something that might help me get a cheaper ticket!...lol
Yeah but the tax cost of administering the regulation may offset any savings. Anyone remember the bill Congress passed in 1992 that was supposed to make cable TV rates go down?
What about evenly distributed tickets? Since you just scored a ticket for night 1 at MSG you are prohibited frm attending night 2 etc? |
| April 27th, 2005 07:22 PM |
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| gimmekeef |
Or better still...you must have at least 1000 posts here to attend a show! |
| April 27th, 2005 08:00 PM |
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| Gazza |
you'd better fuckin' get busy then,pal! |
| April 28th, 2005 09:03 AM |
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| gimmekeef |
Alrighty then......lol |
| April 29th, 2005 12:54 AM |
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| texile |
don't big companies buy up alot these tickets for employees? i know they do it at sports events.......
i stood in line for 3 hours last saturday for macca with my 14 yr old neice - sold out in 3 fucking minutes................how can that happen?
i miss the days when you stood in line all night..- at least you had a fair shot. |
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