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Topic: Jeff Tweedy: Stones a "circus act" Return to archive Page: 1 2 3
25th April 2007 11:48 AM
Nellcote What Muddy would do, is what the Stones are doing, what they want to do. They are what they are.
They've built a career of wanting each tour larger than the other, each stage more outrageous than the last.
Opinions from other rock acts are what they are, opinions.
Sometimes what Mother always said is best, keep it to yourself.
25th April 2007 11:48 AM
Mel Belli
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:


actually, at the start they thumbed their noses at anything that was over the top show bizzy.

in the beginning Brian wrote angry letters to the magazines about how they were a purist blues band... they refused to stand on the revolving bandstand carousel (Top of Pops?) and wave with the other pop acts... they agreed to appear on a TV show only if they would put Howlin Wolf on the show with them.... of course this attitude would eventually begin to erode, but in the beginning they were very much anti-establishment and anti show biz.

back in the beginning they believed in the music over the glitter and were loyal to their roots



With the exception of Brian, the blues purism lasted for about five minutes. And the nose-thumbing was calculated in part by Oldham; being "anti-showbiz" is to pay a backhanded tribute to showbiz.
25th April 2007 11:58 AM
Saint Sway
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:

being "anti-showbiz" is to pay a backhanded tribute to showbiz.



no its not
25th April 2007 12:01 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:


no its not



The second you demand to be paid for your hobby, you have committed showbiz.
25th April 2007 12:06 PM
Saint Sway
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


The second you demand to be paid for your hobby, you have committed showbiz.



so that fifty bucks I earned at the sperm bank now makes me an entertainer?
25th April 2007 12:08 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:


so that fifty bucks I earned at the sperm bank now makes me an entertainer?



Ah, I'd call that a biological need, not a hobby
25th April 2007 12:17 PM
Saint Sway
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


Ah, I'd call that a biological need, not a hobby



true, but the act itself is very much a hobby

hey now - I'M IN SHOWBIZ BABY!

25th April 2007 12:18 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:


true, but the act itself is very much a hobby

hey now - I'M IN SHOWBIZ BABY!




Well, come to think of it, a lot of people pay to see some pretty weird stuff these days...
25th April 2007 12:51 PM
Gazza
quote:
Mel Belli wrote:


If it has to be called a "circus act," fine. But the Stones have been about showbiz from Day One


No they havent. They were if anything closer to being the antithesis of showbiz from day one. Starting your career playing unfashionable (and at the time commercially unfriendly) blues covers, being the first band to refuse to wear matching uniforms, their rebellious image etc was hardly a sign of an act who was tailoring itself to 'showbiz'.

Dont get me wrong,I'm not screaming 'sell out' just because a band makes a shitload of cash and plays to lots of people - nothing wrong with that at all - but when the commercial and marketing side has more emphasis put on it than the musical one, then its a huge step backwards artistically in my book.
25th April 2007 12:54 PM
Gazza
quote:
LadyJane wrote:


I honestly am not familiar with this person.
I don't have a lot of time for music and, quite frankly, I enjoy listening to the Stones most of the time.

Kudos to those of you with such diverse tastes.
I'm happy with my Stones and not much else.
Call me the female JB.

LJ.



What - youre not familiar with the concept of your favourite band putting their music at the forefront of their reason for continuing to exist?

Its got nothing to do with what other artists do and - unlike me - JB thinks the Stones have been shit for the last 25 years!

But hey, as long as they shift thousands of those dopey Hallowe'en masks and bobble head dolls, everything's OK
[Edited by Gazza]
25th April 2007 01:22 PM
LadyJane
quote:
Gazza wrote:


What - youre not familiar with the concept of your favourite band putting their music at the forefront of their reason for continuing to exist?

Its got nothing to do with what other artists do and - unlike me - JB thinks the Stones have been shit for the last 25 years!

But hey, as long as they shift thousands of those dopey Hallowe'en masks and bobble head dolls, everything's OK
[Edited by Gazza]



At this point, I just hope I get to see my band again.
Barnum and Bailey and all.

It simply doesn't matter to me.

LJ.
25th April 2007 01:25 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
Gazza wrote:


their rebellious image etc was hardly a sign of an act who was tailoring itself to 'showbiz'.




Saint Sway and I just went round and around on this. ... I argued that their "rebellious image" was, in fact, very much an act of showbiz.

Generally, I think this whole idea of business and artistic integrity existing in two separate spheres is itself just a cultural construct -- probably one that goes back to the British and German romantics, and anyone else who's considered himself anti-bourgeois over the last 300 hundred years.
25th April 2007 01:36 PM
Bitch
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:


so that fifty bucks I earned at the sperm bank now makes me an entertainer?



No, it makes you a fool! You didnt actually give yourself up for $50 did ya??? Thats pure madness, you could end up fathering a child to the bearded lady, or the 2 headed monster that couldnt get laid, so you could be fathering children of the circus act! Life is a fvcking circus anyway, so who cares if The Stones are compared to a circus act!!
25th April 2007 01:38 PM
PartyDoll MEG
quote:
Nellcote wrote:
What Muddy would do, is what the Stones are doing, what they want to do. They are what they are.
They've built a career of wanting each tour larger than the other, each stage more outrageous than the last.


Thus the "show biz"..the Circus, if that is what you want to call it. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you, as an artist, can live with the "legend" you create. Obviously, the "Cohl Dog and Pony Show" is no problem for OUR favorite rock band.
25th April 2007 01:41 PM
Saint Sway
quote:
Bitch wrote:


No, it makes you a fool! You didnt actually give yourself up for $50 did ya??? Thats pure madness, you could end up fathering a child to the bearded lady, or the 2 headed monster that couldnt get laid, so you could be fathering children of the circus act! Life is a fvcking circus anyway, so who cares if The Stones are compared to a circus act!!



just a joke (you dont believe everything you read here, do you?)


though, I'll still probably wind up fathering a child to the bearded lady. Bearded ladies need love too ya know
25th April 2007 01:44 PM
twicks1 It's also pretty impolite of Jeff to speak badly about a band whose sound he made his bones pretty much aping entirely.

"Being There," the disc that put Wilco on the map,is a direct lift of "Exile"-era Stones.
25th April 2007 01:50 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
twicks1 wrote:
It's also pretty impolite of Jeff to speak badly about a band whose sound he made his bones pretty much aping entirely.

"Being There," the disc that put Wilco on the map,is a direct lift of "Exile"-era Stones.



I don't know about all that. Even during the "Being There" era, Wilco was influenced by a number of bands besides the Stones. And even if you owe your sound to another band doesn't mean you can't ever say anything critical about that band.

The reason Tweedy's comment struck me is not because he dissed "my band"; I saw it as another example of Tweedy buying into an "indie" mythology that critics love to project onto Wilco. I think it's crap, and I'm tired of hearing about how Wilco was wronged by Warner Bros.
25th April 2007 02:02 PM
twicks1 That's true, Mel. But he could be a little kinder to a band he's so heavily indebted to.

That said, I watched Tweedy's new solo DVD and there's a scene of him on his tour bus watching the Stones Superbowl performance. He leans over and cranks up the volume.
25th April 2007 02:05 PM
Mel Belli
quote:
twicks1 wrote:
That's true, Mel. But he could be a little kinder to a band he's so heavily indebted to.

That said, I watched Tweedy's new solo DVD and there's a scene of him on his tour bus watching the Stones Superbowl performance. He leans over and cranks up the volume.



Oh, yeah?

Reminds me I need to buy that.
25th April 2007 02:06 PM
Nellcote Meg wrote: "Thus the "show biz"..the Circus, if that is what you want to call it. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you, as an artist, can live with the "legend" you create. Obviously, the "Cohl Dog and Pony Show" is no problem for OUR favorite rock band."

I might think once you've had that aura of showbiz, for as long as The Stones have embraced it, it does not bother you, for you become immune to what others may say or think.
In Keith's case, only the lack of Orange Crush & Stoli seems to be a bother. After all, all except Charlie have multiple familes to maintain a lifestyle for, so, what better way to afford that cozy little Mustique retreat? Cohl is the best thing which has happened to the Stones since Bill Graham, who still would be employed by them, had Cohl not come along, or he not have passed away. Even Peter Rudge, tour manager back in '72, fed the fire which was the STP, gawd, I recall reading (and probably have the clipping? of the article in the Wall Street Journal, back in the day, about the '72 tour. God, I'm as old as dirt!
25th April 2007 02:12 PM
Sir Stonesalot How is it that people "don't have time" for music?

How does music take up time? I mean, other than the 10 seconds it takes to pick something to stick in the CD player and turn it on...or the 10 seconds it takes to pick and play something on your iPod...how is listening to music time consuming?

I don't have any more free time than anyone else...in fact, with the crazy number of hours that I've been working, I probably have less free time than most. But I always manage to hear new stuff, and explore the music of the bands that interest me. If I'm doing yard work or household chores, I turn on the stereo/iPod. When I'm out doing errands in the car, I turn on the stereo/iPod.

I get shit done AND listen to lots of music.

I don't think it's really an issue of time at all. It's more an issue of will. If you don't have the will to turn on the stereo...you won't do it. If you don't have the will to go to your local cool non-chain independent CD store, or hit the internet, to buy some music....you won't do it. Time has nothing to do with it...time is just an nice sounding excuse. If you have the will, there is ALWAYS time.
25th April 2007 02:20 PM
Gazza
quote:
LadyJane wrote:


At this point, I just hope I get to see my band again.
Barnum and Bailey and all.

It simply doesn't matter to me.

LJ.




Six shows this summer and seeing 13 shows in 8 countries this tour would suggest I'm not exclusively preoccupied with it either, in fairness!

However, its about more than just going to a concert and having a good time. It's dumbing down their work to dismiss it as just entertainment. I think they deserve to be remembered for more than that.

Enjoying oneself at shows doesnt mean I dont think they could put the music a bit more at the forefront like they did up to, oh, even as late as 1998 or so.
25th April 2007 02:35 PM
PartyDoll MEG
quote:
Nellcote wrote:
Cohl is the best thing which has happened to the Stones since Bill Graham, who still would be employed by them, had Cohl not come along, or he not have passed away. Even Peter Rudge, tour manager back in '72, fed the fire which was the STP, gawd, I recall reading (and probably have the clipping? of the article in the Wall Street Journal, back in the day, about the '72 tour. God, I'm as old as dirt!


Oh please, Nelly!!!...I am a gentle person by nature. I am gonna assume you are either the "master at sarcasm" or trying to get me to argue with you


25th April 2007 02:36 PM
LadyJane
quote:
Gazza wrote:


Six shows this summer and seeing 13 shows in 8 countries this tour would suggest I'm not exclusively preoccupied with it either, in fairness!

However, its about more than just going to a concert and having a good time. It's dumbing down their work to dismiss it as just entertainment. I think they deserve to be remembered for more than that.

Enjoying oneself at shows doesnt mean I dont think they could put the music a bit more at the forefront like they did up to, oh, even as late as 1998 or so.



Gazza, I'm NOT arguing with you.
You need not justify anything to me.

I just don't sweat it anymore.
They aren't gonna change.
Not at this stage of the game.


LJ.

25th April 2007 03:00 PM
Nellcote Meg wrote:

Oh please, Nelly!!!...I am a gentle person by nature. I am gonna assume you are either the "master at sarcasm" or trying to get me to argue with you


Thanks for trying to convince me I'm not as old as dirt!
I'm all into peace, not argument.
I'm just saying that it is my opinion the Stones don't care that the fan which makes up the majority age who enjoys them, who would rather see them conduct their affairs differently, who may not like how they tour professionally now, or that the ticket system they use is the worst, or, that the tounge logo has become a chi-chi logo in the music set. One person in that band has in his head that this type of event will bring in the best bling for the four of them, and until the well runs dry, it will continue that way.
[Edited by Nellcote]
25th April 2007 03:10 PM
PartyDoll MEG
quote:
Nellcote wrote:



Thanks for trying to convince me I'm not as old as dirt!
I'm all into peace, not argument.
I'm just saying that it is my opinion the Stones don't care that the fan which makes up the majority age who enjoys them, who would rather see them conduct their affairs differently, who may not like how they tour professionally now, or that the ticket system they use is the worst, or, that the tounge logo has become a chi-chi logo in the music set. One person in that band has in his head that this type of event will bring in the best bling for the four of them, and until the well runs dry, it will continue that way.
[Edited by Nellcote]


Oh you aren't old as dirt, Nelly...Cause then I would be right up there with you

As I thought..Great minds thinking in the same sarcastic vein..

And despite the cogwheels in "Cohl Dog and Pony Show", both "old farts" are more than willing to spend their hard earned cash to see as many "tent shows" as possible. Oh and add Gazza to the mix as well
25th April 2007 03:14 PM
LadyJane Add me to the list as well.

LJ
Older than dirt
25th April 2007 03:18 PM
_Boomy_
quote:
PartyDoll MEG wrote:
Oh please, Nelly!!!...I am a gentle person by nature. I am gonna assume you are either the "master at sarcasm" or trying to get me to argue with you






25th April 2007 03:20 PM
PartyDoll MEG Ah. Bambi....

Thanks..

those were the ugliest hooters I ever did see
25th April 2007 03:44 PM
Nellcote Those hooters were 125% Industrial Strength Brunswick Bowling Ball horror. That woman must walk on all fours...
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