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| SirMuddy |
So great to read you all...
you remind me great memories....
Remember the girls on the hot wax cover?
Remember Blondie on one of those cover?
What a great pix!
The Stones always been second's best...
Best in my heart...
we are more selective people 
And they still alive...
Legend take care of dead buddies
Fuck Legend
and Fuck the Rock
I wanna Roll
I wanna Rolling Stones!
BTW: did someone have Waiting on a friend and Ruby Tuesday Version 2003? I can trade  Just tell me what you want! |
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| steel driving hammer |
LOL...
Stones, 3 times as many shows maybe more...
Stones, 3 times as many unrealesed songs maybe more...
Stones, 3 times as many bootlegs than Zep. |
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| Strange_Stray_Cat |
Question should be: "Why do I have so little money"...;-)! |
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| vampire |
quote:
Strange_Stray_Cat wrote:
Question should be: "Why do I have so little money"...;-)!
Well, you�re not alone |
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| steel driving hammer |
Sheesh, IORR has over 2000 Stones Bootlegs listed.
Show me where Zep has even 1/4 as much. Please, I'm begging ya. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
No Tony...not all of those are bootlegs...yet. Did you not read Fang's second post?
A big part of what is listed at IORR are only aud recordings that are in circulation...they are not considered bootlegs because they have not been released for sale. Do you understand that? If it isn't available for sale, it doesn't count. That's not to say it isn't available for trade...but that is an entirely different thing all together. This discussion is about silver discs, factory pressed CDs...not CDRs that you trade for.
Can't make it any plainer than that. |
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| steel driving hammer |
[quote]Sir Stonesalot wrote:
This discussion is about silver discs, factory pressed CDs...not CDRs that you trade for.
Exactly!
The topic of discussion was "Why Stones have so many boots?
Not, "Why the Stones have so many factory pressings"
The definition of a bootleg is making YOUR OWN recording of a concert no?
If so, the Stones have 3 or more times as much Bootlegs than Zep and the fucking Beatles, COMBINED.
I can't make it any plainer than that either.
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| Cardinal Fang |
quote:
steel driving hammer wrote:
Sheesh, IORR has over 2000 Stones Bootlegs listed.
Show me where Zep has even 1/4 as much. Please, I'm begging ya.
Tony,
I'm going to say this r e a l s l o w. You are an idiot.
YOU JUST DON'T FUCKING GET IT DO YOU ?
OK, because you OBVIOUSLY DO NOT COMPREHEND what all the REST OF US in this thread have already said, I am going to include a web address of Led Zeppelin's that has a listing of
2500 Led Zeppelin Bootlegs.
Since I know you are sort of slow Tony, I will say this again. Twenty Five Hundred Led Zeppelin Bootlegs.
Trust me, I know for a fact that the current total of Zep bootlegs is actually more like 3500 but I am doing this so you will SHUT UP ABOUT THIS ALREADY.
Here is that website:
http://www.inthelight.co.nz/ledzep/bootleg.htm
Now Tony I don't want you to get the wrong idea about how I feel about you OK ? The main problem that I have ALWAYS had with you is two fold: First you have a habit of talking about stuff that you know NOTHING ABOUT (I can give you a list if you need one) and Secondly you never seem to know when to SHUT UP about it. I asked you not to carry on with your drunk jack ass routine on this....BUT NOOOOO!!! You just keep it going. Do you even realize Tony that in the process of doing this you always tend to make yourself look really......(fill in your own word) Do you ? I mean you couldn't just ZIP IT and learn something about this subject from T & A, Nasty, jb, SS, and myself?
Reread my very FIRST post about Hotwacks listing the top 5 bootleged groups of all time. If you really truly knew anything about the history of bootlegs, you would know that Hotwacks has been for OVER 20 YEARS, the BIBLE of ALL Bootlegs. (all bootlegs, not just Stones) In fact the post on the very top of this page by SirMuddy is making reference to the OLD Hotwacks Quartly magazines. They used to have babes on the cover. (and YES SirMuddy, I still have all of my issues including the one with Debbie Harry on the cover) Now Hotwacks puts out "Encyclopedia's". They stopped a few years ago with Volume 15 because the book was like 4 inches thick. Now they put out a yearly "supplimental". They are not cheap, they run about 25 bucks for Volume 15 and I think the sup's are about 20 a year but they are WORTH EVERY PENNY if you are serious about collecting bootlegs.
Let me dumb it down for you Tony. Are you familiar with "Billboard" magazine ? They are the bible on American Record Charts. If they say so and so has the most #1 hits of all time, they KNOW what the fuck they are talking about. That's WHAT Billboard magzine does. (Now keep up here Tony) Hotwacks is the equivalent for bootlegs. They are the bootleg bible. If they say this is the top 5 list of most bootlegged artists of all time, they KNOW what the fuck they are talking about. That's WHAT Hotwacks does.
We are DONE with this Tony. I don't want to hear anymore stupid shit like 3 times as many concerts because there is a flaw with your logic on that part too. More than one third of the Stones shows that they have done were done before the 1969 tour and prior to the 1969 tour there just aren't that many complete gigs on bootleg. Sure there is the odd song or two from a few shows but that doesn't make up an entire bootleg. From 69 - on is 90 percent of the live stuff that is bootlegged. Not EVERY show was taped. Now take into account (you still with me Tony ?) that after 69 they toured on average once every three years for an average of about 60 shows per USA/Europe tour, up untill the 1989 tour. 69/70 , 72/73, 75/76 = 3 X 60 = 180
78 tour was about 30 shows + 81/82 (60) = 90, 180 + 90 = 270
So you see Tony that we are now up to the 1989 tour and we've got an average of about 270 shows and NOT all of them were recorded. I could go on but I hope that you FINALLY FUCKING GET IT ? I'm betting you don't.
Later, CF |
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| steel driving hammer |
Jee, so many words you write...(Loose Pocket Change)
No need to be bitter, or calling people hateful names now.
You seem fustrated, and it's all yours.
The Stones have 3 times as many bootlegs than Zep.
PS. Maybe more...
PSS. I am rooting so much for The Kings and thinking of you a little bit when I watch the game.
If only Bibby and Webber would kick it up a knotch!
They just HAVE to beat the fucking Lakers and Dallas and they've got it made, in the shade...
What kind of trouble did I get into?
Gotcha moving, gotcha moving
Not staying long just passing through
Keep you rolling, keep you rolling
I know the chemicals you like too
Gotcha moving, gotcha moving
And if you ask me nice
I'll take you to school
Keep you rolling, keep you rolling
I took all I need
I don't need no more
Then I'll take what I want
Until I want some more
You can't stop
Or I will pass ya
If you slow down
I'll out last ya
But when you're down
You won't find me laughing
Just one question I might ask ya
It might sound like a disaster
Can you make this thing go faster?
I know something baby we can do
Gotcha moving, gotcha moving
A pinch, a bite, a lick or maybe two
Keep you rolling, keep you rolling
Saw what I came to see
Don't want to see no more
I don't think it's diseased
But is sure is sore
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| Nasty Habits |
I have stayed away from this topic for the last week because arguing with the hammer seems like, well, arguing with a hammer. But the problem here is semantics and definition. A bootleg is not a concert recording you've made for your self. That's a tape. In the "underground circulation industry" there have always been tape traders, and bootleggers. A usually have some kind of contempt for B, because B is involved in COMMERCIAL enterprises while A "is only in it for the music, man!" Also in it for status and power and perceived superiority because of the fabulous obscurity and number of tapes, but that's tape traders for you. Bootlegs are bought at record stores. Bootlegs are bought on ebay. Bootlegs are bought at record shows. Bootlegs are bought on some guy's website. Bootlegs are not traded and given freely by you and me to fellow Stones fans and curiosity seekers. We are trading tapes. CDs or not. Even if these tapes came from a bootleg, they are still circulating recordings, not boots.
Of course, bootleg is a much more romantic, charming and cool term than tape trading, so it's easy to see why one would hold on to it with dear life.
But the fact of the matter is that most of the Stones shows from 1989 forward are in PRIVATE circulation and your average bootleg manufacturer doesn't give a shit about most of them because they're audience recordings, and better sounding tapes from the same tours are available. Average customer, trust me, does not want to buy mediocre audience after mediocre audience. Most want one good sounding show per tour, if that. The extant audience tapes hold a great deal of appeal to fans of the Stones, and may contain great performances the less than devoted don't get to hear, but they have no real market value. They are not bootlegs. They are just tapes.
Bootleg whiskey is whiskey you bought illegally. Moonshine whiskey is whiskey you've made for yourself. Also known as white lightning.
The Stones have more white lightning than Led Zeppelin and the Beatles put together. Although I'm not so sure they have more moonshine than Bob Dylan.
And if God don't like it, I don't either.
The End.
[Edited by Nasty Habits] |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
SDH....Man, you gotta stop playing so stupid. You are shooting what is left of your cred smack dab in the foot.
Look, just because YOU want to call EVERYTHING that isn't an official release a "bootleg" does not make it so. The accepted definition of "bootleg" is an unoffical recording that has been released FOR SALE. Stuff you get from a tree, or a B&P from Marko, ARE NOT BOOTLEGS!!! We may refer to them as such INFORMALLY, but that is just because it's an easy blanket term to use...and it sounds cool. Still, it IS a misuse of the term.
On top of that...just how do you know how many bootlegs are available for Led Zepplin? Are you trying to tell us that you have lots of experience with Led Zepplin bootlegs? Have you ever traded with a Zepplin trader? Ever seen any of their lists? Ever visited a Zepplin trading site? I can answer that for you...no you haven't. If you had, you wouldn't even be debating this. Led Zepplin has a RETARDED amount of factory pressed, silver CD, released for sale, actual REAL bootlegs. So many that it is just unbelievable. I don't know WHY all of those titles exist..but exist they do. IMO, they are a waste of good plastic, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.
Have you noticed that YOU are the ONLY person who doesn't seem to understand this concept? I would have thought that you were just trying to stir up some shit...except I've met you. I rode in a car that you were driving. I know that this isn't an act that you put on.
I'm gonna offer you a bit of free advice. It is better to remain silent and appear stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt of your stupidity. |
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| steel driving hammer |
I'm sorry for thinking The Rolling Stones has more Bootlegs than Zep.
Feel like I'm being Stoned to death for thinking that. |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
Nasty Habits wrote:
Bootleg whiskey is whiskey you bought illegally. Moonshine whiskey is whiskey you've made for yourself. Also known as white lightning.
The Stones have more white lightning than Led Zeppelin and the Beatles put together. Although I'm not so sure they have more moonshine than Bob Dylan.
Good analogy, given intended audience. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Tony...you missed the point.
You are getting slammed because you continued to blather on about it, even after the facts on the subject were laid bare for all to see. You got slammed because you blew off about a subject that you know nothing about. You got slammed because the rest of us were using an accepted definition of what a "bootleg" was for this discussion...and you STILL babbled on about some OTHER definition that the rest of us discounted.
It's like way back when at another board...you kept on saying that golf wasn't a sport, and Tiger Woods wasn't an athelete. That NASCAR racing isn't a sport, and driver's aren't athletes. It didn't matter to you that the rest of the known universe accepts those things as true, you kept on yappin' anyway. There could only be 2 reasons for this. 1. You are a moron, or 2. You were doing it just to be a prick.
Did you really lie about getting married? I really hope that you didn't lie to me about that. I mean, I offered to come out to your wedding! I didn't think twice when you told me it was going to be a small, family type ceremony...and I was sincerely happy for you. I wanted to be there for you. But it's a simple matter to check out. I know where you live, one call to your local Register and Recorder and I'll know the truth. It's public information dude. So there is no point in lying any further. Did you get married or not? |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
Sir Stonesalot wrote:
Did you get married or not?
I called it off.
Like the Stones Bootlegs songs says...
"I ain't one of those marrying kind" |
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| justforyou |
Oh well, guess I don't have any boots either then. I'll leave them to the elitist silver pressing holders with the official boot catalogs and shit. |
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| justforyou |
Hey SirStonedAlot, what the fuck does someone's marriage have to do with anything ? What an ass! |
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| steel driving hammer |
quote:
justforyou wrote:
Hey SirStonedAlot, what the fuck does someone's marriage have to do with anything ? What an ass!
Because I didn't tell him about what happend and played I was married.
Sad O' Day just a bad o' day...
A bootleg I think is still an unofficial recording of a show...
THATS a bootleg... |
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| Honky Tonk Man |
A bootleg is a cd or a video copied without the consent of the person(s) who own the rights to it. You can bootleg just about anything these days. This is a shit analyisis, but i thought id have a stab at it
Alex |
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| Gazza |
>Look, just because YOU want to call EVERYTHING that isn't an official release a "bootleg" does not make it so. The accepted definition of "bootleg" is an unoffical recording that has been released FOR SALE. Stuff you get from a tree, or a B&P from Marko, ARE NOT BOOTLEGS!!! We may refer to them as such INFORMALLY, but that is just because it's an easy blanket term to use...and it sounds cool. Still, it IS a misuse of the term.
absolutely 100% correct. A "Bootleg" is a commercially available factory pressed product - similar in concept to an official release, apart from its legality. A home made CDR or a tape youve made from a concert ISNT. Neither is a CDR copy someones sent you in a trade that isnt an original bootleg CD for that matter.
for the record - When I started collecting Stones unofficial recordings on tape in the early 80's, most people didnt want recordings copied from bootleg LP's - the serious collectors wanted the recordings from the original tape source (ideally as close to the master tape as possible) so I never bought bootleg LPs for that reason. In other words, they wanted you to list whether your recording of a certain show as taken from a bootleg or from original tape source (therefore, and as an example, my 5th gen PA recording of Passaic 14.6.78 was much more in demand than the tape I had of the bootleg "Garden State 78" even though it was essentially the same thing to most ears..)
Since CDR's now seem to be the rage,this appears to be less important anymore.
I dont collect bootleg CDs and LP's and never have done. Theyre easy to find but I dont have the inclination or money to spend on them, and Ive never seen the logic of buying the same show over and over again on different titles unless its a particularly good one and in greatly improved quality. As a result I have approximately 1800 tapes of the Stones - some taken from bootlegs, some taken from original source recordings. Since 1999,Ive concentrated almost exclusively on CDRs,amassing a couple of hundred more titles/shows in the process (maybe about 400-500 actual discs) . I dont waste my money on overpriced CD's when I can get an equally good copy on CDR and download/design my own artwork.
the amount of ACTUAL original Rolling Stones bootleg LPs and CD's that I actually OWN would barely make double figures - maybe even less. If I collected bootleg LPs and CD's my collection would probably be a tenth of what it is now. Believe me,this is a much more fun and cheaper way of building a collection!
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| Gazza |
HTM SAID>
A bootleg is a cd or a video copied without the consent of the person(s) who own the rights to it. You can bootleg just about anything these days. This is a shit analyisis, but i thought id have a stab at it
not bad,but check out Cardinal Fang's definition of the difference in bootleg/pirate/counterfeit on page 1 of this thread and that is the EXACT definition.
CF - your signature cracked me up...even if I dont understand that "Chinese" bit..! I dont have the "Gazza of Arabia" pic anymore on my computer since my PC crashed but its well worth a giggle if you can dig it out
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| Sir Stonesalot |
JFY...no, in fact, you probably don't own any boots...and neither do I. I own CDR copies.
OH, and the bit about SDH's supposed marraige....The deal is that I wanted him to know that someone that I called a friend...not just a cyber friend...but a very real life, personal friend, lied to me about an important life event.
I wanted to let him know that he fucked up big time. It just isn't cool to do that sort of thing. And it pissed me off enough to show him up in public. Now, everyone here can see him for what he is.
If that makes me an ass...so be it. I'm probably a lot worse. |
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