| March 31st, 2005 10:05 AM |
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| Joey |
.............. ! ™
*************** END TRANSMISSION *********************** |
| March 31st, 2005 10:18 AM |
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| FPM C10 |
Thank GOD (said the agnostic)- now I don't need to have an opinion on her anymore. This whole case was NOBODY's business and most of America actually agrees with me on that, I think.
I wonder how long the Bush brothers will drag her corpse around in public before they find another cause to champion. |
| March 31st, 2005 10:22 AM |
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| J.J.Flash |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
Thank GOD (said the agnostic)- now I don't need to have an opinion on her anymore. This whole case was NOBODY's business and most of America actually agrees with me on that, I think.
I wonder how long the Bush brothers will drag her corpse around in public before they find another cause to champion.
Well said fellow! |
| March 31st, 2005 10:34 AM |
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| Martha |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
Thank GOD (said the agnostic)- now I don't need to have an opinion on her anymore. This whole case was NOBODY's business and most of America actually agrees with me on that, I think.
I wonder how long the Bush brothers will drag her corpse around in public before they find another cause to champion.
Well said darlin'.
May she rest in peace.
xxoo,
MM
PS Watch your mailbox.......:-) |
| March 31st, 2005 10:36 AM |
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| Nellcote |
Yeah, if only Michael Schiavo had the stones to let the parents take over her care in the 90's none of this public drama would have happened. |
| March 31st, 2005 10:39 AM |
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| The_Worst |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
Thank GOD (said the agnostic)- now I don't need to have an opinion on her anymore. This whole case was NOBODY's business and most of America actually agrees with me on that, I think.
I wonder how long the Bush brothers will drag her corpse around in public before they find another cause to champion.
FPM C10,
You disgust me... |
| March 31st, 2005 10:43 AM |
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| LadyJane |
My condolences to Terri's ENTIRE family. I hope they find closure.
May she finally, FINALLY rest in peace.
LJ. |
| March 31st, 2005 10:56 AM |
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| Joey |
<------------Oasis to play RED ROCKS !!!!!!
http://www.kathyszaksite.com/oasis20053.html#hb |
| March 31st, 2005 10:56 AM |
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| Riffhard |
I'm not going to get into a pissing match here,but Micheal Shiavo is a complete asshole. He only stated Terri's wishes to die seven years after she fell ill. No one else heard these wishes. Only Micheal. Coincidently that was right about the same time that the million dollars ran out. He refused any and all physical therepy for her since 1993. The bastard even refused to allow her to be taken outside for the last eight years of her life! At least 25 nerologists stated on the record that Terri was not brain dead. Only one doctor ever said she was. That was the doctor that did the first examination. All supporting doctors simply backed this doctor up based on his records. They never examined her themselves. The docotor that did examine her was hired by Micheal Shiavo. Terri was never given an MRI. Not once! Why?
A nurse that cared for Terri for 18 monthes swore under oath and penelty of perjury that Micheal said to her quote,"When is the bitch gonna die already?" The guy is scum! Period! If any man refused to allow me to care for my daughter(after he had hooked up with another woman and had two kids with her) I would kill him. I would kill him with my bare hands. He is beyond an asshole. He is a cruel and heartless bastard!
By the way,fuck the ACLU! If Terri had been a prisoner convicted of rape,murder,or any other violent crime,they would have fought tooth and nail to keep her alive! This was nothing more,or less,than state sanctioned murder!
Why wouldn't Micheal Shiavo let any more doctors look at her? Why couldn't he put off murdering her until at least the Schindler family doctors could examine her. Why not error on the side of life?! She was murdered by a cruel set of laws and a heartless monster named Micheal Shiavo. End of story.
Now the parents who brought Terri into this world don't even have the option of having their daughter buried in the family plot. No,Micheal Shiavo has stated that she will be cremated and buried where he deems fit! Terri was a devout Catholic. As such cremation was not an option for her or her family,but that has not stopped this heartless bastard from holding her lifless body hostage from the family who truly loved her! He is scum!!! I hope he rots in hell.
Riffhard
[Edited by Riffhard] |
| March 31st, 2005 11:44 AM |
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| Joey |
" I'm not going to get into a pissing match here,but Micheal Shiavo is a complete asshole. "
 !!!!!!!
" He only stated Terri's wishes to die seven years after she fell ill. No one else heard these wishes. Only Micheal."
 !!!!!!!!!!!
" Coincidently that was right about the same time that the million dollars ran out. He refused any and all physical therepy for her since 1993. The bastard even refused to allow her to be taken outside for the last eight years of her life! At least 25 nerologists stated on the record that Terri was not brain dead. "
 !!!!
" Only one doctor ever said she was. That was the doctor that did the first examination. All supporting doctors simply backed this doctor up based on his records. They never examined her themselves. The docotor that did examine her was hired by Micheal Shiavo. Terri was never given an MRI. Not once! Why? "
 !  !!!!!!!!!!
" A nurse that cared for Terri for 18 monthes swore under oath and penelty of perjury that Micheal said to her quote,"When is the bitch gonna die already?" The guy is scum! Period! If any man refused to allow me to care for my daughter(after he had hooked up with another woman and had two kids with her) I would kill him. I would kill him with my bare hands. He is beyond an asshole. He is a cruel and heartless bastard! "
 !!!
" By the way,fuck the ACLU! If Terri had been a prisoner convicted of rape,murder,or any other violent crime,they would have fought tooth and nail to keep her alive! This was nothing more,or less,than state sanctioned murder! "
Deep  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" Why wouldn't Micheal Shiavo let any more doctors look at her? Why couldn't he put off murdering her until at least the Schindler family doctors could examine her. Why not error on the side of life?! She was murdered by a cruel set of laws and a heartless monster named Micheal Shiavo. End of story. "
Incredible  !!!!!
" Now the parents who brought Terri into this world don't even have the option of having their daughter buried in the family plot. No,Micheal Shiavo has stated that she will be cremated and buried where he deems fit! Terri was a devout Catholic. As such cremation was not an option for her or her family,but that has not stopped this heartless bastard from holding her lifless body hostage from the family who truly loved her! He is scum!!! I hope he rots in hell. "
 !!!!!!!!!!!
JJJJJJJACKY !!!!! ™
.......................................................
[ Edited by Terri Schiavo ]
[Edited by Joey] |
| March 31st, 2005 12:03 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
The amount of misinformation on this one really is astonishing by any standards. Forget the politicians, it was the media and the various commentators who expressed "opinions" that finally took their turn to jump the shark. What a fiasco.
This thread will likely get very large and promote all kinds of hyperbole, or downright falsehoods, as fact. See Riffhard's post. However, for the very small minority of people who post here that actually have any interest in baseline facts, here is a link to start. The court Opinions are, of course, invaluable in understanding the case. They are all here I believe, except the last one from the 11th circuit (which was very important though). If you are really interested (or bored) compare the Opinions to what is reported about the Opinions in the mainstream. Unbelievable.
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html
One of the presumptive lessons from this would be to make sure you get a living will completed NOW that is detailed about what you want done should you find yourself in Schiavo's condition. But that whole procedure seems kind of suspect now if you have certain types of relatives, and a particular political climate going. You might be fucked no matter what you do now. The Schiavo Doctrine.....
"We all love the federal administrative state now, Ronnie!" |
| March 31st, 2005 12:22 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
The_Worst wrote:
FPM C10,
You disgust me...
Hmmm. I'm not sure who you are, exactly, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have it any other way.
My stance on the subject of Ms. Schiavo is and has always been: it's none of my goddamned business. I don't know these people, I don't know the facts - and none of you people do either.
I refuse to be manipulated in one direction or the other by the much-disputed "facts" of the case. No matter WHAT the facts are, it's NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!! I don't want to have an opinion about Terri Schiavo ... OR Scott Peterson OR Michael Jackson OR Jon Benet Ramsey OR O.J. fucking Simpson. NONE OF THIS SHIT IS ANY OF OUR BUSINESS. I'm sorry if the concept of minding your own business "disgusts" you.
I can only deal with something like this on a personal level. I know that I(and every single person I know) would not want to be artificially kept alive for 15 DAYS let alone 15 fucking years, and if my family had the horrendously poor judgement to think I did, I certainly wouldn't want anyone in the Bush family making up new laws and breaking old ones to enable them to keep my useless flesh "alive".
Where does this line of thinking lead? Just about any body could be kept "alive" indefinitely - does that mean they SHOULD be? Is that what you guys WANT? Everyone who slips into a coma will henceforth be kept alive indefinitely. Of course, that only applies to those who can afford adequate health insurance to pay for the machines. Bush's mighty Coalition of the Clueless (the people who get their news from Fox exclusively, for instance) invokes god constantly, yet took god completely OUT of this one, as they do whenever it suits your purposes.
As for the Bush brothers and their cronies using this pathetic, tragic story for their own political gain, that's one thing that really disgusts ME. And THAT is an opinion I'm entitled to, unlike any opinion any of us have about Terri Schiavo.
May she FINALLY rest in peace.
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| March 31st, 2005 12:28 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
I'm not going to get into a pissing match here...
[Edited by Riffhard]
WHY is it that you ALWAYS say that right before you take a gigantic, steaming, racehorse-worthy piss? |
| March 31st, 2005 12:37 PM |
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| kath |
it's interesting that neither anybody on sdb or here mentioned this until she finally died. i think it's like putting politics on the board (which this WAS, btw) and can only stir up bad feelings.
i hope she is flying with the angels now. or whoever you fly with.
and that we can get back to whatever it was everybody talked about before this intruded into our collective consciousness. |
| March 31st, 2005 12:41 PM |
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| ResidentMule |
I don't know about everyone else, but whether or not Micheal Shiavo is an asshole isn't any of my concern. it really doesn't change a thing for me. almost anyone would say in that situation they'd rather have the plug pulled, and if she wasn't clinically braindead that's all the more reason to say she was miserable. I'm not defending the decision as I really don't think its any of my business to, I'm just saying I'm not gonna disagree with the decision just because the guy behind it was a dick. even if he did it for all the wrong reasons (I should mention again that I don't really know or don't really care) all that should matter as far as I'm concerned is that hopefully now Terri can rest in peace. |
| March 31st, 2005 12:41 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
As for the Bush brothers and their cronies using this pathetic, tragic story for their own political gain, that's one thing that really disgusts ME. And THAT is an opinion I'm entitled to, unlike any opinion any of us have about Terri Schiavo.
May she FINALLY rest in peace.
FPM you know I love ya like the "Blimp Brother" you are,but I think you are being way too cynical here. If the Bush bros. were trying to play politics here surly they would have taken the other side of this story. Afterall most polls show that most people feel that they oversteped thier bounds here. Myself included. However,I feel that GW and Jeb Bush trully felt that the morally right thing to do was to err on the side of life. This is fully consistant with their stated attitudes on the subject. I'm sure given an option neither one would have chosen to get involved,but public outcry made that wholly impossible. It made headlines the world over long before the admin or Jeb ever got involved.
As for moonie's post. Shockingly I agree with most of it. Certainly the living will aspect of it. However,Micheal Shiavo seemed to go out of his way to be an obstinant bastard. The parent's feelings were totally ignored here. As a parent myself I know damned good and well what my feelings would be towards a son-in-law like Micheal. This is well beyond the "letter of the law". It's about human decency. Why were the parents right's and wishes completely ignored? The law. That just seems a bit cold to me. Should the autopsy come back that Terri had any "higher" learning skills,or felt any pain at all because of starvation and dehyration then all bets are off.
15 years in a bed is no way to live,but we can never know what Terri's wishes were. We can only go on Micheal's word. Some doctors felt that perhaps Terri could have been rehabilitated to degree that was worth living. Yet Micheal refused to allow any rehabilitation to take place for the last eight years of her life. A horrible case all the way around. I'll be getting a living will for sure.
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 12:43 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
FPM C10 wrote:
WHY is it that you ALWAYS say that right before you take a gigantic, steaming, racehorse-worthy piss?
Point taken! LOL! It's my fallback excuse! Just go with it!
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 12:45 PM |
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| Factory Girl |
I, for once, agree with R-hard. Her hubster is scum of the highest order.
RIP Terri S.
[Edited by Factory Girl] |
| March 31st, 2005 12:47 PM |
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| ResidentMule |
oh yeah, and I'm curious to know too what's so disgusting about what FPM said
once again, seems to me more people who have opinions are basing them off Micheal Shiavo, not Terri. I would rather see people leave themselves out than get swayed by how the media plays it |
| March 31st, 2005 01:09 PM |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
ResidentMule wrote:
oh yeah, and I'm curious to know too what's so disgusting about what FPM said
It was probably the thing about Bush. His supporters can't stand it when you call a swine a swine.
quote:
once again, seems to me more people who have opinions are basing them off Micheal Shiavo, not Terri. I would rather see people leave themselves out than get swayed by how the media plays it
Exactly - especially when we are obviously SUPPOSED to relate Michael Schiavo to Scott Peterson. And why the hell do I even know who they are?
Who picks out the cases that America becomes enhralled with? And why? Why was the Schiavo case any different from that of my co-worker who had to pull the plug on his mom, or my friend who had to make the same decision about his sister? Why weren't THEY in the news and on the floor of Congress? At exactly the same time Bush was making his AMAZINGLY hypocritical (even for HIM) "err on the side of life" quote and flying to DC (on our tab) to get in on the action, a baby in Texas was unplugged using a law Bush championed while Governor which took the decision OUT of the mother's hands. Why wasn't THAT the case which all of America was focused on?
A better question is akin to Kath's plea for sanity - what did America do BEFORE we had celebrity trials? Doesn't anybody have anthing better to do? |
| March 31st, 2005 01:36 PM |
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| ResidentMule |
you can't be too cynical when it comes to Bush
I'm not gonna lie and say I don't have some opinion, I just base my opinion solely on Terri Shaivo and nothing else - that's why I haven't followed all the facts of the case. I do think she was suffering and is probably better off this way. I mean, you can wait around til she gets all better and ask her, or you can say enough is enough - she's gotta be in misery. its not an easy decision to make because its our instinct to help people and try to keep them alive - but lets be realistic, I learned when I was like 8 years that its more humane to put an animal out of its misery than let it suffer. Most people would choose death over being completely incapacitated.
Anyway, that's my opinion, you can accept it, you can hate it, but just remember I never asked you to legislate it. if anybody disagrees with me, fine - just do it without bringing up the husband or politics or don't waste my time. I hate to see something like this get turned into a debate about living wills or any of that petty political shit. maybe the parents should've gotten to choose - I don't know, all I know is, this is why you don't marry somebody you wouldn't trust to take care of you when you get sick or die
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| March 31st, 2005 01:51 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
ResidentMule wrote:
you can't be too cynical when it comes to Bush
That's where you're wrong. I am openly cynical when it comes to Hillary(the oppertunist) and Bubba(the rapist),but I am not at all cynical when it comes to Bush. He says what he means and means what he says. Some people call that naive. I call it showing an unshakeable resolve. Many past presidents had these same qualities. Truman,FDR,Reagan among them. The same could never be said for a man that based his whole presidency on popularity polls. If Bush had done that then he would never have weighed in on this topic the way he did.
At the end of the day this stupid argument is very partisan,and I'd like to end the political bickering here. However,the Shiavo case crossed party lines. No one would ever accuse Sen. Harkin of being a conservative. Jesse Jackson!? Please!
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 02:00 PM |
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| ResidentMule |
I don't see how I'm wrong. I'm cynical even about politicians I like. I could pick apart the different ones' personality flaws, or I could just accept the fact that there is a shared personality flaw required of all successful politicians. now Bush I flat out don't trust, but that's different from being cynical.
you can put a nice spin with terms like "unshakeable resolve" - it only means stubborn to me. when he stays the same course even when proven wrong(like the WMD thing) - I don't see that as a quality to admire. |
| March 31st, 2005 02:40 PM |
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| Moonisup |
I hope she rests in peace |
| March 31st, 2005 03:14 PM |
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| kath |
anybody who wants to euthanize me, please...be my guest..... |
| March 31st, 2005 03:41 PM |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
kath wrote:
anybody who wants to euthanize me, please...be my guest.....
That is a different argument all together kath. Euthanasia(sp?) is one thing. That implies "unplugging" someone from a respirator or life support. Someone,by the way,who has been deemed brain dead. She was denied sustanace. She was killed. She was starved and dehydrated to death. Many differnt doctors have argued that she was not brain dead. Patients who are brain dead can not breathe on their own. Terri could.
All Micheal Shiavo had to do was agree to allow other doctors to review the case to prove once and for all the condition of Terri's brain. The parent's wish was to have her looked at by other neurologists. He could have easily allowed that and still retained his custody over Terri. What difference would an extra month have made after fifteen years?(that is what Bush means when he said "err on the side of life) He could then rightfully say that he tried everything and even tried to keep Terri's parents in the loop with regards to Terri's best interests. In the end he choose to speak only through a lawyer that seemed way to eager to kill Terri. He openly opposed any of Terri's parents and siblings wishes. Hence,he is seen as a heartless bastard. Rightfully so I might add.
If this had been a lab rat or a monkey we were talking about imagine PETA's response?!
Riffhard |
| March 31st, 2005 03:43 PM |
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| sirmoonie |
What I said..... |
| March 31st, 2005 03:52 PM |
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| Poplar |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
If this had been a lab rat or a monkey we were talking about imagine PETA's response?!
good point.
still worse, a woman that was clearly so concerned with her appearance spent her last years as a vegetable on television all around the world ... and the people that wanted to keep her alive were actually handing out DVD's of her, claiming to show she was "responsive." disgusting. long story short - her punk hubbie won the day in court, and it has to end there. it just never shouls have been a public matter. she was a beautiful young woman, may she RIP. |
| March 31st, 2005 04:08 PM |
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| kath |
ok. here's what i think (like everybody cares)
terry schiavo was an overweight young woman. about 240 as i recall, and of course, our society tells us that women can't be fat and have any worth. so, she lost a BUNCH of weight, really fast. then wanted to get pregnant and they were having trouble accomplishing that (probably because her metabolic system was toast from the rapid weight loss.) so she has procedures to try to help her get pregnant. and boom. one day she codes. she is very young, so OF COURSE they resuscitate her! anybody would in that case. who knew she would wind up not waking up ,ever? they tried to save her. her husband stayed close for a long time, won a 750k settlement in a malpractice suit and all of it went for her care. after many years, he found someone. good for him. but he stuck by her, and he fought for what he thought and/or knew that terri would want...to not be plugged in forever.
now, let's stand back for a second. how many of you folks have kids who are in their teens or 20's? have you ever asked them what they would want? "oh tiffany, i know you have a routine doctor appt today. what if you code while you are there, what do you want us to do? and if you don't, would you bring home some eggs and bread?" i would wager NOBODY here has done that. it's hard enough to talk to your elderly or sick parents about what THEY want, but to talk to your kids about what they might want in case it happens to them? not gonna happen. but it's very likely that in a marriage, when you hear/read about somebody being on life support for a long time, you are likely to say "please, don't let them do that to me. promise me you won't." it's not written anywhere. you're 20-something, a doctor won't even talk to you about it at that age.
so, he says she didn't wanna be on life support forever. but mom and dad, and not surprisingly, didn't wanna give up on their daughter. who would? you read about people who come out of comas. not often at all, but once in a while, it happens.
15 years go by. terri is all drawn up in a fetal position. docotor after doctor has said "vegetative state", and 38 judges have said "vegetative state." all husband wants is for her to be allowed some dignity and be allowed to go where ever you go when you die.
that doesn't make him the devil. it makes him a guy who says he knew what his wife would have wanted. that's all.
it's a lesson for us all. and btw, "advanced directives" and "living wills" don't mean shit anywhere, especially hospitals. the doctor has to write a specific order in your chart saying "no code", or they will try to resuscitate you. same if you're in a wreck or something happens to you on the street. unless you have a bracelet or a tattoo that says "leave me alone", they will try to resuscitate you. make sure you know what you want, your family knows, your doctor knows, and that it is written down somewhere. otherwise, this could be your family.
i hope that family can find some peace, and that terri is finally where she was supposed to be. |
| March 31st, 2005 04:14 PM |
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| Irresistible-Lady |
are you serious? |
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