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| Factory Girl |
From WashingtonPost.com 3/21/08
The Speech: A Brilliant Fraud
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, March 21, 2008; Page A17
The beauty of a speech is that you don't just give the answers, you provide your own questions. "Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes." So said Barack Obama, in his Philadelphia speech about his pastor, friend, mentor and spiritual adviser of 20 years, Jeremiah Wright.
An interesting, if belated, admission. But the more important question is: which"controversial" remarks?
Wright's assertion from the pulpit that the U.S. government invented HIV "as a means of genocide against people of color"? Wright's claim that America was morally responsible for Sept. 11 -- "chickens coming home to roost" -- because of, among other crimes, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? (Obama says he missed church that day. Had he never heard about it?) What about the charge that the U.S. government (of Franklin Roosevelt, mind you) knew about Pearl Harbor, but lied about it? Or that the government gives drugs to black people, presumably to enslave and imprison them?
Obama condemns such statements as wrong and divisive, then frames the next question: "There will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Reverend Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?"
But that is not the question. The question is why didn't he leave that church? Why didn't he leave -- why doesn't he leave even today -- a pastor who thundered not once but three times from the pulpit (on a DVD the church proudly sells) "God damn America"? Obama's 5,000-word speech, fawned over as a great meditation on race, is little more than an elegantly crafted, brilliantly sophistic justification of that scandalous dereliction.
His defense rests on two central propositions: (a) moral equivalence and (b) white guilt.
(a) Moral equivalence. Sure, says Obama, there's Wright, but at the other "end of the spectrum" there's Geraldine Ferraro, opponents of affirmative action and his own white grandmother, "who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe." But did she shout them in a crowded theater to incite, enrage and poison others?
"I can no more disown [Wright] than I can my white grandmother." What exactly was Grandma's offense? Jesse Jackson himself once admitted to the fear he feels from the footsteps of black men on the street. And Harry Truman was known to use epithets for blacks and Jews in private, yet is revered for desegregating the armed forces and recognizing the first Jewish state since Jesus's time. He never spread racial hatred. Nor did Grandma.
Yet Obama compares her to Wright. Does he not see the moral difference between the occasional private expression of the prejudices of one's time and the use of a public stage to spread racial lies and race hatred?
(b) White guilt. Obama's purpose in the speech was to put Wright's outrages in context. By context, Obama means history. And by history, he means the history of white racism. Obama says, "We do not need to recite here the history of racial injustice in this country," and then he proceeds to do precisely that. What lies at the end of his recital of the long train of white racial assaults from slavery to employment discrimination? Jeremiah Wright, of course.
This contextual analysis of Wright's venom, this extenuation of black hate speech as a product of white racism, is not new. It's the Jesse Jackson politics of racial grievance, expressed in Ivy League diction and Harvard Law nuance. That's why the speech made so many liberal commentators swoon: It bathed them in racial guilt while flattering their intellectual pretensions. An unbeatable combination.
But Obama was supposed to be new. He flatters himself as a man of the future transcending the anger of the past as represented by his beloved pastor. Obama then waxes rhapsodic about the hope brought by the new consciousness of the young people in his campaign. Then answer this, Senator: If Wright is a man of the past, why would you expose your children to his vitriolic divisiveness? This is a man who curses America and who proclaimed moral satisfaction in the deaths of 3,000 innocents at a time when their bodies were still being sought at Ground Zero. It is not just the older congregants who stand and cheer and roar in wild approval of Wright's rants, but young people as well. Why did you give $22,500 just two years ago to a church run by a man of the past who infects the younger generation with precisely the racial attitudes and animus you say you have come unto us to transcend?
[email protected]
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| CrissCrossMind |
oh all you whities are the same ... just like my dear old Grandmama ... |
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| Fiji Joe |
Of course, the easy answer is religion is bullshit and that white people just don't understand...and then there's the truth...which is the truth...But the truth doesn't leave well-wishing whites anything to do with their guilt...so they ignore the truth on a remarkable level...or they accuse those who criticize this man and his religion as being racist...because accusing someone of being a racist is a good way to stifle debate of legitimate issues
There is not a single person here, who can, in good faith, tell me that if John McCain was practicing a quasi-religion premised on the notion that any god who is not an enemy of the black man is no god at all, that he would not be finished...I think even this author misses the point...The point, IMO, is the very essence of Black Liberation Theology and the fact that this man was a sitting senator practicing it...If you know what that religion is based upon, then Wright's rhetoric does not surprise you one bit...If you know what that religion is based upon, the fact that Obama has most likely won the democrat nomination should shock the ever living hell out of you...then again, people can, and will, just remain ignorant on the issue...that will neither surprise nor shock me
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| Riffhard |
Krauthammer is a genius. I love the way he pointed out exactly why whites, especially the "privileged Ivy Schooled whites" masturbated to this phony fucking speech! There are a couple of people on this here very message board that that particular part of the article addresses a touch to close to the bone, perhaps?
Only Obama apologists and die hard liberals still support this guy. Obama is finished! He will be forgotten soon enough, as will his self serving phony speech.
Riffy |
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| sirmoonie |
Is Granny Obam getting any increased security because of the convenient name drop? Poor woman was frightened enough as it is. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Krauthammer is a genius. I love the way he pointed out exactly why whites, especially the "privileged Ivy Schooled whites" masturbated to this phony fucking speech! There are a couple of people on this here very message board that that particular part of the article addresses a touch to close to the bone, perhaps?
Only Obama apologists and die hard liberals still support this guy. Obama is finished! He will be forgotten soon enough, as will his self serving phony speech.
Riffy
Heh...typical white person |
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| Fiji Joe |
Martin Luther King would have slapped Obama and his pastor up side their heads....
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"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."
James Cone - Founder of Black Liberation Theology
James Cone's book was, until the start of this year, suggested Required reading at Obama's church |
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| the good |
Sniff. Sniff. Anyone else smell that? It smells like a McCain landslide shaping up. The lion will roar this november. |
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| sirmoonie |
quote:
the good wrote:
Sniff. Sniff. Anyone else smell that? It smells like a McCain landslide shaping up. The lion will roar this november.
I don't know, he's got the white privilege thing pretty fucking bad. Can he rebound with some understanding of the black experience? |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
sirmoonie wrote:
I don't know, he's got the white privilege thing pretty fucking bad. Can he rebound with some understanding of the black experience?
He can...His staffers have two hours set aside for him tonight designed for just that purpose
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| glencar |
quote:
the good wrote:
Sniff. Sniff. Anyone else smell that? It smells like a McCain landslide shaping up. The lion will roar this november.
From your fingers to (white?) God's ears... |
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| CrissCrossMind |
the Rev is on a slow boat to China ... Obama & his Grandmama have not been ble to communicate with him ... the Rev will not surface until May flowers abound ... has anyone else heard from people they know in the black community ... that this church is not near mainstream within their culture? .. hate is hate baby ... CCM |
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| glencar |
The unanswered question from O'Bama's speech this week was what would Granny think of Rev. Wright walking down the street. Would she grab her handbag a bit tighter? |
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| pdog |
I can't wait til the Democrat posters respond to this, so the Republican posters can call them stupid.
It's awesome when white guilt meets white denial. You get a retarded president. |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I can't wait til the Democrat posters respond to this, so the Republican posters can call them stupid.
It's awesome when white guilt meets white denial. You get a retarded president.
Dude it's simpler than that, by citing Obama's pastors' racist pronouncements, the folks on these threads get a free pass to unleash their own racism. Two wrongs making a Wright an' shit!
[Edited by monkey_man] |
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| glencar |
Nope, I can keep my racism in check & just post what the good Rev & his acolyte say. I am watching FOX News & they're showing a radio interview wherein Barry O'Bama talks about his typical white person aka "granny." Can he get any fucking sleazier? He tossed her under the bus earlier this week & now he's backing up & running over her again. |
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| Riffhard |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I can't wait til the Democrat posters respond to this, so the Republican posters can call them stupid.
It's awesome when white guilt meets white denial. You get a retarded president.
Here ya go pdog. Please consider responding to this post now that we have effectively gone to page two here. Oh, and nobody is denying that racism exists. It's you who are denying that it is being foisted upon people by Race Hustlers, and liberal "white guilt" filled policies. Read the post below and understand that I don't feel one tiny bit guilty for the sins of my fathers because I know that people can rise above it all if they try! Some simply don't want to try becaue they feel "owed".
quote:
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pdog wrote:
Riffy, religion is bullshit, and religion and politics is why humans suffer and fight wars. There's no gray area here. Jews, christians and muslims been doing for a long, long time!!! This isn't about Obama, it's about racial hatred and religion. Republicans and Dems are both equally guilty, so don't anyone go making this an issue of left or right, b/c that is more partisan bullshit, and proof of how fucking in denial most humans are about prejudice and hate!
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Pdog I do not for an instant think that religion is bullshit. Not even close. The act of using religion as an excuse to abuse power, or foment violence is one thing. However, it is painting with far too wide a brush to say that all religion is bullshit. My niece is staunchly religious for example. Know what she last year for two months? She spent time in the most poverty stricken regions of Central America to help build houses for people that had nothing. She also spent the better part of six weeks in New Orleans after Katrina. Both of these trips were organized by her church. Religion can be great when it sticks to it's core values. Unless, of course, those core values include shit like Black Liberation, and other such hateful tenets.
I'm gonna tell you a true story. Back in 1991 I moved down to Boca Raton to work as an Executive Sous Chef at one of Boca's most prestigious country clubs. Boca Grove. As the Exec Sous my job was to not only plan menus etc, but also to schedule and handle the dish washing staff and other kitchen staff. Many of them were Haitian. One became very close to me. We called him Scoots because he was so damned fast at everything he did.
Anyway, I digress. One time I had to pull Scoots into my office because he had gotten into a rather loud verbal screaming match with one of the other dishwashers. It almost came to blows. I sat him down to hash the whole thing out. Turns out he was arguing with a black guy that was angry at Scoots for working so hard, and fast. He said that Scoots was making everyone else look bad and to slow down. Scoots said that that angered him for good reason, but what really set him off was when this guy accused him of trying to suck up to his "white bosses"! That infuriated Scoots to no end. He then said something to me that I will never forget. "Chef Steve these stupid American blacks have no idea how lucky they have it in America!" He went on to tell me of his life in Port Au Prince, Haiti. He stated that American blacks use slavery as an excuse for everything. Scooter talked about the fact that other blacks from Haiti and Africa have a strong resentments towards American blacks because they have it so easy, but they stay so angry that they never get past it. Why do American blacks feel this way? Because of "white guilt", and feel good liberal "black paternalism".
A black man from one of the poorest most violent country's in the world can see the problem for what it is. Yet, liberal "privileged whites" refuse to ever talk about it. Why? Because they don't want the label racist attached to them. So what do they do? They label everyone that disagrees with them a racist. Even if the person in disagreement is black! Everyone wins! The liberal "privileged whites" feel good for their paternalism. The Race Hustlers feel good because they can continue to fleece their own, and the government. The only losers are the blacks that are left with a bitter never ending resentment. Who foments that resentment?
Scoots could tell you.
Riffy
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| Factory Girl |
quote:
glencar wrote:
He tossed her under the bus earlier this week & now he's backing up & running over her again.
BO using his grandma to rationalize his attachment to Wrighty is more bad judgement.
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
monkey_man wrote:
Dude it's simpler than that, by citing Obama's pastors' racist pronouncements, the folks on these threads get a free pass to unleash their own racism. Two wrongs making a Wright an' shit!
[Edited by monkey_man]
I don't need to venture beyond the stated beliefs of the church in question, it's library or its sermons...Again, you wish to limit this issue to Obama's pastors' pronouncements...and it's much bigger than that...As I have PROVEN...with facts...would you like to discuss that?...Or do you just want to throw race cards at people?
I'll even spot ya...I'll let you assume Wright never made any comments that he made...I'll let you pretend that never happened...How about now?
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| glencar |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I can't wait til the Democrat posters respond to this, so the Republican posters can call them stupid.
It's awesome when white guilt meets white denial. You get a retarded president.
LISTEN, BARRY O'bAMA MAY BE THE WORLD'S BIGGEST SCUMBAG BUT HE AIN'T NO RETARD. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Factory Girl wrote:
BO using his grandma to rationalize his attachment to Wrighty is more bad judgement.
I think Obama keeps throwing grandma under the bus so he can use her as an example later in a speech about the need for universal health care |
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| glencar |
Typical white person! |
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| Factory Girl |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Typical white person!
Typical Wrighty! |
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| glencar |
BTW Typical Hispanic guy Bill Richardson has endorsed Barry O'Bama. Says he showed leadership in that speech. I wish he'd say where that leadership was. Was it in the disparagement of Granny or the "well, yes, I did hear Wrighty say some bad things, after all"? |
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| nankerphelge |
"by citing Obama's pastors' racist pronouncements, the folks on these threads get a free pass to unleash their own racism"
That could very well be the single most ridculous thing I have ever read.
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| pdog |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
Here ya go pdog. Please consider responding to this post now that we have effectively gone to page two here. Oh, and nobody is denying that racism exists. It's you who are denying that it is being foisted upon people by Race Hustlers, and liberal "white guilt" filled policies. Read the post below and understand that I don't feel one tiny bit guilty for the sins of my fathers because I know that people can rise above it all if they try! Some simply don't want to try becaue they feel "owed".
quote:
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pdog wrote:
Riffy, religion is bullshit, and religion and politics is why humans suffer and fight wars. There's no gray area here. Jews, christians and muslims been doing for a long, long time!!! This isn't about Obama, it's about racial hatred and religion. Republicans and Dems are both equally guilty, so don't anyone go making this an issue of left or right, b/c that is more partisan bullshit, and proof of how fucking in denial most humans are about prejudice and hate!
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Pdog I do not for an instant think that religion is bullshit. Not even close. The act of using religion as an excuse to abuse power, or foment violence is one thing. However, it is painting with far too wide a brush to say that all religion is bullshit. My niece is staunchly religious for example. Know what she last year for two months? She spent time in the most poverty stricken regions of Central America to help build houses for people that had nothing. She also spent the better part of six weeks in New Orleans after Katrina. Both of these trips were organized by her church. Religion can be great when it sticks to it's core values. Unless, of course, those core values include shit like Black Liberation, and other such hateful tenets.
I'm gonna tell you a true story. Back in 1991 I moved down to Boca Raton to work as an Executive Sous Chef at one of Boca's most prestigious country clubs. Boca Grove. As the Exec Sous my job was to not only plan menus etc, but also to schedule and handle the dish washing staff and other kitchen staff. Many of them were Haitian. One became very close to me. We called him Scoots because he was so damned fast at everything he did.
Anyway, I digress. One time I had to pull Scoots into my office because he had gotten into a rather loud verbal screaming match with one of the other dishwashers. It almost came to blows. I sat him down to hash the whole thing out. Turns out he was arguing with a black guy that was angry at Scoots for working so hard, and fast. He said that Scoots was making everyone else look bad and to slow down. Scoots said that that angered him for good reason, but what really set him off was when this guy accused him of trying to suck up to his "white bosses"! That infuriated Scoots to no end. He then said something to me that I will never forget. "Chef Steve these stupid American blacks have no idea how lucky they have it in America!" He went on to tell me of his life in Port Au Prince, Haiti. He stated that American blacks use slavery as an excuse for everything. Scooter talked about the fact that other blacks from Haiti and Africa have a strong resentments towards American blacks because they have it so easy, but they stay so angry that they never get past it. Why do American blacks feel this way? Because of "white guilt", and feel good liberal "black paternalism".
A black man from one of the poorest most violent country's in the world can see the problem for what it is. Yet, liberal "privileged whites" refuse to ever talk about it. Why? Because they don't want the label racist attached to them. So what do they do? They label everyone that disagrees with them a racist. Even if the person in disagreement is black! Everyone wins! The liberal "privileged whites" feel good for their paternalism. The Race Hustlers feel good because they can continue to fleece their own, and the government. The only losers are the blacks that are left with a bitter never ending resentment. Who foments that resentment?
Scoots could tell you.
Riffy
I'm not sure what you're getting at, I too have been in your shoes as with the scoots thing. That is also your experience. I've shared mine as well.
I used to ask people in AC, why it was okay for them to use the word nigger infront of me, but If I used it, it would be offensive. Just aking the question sent a few people off, and the only answer I ever really got was, that it was b/c I was white. I would say, me asking the question in itself, was my form of white guilt, since I cared enough to ask. I wasn't willing to accept it however. B/c I realized, that by keeping a deragatory word, in your race only, and using it to put dopwn your own people, was not going to help anyone. But the word is so ingrained in their culture, they need to have that internal debate, it ain't my shit. And the word itself, is pretty much meaningless to me, until someone calls me out 0n my race, then I suddenly feel the hatred behind it. And back to Scoots. I've met alot of people from the caribean, and i know that, I don't know enough to even pretend to base an entire culture on the people I've met from there. I can't even figure out this culture. I have no idea why black people are so pissed off, that as a community they literally rejoiced, at OJ being found not guilty. They even took this attitude towards Michael Jackson. you know they're going to back up Obama, and his preacher. All I know, is I don't know. I know so little about this, all I got is my experience, which is way different than yours. I'll tell you this, I bet those black dishwashers hated having a white boss, sounds like they hated working for you, and when someone tried getting ahead, they lashed out. Pretty fucked up, and def. I think we agree, it's probably the crux of the white guilt. although, what about the other side. Do these blacks in amnerica have any validity, any reason to feel persecuted. I don't many black men who haven't been jacked up by the police. black male 20's 30's around 5 fot 8 180 pounds. My friend Henry got jacked up the other day for fitting that description. I have no idea what that feels like. He laughed about it. He almost went to jail. you know why? Some white dude, he didn't know, in police custody was saying he knew Henry. They hels Herny for four hours based on that alone. A white suspect, simply tried getting the black dude blamed. I think we both hear alot of these stories. Yet I never walk in the shoes. White guilt/white denial. I don't claim to have solutions, firing Imus or welfare, attacking the wprds of a preacher... none of it makes this country better. I'm looking at what people are doing. Obama is an idealist. C'mon, before this story broke big time, it was about his lack of experience and questioning if he was a muslim. now suddenly he has 20 years of exp. and is a racist christian. And the people attacking
Obama for tihs racist shit, were attacking him before. The big story his detractors had, was no one was really going after him. And it was true. White guilt for sure. I still don't see how this big gotcha, is really that big. Words don't bother me that much. You can hate niggers, whites, fags ect... BUT, show me action, and then I'll be concerned enough to really take a side. preachers speaches, I've yet to see actual racism in action against whites. All I see is a black man, angry, and spewing off about stuff, that I can try to see his point. If you go from point A to point B, his logic makes sense from the black perspective. Granted, remember, i'm talking about the same perspective that give OJ a pass. It's extreme, but where's the action behind the preachers words. Are they keeping white people down? This is a partisan issue IMO, until someone who is on the right, starts looking at the people on the right, who have done the same things. This is just two sides of the same coin IMO. I don't support Obama, I'm not a Democrat. I'm a libertarian, this racial stuff, religous based is bullshit. I'm laughing b/c all I keep reading here is Obamas hateful religion. He's a christian. Aren't you a christian, isn't that the religion or did I miss something. no ne has yet to clarify, and say wwhat denomination, what particualr church. The way this is being discussed, even here, makes my point about religion and hatred, and I'm not the one who posted Obama is part of a religous hatred. |
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| glencar |
I don't have a link but the NY Times magazine ran an interview with Barry O'Bama's lil sister & when she was asked if he was a Christan, she said, yes, for the last 18 years. He's 46. What was he for the 1st 28 years? This guy might be an idealist to you but for me he's just another dirty pol. He gives good speeches, yes, but his program is lousy with tax & spending increases. I can't see him on the international stage. I like McCain anyway but I worry for my country if BO gets elected. |
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| monkey_man |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I don't need to venture beyond the stated beliefs of the church in question, it's library or its sermons...Again, you wish to limit this issue to Obama's pastors' pronouncements...and it's much bigger than that...As I have PROVEN...with facts...would you like to discuss that?...Or do you just want to throw race cards at people?
I just don't see what the end game is for these threads. The MS Media has covered the story, you have spent much time researching and providing examples of Wrights' statements. Any discussion of his political views are thrown out the window. By all accounts you don't agree with any of the potential presidential candidates. What's your stake in keeping this thread at the top of the pile? |
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| texile |
predictable,
Krauthammer has always had his pulse right on the arch-conservative drumbeat of paranoia and propaganda....
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| glencar |
"arch-conservative"? Like Goldwater? I haven't heard that term for decades. BTW I'm not a Krauthammer fan. Too Zionist for me. Plus, I hate typical white guys. |
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