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Topic: keith, open g tuning, and other thoughts Return to archive
03-28-03 12:42 PM
rocker Interested on some feedback on my thoughts.

First, let me say that i love keith, but i would like to see him play more in standard tuning, or tune his high E string, which is dropped to a D in the open G tuning, back to standard pitch.

Why so? I think that his solos in open G sound too redunant over the songs when he makes those wild bends. Many times it just doesnt work as well as a guitar in standard tuning would. Especially on those songs that are more melodic in nature. Case in point the open G works pretty well for solos on the more bluesy stuff like "Through and Through," but is annoying as hell on something like "Dont Stop." He could either go to standard tuning to correct it or he could just tune the high E up to standard pitch and it would sound so much better for solos.

With the boys using two guitars, and only messing with one of Keith's strings, you wouldnt lose any power that you get with an open G tuning if Keith were to opt for modifying the open G tuning.

Second, I think the tele sound sometimes sounds a little too thin. I d like to see keith use that Gibson hollowbody more. Its nasty and it sounds great on its only rock n roll and gimmie shelter. Keith used to play a lot more gibsons and in the early seventies and I though the tone was really hot. The sound was due in part to the gibson tone and propabably the Ampeg amps he played through, which I dont think he uses those much anymore either (could be wrong). Another reason to use the gibsons more is because Woody uses the strat so much.

Keith's standard tuning solos are really hot, case in point his solos on "when the whip comes down" for this tour.

Still love him, not tryin to tell him what to do, but does anybody else think that this might be a refreshing approach to tackle some of the old open G approaches.

Keith said he got bored with the stnadrd tuning in the sixties, perhaps playing in it more now would stir some new creative juices and approaches
03-28-03 03:41 PM
woodywoodpecker no Keith's open G tuning should remain! Let Ronnie do the solo's!
I do agree with Keefs solo's in open G" Terrible at the best of times. Ronnie's the man for the job (solo's anyway)

03-28-03 04:02 PM
Honky Tonker Open G doesn't lend itself to soloing as much as standard tuning does. Ronnie used to play a lot of Open E (Faces and slide work). The only problem with trying to play in open G is you always sound like Keith. Ask Rich Robinson!
03-28-03 05:25 PM
steel driving hammer I've always thought Ronnie should of dropped the Stratocaster a long time ago. The Stones are not a Strat band. They are a full rich Tele sounding band. But they do switch guitars alot for the same songs/diff tours. Like on Bridges, Satisfaction had 2 Teles, on the Licks tour, it has 0 Teles!

Good point on the Tele sounding too think opposed to that black hollow Gibson. This may sound foolish but Keith "looks" better playing the Tele. But yeah, I like the thickness of the Gibson sound very much. I know colors really doesn't mean much on the sound of guitars but Keith played a black Tele alot on the 81-82 tours which I think sounded ok and not too thin...





But no, Keith should stay away from standard tunning.

W/ his fingers (pretty beat up) the Open G still suits him better anyway...
03-28-03 06:11 PM
FTELE52 I too prefer the chunky rhythm sound of a humbucker equipped guitar for many numbers(ala Keith's ES355, a 335 or an LP) but it really depends on the song.

Open G on tele is the sound you for many of the classic Stones numbers. Single coil pickups give you better note definition than 'buckers do. Don't forget Keith played an open G tuned Strat on the opening number Brown Sugar on the Ladies & Gents video!

I play my ES335 open tuned for numbers like SFM, All Down the Line, CYHMK and it gives you more of that sound associated with Keith's rhythm work of the early '70's...a ballsier sound but not too distorted.

You can play lead in open G, but it does take more practice to transpose the notes. I'll be doing just that next Sat night on CYHMK.

03-28-03 10:54 PM
steel driving hammer Open G is not really meant for lead/solo is it?

Open G is just the foundation/rhythm.

Most lead/solo's are played in standard tunning for the higher notes, like Ronnie.

Ronnie is a fantastic lead guitarist, Keith is a MASTER of rhythm, Charlie is the king of steady, and Mick is the Stud Muffin who loves it all!

The thing that really gets me is, after all these tours, after all this time, the Stones are still seeking new ways of making old songs better. Like trying out different guitars for the same songs they've played for almost half a century and still trying to make it sound even better! God bless them.







STONES YOU BASTARD!!!



Fuck the Beatles!



03-29-03 12:42 AM
Cracker2550 Okay, first of all, if I'm not mistaken (which I may be) Thru and Thru is done in standard so there goes that point right there. Next, Keith mostly plays rythem on Don't Stop with Ronnie playing a lead in standard. Without open g you wouldn't have half of the Stones songs today. Keith and open g are one and one. He's the best at rythem guitar which is what he likes to play and open g is a wonderful tuning to play an awesome rythem on.
03-29-03 01:01 AM
beer Keith does the solo in Honky Tonk Women in Open G
03-29-03 07:56 AM
Honky Tonker Some of Keith's teles have a humbucker placed in the neck position. This combined with the single coil give him some of that unique sound.
03-29-03 07:48 PM
ladyjjane The Black Tele Keith used all the time in 1981/82 is a 72 custom. He bought it in New Oleans while on tour. I love that guitar and have had my eyes open for it for years. It finally showed up again with Keith on his Rolling Stone cover from last fall. I wish he would bring it back live again. He looks great playing it. The guitar I really wish he would play more is the 1959 Les Paul Junior, a double cutaway in TV yellow. What a sound! He uses it on Rambler on this tour. He also has a Les Paul Jr. single cutaway in sunburst that he used some in the 90's. Very nice guitar also. Too many blond tele's for me but hey i'm not really complaining. The sunburst one he has is a 67'. No humbucker and beat to shit. I think he uses that one on Happy this time around which is a change from earlier tours. Any and all of the guitars mentioned in this tread are better then those Music Mans from the eighties. I never liked those.
03-30-03 07:37 AM
Cardinal Fang Hello !

As a "guitar expert", allow me to address your question. If I am understanding you correctly your complaint is that:

1 - Keith's soloing on an open G string is not advancing beyond the "B" string and that you would like to see him incorporate the "E" string into the box scales that Keith abuses ?

2 - Keith's sound is too "thin" for your tastes and you would like to see him go back to the Gibson Humbucker tone ?

My responses to this would be:

1 - Keith does NOT need to retune the 1st string back up to "E". He can continue to play in an open G tuning. There is NOTHING stopping Keith from soloing in that tuning on the "D" string. All he has to do is mentally adjust 2 steps up for the solo. The fact that 99 percent of the time he does NOT would IMO indicate that he is too set in his ways and does NOT want to make the mental adjustment of compensating 2 steps on the "E" string. (After all he is almost 60 years old and sort of set in his ways) There is NOTHING stopping him from soloing as he would in standard tuning other than the lack of the low "E" string which rarely if EVER matters in a Keith Richards guitar solo.

2 - As somebody else already pointed out, Keith has Telecasters that have a Gibson Humbucker pickup in the neck position. He can (and has) continue to play his Tele's with that setup in the "Neck" position and get the EXACT SAME sound (pickup wise) from his modified Telecasters.

SDH's comment of "Stop playing with a Strat" makes me LAUGH MY FUCKING ASS OFF !! (It ain't gonna happen) Strats and Teles are BOTH single coil pickup guitars. (Still aren't practicing are you Tony ?)

I understand the original question but Keith really COULD solo fully (using the 1st string) IF he REALLY wanted to. I myself had to relearn the solo for CYHMK on an open G. For years I played it on a standard tuning and was forced to relearn it in open G. Because of the open G tuning, I could NOT fall back on my tried and true standard tuning licks. In other words, I had to stop being lazy and THINK about the solo for a change. IMO Keith has no desire to do so at this stage of his career. I mean after all, you all will STILL go out and buy a ticket to see him right ?

That's what I thought. He's not really going to work any harder than he has to. It's human nature. Especially after doing the gig for FORTY YEARS.

I agree with you that Keith has taken his open "G" tuned solos about as far as he can take them. Of course when Keith solos in open G he is really only using the 3 middle strings.

I hope you took the time to read my thoughts to your question ?

Now I Gotta Bail.

Later, Cardinal Fang
03-30-03 08:21 AM
steel driving hammer "(Still aren't practicing are you Tony ?)"

;^) I never took a lesson and never read a chord book.

It's just a flick of the wrist, twist of the mind, thats all it is...

How much? 99...

Nice to hear your input on this, but some of it is hard to understand.

All the way baby all the way.

03-30-03 05:26 PM
Saint Sway to have Keith stop playing in open G would be like asking him to leave the band. Its his signature sound. Whats not to love about it?

Visits since January 9, 2003 - 10:46 PM EST