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| Moonisup |
you should read it again
if you read it, you saw I am also PRO war,
but I am afraid what would happen after that, if they really try to change a culture, that can't be done, we Europeans tried that already, 5 times in the dark ages, and it didn't work, before that, it was tried by the greeks, and further back by every culture that had the power. The humans don't change, just the weapons.
That is wats bothering me,
you said that the russians liberated holland, buy a book about world war 2 read, and come back, and say it again
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| Jacques |
Hi all
you know I don't like these kind of threads (politics, war, against war of for the war...)
I'am a French guy, and I like to share opinions about a lot of things.
I do like this website (Thanks Unholy Trinity) because we like to share the same passion about The Rolling Stones. They are English boys , you are American girls or boys, you are from the Netherlands, Norway, Belgium, Japan or everywhere, I do like it, but what is important in the origin? What is important is to have the same passion. Of course having different point of view (hope we always may have different points of view, that is so important) is a quite important way of life.
I read a lot of good and bad things about France. Sorry but we don't only have good wine, cheese, nice girls...we have also good lanscapes, history, girls, sense of humour, loving feelings, good sanes....and also good men ...
And I think we like the people, exhanging with them, helping them.
So we also have a lot of defaults as anybody has in the world, but even if we live with a "beret" (don't know the English word) and bread and wine, we like all people in the world and would like to be happy together, without wars and hateness.
Sorry, I don't want to have a political discuss. Thanks for for good and bad things written in there, always good to listen and to go in progress.
What is the right way ? Good contact we get on this board (and I like it), and sharing words about our passion .
Sorry for my pour Enghish writing, hope you understand what I wanted to say and always wishing to have different points of view.
But we're at once here to speak about the Rolling Stones
Sorry again.
Et Bravo � Jaxx, Gerardo et Gazza et � tous. (Bravo to Jaxx, Gerardo and Gazza ad to all of you).
Amicalement � tous |
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| glencar |
Jacques, I don't think most Americans (99.9%) have a dislike for the French people. It's your government that angers us. And yes, your propensity for running when the heat is on. But no one denies the nice things the French have given us. I'm sure many Americans can find some French in their lineage.
Mathjizs, you're a jerk & I'm not responding to your BS after this. We're all well aware that other countries have had horrible events. I'm still mourning that your town has you around. It Must Be Hell. But anyhoo most of us have the good taste not to MAKE FUN of those catastrophes. You apparently lack that maturity. Your burning flag at your website is an indication. You're a jerk & I realize that this sort of flame baiting will occur on this sort of topic but you are simply a must to avoid. So go away, creep... |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Man, this stuff is getting ugly.
I've been to France many many times. I used to ride the train there while stationed in Germany. I found the country quite lovely...except Paris, I really disliked Paris...except for the Louvre. That was fantastic. I should have just stayed in there.
Everywhere else though...was wonderful. Great history, great culture, great food, great drink, great people. I treasure every moment that I spent in France...except for that awful 2 days in Paris.
I also want to say that the French people that we have on this board are really cool folks. I like them all. In fact, I've sent 3 packages of music to France since the war started. I really hope that they understand that in these discussions, I'm refering to their gov't, and not them. I honestly like the French people. Don't care much for Parisians though.
You know, just because some of us from the USA happen to support our gov't, doesn't make us "loudmouthed jerks". I am proud to show my patriotism. Patriotism is NOT a bad thing, IMO. You have to understand, I served in the U.S. Army. Even though I am no longer in the service, and haven't been for close to 15 years, those people out in the Iraqi desert are my brothers and sisters. How can I NOT support them? I believe that what is happening is for the best in the long run. This does not make me a puppet, or a propaganda dupe. I have studied many different points of view on this subject. I came to my opinion after much thought and consideration. It is not some gut reaction. What I find offensive is that some of you choose to brand all of us who support the effort of our troops in Iraq, with the same "Bush Boys" brush. And it simply isn't true.
If you want to call me stupid because I support my brothers and sisters in the Iraqi War...so be it. I have my opinion, I have many reasons for that opinion, I will defend my opinion. If that makes me a loudmouthed jerk, well, that is fine with me. I've been called much worse. |
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| Stonesthrow |
I got an A in a 7th grade project about France. I also was rather impressed by a visit to the Louvre. Our hotel near the Eiffel Tower was also nice with a very accommodating staff. However, I am not a fan of French politics. Je suis an Americain.
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
Honky Tonk Man wrote:
And just where are you getting this bullshit from? You came to this conclusion from just two visits there?
Im not really attacking you, i think your a fine poster most of the time ,but i feel you have no grounds to make that statement above
Alex
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
But I do have sources - I didn't just go there and say "Ah! France, land of labour problems!" I was told that information by the French people I met there, who admitted it freely. Unemployment was at 11% when I was there. The metro was on strike the first time, the museums the second time with the metro to follow next week. The cab driver (the same one who wouldn't let me in unless I promised I didn't like Bush) I had to the airport who I talked to freely admitted that his country had its own fair share of problems, and so did a lot of other folks I talked to. Strikes were common occurances. Unemployment was a problem. Chirac was ridiculed yet voted for, and somehow under his nose someone in his government sold parts to Iraq. (See Safire's "The French Connection".)
I don't know. I haven't been there in two years. Maybe it's miraculously changed. Maybe not. But I didn't just pull those facts out of "general State Department fears about France!"
I did see a wonderful e-mailed traveler's guide to France about a year ago. I can't remember most of it, except "You will hear the French talk a lot about Charles DuGalle, who was once a president and is now an airport."
-tSYX --- C'est la vie, say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell... |
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| TheSavageYoungXyzzy |
quote:
Monkey Woman wrote:
What I don't like about this topic 
- gratuitous insults
- endless parrotting of hateful propaganda
- irresponsible calls to violence (if some fuck-up shoots a French tourist in the States, how would all the French bashers feel with themselves?)
Hey MW, as far as I can tell, there hasn't been much of that this thread. It's been more fighting between each other then at the French!
I have no beef with France. Granted, I generally don't eat France very often.
-tSYX --- Mixing them metaphors good, Ronnie! |
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| Mathijs |
Glencar wrote:
>But anyhoo most of us have the good taste not to MAKE FUN >of those catastrophes. You apparently lack that maturity. >Your burning flag at your website is an indication.
First, you mistake me for someone else. I don't have a burning flag on my website, never had one and never will. Second, I do no "hate" America or Americans (in fact it is one of the best countries to visit) and I do not make fun about something so horrible as 911. BUT -big BUT- I am very critical of America's politics -foreign politics, the right to bear arms, death penelaty, social structure and security, and I am not afraid to say so. I am also critical on the way America has reacted to 911. I feel that the war in Iraq is directly linked to 911, and I think that is wrong.
Last, I think I am quite a nice and even person. But there's just some people on this board that really make my blood boil, like this Gypsymofo guy. I also think that most of the American visitors of this board aren't general representitives of the US. I do feel that American Stones fans are more conservative, patriotic and right-winged than average. Maybe this idea is totally wrong, but I sense it.
Mathijs
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| marcus aurelianus |
Mathijs,
What you say is very sensible . I agree with 98�/� with what you have said .Cleverly said indeed .
Having said that , I do not understand why , as a European you are pro-war ( I think you forget the geopolitical and geostrategical point of view : the LONG RUN ). Do not forget the REAL AIMS of the war , please .THe REAL REASONS. They are all BUT humanitarian . You know that, don't you ?
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| glencar |
Well, since you posted in aa non-flaming way, I'll respond. First, if you aren't the one with the burning flag, I apologize. Does anyone else out there recall the burning flag on someone's CD trade page? Second, you did make fun of 9-11 with that little jibe at Gypsymofo. Third, US domestic politics are subject to anyone's criticism around the world but don't go squawking like a chicken next time I inject myself into some Dutch political situation. Remember that. As for the right-wingedness of Stones fans, who cares? We're generally not discussing US domestic policy here. Overall, Americans are more conservative than Euros. And let me reiterate that making light of an attack on America (which 9-11 was) is the wrong thing to do in any venue. If you disagree with gypsymofo, that's fine. You're wrong about him & don't use those feelings to insult our war dead. |
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
Mathijs wrote:
BUT -big BUT- I am very critical of America's politics -foreign politics, the right to bear arms, death penalty, social structure and security, and I am not afraid to say so. I am also critical on the way America has reacted to 911. I feel that the war in Iraq is directly linked to 911, and I think that is wrong.
Well stated. I agree with every point you mentioned here. I also agree that gypsymofo sets my teeth on edge.
[quote]Mathijs wrote:
I also think that most of the American visitors of this board aren't general representitives of the US. I do feel that American Stones fans are more conservative, patriotic and right-winged than average. Maybe this idea is totally wrong, but I sense it.
[quote]
Actually you might have that part backwards. Although there is a deep division over the war which grows deeper every day, the opinions publicly stated here in the USA are generally of the type heard here. My views - which mirror yours - are definitely in the minority. However, I don't think the part about Stones fans is necessarily accurate. For SOME reason, and I have no idea why, all the right-wingers gravitated here, and the left-wingers feel more at home at Keno's board. (As far as I can tell, that split has NOTHING to do with the feelings or beliefs of the hosts of this site, who probably wish everyone would go somewhere else to discharge their political payloads.)This arbitrary political centrifuge makes it look like most American Stones fans are in favor of the war. I don't think the political complexion of this site reflects anything beyond what it is - the beliefs of a small group of loud people. |
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| nankerphelge |
C'mon FPM -- we defend our beliefs and somehow that is loud? Free Speech as long as we're quiet about it?? Please. No louder than anyone on the opposite side of the issue! Last I checked we neo nazis haven't blocked 5th Ave and DC with protests.
Although I don't agree with your politics, I've always admired your talent for spirited and persuasive debate. You can do a hell of a lot better than unfounded stereotypical attacks on people merely because they hold a different view than your own.
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| Moonisup |
we are all humans who have their differencens
hahahaha and glencar, don't go into our government hahaha, that's one big mess too, the last year, hahahahhahahahahahah
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| Honky Tonk Man |
tSYX, im sorry. It was one of those days!
Alex |
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| parmeda |
quote:
TheSavageYoungXyzzy wrote:
Hey MW, as far as I can tell, there hasn't been much of that this thread. It's been more fighting between each other then at the French!
You are a very observant, wise young man...
And while I have the utmost respect for everyone on this board, one thing keeps popping to the forefront of my thoughts each time someone adds their opinion to this post. I can't put it to any of you any better than this...
Taken from the words of Mack Rice & Luther Ingram, and belted out by "Pops", Cleotha, Yvonne & Mavis Staples, in a way that no one can ever duplicate...
___________________________
"RESPECT YOURSELF"
If you disrespect everybody that you run into
How in the world do you think anybody's s'posed to respect you?
If you don't give a heck 'bout the man with the Bible in his hand
Just get out the way, and let the gentleman do his thing
You the kind of gentleman that want everything your way
Take the sheet off your face, boy, it's a brand new day
Respect yourself, respect yourself
If you don't respect yourself
Ain't nobody gonna give a good cahoots
Respect yourself, respect yourself
If you're walkin� �round thinkin� that the world owes you something cause you're here
You goin� out the world backwards like you did when you first come here
Keep talkin� �bout the president won't stop air pollution
Put your hand o�er your mouth when you cough, that'll help the solution
You cuss around women but you don't even know their names
Then you're dumb enough to think that'll make you a big ol' man
Respect yourself, respect yourself
If you don't respect yourself
Ain't nobody gonna give a good cahoot
Respect yourself, respect yourself
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| FPM C10 |
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
C'mon FPM -- we defend our beliefs and somehow that is loud? Free Speech as long as we're quiet about it?? Please.
[quote]
Yes, you're right. In the interest of being succinct I stooped to stereotyping. I don't recall you going around the bend while stating your case, as befits a barrister. I was thinking more of the unbelievable ugliness of gypsymofo's recent Fosters-fueled attacks, my brother SS's outstanding thoughts that "America has the biggest cock" so we can do as we damn well please, Fiji Jim's jingoistic jive...that sort of shit. Loud, obnoxious, arrogant explanations why the majority of the world's population is NOT in our "coalition".
[quote]
No louder than anyone on the opposite side of the issue! Last I checked we neo nazis haven't blocked 5th Ave and DC with protests.
[quote]
Last time I looked you had about a half million people arguing your side of the case in the loudest possible manner, by blowing shit up. War for Peace! And anyway, I don't recall making any favorable statements about the disruption of society favored by anti-war protesters. I think Stones message boards are the proper forum for that sort of thing.
[quote]
[quote]
You can do a hell of a lot better than unfounded stereotypical attacks on people merely because they hold a different view than your own.
Stereotypical perhaps, but certainly not unfounded. I was going to dredge through all of the war posts to dispute the "unfounded" part, but you read 'em too. If my statements seem like "attacks", I apologise. |
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| glencar |
Rik, now you know how we feel when someone attacks our internal government policies. It's like family: we can attack each other mercilessly but as soon as an outsider does it, be careful!
FPM, I don't think the "loudness" is exclusively on one side or the other. As for Keno's board, it got ifested with people I didn't know or care to know. I never knew what their politics were nor did I even think about it. They just seemed like juveniles. |
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| nankerphelge |
FPM -- I went and had beers for lunch and felt bad that I had singled you out. You are right, there have been plenty of barbs flying from both sides of the issue. Maybe I'm guilty of it too -- even tho I've tried to remain somewhat objective.
You are my C10 brother -- you know I respect your opinions and your ability to articulate them even if I don't agree with all that you say. I let the "war monger" lable roll off my shoulders a couple of weeks ago. The "loud" comment struck a nerve today. Perhaps a friendly PM would have been a better course. Please don't let this interfere with our getting ripped together at the next summit!! |
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| FPM C10 |
TIME OUT!
My BROTHER!
I wouldn't ever open my big mouth if I thought for a second that anything we talk about - even life and death - would interfere with our friendship. Conversely, anything you say (that does not slander me sainted mither) will have no effect on the genuine joy I feel each time we meet.
I think that's one of the few things about getting older that is genuinely good. When I was younger and would get riled up about something, I was capable of holding a grudge for years. No more.
Even though SS and I hold widely divergent opinions on politics, when we get together in real life there is no animosity - far from it! The mellow mid-life monkey can agree to disagree.
"warmonger" means "one who urges war" which is not entirely inaccurate. I never called anyone a "neo-nazi". At the same time I do not shrink from calling myself any of the epithets that apply - pinko commie peacenik etc. Having come of age in the Nixon/Agnew era I would even proudly bear the title "nattering nabob of negativism".
Although I was being funny when I said Stones message boards are the proper place for protest, there IS something GOOD about the medium which diffuses much potential nastiness. I think we should agree that when we all meet face-to-face at the next summit, and there's booze involved, it might be best to make politics off-limits.
OK, TIME IN...
warmonger.
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| Joey |
<--------- " The Bigger they are , the harder they fall ! " ( Ho Chi Minh to LBJ , 1964 )
Damn Straight little buddy .
I got news for all of you , even a " Rat " will fight when backed up into a corner ......and don't think for a second Iran or Syria will never get involved in this thing -- Jesus Christ himself can't control one of these " Wars of National Liberation " ( Thank You Robert S. McNamara ) .
" The American People don't have the stomach for guerrilla ( Sic ) type Warfare " ( Uncle Ho again to LBJ ) .
JACKY BOY ! |
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| glencar |
Joey, you actually bring up a good point. No one should expect the wacky Iraqis to just surrender en masse. However! We have captured over 2/3 of the country & it really hasn't taken too much out of us. I hope & pray that the rest will be easy although I know it won't be.
FPM, I disagree with you politically yet I agree about the part about not holding grudges as one gets older. There's nothing sadder than an old man nursing grudges. |
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| icydanger |
france....
joey, frozen ball there oooo
reality check point
france after julius caesarius
Pr-Iss
the house of Isis some say, because in those times the temples of Isis went up to france (later dynasties?) BC1000?
before the fall of jerusalem and the beginning of zionnism
after the times of Mohammed (swt) the franks, germans had to resit invasion from byzance.
wars are
a religion made concept,
a developpement programme
the erradication of a regime
a complex sway
Charlemagne,,, school
Montaigne
Descartes
Moli�re
Robespierre
Rousseau
Lamartine
La Fontaine
and on and on
Baudelaire
de Nerval
Andr� Breton Malraux
maupassant zola balzac
flaubert voltaire pascal
matisse gauguin renoir monet manet pissaro courbet degas redon braque and so on
I am not from france but i think it has great culture of traditions.
History
Napoleon-Egyptology-
The Louvres is a fine example.
yes... each country in europe has its own heroes
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| littleredrooster |
WOW!
Was THAT DEEP!!
I feel the ICY CHILL!! |
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| MarthaMyDear |
Pepe LePew... lol........................................ :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P :P   
*** Martha *** |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
Maybe I should clarify myself. If Flea misunderstood me...the rest of you probably did as well.
When I said that the USA has the "biggest dick", I was pointing out a matter of fact. It is a simple reality. I'm not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong...it's just the way it is.
Look at history. The country with the biggest dick got to make the rules. And that is what is happening now.
I said it more as an observation than anything else. It's just the way of the world. I didn't make it that way. It's been that way since the man started writing stuff on cave walls. I was just pointing it out. |
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| FPM C10 |
No clarification is necessary, my big-dicked brother. Everyone knew what you meant. Just SAYING it in an international forum IS arrogance, intentional or not. Now you saying it is no big deal, except that it is emblematic of the way America comports itself. In real life, if you were enough of a lout to talk like that, your friends would just shake their heads and laugh. If you walk into a bar in a strange neighborhood and announce you have the biggest dick and yer callin' the shots from here on in, even people who might ordinarily wanna buy you a drink are gonna end up wanting to hit you over the head with a lead pipe when your back's turned. True or not, it breeds contempt and the desire to take that loudmouth OUT.
And all those big-dicked empires of the past you mentioned? They're all DUST now. Taken out by people who were jealous of their endowment, or just tired of hearing about it.
WE HAVE INVADED A FOREIGN COUNTRY TO "LIBERATE" IT EVEN THOUGH THE POPULATION AND THE REST OF THE WORLD DOESN'T WANT US TO.
We are not the good guys here. |
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| FPM C10 |
imho, of course! |
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| BILL PERKS |
THE FRENCH INVENTED THE WORD COWARDICE.THEY KEPT IRA EINHORN FOR 3 YEARS WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ROTTING IN PRISON.PARIS IS A PIGEON FILLED SHIHOLE.IF IT WASNT FOR AMERICA THEY WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN TODAY. |
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| Sir Stonesalot |
>Just SAYING it in an international forum IS arrogance, intentional or not.<
Whaaaaaaaa???
Since when is pointing out truth and reality arrogance?
I think it is arrogant to give the rest of the world so little credit....to think them so petty and jealous. I really believe, deep in my heart, that this will work out. You'll see. When Hussien is gone, the Iraqi people will rejoice. They'll be dancing in the streets. Sure, I agree, this all looks bad now....but before we are condemned to eternal hell....let's see what the end result is. Patience is a virtue.
There will be an end to this conflict. The situation will resolve. I just think that before judgement is passed on the USA and her Allies, we should see what the end result is.
And as for the USA ending up just like all the other great empires with big dicks...I'm sure we will fall eventually too. That also is the lesson of history. But before we do, we should try to make the world a better place. A safer place. A place for freedom. It is a noble effort, and if we fall while trying, then so be it. At least we had the courage to try. |
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| littleredrooster |
Yeah !
I do agree, big dicks rule, since time began!
In the future, China has the most dicks and will soon be vying for top dick, but NOT on my watch!
Chili dogs all around! |
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