| March 23rd, 2005 08:45 AM |
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| BILL PERKS |
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THEY ARE CHANGING THE STADIUMS FROM FOOTBALL TO BASEBALL,WHICH ABOUT 20-25,000 LESS SEATS IN THEM..MOST NEW US BASEBALL PARKS HAVE BETWEEN 35-50,000 SEATS AS OPPOSED TO FOOTBALL WHICH HOLD 65,000+.
IAN BILLEN IS AMERICAN?
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| March 23rd, 2005 08:53 AM |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
BILL PERKS wrote:
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THEY ARE CHANGING THE STADIUMS FROM FOOTBALL TO BASEBALL,WHICH ABOUT 20-25,000 LESS SEATS IN THEM..MOST NEW US BASEBALL PARKS HAVE BETWEEN 35-50,000 SEATS AS OPPOSED TO FOOTBALL WHICH HOLD 65,000+.
IAN BILLEN IS AMERICAN?
Hi Perks no more idiot list why???why??? the pain of love?? 
btw the Stones should only play arenas! an Arena show is magic,no fireworks no bullshit !!
Bercy on last tour was great, and please be sincere my friends: the best four flicks dvd is the MSG one !!
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| March 23rd, 2005 10:44 AM |
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| Gazza |
only arenas, theatres and outdoor sheds. No stadiums or fields.
My one remaining wish for the Stones is that they get away from this "album followed by as big a mega-tour as possible followed by a long silence" cycle which has ruled the way that they work for the last three decades.
Its quite clear from recent years that they're more interested in live performance than making records. Fair enough. Make a record when they can but dont sit around on their holes for two or three years waiting for the "incoming" on the antenna.
Take a leaf out of Dylan's book and just get out and play. Rediscover their great back catalogue. Most of which they never play. Reinvent their songs and breathe new life into them through live performance. Screw the ludicrous and demeaning obsession with being top of the "highest grossing live act" list each year to the exclusion of all else. Play songs that THEY like playing, not what is expected of them by the 1-album-in-my-collection pseudo fans who see them as just another 'legend' that they have to catch in concert before they die and who, because theyve paid a week's wages for a crap seat demand to hear the only 12-15 songs that they know. Prove that "its only rock n roll" and charge their fans affordable prices while they're at it. (and yeah, it can be done so that the real fans get tickets, before anyone asks)
No one expects them to play 100-120 shows a year. They're in their 60's. The health of some band members has caused concern in the last year or two. They have families. They have other things they want to do aside from spend months on the road.
However. Its quite clear they still all enjoy playing. But it doesnt have to be this massive musical multi-national machine that cranks into action every 3 years or so, takes about a year or two to plan ahead and then, when the job is done and the millions of dollars which they'll never spend is counted, gets put into cold storage until the next time.
Do what Dylan does. What The Dead do, even if its to a lesser extent. Go on the road for about a month or so, four times a year. Every year. Say, 15-20 shows at a time. It doesnt take ages to rehearse a show like that if you're playing regularly LIKE A REAL BAND DOES. Play random setlists of songs they WANT to play to fans who wont moan because they didnt play "Miss You" of "Satisfaction" for the millionth time. They might enjoy it and wont be on the road long enough to get bored. It also leaves them plenty of time the rest of the year to enjoy their leisure activities, their families or other side projects.
Have some kind of loose schedule where, say, in one year, they could do two tours in North America, one to Europe and one to, say Australia and Japan. The following year do something similar except play South America or somewhere else instead of Japan/Oz, but play a lot of places in Europe or North America that they'd missed out the first year. Basically, everyone would get a great chance to see the Stones every two years at worst. Every year if they're prepared to travel a bit.
The Stones still have time to get away from the perception of being a Vegas act only concerned about the grosses and get back to being a rock n roll band. It would be a great way to be remembered before they eventually walk into the sunset.
[Edited by Gazza] |
| March 23rd, 2005 11:11 AM |
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| glencar |
I don't mind the stadium shows per se but they should lower the prices accordingly. They'll still amke a shitload on T-shirts & other paraphenalia. |
| March 23rd, 2005 11:40 AM |
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| Mel Belli |
quote:
Gazza wrote:
only arenas, theatres and outdoor sheds. No stadiums or fields.
My one remaining wish for the Stones is that they get away from this "album followed by as big a mega-tour as possible followed by a long silence" cycle which has ruled the way that they work for the last three decades.
Its quite clear from recent years that they're more interested in live performance than making records. Fair enough. Make a record when they can but dont sit around on their holes for two or three years waiting for the "incoming" on the antenna.
Take a leaf out of Dylan's book and just get out and play. Rediscover their great back catalogue. Most of which they never play. Reinvent their songs and breathe new life into them through live performance. Screw the ludicrous and demeaning obsession with being top of the "highest grossing live act" list each year to the exclusion of all else. Play songs that THEY like playing, not what is expected of them by the 1-album-in-my-collection pseudo fans who see them as just another 'legend' that they have to catch in concert before they die and who, because theyve paid a week's wages for a crap seat demand to hear the only 12-15 songs that they know. Prove that "its only rock n roll" and charge their fans affordable prices while they're at it. (and yeah, it can be done so that the real fans get tickets, before anyone asks)
No one expects them to play 100-120 shows a year. They're in their 60's. The health of some band members has caused concern in the last year or two. They have families. They have other things they want to do aside from spend months on the road.
However. Its quite clear they still all enjoy playing. But it doesnt have to be this massive musical multi-national machine that cranks into action every 3 years or so, takes about a year or two to plan ahead and then, when the job is done and the millions of dollars which they'll never spend is counted, gets put into cold storage until the next time.
Do what Dylan does. What The Dead do, even if its to a lesser extent. Go on the road for about a month or so, four times a year. Every year. Say, 15-20 shows at a time. It doesnt take ages to rehearse a show like that if you're playing regularly LIKE A REAL BAND DOES. Play random setlists of songs they WANT to play to fans who wont moan because they didnt play "Miss You" of "Satisfaction" for the millionth time. They might enjoy it and wont be on the road long enough to get bored. It also leaves them plenty of time the rest of the year to enjoy their leisure activities, their families or other side projects.
Have some kind of loose schedule where, say, in one year, they could do two tours in North America, one to Europe and one to, say Australia and Japan. The following year do something similar except play South America or somewhere else instead of Japan/Oz, but play a lot of places in Europe or North America that they'd missed out the first year. Basically, everyone would get a great chance to see the Stones every two years at worst. Every year if they're prepared to travel a bit.
The Stones still have time to get away from the perception of being a Vegas act only concerned about the grosses and get back to being a rock n roll band. It would be a great way to be remembered before they eventually walk into the sunset.
[Edited by Gazza]
This entire post is music to my ears. Gazza, there's one reason why they don't adopt a working lifestyle like the one you describe. It's not laziness, because when they do spring into action, I think they work incredibly hard. The reason is: GREED.
For me, one of the most telling signs that the Stones had entered a new, hypercorporatized era is when I heard Mick say the album covers were leftover images from the brainstorming sessions for T-shirts and stage design. One might say this is a way to holistically package a tour and album. I say it sounds like a consumer product ad campaign.
I've got no beef with consumer capitalism per se. But there's no earthly reason why a rock 'n' roll tour must be so tightly manipulated from top to bottom. The motive behind it, therefore, can't be artistic gratification (I think Mick and Charlie do derive a sense of sense of satisfaction from that side of the business) but first and foremost to maximize profit.
The Cohlian way of thinking drives *everything* they do - from when they announce the tour to the increasingly constricted variety of cities they play to how much they charge.
They simply do not admit of any middle ground in the way they do things anymore. It's either Barnum & Bailey or years in pasture. And that's why they play to fewer and fewer fans each tour. |
| March 23rd, 2005 03:43 PM |
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| IanBillen |
[quote]Gazza wrote:
IanBillen wrote:
>I seen them on both the arena and stadium shows last time out and The Giants stadium show was awesome!
didnt know you were at that one. Thanks to the great Scope we had a fun tailgate party at that show. An enjoyable evening. I thought personally that the show was the weakest of the three stadium gigs I saw (Anaheim and Twickenham I being the others) by some distance. A question of taste, I suppose. It wasnt a patch on the MSG show two nights previously.
>Cleveland's arena show was great. Pittsburgh's arena show was not as well as the first two but was still very good.
To my ears, Cleveland was one of the best "non theatre" shows of the entire tour.
>I don't know what folks got against The Stones in the stadium these days Geeze... They are The Rolling Stones. Their name says "spectacle" written all over it.
Thats the point. Its spectacle and theyve done it probably better than anyone else and theyve done it to death. It's old. It's more spectacle than substance. The larger the show, the more important the 'event' becomes than the music. The more they mug and the less they play. And the more lame the setlists.
> When you see them in a stadium that is exactly what you get with a much bigger production than an arena or club venue.
Nonsense. There's no comparison. In a stadium for most of the audience, youre watching something on a TV screen. I cant believe anyone who has seen the Stones PLAY up close and personal in a theatre would compare a seat 70 yards away in a stadium with that experience. I refer back to my previous remark about them concentrating more on a spectacle in a large venue than actually playing. In a theatre they barely have to worry for a second about "production". Pure rock n roll. A stadium show is NEVER that because it relies too much on other factors that aren't musically-related.
>I love seeing the Stones in a huge open air stadium with that mammouth stage and them being the spectacle that they are. What a rush.
I've enjoyed it too, when there was no alternative. I think that to charge huge prices to see a stadium show on a video screen is crap, though.
>I also love the more intimate arena gigs for the true picture of their sound and a little bit better view of what they are all about on that particular tour.
Each type of Stones gig has a purpose.
well,,yeah, although the main purpose for us is entertainment. Its just on a somewhat different level according to the size of the venue.
>If this was the eighties folks would be complaining if they didn't do stadium shows and would wonder what the hell is going on with them.
personally, I've always maintained that the smaller the venue the better the show. Others may prefer the spectacle. Each to their own. In my eyes, playing more and more smaller shows allowed the Stones to re-discover themselves as a band and as musicians. They re-wrote the book as a stadium act years ago. No need to re-tread the same path every tour. And play the same bloody songs too.
_________________________________________________________________________________
Gazza,
Greetings Sir. I thought you were tiffy about that thread about both of us being "bottom feeders" and "cannibals". It was surely just a joke. I thought you'd actually laugh at it as I did.
As for Giants in New Jersey.
That was my vacation in 2002. To stay in Manhattan for the weekend and see The Stones in Jersey. I didn't know anything about the tailgate party or I would of dropped in for a glass a beer. I was dead center on the first level up. Gazza, I wrote a big review when I got home here I believe. That's why when you say I have only been registered a year I wonder? I always used the same name and if I didn't It would of been close to this one.
Don't Stop sounded the best at Giant's.
And as for Cleveland yes the sound was fuckin GREAT. Wow. The Stones had Punch this tour. Cant you Hear Me knocking in Cleveland was fantastic. Ronnie sounded great.
By the way you posted "non-sense" referring to my earlier post. I think I put it wrong or you took it wrong. I just meant a Stadium has a huge production no matter what the event and with A Stones concert things are great there with all that going on.
Bill Perks:
YES I AM AMERICAN I AM IN THE USA
(see I spoke your language)
Ian
[Edited by IanBillen] |
| March 23rd, 2005 04:03 PM |
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| T&A |
nice one, Gazza. But, you and I know in our heart of hearts this ain't ever a-gonna 'appen. |
| March 23rd, 2005 08:03 PM |
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| Bob Tamp |
Gazza has it right. I remember bitching before the last tour that the stadium shit had become so cliche.
Even starting the tours in the U.S, heading to Japan, ending in Europe has become too predictable. They really need to shake things up a bit with this tour and album. |
| March 23rd, 2005 08:24 PM |
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| Gazza |
>Gazza,
Greetings Sir. I thought you were tiffy about that thread about both of us being "bottom feeders" and "cannibals". It was surely just a joke. I thought you'd actually laugh at it as I did.
God, of course I wasnt tiffy, Ian. I don't do tiffs. Only with women with PMS. Completely taken in the spirit it was intended. No worries there, mate.
>As for Giants in New Jersey.
That was my vacation in 2002. To stay in Manhattan for the weekend and see The Stones in Jersey. I didn't know anything about the tailgate party or I would of dropped in for a glass a beer. I was dead center on the first level up. Gazza, I wrote a big review when I got home here I believe. That's why when you say I have only been registered a year I wonder? I always used the same name and if I didn't It would of been close to this one.
maybe there was a gap between "Ian" and "Billen" or something. Too long ago to recall. Anyway, too bad you werent there. We had a get together at a bar en route to the Madison Square Garden show and then met up again at Giants two days later. It was well publicised on here and open to anyone. Hopefully you'll make it to one of the pre-show bashes this time around. I'd imagine there will be something arranged for New York and Chicago, at least...as you're in Ohio I guess you're about halfway between both. Not sure if I'll be over this year, but I'd love to do both cities as I did NY and LA a month apart last time. Theres no way I can do two trips however this time however, if I do one its more likely to be New York.
>Don't Stop sounded the best at Giant's.
that WAS pretty good at that show. I havent listened to that gig in a couple of years. I liked the fact that they did a "Some Girls" theme on the b-stage. All New York songs at a New York show. Maybe I just wasnt in the mood that night, though..
>And as for Cleveland yes the sound was fuckin GREAT. Wow. The Stones had Punch this tour. Cant you Hear Me knocking in Cleveland was fantastic. Ronnie sounded great.
yeah, Cleveland was one of the better US arena shows on that tour. Still think Oakland was my favourite, though!
>By the way you posted "non-sense" referring to my earlier post. I think I put it wrong or you took it wrong. I just meant a Stadium has a huge production no matter what the event and with A Stones concert things are great there with all that going on.
OK. No prob!
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| March 27th, 2005 10:11 AM |
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| CYHMK |
Yup..Lets get REEEAAALLLY GOOD so we can play 80,000+ filled arenas..hogwash! Grateful Dead same deal to a degree...you get so damn popular you are forced to play LARGE SPECTACLES to feed the masses. Big $$$ for outdoor venues these days. One could only imagine the payroll out to all the people to put on these monstrosities. Mick is no fool and will make sure a ton of loot is made for the band whenever they tour. I saw both Fleet Center(arena) shows and Orpheum theater show of Licks tour and all absolutely smoked and completely blew me away! FUCKING KEITH MAN! HE IS THE SOUL OF WHICH THIS BAND EVOLVES! NOT MANY LEFT LIKE HIM. I NOW GO ANY TIME I GET A CHANCE. WHEN YOUR IN A ROOM WITH HIM, You Can FEEL IT! YOU LOSE ALL or PART OF THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTORS LIKE THIS at big outdoor venues. I guess I just feel like the energy is more channeled from the performers if I'm there WITH the musicians. Although I have attended many MAGICAL outdoor shows, mostly from Jerry and GD..but that is another subject. Outdoors at Foxboro was just ok compared to the indoor arena and theater shows. Talked with some brit lifetime fans and agreed that Licks tour was far and away better than many past tours, and one even stated best they'd seen since mid-seventies!
Stones at Fenway should be interesting...tour should start about the time the follow up to Pirates of Carribean comes out, with Keith I believe playing Johnny Depps DAD?/UNCLE? What a hoot!
Peace All,
Rich in Mass |
| March 27th, 2005 11:20 AM |
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| Martha |
I would love to see them do theater shows 5-7 night stints at each and just fookin' PLAY their long catalogue, like Bob does. Criminey, fook this stadium shit.....I'm waaaay to old for that (and my back hurts a lot you can relate right jb?) at this point.
I would be out of my mind to see them at the Pantages for a 10 night run and The State Theater in Detroit. etc.,......you get my drift. I was so disappointed that they did so few club shows this last tour.....only the major cities got them. And these ridiculously high (OTT) ticket prices to see them up close...is insulting and hurtful to all their fans. I would never be able to afford $300 tickets let alone buy 2 of them. Come the fook on....get out there and ROCK AND ROLL. Forget the money......it's time to DANCE and GROOVE!
peace, love and rock and roll,
The Easter Bunny |
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