| March 18th, 2005 06:17 PM |
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| time is on my side |
Just read an article in ROLLING STONE where rock radio stations across the U.S. are closing. Y100 in Philadelphia on February 24, 2005 played the final notes of Pearl Jam's 1992 breakthrough hit "Alive" and then faded to silence. When the music resumed a few minutes later, Y100 had become the Beat (Philly's newest hip-hop station). In the past six months, three other major market rock stations have folded- Washington DC's WHFS, Miami's WZBT, and Houston's KLOL. Ratings for rock radio have been in decline for at least six years, with audiences shrinking by nearly twenty percent. With urban and Hispanic formats increasing nationwide, rock is getting sqeezed out. The poor rating numbers have left programmers complaining about the quality of recent music. It appears hip-hop and R&B have a stranglehold on teens and young adults. Only six percent of teenagers are listening to rock at any given time compared with nearly twenty percent listening to urban radio (rap) and fourty percent listening to Top Fourty radio stations, which are dominated by hip-hop and R&B.
So is this the beginning of the end??? The death of rock& roll on the radio??? Personally, I haven't listened to the radio in years. I've got so many CD's that, while I'm in the car, I'm listening to my kind of music. The music I like. I can program an incredible selection of music that no DJ is allowed to program on a popular radio format. Plus, I don't think rock and roll will ever die (Long Live Rock). In my opinion, there will always be an audience for quality rock; it just may not be as large as it once was. The Times They Are A-Changin.
[Edited by time is on my side] |
| March 18th, 2005 06:33 PM |
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| JumpingKentFlash |
Well, we just have to wait until the next Nirvana comes (read: saviours of rock 'n roll). Then everybody will listen to that. Rock music could get just as many listeners as shit-hop and r&b, if the rockers would just start wearing bling and make videos with hot undressed ladies. You see the music isn't what it's about in the hip-hop, R&B etc. It's the naked chicks and the bling. And that effin' sucks.
You're right my man: Rock 'n Roll Will Live Forever.
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| March 18th, 2005 06:45 PM |
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| Soldatti |
R&B/Urban killed rock music in US, they are the 80% of the market right now. This started in 1986 with Aerosmith and the duet with Run DMC. |
| March 18th, 2005 07:41 PM |
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| glencar |
It's a sad day for fans of good music. I mostly listen to WFUV which is NYC's premiere college station. There are only 3 commercial FM rock radio stations I can listen to. |
| March 18th, 2005 07:48 PM |
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| Baby Steelie |
Rock'n, rock'n'roll radio Let's go
Rock'n, rock'n'roll radio Let's go
Rock'n, rock'n'roll radio Let's go
Rock'n, rock'n'roll radio Let's go
Do you remember Hullabaloo,
Upbeat, Shinding and Ed Sullivan too?
Do you remember rock'n'roll radio?
Do you remember rock'n'roll radio?
Do you remember Murray the K,
Alan Freed, and high energy?
It's the end, the end of the 70's
It's the end, the end of the century
Do you remember lying in bed
With your covers pulled up over your head?
Radio playin' so no one can see
We need change, we need it fast
Before rock's just part of the past
'Cause lately it all sounds the same to me
Oh oh oh oh, oh oh
Will you remember Jerry Lee,
John Lennon, T. Rex and Ol' Moulty?
It's the end, the end of the 70's
It's the end, the end of the century
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| March 18th, 2005 08:16 PM |
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| gorda |
Well, here in Northern California, there are plenty of radio stations that play rock. In fact, there a few that just play classic rock from the 60's and 70's! And, then there are those that play alternative and heavy metal. And, yes college radio stations play the best music sometimes.
I hardly ever listen to the radio anymore either. I have way too many CDs and tapes. |
| March 18th, 2005 08:40 PM |
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| Nasty Habits |
I feel duty bound to remind everyone that Rock and Roll is on the air from 3-5 eastern time TOMORROW ie Saturday at
http://www.wpvm.org
Tune in tomorrow for MC5, Johnny Fortune, Johnnie and Jack, Long John Hunter, Swamp Dogg, Sugarboy Crawford, The Relations, the Spiders, The Miracles, The Supremes, Jay & the Techniques, Little Joe Curtis, James Carr, Bobby Darin, Joel Sonnier, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Mississippi Sheiks, Leroy Carr, Maddox Brothers and Sister Rose, Roxy Music, The Sound of Imker, The Trashmen, the Uniques w/Joe Stampley, The Rolling Stones, Roky Erikson, The Clique, Barry Weaver, The Realistics, Harry Johnson, Bobbie Gentry, Holly Golightly, Sammy Lay, Bobby Jameson, Sonic's Rendezvous Band, Ike and Tina Turner and the Holy Modal Rounders!
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| March 19th, 2005 05:26 AM |
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| Monkeytonkman |
Christ, this really is a disheartening post. Totally Bummed out.
Being a British 30 year old, we have never really had many avenues for rock music in this country - the occassional rock show on radio or TV (R.I.P. Tommy Vance)
But when I went to live in Canada for a year and then travel round the States for a few months, it was like a completely new experience, being able to turn on a radio and listen to a station totally dedicated to Rock music - man I was in nivarna baby!
Of course, with recent developments in the UK with digital radio, we can get specialist station, but it's not the same.
All you can do man is keep on rocking,
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| March 19th, 2005 07:41 AM |
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| egon |
if jb was still here, he'd tell you rock is dead.
he'd also tell you that the the stones are dead...
and that the beatles are shit, ticket sales have been bad the last tour & will be even worse the next, the brits (incl the irish) hate the stones and always have, nothing beats a mercedes, his secretary sucks like a nilvisk, everybody hates the jews, tickets are too expensive, and there's nothing wrong with quantity posting.
I tend to agree with him on the ticket prices.
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| March 19th, 2005 07:43 AM |
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| Nellcote |
Enjoy The Moment!
Long Live Rock-Be It Dead or Alive!~ |
| March 19th, 2005 10:11 AM |
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| JumpingKentFlash |
quote:
egon wrote:
His secretary sucks like a nilfisk.
Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Fuckin' hilarious. I'd like to meet her though. |
| March 19th, 2005 09:46 PM |
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| CraigP |
Fuck Aerosmith. They are just as old as the Stones and in a trough of fame status Aerosmith decided that in 1986 they should overdub the worn-out classic "Walk This Way" with some "popular" hip-hop beats with the fresh new group RUN DMC as a desperate call for attention and marketing.
Unfortunately, it worked. It helped confuse people on what rock is really about and rap was about.
My opinion on "old-skool" hip-hop lyrics are about the poor African American lives in the ghetto which whas valid.
Now hip-hop/rap are all about "bling bling", clubbing, pimping, raping, and money...
It all sold out. Just like the pioneers of punk did such as the Sex Pistols, The Clash and other '77 bands.
They bought into the system, Big-Brother, record company influenced styles, songs written by producers other than the artist(s) etc... However, CRASS always kept it real untill their PLANNED DISBANDMENT IN 1984.
There is still some very serious punk with struggling, hungry musicians with a message warning our listeners (the public) about the corruptions of the system, Govt., society, violence, love, and Anarchy, freedom, and peace.
"PUNK IS HIPPIES" -THE G.I.S.M. (A popular Japanese anarcho group)
The difference between true punk and the hippies is that hippies are pacifists...
[Edited by CraigP] |
| March 19th, 2005 10:17 PM |
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| Prodigal Son |
Ripping the Clash as sell-outs? Now I've seen it all. |
| March 20th, 2005 10:59 AM |
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| Martha |
I hate the mainstream radio. Quit listening to it 5 years ago. Rock and Roll is music for the soul. Corporate capitalism kills all life. Keep those CD's and boots rollin' in.....like fresh air and clean water. Music is life itself.
long live rock...... |
| March 20th, 2005 11:26 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
I'm not at all sure that there ever was a "golden age" of rock n roll radio anyway. So what's all the fuss? Any top ten, of any year, of any month, the good stuff is going to be mixed with the shit. Sometimes the ratio changes. |
| March 20th, 2005 11:27 AM |
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| JumpingKentFlash |
quote:
Martha's sig says:
Sir Stonesalot is 100% correct....Mick Jagger IS the 9th wonder of the WORLD!
And I'm the 8th wonder??? |
| March 20th, 2005 11:32 AM |
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| Ten Thousand Motels |
No, sorry, the last I checked King Kong is still the 8th wonder. |
| March 20th, 2005 01:50 PM |
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| JumpingKentFlash |
I see. Damn it. I thought I was it.......
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| March 20th, 2005 08:47 PM |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
Ten Thousand Motels wrote:
I'm not at all sure that there ever was a "golden age" of rock n roll radio anyway.
The 1968-1975 era was very close to the word "Gold". I think that EVERY year up to 1997-98 was glorious. The real rock decadence started ten years ago. |
| March 20th, 2005 10:27 PM |
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| Make It Funky |
Soldatti.. so are you singling out Aerosmith for the downfall of rock and roll on radio!?!? hahahah Too funny.
Um.. a VERY intersting and important thread here, that concerns each and every one of us in this forum.
Firstly, I recommend you all check out www.q107.com here in Toronto. Particularly on Psychadelic Psundays. Need I say anymore???
Secondly, Little Steven's Underground Garage is a fantastic program on a Sunday night if you're free. Check it out.
Thirdly, www.surfernetwork.com I find that the Radio Woodstock is truly fucking amazing. I believe I made a po about it last year while in Australia. 24/7 of tunes from Johnny Cash to ChucK Berry to Grateful Dead - Joni Mitchell to John Coltrane to New Riders of the Purple Sage all win a 20 minute session.
Fourthly, I believe there are some great ones in North America.. or more particularly, the FAN for military over seas (like in Japan for instance).
Fifthly... dont' give up... For soon enough, you'll be able to pick up tunes in your car via the internet. And it'll then be a real SWEET ride if you know waht I mean?? Surfin' the highways... Like Jimmy Clancy sang in 1958, "Its Just A Matter, of Time..."
Cheers all.
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| March 21st, 2005 01:56 AM |
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| LuckyWithTheLadies |
I agree with Motels. Top 40 has always been mostly garbage. I only listen to satelite radio these days. And their rock stations are mostly museum shows. Or at least the channels I listen to. Face it folks. Rock is a tired worn out form. It is no longer risque, it's boring, it's what the parents listen to, there's nuthing new that can be done here. The last band to have even a remotely new sound was U2. Sorry, Nirvana didn't have a sound that was essentially any different from classic rock. Rock will always live on as Jazz and other dead popular musical forms live on. Some artists are very successfull at this. Look at Harry Connick Jr. He has had a huge career in a musical field that has been dead for many decades. I think Pearl Jam and Creed are similiar to Connick in that respect. They are just recreating the past. The excitement now is in R&B just like it was in the 50s and early 60s. And like the 50s and 60s we've got carefully produced and crafted artists nearly picked up off the streets putting out hits almost on a daily basis trying to catch the zeitgeist just like Mr. Philips was doin' in his studio in Memphis - lookin for the next big performer that will sell big. And just like the 50s and 60s white copy cat performers are becomeing huge stars copying R&B - Eminmen, Kid Rock, Justin Timberlake. These are the Elvises and Stones of today - taking R&B to the white neighborhoods. This is what popular music is and always will be. It's always been about big hits and selling records. It's always been about the bling bling and a life style that edges on the unrespectable. Bling bling and big pimpin certainly helped the Stones and Zepplin and every other rock great. Diamond teeth insets? coke habits? private jets? bimbos and limos? All this was very carefully paraded before the adoring fans. Nothing has changed but the musical style.
Technology and time has made rock and roll obsolete. There is no point in live instruments anymore. The production level on some of those songs is incredible. And the excitement that these mixes can create in a club is comparable to the excitement of early beatles and stones. I myself prefer that dangerous, sexually charged atmosphere to the stupid faux rock band up on stage trying to look like a fictional 60s band and sounding like they just picked up the quitar yesterday and couldn't pick chuck berry or howlin wolf out of a line up to save their white middle class asses. |
| March 21st, 2005 06:46 PM |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
Make It Funky wrote:
Soldatti.. so are you singling out Aerosmith for the downfall of rock and roll on radio!?!? hahahah Too funny.
I never said that. I said that the attention for the Rap/Hip Hop started with the Aerosmith/Run DMC duet. |
| March 21st, 2005 08:17 PM |
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| time is on my side |
quote:
I only listen to satelite radio these days. And their rock stations are mostly museum shows. Or at least the channels I listen to. Face it folks. Rock is a tired worn out form. It is no longer risque, it's boring, it's what the parents listen to, there's nuthing new that can be done here. The last band to have even a remotely new sound was U2.
I agree. One of the biggest problems facing rock is the lack of new innovative bands who can connect with the teenagers and young adults of today. In the last ten or fifteen years or so, there just hasn't been that many exciting, talented new bands that have appeared on the scene who have generated any kind of excitement. There have been a few exceptions (Wilco, Radiohead for example) and these bands have been enormously successful in selling records. By and large, however, there doesn't seem to be anyone that is young anymore that is a genuine, talented rock & roll star. Rock has been relying on aging warriors whose better days are already behind them. Incredibly talented musicians, it just isn't natural to expect these people (most already well over the age of 50) to connect with the youth of today (people who are less than half their ages). What's missing from rock is the youthful passion and energy that used to define the music. There just hasn't been anybody who has come along recently. There is a huge talent gap. While in the 60's, you had dozens of talented, youthful bands who exploded on the scene seemingly all at the same time and then, for two or three decades, you had other talented musicians coming along to add to this legacy, today you basically have nobody or very little that's actually new or hasn't been around for decades.
It shouldn't come as any surprise then that the youth of today feel disconnected from rock. The successful stars are older than their fathers. They simply cannot relate to these multi-millionaire's who can no longer express the youthful passions, anger, and energy of their youth. As the core audience of rock gets older, the music itself will eventually die out unless young talented musicians can step forward and re-energize the music. The youth, with no real alternative, has turned to rap, hip-hop,and R&B because ,the stars being the same age, have been able to express the same concerns they have. They are speaking the same language. It's my bet, in the not too distant future, youthful rock bands will reemerge from their cocoons to reclaim another generation of youth; this one, unfortunately, is already lost.
quote:
Technology and time has made rock and roll obsolete. There is no point in live instruments anymore.
I couldn't disagree more with this quote. One of the interesting things about hip-hop and R&B is, despite selling tons of records, these same major artist cannot sell concert tickets!!! They can't sell out arenas. This fact has been known to concert promoters for years. Why is that??? Rock and roll, despite it's recent setbacks, still is a major seller on the concert scene. So it appears the same people who own the hip-hop CD's have no real desire to see these artist live. Again, why is that??? My daughter, a big hip-hop fan by the way, may offer a clue. She's told me many times that she knows these people have no real musical talent. She say they're all about image and have no real substance. It's one of her regrets that her generations music will quickly be lost through time and will leave no lasting impression or legacy to future generations. She says people won't be listening to the popular hip-hop artist of today ten years from now while many will still be listening to the Stones and Beatles because they had true musical talent. Yet, you may ask, why does she buy the CD's???? Because it's her generation's music. It's all they have. It's music that speaks to their youth.
U2's concert tickets sold out across the nation. When, if ever, has hip-hop sold like that???? Classic rock has substance- hip hop does not. Rock, with all those live instruments, is exciting to see live; hip-hop is not all that exciting since it's all about image with marginally talented performers.
quote:
And just like the 50s and 60s white copy cat performers are becomeing huge stars copying R&B - Eminmen, Kid Rock, Justin Timberlake. These are the Elvises and Stones of today - taking R&B to the white neighborhoods. This is what popular music is and always will be
Hey, whatever floats your boat is fine with me. We just have different taste in music. I just don't find Eminmen, Kid Rock, and Justin Timberlake to be all that exciting. If you look upon them as the Elvises and Stones of today, I guess you have a right to your opinion. If this is what you find to be exciting and cutting edge, we agree to disagree. You see I always thought Elvis and the Stones had musical talent; Eminmen, Kid Rock, and Justin Timberlake just don't strike me as having much. Some 40+ years later, people, for whatever reason, are still listening to Elvis and the Stones. They still sell. I wonder if Eminmen, Kid Rock, and Justin Timberlake will still be selling CD's 40 years from now?????
[Edited by time is on my side] |
| March 21st, 2005 09:07 PM |
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| Soldatti |
Excelent post.
Agree with you 100%. |
| March 21st, 2005 09:15 PM |
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| Lazy Bones |
quote:
Make It Funky wrote:
Firstly, I recommend you all check out www.q107.com here in Toronto. Particularly on Psychadelic Psundays. Need I say anymore???
You beat me to it...
Andy Frost brings his educated and brilliant, great-taste to the radio every Sunday. The show plays only music from 1965-1975. Really, the only radio program I make an effort to repeatedly listen to. |
| March 22nd, 2005 12:22 AM |
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| LuckyWithTheLadies |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technology and time has made rock and roll obsolete. There is no point in live instruments anymore.
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>> I couldn't disagree more with this quote. One of the interesting things about hip-hop and R&B is, despite selling tons of records, these same major artist cannot sell concert tickets!!! They can't sell out arenas. This fact has been known to concert promoters for years. Why is that??? <<
It is precisely because the technology has made live instruments pointless. The records sound better than live performance. This has nothing to do with talent. Up until around the 80s (the beginning of the end for live music) the only way for ordinary music fans to hear music as loud and dynamically alive as music heard at a typical Who concert or Stone's concert was to play and hear the instruments live. Today the opposite is true. Cheap digital play back systems now sound better and can create a more dynamic sound stage than most amplified live instruments can create. This is especially true in large venues. Have you been in a happening club that plays real hip-hop and r&b or Techno lately? There is no arena or stadium show that can compete with that. Hell, the sound system at most arena and stadium shows can't even come close to competing with a working class kid's car stereo system. There is no point in going to an arena to hear Snoop Dogg. He sounds more alive in your car. This is not a talent issue; it's a technology issue. You may think James Brown had more talent than Snoop Dogg, but I am not entirely convinced. With all respect to you and your daughter, I think you are both wrong. Nobody in the Stones or any other classic rock act is a more talented muscian than someone else and is therefore quaranteed a place in history. They are talented PERFORMERS. Just like Snoop Dogg and other performers of his generation are. It is not hard to play the guitar like Richards or even Clapton or Hendrix. I think anyone who has played a quitar understands this. The talent does not lie in their musical ability. Keith Richards can't carey a tune in a bucket and has tuneing issues with his quitar. This is not musical talent on display here. Don't misunderstand me, I love the guy and I love his music. But he's gift is performance and not strictly musical. And this is true of all but a few rock and rollers. I don't know of any that have perfect pitch or outstanding abilities. I am sure some do, but unusual musical gifts are not necassary to play great rock and roll. Certainly nobody in the Stones has an unusual musical gift. I also disagree with your daughter on no music from today standing the test of time. I don't know of any popular musical era that did not produce at least a few popular artists who transcend the genre and era they played and performed in. I bet your daughter knows who Frank Sinatra is and could probably sing one of his songs and I'm bettin' you and her would consider Sinatra's musical mileau to be a bunch of crab. And I bet she and her friends know some disco tunes and a few jazz numbers too that they picked up at the movies or on TV or somewhere walking through a mall. Even though they may think disco sucks and jazz stinks, some of the songs are . . . well . . . cool. And this had nothing to do with the BeeGees musical abilities. Steven Foster is still sticking around here and there in the dustier corners of pop music and he only wrote songs in one key. The key of F I think it was, because that was the only key he could play the piano in. Musical talent is not what set him apart from other popular musicians of his time. The fact that Elvis may or may not have had more talent than Timberlake has is not what will make his music stick around.
I am not a fan of m&m, timberlake, or kid rock. But I think that the role they are playing is similiar to the role that elvis and other white r&b performers of his era played. They are making black "loser" music ok for "cool" white kids to listen to. I don't think I am alone in that opinion. Again, I am not comparing timberlake's talent to elvis's talent, that is a moot point. What I am comparing is the roles they are playing on the musical seen. The black/white musical divide is not the gulf that it was in 1956 but it is still there.
You say that Rock does not speak to today's generation and that hip hop does. This is precisely what makes music exciting to each generation. You conceded the point that you don't find hip-hop exciting but today's kids do. Sinatra live was VERY exciting for his generation and Count Basie's beat could get the crowd whipped up. And I'm betting you wonder . . . what was the excitement about? (I don't know your musical taste. If you dig Sinatra substitute some other pop fluf from the past.) You might say, "That guy is BORING and there is a whole bunch of people who can sing just as well." And you would be right on that. And there is not a lack of talent today and today's musical seen is not boring. Rock radio sure as heck is. But electronic file sharing sure ain't. The clubs ain't. Ipods aren't. Music lives on and kid's still express their teenage angst in music - as was always and always will be.
The times they are a changin. Look out all you rock and rollers; time may change you, but you can't change time.
That all got very long winded and rambling and I think I successfully obscured my own point. There are other reasons why artists today can't draw large crowds when they perfrom live. One reason being, there is no sense of community now a days like there was in the rock communtiy of yester years. All of us against all of them. The musical seen has become splittered. This is not some sinister plan by evil coroporte suits or because Aerosmith teamed up with Run DMC. Times changed. And I'm stoppin' there and puttin the word processor away.
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| March 22nd, 2005 01:39 PM |
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| 69 Chevy |
I have lived in Houston for over 20 years. KLOL was an rock and roll institution back in the 80s. Unfortunately when it was shut down a few months back the format was 90% of what they were playing in 1984. Some classics, but mostly "hair metal", and very little new music. If you are into that kind of thing that is fine, but I can only tolerate the same 100 or so songs so many times. I was disappointed when KLOL changed formats, but I hardly ever listened the last few years anyhow.
It seems that where ever I travel the radio stations are better than what we have here in Houston which is dominated by Clear Channel. We now have KIOL, which is promising to bring back rock and roll to Houston, but if they go with the KLOL set list I won't listen for long! |
| March 22nd, 2005 09:00 PM |
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| quackenbush |
Even though I love rock and roll, I think most rock and roll stations, especially in Philadelphia, are boring. They mostly play a few of the hits of the major acts. How many times do your really want to hear freaking Pink Floyd's "Money?" The shit gets on my nerves. Maybe the decline of the rock radio format will spur some change. If not, there is always talk radio or gangsta rap.
Pop it like its hot, wankstah.
[Edited by quackenbush] |
| March 22nd, 2005 10:58 PM |
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| Soldatti |
quote:
quackenbush wrote:
Even though I love rock and roll, I think most rock and roll stations, especially in Philadelphia, are boring. They mostly play a few of the hits of the major acts. How many times do your really want to hear freaking Pink Floyd's "Money?" The shit gets on my nerves. Maybe the decline of the rock radio format will spur some change. If not, there is always talk radio or gangsta rap.
Pop it like its hot, wankstah.
[Edited by quackenbush]
Exact, the same example works for Start Me Up. |
| March 23rd, 2005 02:41 AM |
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| IanBillen |
Of coarse I like Rock n Roll/Rock as my fav and then basically everything eles takes a side seat. But still I like all kinds of music.
I like Hip Hop and R&B. I listen to top 40 radio all the time.
However I can appreciate real quality country as well. But only by certain performers.
Rap is hit and miss for me. When it is hit not too bad is as far as it gets. When it is miss it is just plain stupid. But most are misses. I just don't want to drown in it like everyone eles.
Wonder what would happen if we had a radio station ply a complete mix of things? Such as great Rock n Roll and top 40 stuff. I know it makes no sense whatsoever but I would surely tune in.
Ian |
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