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| nankerphelge |
Someone down the hall from me is playing Exile as we speak -- I took a look through the liner notes and between Keith, Mick Taylor and Bill Plummer, there is relatively few songs that Bill played on. Kind of surprised me. |
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| sandrew |
He plays on 10 of 18 tracks, right? According to an interview with Taylor, they would just cut tracks when the feeling was right, even if all members weren't present - like when Keith recorded "Happy" with Jimmy Miller on drums. Must've been a free-wheeling atmosphere. Wish I was there - then again, maybe I don't. |
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| nankerphelge |
According to the liner notes Taylor, Plummer, and Keith are not listed on the following 8 tracks so I would assume Bill played:
Rocks Off
Hip Shake
Sweet Virginia
Black Angel
Loving Cup
Ventilator Blues
Let It Loose
Stop Breaking Down
Less than half
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| Geoff |
Exile's coming up on 30 years next month. I think the looseness of those sessions, whomever happened to be around playing on a particular track, adds to the casual magic of that record. It's a miracle it got made & it'll never be matched. |
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| robbluedog |
From 'Beggars Banquet' on Bill Wyman seems to be always getting replaced on the bass tracks.
Although he did make the cuts on most of 'Let it bleed' 'Sticky Fingers', 'Black and Blue' and 'Some Girls', for other albums like 'Exile', 'It's only Rock'n' Roll' and 'Emotional Rescue' Bill seems to be only around for less than half the time. And he hardly shows up at all on 'Goats Head Soup', 'Undercover' and 'Dirty Work'.
'Steel wheels' lists the players credits song by song and he makes 70% of that which is pretty good by Bills standards.
So not having Bill on the songs is almost normal for a Stones album! Maybe a contributing factor in his departure. |
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| Maxlugar |
Well we can debate Bill's presence in the studio and it's reasons for years to come.
However.
There is no doubt Bill "The Little hands that Could" Wyman was present and Accoun-fucking-ted for on stage!!!!
Oh my God is he there!!!
Handsome girls?
I'm right now listening to LA '75. Bill is sorely missed.
Darryl is good but he is not Bill.
"Stick Bill Wyman's left hand in my anus, Ronnie!"
Maxlugar - Providing quality posts like this since 1995. |
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| FPM C10 |
As I often do at my OTHER imaginary playhouse, you know, THAT one over THERE... I will put my two centavos in as a bass player (whose first bass was a blue Fender Mustang with a racing stripe EXACTLY like Bill's) and say Bill is no great shakes on bass. ANYBODY playing bass with Charlie Friggin' Watts on drums will sound great. Even the guy from Creed would sound good!
I've researched the Bill on Exile question, and Bill claims the liner notes aren't necessarily right, but another explanation is that the mixing board in the Stones' Mobile Studio got a lousy bass sound, so the final bass line was often overdubbed - in the case of Exile, in LA. Perhaps Bill's original basslines are still in there too, adding to the glorious murk.
I think the groove the Stones have achieved onstage with Darryl on the last three tours is muscular, swaggering, and wonderful. And Darryl hasn't released any solo albums as godawful as Monkey Grip. (Ok, he DID record with Sting, but he also recorded with Miles Davis, which more than balances the scales.)
I'm sorry about my anti-Bill stance, but speaking again as a bass player, anyone who quits a band - world's greatest or not - where he gets to be in the rhythm section with Charlie Watts is just plain nuts. |
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| nanky |
You two crack me up.
When I first started listening to the Stones I never much cared for Bill -- not so much for whether I knew shit about his ability. More because he just stood there in so much contrast to the rest of the band. Stage presence was not Bill. Of course, when on the same stage with Mick, not too many can say they have stage presence.
I do notice and miss his contribution, as Max says, on Handsome Girls -- he has his way of playing that just works perfectly some times. Without it, it is not the Stones in a way. Yet, after listening to them for how many years, I just noticed how absent he was from Exile. I can understand his absence in others and suspect a lot of it was by choice.
But I really agree with the post that whatever Exile was, it was sure amazing and continues to be still.
At the same time, I agree that Daryl has done fine precisely because Bill did not otherwise make his presence known.
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| Maxlugar |
I feel like I have been kicked in the stomach.
Not so much because I've had a Fosters Oil can, Two Becks and at least four glasses of wine....
No.
I think it's from reading a post that was writen by a man I love. A man whose Fleabit Peanut Fucking Moniker I've been reading since I was a wee Maxy. A man who plays the bass and sits justs to the right of me at the CLEVELAND God damned Hard rock wamma lamma. A man who once made me rupture a testicle by saying you practically need a prescription to buy Sticky Fingers, the album I consider to be the Rolling Stones greatest of all time. A man who turned me on to someone as great as Hound Dog Taylor. A man who probably nailed Dandelion. A man whose teachings I consider as holy as Rush Limbaughs with regards to music as opposed to politics. A man I consider an elder statesman of these Rolling Stones boards without making fun of how old he is, it's just because he was in the same room as the Lotus Stage and I wasn't. It is because this man actualy said.....I can't even type it.......He said.....Fleabit! You said......Well I'm not even sure you actually came out and said it....but....I'd swear you said....
Shit.
Fleabit.
Did you say Darryl Jones was a better bass player......no wait....He MAY very well be a better bass player....let me rephrase that...
Did you MEAN to say Darryl (is that how you spell his fucking name?) Jones is a better bass player FOR THE STONES than Bill "Stop calling me Perks" Wyman?
Please say I'm too drunk to understand you my Fleabit Peanut God Damned Monkey!
Get back to me on this......
Developing......
Maxy! |
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
Maxy...
I really hate to freak you out, but I kinda agree with ol' FPM. I don't agree so much about earlier in Bill's time with the Stones...but definately later in Bill's career. I thought towards the end, and most definately on the Steel Wheels album and tour, Bill was completely uninspired and lacking. Boring even. I think one of the big reasons that Voodoo slapped everyone in the noggin was because the music had some bounce and groove again. That comes from Daryl's fresh legs. Listen to Paint It Black from Live At The Max, then listen to Paint It Black from one of the 99 NS shows. The NS version is far and away better...and the one thing that jumps out at you is how much bottom the song had, the swing vs. the 89 version. This is just one example.
FPM is right about Bill's playing....it sounds so good because of Charlie. FPM would sound just as good, if not better(You'll have to just trust me on this. He's as good as there is...way better than the Creed guy!), if he played with Charlie Watts. Bill is an unspectacular player...it worked with the Stones because of how GREAT Charlie Watts is, and that the music did not DEMAND any more than unspectacular. Bill is/was solid. No more, no less. I think if you read back over the Monkey's post, you'll see that he never said that he didn't like Bill. He just said that as a bass player, Bill wasn't all that great. He didn't have to be, he had Charlie. |
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| yellow1 |
another 2 cents.
I never thought much of Bill's playing especially since he often played the same licks, try "Gangster's Moll" or "She Was Hot", until I re-watched LSTNT, Hal Ashby's movie of the 1981 tour.
He kicks MAJOR ass onstage and really pushes the music along with Charlie. They build a real wall of sound on which Keith and Ronnie sporidically (especially Ronnie) add some flourishing touches. Do yourself a favor and watch that if you think that Darryl is better than Bill ! And remember at the time there weren't all these fancy musicians onstage, just the boys, Stu and Mac. |
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| Maxlugar |
Yeah Xims, what's with Bill on the '89 tour? That doesn't even seem like Bill at all. I've always wondered about that. I think the music in general became too tight starting with that tour.
I was just bustin' on FPM there. It's been a while since I've seen him post and wanted to push his buttons. I miss the guy. I can see why some think he's better than Bill. Listen to You Got Me Rocking. Darryl is all over the place on that one on No Security.
I just miss Bill and HIS way of playing.
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
Well, I think we all miss the way Bill used to play...same could be said about the whole friggin' band. Truthfully, I think Bill just got bored. Now as for HOW anyone could get bored with being in the best band in the known universe, I guess that's another question....But the 1989-90 Bill Wyman certainly sounded like a guy going thru the motions, and not putting much effort out.
I'd rather have Daryl playing, at least he acts like he wants to be there. |
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| robbluedog |
I agree with the good cardinal here. On the 'To the max' footage Bill did appear to be dragging the band, not pushing them. Prior to that he always played like he meant it.
I think Bills playing was good for the Stones in his day in so much as he had a more idiosynchratic style as a bassplyer than say does Darryl Jones. Bill tended to fill up the bottom end of the Stones with a sort of rumble and noise eg '19th nervous breakdown', which I miss a bit.
On the other hand at least Darryl is kicking arse live. And even with the departure of Bill they still can't seem to settle on a bass player who does a whole album. |
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| robbluedog |
I agree with the good cardinal here. On the 'To the max' footage Bill did appear to be dragging the band, not pushing them. Prior to that he always played like he meant it.
I think Bills playing was good for the Stones in his day in so much as he had a more idiosynchratic style as a bassplyer than say does Darryl Jones. Bill tended to fill up the bottom end of the Stones with a sort of rumble and noise eg '19th nervous breakdown', which I miss a bit.
On the other hand at least Darryl is kicking arse live. And even with the departure of Bill they still can't seem to settle on a bass player who does a whole album. |
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| FPM C10 |
Ah, glad to hear that Maxy was just eggin' me on. I got halfway through a post recanting my Bill bashing, but the best thing I could say was that to this day I still can't do those fantastic dive bomber runs from 19th Nervous Breakdown. THAT song is Bill's finest moment. Other than that he got a LOT of mileage outta the old standard I-walk up to IV-V pattern, and the quasi-disco octave jogging he perfected on "Miss You". Now THAT is one of my LEAST favorite Stones songs, but Darryl actually made it palatable the last few times I heard it.
Really, if only I'd never seen the "Monkey Grip" promos on Don Kirshner, perhaps I'd feel better about Bill. The Stones should have kicked him out in 1974 after those Benny Hill rejects hit the airwaves. If MICK's solo career makes you scratch your head, you've REALLY gotta wonder about phase one of Bill's. At least now he has the good sense not to sing on his releases. |
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| Gazza |
>The Stones should have kicked him out in 1974 after those Benny Hill rejects hit the airwaves
Cryin with laughter at this one! If anyones ever seen these promos they'd realise how accurate a description that is. Post of the week.... |
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| Cardinal Ximinez |
Gazza, I had horrible nightmares for a friggin' week after the Friggin' Fleabitten One showed me those fucking clips....Good ol' Monkey Grip...Monkey Grip Monkey Grip! Egad! What makes it so terrible is that he KNEW what those damn clips would do to me...and he SHOWED THEM ANYWAY! Damn, I thought we wuz buds..... |
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| Maxlugar |
Mmmmm white lightnin' sure tastes good.
Yeah those clips are testicle shrinkingly bad.
Ya know what's funny? Bill goes back to his blues and jazz roots with his new band and totally forgets he made things like jeuiz un rock star (no way I spelled that right.
How about THAT video! Holy moly!
But it's funny how he kind of took a high horse attitude about the fact he's now making music close to his roots and the Stones aren't. I don't know WHAT kind of music he calls what he was making in the 70's and early 80's.
But I still miss his rumble. He is after all a big part of The Drive equation (Bill Wyman + Charlie Watts x Keith Richards)
Maxy! |
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| The Worst |
I think, that three of Bill's best works with the Stones come from the "Tattoo You" album: "Start Me Up", "Neighbors" and "Heaven".
And "Miss You" is one of my FAVORITE Rolling Stones songs. |
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