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| pdog |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
I'm not mad...but why bother with Bush?...It's McCain or Obama...you said it...you're worried about your country...Bush IS a non-sequitur at this point...If you had dirt on him, you should have brought that up on 2000 or 2004
There are two candidates to choose from...I'm impressed by neither...but this notion of attending an afro-centric church led by a man of this character being an insignificant, or bias led issue, boggles my mind...
Let me put it to you this way...an example
If Obama told you he had been attending NAMBLA meeting for the last 20 years, would you let your sons go over to his house for a sleep over?
Like I said...you can't tell me Obama wasn't aware of his pastor's rhetoric...so best case scenario for Obama is, he knew what kind of man this was, but still put money in his hat on Sundays...and that's still a pretty shitty scenario
I did bring it up. I talk politics all the time...
and your ex. is a non sequitar.
NAMBLA... hahaha. That is funny. You take something that is not only criminal and repulsive, but unacceptable by all but a few on this planet. You've already gotten my response, you just didn't like it. Your non-sequitar about NAMBLA might've been a better ex. if you said a Giants fan wears a LA Dodgers hate at a game in SoCal. or something like that! |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
He has now btw... and why he didn't a long time ago... Did you ever go to a black church? This is what happens in them every sunday, not all, but many.
He has now...nice...Duke distanced himself from the KKK as well...but as with Obama, that was after the fact...it didn't seem to matter with him
And yeah...I have been to a black churches...even when there were black people in them...and this is not common in black churches...it happens...but it is far from common |
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| pdog |
I just thought of something funny... Then again, I hope anyone reading this already knows, I think religions are stupid, and religous leaders are usually assholes IMO...
I wonder if Obama owned an NWA album... or PE or Snoop or ICE-T... anyway, who gives a fuck? i owned them albums. I dug the music, and laughed at the lyrics. Shit Tupacs Hit Em' Up , gets me fired up as fuck. I love the power in the words. How is an over the to ppreacher any different. Me personally, I;m nore influenced by music, at least I should say, it hits me deeper and spiritually. Religion doesn't at all. Anyway... I'm not the type to be so influenced by music or anyone, that I can say it has anything to do with my decisons or phiosophies.
Anyway... As Stines fans... do we really judge this hard? some preacher, who is putting on a show, in a position of power, for religions who only try to control and keep power?
How retarded are we, as americans, to still care about this crap.
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
pdog wrote:
NAMBLA... hahaha. That is funny. You take something that is not only criminal and repulsive, but unacceptable by all but a few on this planet. You've already gotten my response, you just didn't like it.
Huh?...Racist rhetoric doesn't repulse you?...that's exactly why I chose that NAMBLA example as opposed to some more innocuous example
And I got a response?...Not sure if I liked it or not...apparently, I didn't understand it...I'll look again |
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| Fiji Joe |
Oh this response...
"Why does this not bother me. Probably b/c I'm white. Or probably because I can somewhat understand the anger. I also, disagree with the means, and realize, I can't change anyone, so i move on. Most importantly, this is an issue, that is only an issue to attack Obama. It's not an issue to actually discuss what goes behind, and the events that created these feeling in people. I'm white. I will always be white, and being white is an advantage, and I know it. I also have many, many prejudices, and many of those are towards black people and things I see in the way thier community functions. I don't deny it, and i'm not ashamed for it. In fact, I embrace it, and I speak it openly, and often..more and more. And, I must allow blacks, to do the same, whether I agree with them or not!"
Well at least you're not pretending it's something other than racism...and if you don't mind your president being a man who, by his own admission, is inspired by a blatant racist who has associated with the likes of Farrakhan, et al., that's your choice I suppose...but I hardly think this is just some trumped up issue to attack Obama...this is his "inspiration"...not just some guy who kicked money to his campaign and Obama didn't know what he was about...I could buy that characterization if that's all it was...Piss man...if this isn't an issue, what the hell is?
And there was other rhetoric from this man as well...completely unrelated to race...rhetoric that Obama sat through for years and apparently, drew inspiration...you cool with that too?
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| Starbuck |
this thread is growing long....it needs a good dose of reality.
[Edited by Starbuck] |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
this thread is growing long....it needs a good dose of reality.
Red X fool |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Starbuck wrote:
this thread is growing long....it needs a good dose of reality.
That guy in the lower right clearly worships at a church led by gay pastor |
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| Starbuck |
quote:
That guy in the lower right clearly worships at a church led by gay pastor
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=69041220 |
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| Dan |
I used to love shit like this but I can barely bring myself to care. The funny thing is though, McCain is going to be the next President when only a few months ago it looked like it was going to be a Democrat regardless of who was nominated. |
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| pdog |
quote:
Dan wrote:
I used to love shit like this but I can barely bring myself to care. The funny thing is though, McCain is going to be the next President when only a few months ago it looked like it was going to be a Democrat regardless of who was nominated.
Me caring about what some dickhead religous person says, is only debatable if the person hearing me understands, that I gve little value to religous leaders period. When it comes to politics, it's a bigger joke. I'd rather talk about what the candidates favorite records are. In this day and age, i put way more moral value on a persons musical likes than religion. |
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| Dan |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Me caring about what some dickhead religous person says, is only debatable if the person hearing me understands, that I gve little value to religous leaders period. When it comes to politics, it's a bigger joke. I'd rather talk about what the candidates favorite records are. In this day and age, i put way more moral value on a persons musical likes than religion.
If I weren't so obsessed with listening to music I would probably have enough drive to get me halfway to the White House. I doubt any of these people have any serious tastes. |
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| the good |
So all of you who have been trashing McCain are now running to him for your very little lives. HAHAHA! And he didn't even have to kiss Limbaugh's ass to make you do it. HAHAHA! What a great man. |
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| Fiji Joe |
If Obama had attended and contributed money to the Fred Phelps led Westboro Baptist Church for the last 20 years, and claimed that Fred Phelps was an inspiration to his world outlook, would we have to guess he is a subscriber to their viewpoints?...Or would it be pretty reasonable to assume he is?...Other than the targets of their hatred, not seeing a whole lot of difference here |
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| Prodigal Son |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
In any real American's view he would be toast because of this, but go check out the idiots over at DU. They actually think that this minister is telling it like it is! LOL! The far left liberals will give this guy a complete pass. I mean it's not like he's a Mormon or an Evangelical after all! The rationalization of the liberal mindset is stunning in it's idiocy. Blame whitey. Blame Republicans. Blame America. Plus never, and I mean never ever, accept responsibility for one's own actions. Pretty much sums it up. I mean just take a look at this idiot minister, and the mayor of Detroit.
The Democrat Party is fucked! McRINO is a lock.
Riffy
If McCain can keep the flies off him, the Dems will have fucked themselves over again by choosing Obama. Not like Hilary's the safer choice but these types of Obama comrades can be used by the right to sink a presidential campaign for him. This minister is a great example of a black bigot. Martin Luther King Jr. would tell this guy to go fuck off and go build some commune somewhere in Guatamala.
He makes some points, but then backs them up with such bitterness and "eye-for-an-eye" justification, it makes you sick. He's no better than some KKK sickos when he tries to devalue the death of an 18-year old white girl in Africa just so he can spout of some woeful tale of AIDS, etc. There are poor people suffering with disease/AIDS in this world who AREN'T black, but you don't hear that from this prick. He thinks everything is a conspiracy to rid the world of black people.
Look, I took a course in Civil Rights in America so I think I know what black people have been through. But to claim the US gets its just desserts every time something awful happens? Why do you blame a whole country of people for shit that some racists did years ago? Obama's minister is a Farrakhan in the making. These guys almost make the black panthers look understanding and reserved.
Once again, nutso liberal influences are rearing their ugly head. Man, he's such a left-wing loonie it almost makes me feel like going Republican. Alas, I'm a moderate liberal overall and I live in Canada. But of all the candidates, personally, McCain might be the best left the way it's shaping up. |
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| PartyDoll MEG |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Me caring about what some dickhead religous person says, is only debatable if the person hearing me understands, that I gve little value to religous leaders period. When it comes to politics, it's a bigger joke. I'd rather talk about what the candidates favorite records are. In this day and age, i put way more moral value on a persons musical likes than religion.
I don't know why I have read this shit..but P. you have finally said what needs to be said.
I am sick to death of "dirt digging" done to discredit or ruin the competition..Oh and it will get worse. Never fear. It is politics
In the days when I was forced to attend Church and listen to sermons, I would look at those ministers in disbelief, and I went to every Church imaginable growing up. Some of those ministers, I socialized with. They did not affect how I think and live my life. But Obama does have to address it.
Same as Feej's bullshit isn't gonna change my mind one way or another. I read and decide for myself.
So here is all I offer to this thread. Commentary from Steven Walden http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwal...-responsib.html
Should a candidate be held responsible for the views of his or her pastor?
If we were all held accountable for the views of our clergymen/women, then no one would ever go to church/synagogue etc. Obama shouldn’t be held responsible for all the words of Jeremiah Wright. It is, however, totally fair to ask Obama what parts of Wright’s ideology he agrees with, and which he disagrees with.
The reality is that Americans deal with this kind of thing all the time in their own lives. They go to a church where the pastor repeatedly says things they disagree with and have to decide at what point it’s too much to stomach. Ironically, Wesley Clark was mocked in 2004 for leaving a church because the minister criticized the war. Howard Dean was criticized for leaving a church over land use or development policies.
Some people stay at such a church because they feel that part of a minister’s job is to challenge the views of his congregants. Some stay because the Sunday school is terrific. More commonly, I hear people say something like, “I don’t like the minister’s sermons, but he was so wonderful when my father died.” We should remember that the main purpose of a minister is spiritual. If he helps someone get closer to God, or find meaning, that matters tremendously.
So, it’s not sufficient for Obama to say Wright is a crazy uncle. He has to say what parts of Wright’s message he shares. More important, Obama needs to explain why he’s stayed at the church. It’s a totally legitimate question. If his answer is that, despite Wright’s views on politics and race, the church brought Obama spiritual meaning, then that needs to count for a lot.
[Edited by PartyDoll MEG] |
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| Prodigal Son |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
20 years he's been attending this Church?...Why does Obama hate America?...and this mullah baptized Obama's children?...They need to have their scalps checked for the mark of the beast
Obama pastor: Not God bless, but God d--- America!
Rev. Jeremiah Wright also blames U.S. for 9/11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 13, 2008
3:47 pm Eastern
© 2008 WorldNetDaily
First he praised Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, giving him a humanitarian award and traveling with him to Libya to meet Moammar Gadhafi.
Then he turned his Trinity United Church of Christ into an institution that had all the earmarkings of a black separatist congregation.
And now he, it turns out, he has damned America in God's name and blamed the U.S. for provoking the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks by dropping nuclear weapons on Japan in World War II and supporting Israel since 1947.
The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama's pastor for the last 20 years, the man who married he and his wife, Michelle, and baptized their two daughters and is credited with providing the title of Obama's book, "The Audacity of Hope," has a long history of "inflammatory rhetoric."
But those discovered by an ABC News investigation may be the toppers.
ABC News reviewed dozens of Wright's sermons, finding repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.
"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God d--- America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God d--- America for treating our citizens as less than human. God d--- America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the U.S. had brought on al-Qaida's attacks because of its own terrorism, ABC News reports.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Wright said in a sermon Sept. 16, 2001. "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
Obama declined to comment on Wright's denunciations of the U.S., but a campaign religious adviser, Shaun Casey, appearing on "Good Morning America" today, said Obama "had repudiated" those comments.
In a statement to ABC News, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=58858
This guy seems to hate the USA he lives in. But it doesn't matter where he lives. Dude could move to England today and then his sermons would become about their alliance with the US, their Imperial history of "enslaving the world" and their support of apartheid. Then he'd leave and go to Germany and complain about neo-nazis, etc.
Then he'd go to... Well you understand. If he's going to scathe his land for the atrocities of the past, he might as well acknowledge the rest of the world for being even more fucked up than the Americans then. They nuked the Japanese and though it was not right, the shit they were pulling in those days was so sick and twisted.
And if America doesn't intervene in WW2 and help stop the Nazis, dickwads like Rev. Wright are either slaves or wiped off the face of the earth. Man, I should write a movie about political correctness, the culture of victimization and racial tensions in the style of "Dr. Strangelove." Might be controversial, but at least it would be funny and revolutionary damnit. |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Prodigal Son wrote:
If McCain can keep the flies off him, the Dems will have fucked themselves over again by choosing Obama.
McCain has a hard enough time staying awake...He is a complete imbecile...this story breaks and even before Obama's own people come up with an excuse, McCain comes out with one for him...Why?...Because he has his own bigoted pastor in the closet...Hagee...Not sure who will win...but one thing I know...when this election is over, somebody gonna be oppressed
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
PartyDoll MEG wrote:
I don't know why I have read this shit..but P. you have finally said what needs to be said.
I am sick to death of "dirt digging" done to discredit or ruin the competition..Oh and it will get worse. Never fear. It is politics
In the days when I was forced to attend Church and listen to sermons, I would look at those ministers in disbelief, and I went to every Church imaginable growing up. Some of those ministers, I socialized with. They did not affect how I think and live my life. But Obama does have to address it.
Same as Feej's bullshit isn't gonna change my mind one way or another. I read and decide for myself.
So here is all I offer to this thread. Commentary from Steven Walden http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwal...-responsib.html
Should a candidate be held responsible for the views of his or her pastor?
If we were all held accountable for the views of our clergymen/women, then no one would ever go to church/synagogue etc. Obama shouldn’t be held responsible for all the words of Jeremiah Wright. It is, however, totally fair to ask Obama what parts of Wright’s ideology he agrees with, and which he disagrees with.
The reality is that Americans deal with this kind of thing all the time in their own lives. They go to a church where the pastor repeatedly says things they disagree with and have to decide at what point it’s too much to stomach. Ironically, Wesley Clark was mocked in 2004 for leaving a church because the minister criticized the war. Howard Dean was criticized for leaving a church over land use or development policies.
Some people stay at such a church because they feel that part of a minister’s job is to challenge the views of his congregants. Some stay because the Sunday school is terrific. More commonly, I hear people say something like, “I don’t like the minister’s sermons, but he was so wonderful when my father died.” We should remember that the main purpose of a minister is spiritual. If he helps someone get closer to God, or find meaning, that matters tremendously.
So, it’s not sufficient for Obama to say Wright is a crazy uncle. He has to say what parts of Wright’s message he shares. More important, Obama needs to explain why he’s stayed at the church. It’s a totally legitimate question. If his answer is that, despite Wright’s views on politics and race, the church brought Obama spiritual meaning, then that needs to count for a lot.
[Edited by PartyDoll MEG]
The better question...and the correct question that my "bullshit" sets forth, and that I raised several times...and that none of those who think this is petty have answered, is should a candidate be held accountable for the viewpoints of his pastor for 20 years, the man he claims to be an inspiration, and the message of Black Liberation Theology when he has clearly accepted that message?
The man is the democrat front-runner...one election from leading our nation...I think the least people could do is figure out what he's about...or just see what's on his Ipod and call it good
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| Prodigal Son |
But overall, I tend to agree with Pdog's sentiments. Politics is such a sick game sometimes... no scratch that, all the time. Can't live with it, can't live without it. I judge people more on their listening tastes too. I've got musical aspirations myself but I also collect and listen to tons of it. Religion just don't move me the way music does. I went to a united church for a few years when I was younger but it just didn't change my thinking.
Then as it turns out the Rev. was like the Bill Clinton of the minster's world, sleeping with or hitting on every damn member of the pulpit he coudl get his hands on. Then I found out years later that the perv had been bouncing from church to church because of this and people were still employing him? How much shit does a man of the cloth get away with before someone puts a stop to him? Even politicians have a tougher time breaking the rules for so long (see Spitzer, Elliot).
The whole Obama and his minister thing isn't exactly why I don't find him a great future president. I don't think his experience helps but anyone who comes out with such grand ideas, sweeping reforms or inspired hope always turns out to be underpromising. Call me cynical but even if I was an American, his rhetoric wouldn't touch me or inspire me much. |
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| Riffhard |
This minister hates America. Hates whites. Hates the government.
He stated that the USA killed far people with the bomb in Hiroshima all the while ignoring the damage that a mainland attack on Japan would have done. He seemingly could care less if thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Japanese would have been killed in such an assault. He activily promotes the insane idea that "the white man uinvented AIDS" to destroy the black man, and that the CIA introduced crack into black neighborhoods! He holds up a raging anti semite up as a "great man" in Louis Farrakhan.
This is the man that Obama chose to marry him and his wife. This is the same man that Obama chose to baptize his children. You're goddamned right I think that Obama is an idiot for having anything to do with this race baiting America hating SOB. The fact that anyone here would even try and defend this is beyond absurd!!!!!
It goes to his judgment people. He has none, or he agrees with this man. Either way he's toast. He may still win the Dem nomination, but that's where it all ends. It's over, and it should be! He attended this church for twentey fucking years!!! He knew what this man thought! He held him up as his mentor!!!!
Romney, on the other hand, was born into his church, and he had the audacity (of hope?) to stay in it. How dare he! Obama chose this church after hearing this insane minister preach his particular brand of hate, and some act as if he shouldn't be held accountable for it?! Bullshit!
You loose this argument guys! You lose! It's over! The Obama wears no clothes!
Riffy
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| Fiji Joe |
We can all learn from this...this is what a very attractive woman has to say about what Obama has been listening to for the last 20 years and what Obama's spiritual adviser has been talking about..If people are contending you shouldn't know what ideas form the essence of a candidate, I'm not sure what we should be looking at...It's OK to judge a candidate on whether or not they have Bay City Roller records in their collection, but you shouldn't consider what ideas they subscribe to?
If you read up on this, you will see that Black Liberation Theology goes beyond God and religion and speaks to economic and social matters as well...so "the I don't care about his religion "bullshit" doesn't fly...unless you don't care about a candidate's economic or social ideas either...in which case, I would ask why vote?...or why post in this thread?
Looking at Obama and black liberation theology
Marie Jon'
Marie Jon'
February 19, 2008
Barack Obama belongs to an unabashedly Black African-centered church. Its teachings focus on a "black value" system. It has knowledgeable Americans questioning how Obama's church (Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ) and its pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Jr. influence the man who wants to be President of the United States.
Why couldn't Obama have chosen to be a Methodist, a Pentecostal or a Lutheran? What drew him to a church that many find questionable?
Many Americans attend churches their parents attended. Others choose denominations where they are comfortable with the teachings.
As a whole, the United Church of Christ does not teach black liberation theology. The main Conference of the denomination is responsible for the theological teachings of its churches and the manner in which they are presented.
The nagging question begs to be answered. Why would the top Democrat presidential candidate feel more comfortable attending an Afrocentric church? Obama's attendance at a church that encourages blacks to separate themselves from the rest of American society must be explained. How can he claim to be able to unite and reach across to all the people in the nation?
Excerpts from the Trinity United Church of Christ — Black Value System:
The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:
1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
American society has changed positively since the days of Martin Luther King and the freedom marches. Why is there this need by some to retreat back to the days of separatism while claiming that they are moving society forward?
Many people do not understand what black liberation theology is. If Mitt Romney found it necessary to make a speech about his Mormon faith, it's about time that Obama explain black theology. There has been much controversy over faith in this election year. However, Obama's church leaves something to be desired regarding social acceptability of its ideology. "Thus saith the Lord" is taught in quite a different fashion.
Black theology teachings began in America during the Civil Rights Movement. A demanding authority of presumptuousness was ushered in claiming black theology as the legitimate Voice of God to all black Americans.
The central theme of black theology puts an emphasis on the oppression of the black people. All aspects of this type of theology become a "subjugating theme."
According to mainstream doctrinal teaching, black theology falls short. Its cornerstone is one which focuses on the oppression of blacks. The biblical teaching in mainstream Christian denominations is Christ-centered. Their focus is the Lord Jesus Christ who was to come, came, and is coming once again, and will reign forever. "I am the LORD; and they shall be my people." (Jeremiah 24:7)
Is black theology one of hope or does it purposefully dredge up painful feelings of victimization? If that be the case, it would be wiser to consider a church where it is fully understood that God is no respecter of color or gender. (Acts 10:34)
The terminology of black theology is questionable amongst many biblical theologians. Its teaching is improperly centered in human pragmatism. The Lordship of Jesus Christ is not held in proper biblical perspective. Freedom has been granted to all who have become believers of the Living Word. We show our faith in Christ by living upright and reaching out in love to others.
If Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. is not asking the most important question of all, "who is Christ?", then he does his congregation a disservice. For it is from this premise that all questions can be answered. The teaching of a theology written by black men for black man presented to an exclusive segment of society can only be a stumbling block to God and a nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs.
Accepting Christ as Savior makes all the difference in the perception of the believer's life. His or her status in life is made abundantly clear. This question of what God has done through Christ is focused upon and no longer in doubt when we learn that we are God's children.
Is Christ able to save you? Is it the Lord who brings positive changes in your life today? Is the believer's walk moving forward and touching others for Christ's sake? The answer ought to be "yes," no matter what the color of our skin or gender.
In the final analysis, only by beginning to ask these questions for a starting point of Christian theology can black theology be defined. When one knows who Jesus Christ is, then man can begin to understand where God is in man's existence and problems, and how Christ will provide the help man so desperately needs.
The days of segregation are over. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (Galatians 3:28 )
The Goals Of Black Liberal Theology — Dr. Robert A. Morley, an internationally recognized scholar in the fields of theology and apologetics.
"l.The goals of BT are to turn religion into sociology, Christianity into a political agenda, Jesus into a black Marxist rebel, and the gospel into violent revolution. They are more interested in politics than preaching the gospel.
"III. The Methodology of Black Liberal Theology
"The main method employed by BT is to manipulate embittered young blacks by turning their feelings of inferiority, alienation, jealousy, hopelessness and self-hate, into racist rage against whites, Orientals and affluent blacks who are conveniently blamed for their lack of personal initiative to better their lot in life.
"IV. The Main Philosophic Error of Black Liberal Theology
"BT is based upon the philosophic error of relativism in which 'Jesus' is viewed as only a religious symbol which can be interpreted anyway they want. Thus it does not matter who and what the historical Jesus really was. BT invented a black Marxist Jesus to lead the way to violent revolution because such a 'Jesus' will serve their purpose. BT is condemned in II Cor. 11:4 and Gal. 1:8-9.
"V. The Racism Of Black Liberal Theology
"While BT is filled with racist statements against whites and Orientals, it is primarily a form of 'black on black' racism. The following evidence demonstrates this to be true.
"A. While BT claims to give blacks a better self-image, they unwittingly encourage a poor self-image among blacks by defining "blackness" in such negative terms as 'the poor,' 'the oppressed,' and 'niggers.' Why do they always define the 'black experience' in such negative terms? Why do they assume that all blacks live in the ghetto subsisting on welfare in the midst of crime and filth?
"B. With its constant emphasis on God loves the poor, the oppressed, etc. BT actually paralyzes and demoralizes blacks to accept a parasitic life- style dependent on the government dole instead of fostering self-reliance and entrepreneurship.
"C. It seems to me that BT feeds off of class envy and racist rage. Instead of spending their time blaming the white man for the black man's problems, BT ought to be encouraging black men or women to become financially successful through hard work and self-reliance.
"D. BT often describes the black man as a helpless victim of forces and people beyond his control. But this negative stereotype often leads people to accept poverty, drugs, crime and filth as their unalterable fate.
"E. BT makes a great mistake when it assumes that poverty automatically means crime and filth. Just because you are poor does not mean you have a license to rob, rape, or murder others. The poor are for the most part good and honest people. Crime is crime regardless of who commits it. Poverty is no excuse for criminality.
"F. BT judges people on the basis of the color of their skin instead of the content of their character.
"G. BT gives the impression that the black man's problem is his skin instead of his sin.
"H. Most BT books glorify rage, hatred and violence instead of faith, hope and love.
"I. BT preaches race instead of grace as the solution to problems.
"J. BT cries out for political liberation instead of spiritual salvation.
"K. BT thinks more of Marx than it does of Jesus.
"L. BT is more interested in black culture than in Jesus Christ.
"VI. The Liberalism Of Black Liberal Theology
"BT is not a fundamental, Bible-believing, Christ-honoring theology. BT was created by white liberation theologians at white liberal seminaries and universities that are radically anti-Christian and anti-Bible.
"A. Most of those involved in BT do not believe in the Trinity, the deity of Christ, His virgin birth, sinless life, vicarious death, bodily resurrection, literal ascension or return to this world. They claim that all such doctrines are 'Western.'
"B. Many of those who teach BT openly deny the immortality of the soul, a conscious after-life in heaven or hell, the resurrection of the dead, the Last Judgment and the eternal conscious torment of the damned in hell. They usually say that hell is 'being black on welfare in the ghetto.' They attack those blacks who talk about heaven as a 'pie in the sky by and by slave mentality.'
"C. BT often denounces Christianity as racist and the 'white man's religion.' But then it turns around and claims that Jesus was black. If Jesus was a black man, then how can Christianity be the 'white man's religion?'
"D. Most BT writers deny the inspiration, inerrancy and authority of the Bible while at the same time using it to foster their racist agenda.
"E. Many BT leaders teach the theory of evolution in which man evolved from an ape in Africa as if that theory can give dignity to blacks or to anyone else. The theory of evolution actually destroys all dignity and morals by reducing man to an animal.
"VII. The Absurdity of Black Liberal Theology
"BT is so filled with self-contradiction and erroneous ideas that it is has no intellectual merit. For example, BT defines 'blackness' and 'whiteness' in the Marxist sense of class struggle. Thus BT is not really talking about blackness as a race but as a class. Wake up! Read that last sentence again. Did you get it? Black liberal theology is really concerned with class struggle and not about black people per se. What is 'black' and 'white' according to the BT books?
"Black = anyone regardless of race or color who is economically and politically oppressed by the upper classes.
"White = anyone regardless of race or color who is guilty of oppressing the lower classes.
"Walter McCray in his book, The Black Presence In The Bible, quotes with approval the definition of blackness given by his liberal mentor, Charles Copher.
"Additionally, one may be defined as black regardless of color or race; all who suffer oppression...are classified as black.(p. 161, n.72.)
"This irrational definition ends up with some white people being 'black' and some black people being "white." According to BT's definition, a blond, blue- eyed, white Swede on drugs and welfare is 'black' while the successful black man who owns his own company is 'white.' Other absurdities abound in their writings.
"A. BT claims that Adam and Eve were black. If this is true, then all men are 'black' because they came from the first black parents. On what grounds then does BT divide up mankind into black vs white and black vs yellow? Aren't we all 'black' having come from the same original black DNA?
"B. BT claims that Noah, his wife and their three sons and wives were all blacks. Yet, they also claim that the blacks descended from Ham. And they run through the Bible looking for Hamite references to track the history of the black race. How can this obvious contradiction be resolved ?
"C. As part of its Marxist ideology, BT believes that history is as relative as morals. Thus BT rewrites history to foster its own socio-political goals. This is why BT does not hesitate to teach lies and to practice academic chicanery. The 'truth' is not their concern. To manipulate young blacks into racist rage is always their real goal.
"D. BT claims that nearly every individual and nation mentioned in the Bible was black. They do not prove that this true. They simply asset that this is so. Anyone who disagrees with them is labeled a racist.
"E. BT claims that the ancient Sumerians, Assyrians, Babylonians and Persians were all black. Yet, they were the cruelest oppressors known in history. For example, the Assyrians enslaved and deported entire populations. Mass murder was their favorite means of oppression. How can they be "black" when they were worse oppressors than Hitler or Stalin?
"F. BT claims that the ancient Egyptians were black and that the Jews were black as well. But since the Egyptians were a very oppressive society which enslaved the Jews and other minorities and conquered many surrounding nations, how can the Egyptians be 'black' and oppress people at the same time?
"G. BT just like the KKK and other racist groups claims that its race is the sole source of all that is good in all cultures. But this is a two edged sword. If the blacks are responsible for all the good in the world, then they are equally responsible for all the evil. To claim that the black man can do no wrong and that the white man and yellow man can do no good, is absurd as well as racist.
"H. BT claims that the ancient Greeks were black and thus Greek philosophy was created by blacks. But then BT also says that the white Greeks stole their philosophy from African blacks. How can the Greeks be black and white at the same time? But if they were all blacks, then what is wrong with blacks sharing ideas?
"I. BT claims that the Greeks stole their ideas from black Africans and thus all the good in Western culture comes from blacks. But if this is true, how can BT condemn Western culture on one hand and then claim that it came from blacks on the other hand?
"J. BT also claims that all the good in Oriental culture came from African blacks. The Orientals thus stole their culture from the blacks. But if this is true, why are African motifs missing in Oriental philosophies and art?
"K. BT authors claim that the Egyptian word Kemet means 'the land of the Blacks.' In reality, the word actually means 'the black land' referring to the dark soil along the flood plain of the Nile. It is used in Egyptian literature in opposition to the word Deshret which literally means 'the red land,' a reference to the color of the dirt or sand in the desert.
"VIII. Black Liberal Theology Contradicts The Bible
"In order to make everyone in the Bible black, BT takes passages out of context, ignores the grammar of Hebrew and Greek, and then attacks anyone who disagrees with them as 'racist' or 'white.' But BT violates several clear Scriptures.
"1. Acts 17:26 "He made from one all the nations of mankind to live on all the face of the earth."
"The Bible teaches that there is only one race — the human race — regardless of size, shape or color. Thus there is no "black" or 'white' blood. There is only human blood which can be transfused from one man to the next regardless of color or race. BT con-tradicts this by talking about "black blood."
"2. Rom. 2:11 "There is no partiality with God."
"God does not treat people any differently because they are red, yellow, black or white. They are all precious in His sight. But BT claims that God is partial to blacks! This is just as wrong as the Nazis who claimed the same thing for the Ayrian race or the KKK who claims the same for the white race.
"3. Gal. 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
"BT divides the Church into different economic classes and pits them against each other. Thus they try to put asunder what God has joined together. The Body of Christ is one.
"4. Eph. 4:4-5:2 "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you. Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."
BT preaches bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, slander and that blacks should seek revenge instead of taking the path of forgiveness.
"5. 1 Sam 16:7 "But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart."
"BT looks only at the outward appearance. This is wrong. We must judge people not by their color but by their moral character or lack of it.
Conclusion :
"Black liberal theology is not of God but of the devil. It is nothing more than 'white liberal religion' and is used by white theologians and politicians to keep blacks down in order to use them as cannon fodder for a Marxist revolution. Black liberal theologians slave for their white Marxist masters to bring about a violent revolution that would guarantee that all men, blacks included, would always be poor and oppressed. The only answer to liberal theology, regardless of the color of those who teach it, is personal salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you have experienced the love of God in Christ, you do not have any room in you heart for the self-hate and racist rage upon which BT feeds. The black community needs a revival — not a revolution; Jesus — not Marx; Christianity — not liberalism. Jesus is the only One who can change the hearts of all men and set them free from their bondage to sin."
May God add blessings to His Word: "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things are passed away; behold, new things have come." (2 Corinthians 5:17).
"A person with a history of Islamism and militancy in his family who was running for his party's nomination for President might think that being closely allied with a militant pastor (Trinity United Church of Christ's Reverend Jeremiah Wright) was a tad risky. The fallout from that blowing up in his face had barely cleared when on June 23, 2007, he decided to attack the 'Religious Right' " for 'hijacking faith.' " Erik Rush
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/jon/080219
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| PartyDoll MEG |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
The better question...and the correct question that my "bullshit" sets forth, and that I raised several times...and that none of those who think this is petty have answered, is should a candidate be held accountable for the viewpoints of his pastor for 20 years, the man he claims to be an inspiration, and the message of Black Liberation Theology when he has clearly accepted that message?
The man is the democrat front-runner...one election from leading our nation...I think the least people could do is Bigure out what he's about...or just see what's on his Ipod and call it good
Don't get me started on religion..
Obama is not responsible for what his minister preaches..he is responsible for himself and how he lives his life. It would be like saying that the parishoners of St Joseph's are responsible for their pedophile priests.
You don't know if Obama accepted "Black Liberation." You know he finds his minister an "inspiration." People inspire you in different ways about different things..Like the Beatles inspire Bucky...who the hell knows. Did you even read Obama's book. I haven't so I can't even comment on that.
I am not gonna "tar and feather" Obama over this issue. Obviously, he needs to address it and he has already done so. We need to listen and read and use our common sense when we are confronted with the "fear tactics" used by the opposition (could be the Hiliary camp too ya know). And I will continue to use this philosophy for both presidential candidates. And lets face it Feej..we will have to sift through lots of shit no matter who the candidates end up being.
Ok..I'm done ..no more politics
I hate politics |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
PartyDoll MEG wrote:
Don't get me started on religion..
Obama is not responsible for what his minister preaches..he is responsible for himself and how he lives his life. It would be like saying that the parishoners of St Joseph's are responsible for their pedophile priests.
You don't know if Obama accepted "Black Liberation." You know he finds his minister an "inspiration." People inspire you in different ways about different things..Like the Beatles inspire Bucky...who the hell knows. Did you even read Obama's book. I haven't so I can't even comment on that.
I am not gonna "tar and feather" Obama over this issue. Obviously, he needs to address it and he has already done so. We need to listen and read and use our common sense when we are confronted with the "fear tactics" used by the opposition (could be the Hiliary camp too ya know). And I will continue to use this philosophy for both presidential candidates. And lets face it Feej..we will have to sift through lots of shit no matter who the candidates end up being.
Ok..I'm done ..no more politics
I hate politics
I'm not religious myself...but as I said, he has attended this church and sat through these sermons for 20 years...it's fair, I think, to assume that he subscribes to Black Liberation Theology when that's what is preached...It's also fair not to believe him when he denies it...It's bullshit by any standard...I read your account of religion and I have similar experiences...the difference being, we were more or less forced to attend those services...Obama was not...he sought those services out...and that's in his own words...and he sat through these sermons when he knew what they were about...and as I said, this particular religion goes beyond God and speaks to marxism and racism....so it's not just a matter of his religion and not making an issue of it
I do find it peculiar that a man who constantly speaks of one America practices a religion that, by any standard, is as polarizing as any religion you will find...if you know what it's all about
What do I think the truth is?...That Obama never paid enough attention to what was being said in his church and by his inspiration...and that he used the church more for a political benefit than anything else....but I'm not ready to give him that benefit of the doubt...and in any event, what does that say about his judgment and principle?
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| Riffhard |
What kind of person would want thier children to hear this kind of hate mongering?! Can I ask that question? It goes to his judgment for fuck's sake. What the fuck is so hard to understand about that?!
Religion may not mean shit to some of you, but it sure as hell means alot to Obama. He did say that this man is his mentor afterall. This minister holds an important position in his campaign staff even today! That anyone would say that Barrack's musical tastes are more important than his religion is just flat out stupid! Barrack never once claimed that Prince was his mentor. The Back Street Boys did not baptize his children.
He has claimed that his minister was his inspiration, and anyone who questions this inspiration is just playing dirty politics?! Come off it!!
He's toast!
Riffy |
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
Riffhard wrote:
The Back Street Boys did not baptize his children.
Oh but I bet they wanted to... |
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| Fiji Joe |
And so we're not just thinking that this Pastor made these comments on his way out the door and then Obama did the right thing, this was said by 5 years ago...There are other examples as well
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Pulpit Profanity
The retiring pastor of Barack Obama's church — the Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr. — said in a sermon five years ago that black people should ask God to curse America — instead of bless it.
ABC News reports the following from a 2003 sermon — "The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people. God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
Senator Obama declined to comment publicly. But a spokesman says the senator had repudiated the comments.
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He repudiates them now...but where were you 5 years ago?...brother? |
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| pdog |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
The better question...and the correct question that my "bullshit" sets forth, and that I raised several times...and that none of those who think this is petty have answered, is should a candidate be held accountable for the viewpoints of his pastor for 20 years, the man he claims to be an inspiration, and the message of Black Liberation Theology when he has clearly accepted that message?
The man is the democrat front-runner...one election from leading our nation...I think the least people could do is figure out what he's about...or just see what's on his Ipod and call it good
Manson is an inspiration too many. Shit some are good friends of mine! |
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| LadyJane |
quote:
PartyDoll MEG wrote:
Don't get me started on religion..
Obama is not responsible for what his minister preaches..he is responsible for himself and how he lives his life. It would be like saying that the parishoners of St Joseph's are responsible for their pedophile priests.
You don't know if Obama accepted "Black Liberation." You know he finds his minister an "inspiration." People inspire you in different ways about different things..Like the Beatles inspire Bucky...who the hell knows. Did you even read Obama's book. I haven't so I can't even comment on that.
I am not gonna "tar and feather" Obama over this issue. Obviously, he needs to address it and he has already done so. We need to listen and read and use our common sense when we are confronted with the "fear tactics" used by the opposition (could be the Hiliary camp too ya know). And I will continue to use this philosophy for both presidential candidates. And lets face it Feej..we will have to sift through lots of shit no matter who the candidates end up being.
Ok..I'm done ..no more politics
I hate politics
Meg you raise a good point.
However I can honestly say that if a Priest in a church I was attending started spouting off at the mouth in anti-American terms I would stand up and walk out of the service. I have done so in the past re sexist remarks.
I would also refrain from any further affiliations.
Clearly Sen Obama is a smart man. He HAS to know that when you enter the political race for POTUS the microscope is HUGE. Yet, he continued to "embrace" Rev Wright until NOW.
That troubles me as does Michelle Obama's earlier comments re her "never feeling proud of her Country until now".
Sen Obama, imo, lacks the experience needed to run this country. Vice President, maybe.
I am not jumping on the "he is a plant for Radical Islam" either. That is insane. THAT is a fear tactic.
Clearly, Sen Clinton had a point when she said "I've been vetted". For Sen Obama, it has just begun.
LJ.
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| Fiji Joe |
quote:
LadyJane wrote:
Meg you raise a good point.
However I can honestly say that if a Priest in a church I was attending started spouting off at the mouth in anti-American terms I would stand up and walk out of the service. I have done so in the past re sexist remarks.
I would also refrain from any further affiliations.
Clearly Sen Obama is a smart man. He HAS to know that when you enter the political race for POTUS the microscope is HUGE. Yet, he continued to "embrace" Rev Wright until NOW.
That troubles me as does Michelle Obama's earlier comments re her "never feeling proud of her Country until now".
Sen Obama, imo, lacks the experience needed to run this country. Vice President, maybe.
I am not jumping on the "he is a plant for Radical Islam" either. That is insane. THAT is a fear tactic.
Clearly, Sen Clinton had a point when she said "I've been vetted". For Sen Obama, it has just begun.
LJ.
Well said...he accepted the message because it benefited him to do so...and now when it bites him in the ass, he's playing the I can't be responsible for what the "crazy old uncle" says card...But Hill has to own everything Bill says...Why does he hate America?...and crazy old uncles? |
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