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| Fiji Joe |
" don�t think the world can be a peaceful place as long as one person�s work is worth so much less in the third world than in Europe or the US. There should be a global agreement about everything that makes this double standard exist : custom laws and agreements, political pressure upon poor countries, and one thing particularly important to me : agricultural techniques."
And now we know the real agenda...global socialism...No way in hell Fiji's gonna bust his ass 12 hours a day while some lazy fuckwit takes a 20 minute break every hour to pray to a God I do not acknowledge and whose tenets operate to subjugate 75% of the population (women and children)...
Good point you make Caro...and now I think that this wealth distribution you speak of has no chance in any land which is ruled by a dictator or some quasi-dictorial oligarchy...hence the necessity of democracy...I've said this before...the war in Iraq had nothing to do with WMDs...that was just the selling point Bush and Blair thought would curry world favor...the true reason we're there is to establish a democracy in the middle east and thereby put pressure on other middle-eastern nations to follow suit...as you see, by accomplishing that, those countries, own their own accord, will reach the level of wealth distribution and basic human rights you feel is necessary and at the same time, by improving the conditions of people as a whole, and moving their society away from islamic fundamentalism, you create an environment that is not conducive to producing large scale terrorism and then, the wolrd becomes a safer place
There are basically two ways you can fight a war on terrorism 1) Kill every one you think is a terrorist or could be terrorist (this option is not workable short of JB's solution of genocide) or 2) rid the world of the conditions that allow terrorism to breed (which are some of the same conditions you spoke of above - poverty, etc. - the other conditions are tyranny, opression and governments that use religion to oppress and frigthen their populations into submission)...Now, Bush and Blair, the nitwits as the world sees them, have shrewdly and humanely opted for the second option in the hopes that the first option would never be necessary...Why Iraq?...because by all accounts, Iraq was the most secular nation in the middle-east and because a democracy in that region, of that size, would put tremendous pressure on Iran (where, by even from the mouths of its hard-line religious leaders, is a nation teetering on the brink of a democratic revolution) and Saudi Arabia to follow suit...the war had nothing to do with WMDs...Chirac knew that...Schroeder knew that...yet the two of them used a politically popular anti-war and anti-american sentiment for their own political gain and at the same time, by not showing unity with the coalition of the willing, enabled and encouraged those persons who now operate to kill American soldiers on a daily basis as well as those persons who, just recently, sent 200 Spainards to their death...And I personally, will never forget their stance on this issue
As I said, and said far before the war in Iraq began, WMDs has diddly to do with America's actions...your leaders, rest assured, know this...And you may ask why was this basis never presented by Bush or Blair?...well, the fact that you and others never reached this conclusion on your own, and the fact that I've spent 20 minutes explaining it to you, tells me that your average nitwit, be he European or American, is incapable of even grasping, much less supporting this concept...
I agree whole-heartedly agree with Nanker statements...to compare America with Al Queda and others is quite possibly, the most ridiculous statement ever uttered...I challenge you to search the history of mankind, in any era, and find a more compassionate and caring super power or more forgiving victor...you think the Russians would have allowed Germany to exist but for our intervention?...did they or any other country spend a dime to reconstruct that nation as a democracy and return to them their own soveriegnty (which, by the way, was vehemently opposed by virtually every other Europen nation)?...I have said this before, unless certain nations change their attitudes towards what is clearly a global threat, your children and mine, will pay a heavy price...At a time in world history where we have a unique opportunity to rid the world of the conditions that breed murder and oppression, some people are not only choosing not to join, but are actively hindering such action...those people should be ashamed...I, as an American, am not ashamed
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| justforyou |
Yes, thats all very well with global politics, but we are talking about human lives here....innocent people getting killed....when is it worth sacrificing someone's life ? In my opinion never.
The peoples need to grow up, be less selfish and love each other more...yeah, yeah but hey....it's true. |
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| Fiji Joe |
"Yes, thats all very well with global politics, but we are talking about human lives here....innocent people getting killed....when is it worth sacrificing someone's life ? In my opinion never."
You see...this is exactly the kind of knee-jerk, hemp-smoking statement I've been referring to...what do you mean "never"...How many lives were lost in Europe in the last 100 years because of this frame of thought?...People like you killed far more people than Hitler ever did..Like it or not, your very existence as you know it exists because someone sacrificed their life so that you may enjoy that existence...you think whatever selfish thoughts help you sleep well at night...damn your children and damn those who could use your help
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| caro |
Fiji, you have obviously no idea what "socialism" means. The custom laws and trade agreements I was talking about often prevent third world countries from exporting their stuff, or even from producing and selling stuff in their own country with reasonable prices. Suppressing or changing those agreements means, on the long term, creating a real global free market. Which is traditionnally more of a right-wing idea.
I already addressed the rest of what you said in my previous posts. Oh, I forgot the trivia :
quote:
people need to think long and hard about the importance of Iraq and the reasons for being there...I really hate just giving people the answer...it means so much more when they figure it out themselves
(...)
the true reason we're there is to establish a democracy in the middle east and thereby put pressure on other middle-eastern nations to follow suit
Fuck. Thought the answer would be "because we saved your asses in 1944". My bad.
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| justforyou |
quote:
Fiji Joe wrote:
damn your children and damn those who could use your help
I am shocked at your respectless attitude. You should have your sorry ass kicked out of this place... Are you a terrorrist - wishing sorrow upon those you don't know ?
It seems to me you are trying to justify war and sacrifice. War and death sucks big time and my 'damned-hemp-hippie-loser' views despise solving problems through such means.
Try and look from another way - how many lives have been saved by a war ? Was it terrorrism to firebomb Hamburg during WWII ? Hiroshima ? Or is it selfishness ? - a solution where the opposing side loses more - we are all human, and from whatever nation, the respect for peoples lives should be the same.
[Edited by justforyou] |
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| Fiji Joe |
Good point just for you...Perhaps America and Britain should have left Germany alone...next time we'll make a note of that...and if you had half a sense of history you would know that's exactly what happened in Dresden and Hiroshima...lives were saved
[Edited by Fiji Joe] |
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| glencar |
Why do so many Euros lie down when it comes to defending the West & our values? Soon enough, the US & its few allies (UK & Italy & Poland & Portugal) will get tired of carrying the load. Good luck & remember to prostrate yourself when you pray to Allah. |
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| telecaster |
quote:
glencar wrote:
Why do so many Euros lie down when it comes to defending the West & our values? Soon enough, the US & its few allies (UK & Italy & Poland & Portugal) will get tired of carrying the load. Good luck & remember to prostrate yourself when you pray to Allah.
And don't forget our great friends the Aussies
They are rock solid
CNN just reported a "high value target" is surrounded in Pakistan
[Edited by telecaster] |
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| glencar |
Good catch, Tele! I was just going to list the first two & then I remembered the latter two & I know tehre are several other nations. Not enough though. |
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| Fiji Joe |
Hey, don't forget Thailand |
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| glencar |
And I should've included the Baltic states... |
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| Mikey |
Hey Glennie,
Where you been? |
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| Joey |
" Hey, don't forget Thailand "
Who can forget Bangkok ?!?!?!
Shiver .................................
" Phenom Phen Ronnie ?!?! "
J.C.
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| glencar |
Been around Mikey. Buried under work & not enjoying life as much. Yourself? |
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| Mikey |
same. Love the Eagles pick up of TO and just checking NCAA scores. Hope you had Manhattan over Florida... |
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| Joey |
I had Maryland ..................and you ?!?! |
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| Fiji Joe |
You simply cannot make this stuff up...
From Fox News...
A French Legionnaire was accidentally shot and killed by another French soldier who was cleaning his rifle. It was the first fatality for international peacekeepers in Haiti, the U.S. military said in a statement Sunday.
The soldier was wounded Saturday night in northern Gonaives (search), where he was working with the Third French Foreign Legion Infantry Regiment. He was flown by helicopter to a French ship off Haiti's coast, where he later died.
And with that bullet gone, an ammunition re-supply is enroute
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| jb |
We must learn from the IDF...we got him!!! |
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| telecaster |
quote:
jb wrote:
We must learn from the IDF...we got him!!!
That was a nice hit jb
Good job |
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| jb |
quote:
telecaster wrote:
That was a nice hit jb
Good job
Yes Tele...why George W. has not allowed the Israelis to get Bin Laden is a mystery to me... |
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| Joey |
" Yes Tele...why George W. has not allowed the Israelis to get Bin Laden is a mystery to me... "
Agreed .....................if you want the job done right , get the Israelis to do it .
And now , THIS :
Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Jacky !
Jacky !
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| Ben Gurion |
Josh - has Israel started the move into your palatial manse yet? I know launching missiles from South Florida will be a bit more difficult - but don't worry, D.C. will fund it. |
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| jb |
quote:
Ben Gurion wrote:
Josh - has Israel started the move into your palatial manse yet? I know launching missiles from South Florida will be a bit more difficult - but don't worry, D.C. will fund it.
I donated over 5k this year to help my people overcome the Gibsons and Arafats of this world...we will not stop until every Arab/Muslim terrorist is smoked out of his cave and brutalily killed... |
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| Joey |
" Josh - has Israel started the move into your palatial manse yet? I know launching missiles from South Florida will be a bit more difficult - but don't worry, D.C. will fund ............................ "
Actually , I MYSELF have started the move into Joshy's palatial manse .
He wants me to make him a " drinker " again ( circa college / law school years ) .
Developing .................................
Moving .....................................
Jercee ! |
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| Ben Gurion |
quote:
Joey wrote:
" Josh - has Israel started the move into your palatial manse yet? I know launching missiles from South Florida will be a bit more difficult - but don't worry, D.C. will fund ............................ "
Actually , I MYSELF have started the move into Joshy's palatial manse .
He wants me to make him a " drinker " again ( circa college / law school years ) .
Developing .................................
Moving .....................................
Jercee !
I think you have just solved the mid east conflict dearest Joeykins.
We need to ship them all tons of chiba. They can grow it in Afghanistan, thus helping their economy. Then ship it to Israel pronto...
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| Ben Gurion |
quote:
jb wrote:
I donated over 5k this year to help my people overcome the Gibsons and Arafats of this world...we will not stop until every Arab/Muslim terrorist is smoked out of his cave and brutalily killed...
Muslims, Jews, Christians.
The Unholy Trinity.
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| jb |
The lesson to be learned from this is that Jews will not allow those seeking our destruction to go unpunished....this "preacher of death" was the epitome of evil....he was the mastermimd behind the homicide bombings...we warned them to stop or their leaders would be targeted...we kept our word....Long live Zion... |
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| Joey |
" I think you have just solved the mid east conflict dearest Joeykins.
We need to ship them all tons of chiba. They can grow it in Afghanistan, thus helping their economy. Then ship it to Israel pronto... "
Lamby ....................Please ! Come and " Uncake " your young Joeykins !
" Stones Rule ! ...............Bastards ! "
Jazzy !
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| Monkey Woman |
quote:
nankerphelge wrote:
"Just a word for Nanky: when you say you accept criticism and then at once add that you take it as a personnal, hateful attack, it's the same thing as saying you don't accept criticism."
That is a complete mischaracterization of what I said.
I said that I could accept someone saying that the war in Iraq was not just. That, to me, is a fair criticism -- something that could be debated without resorting to personal slurs against an entire people.
But I find it personally offensive when someone characterizes my country as no better than Al Q, or the US as a nation of people that blindly follow their leader without a thought in their collective heads of why they are at war. That, to me, is a cop out -- no better than characterizing all Europeans as cowards or all Jews as a bunch of people that killed the son of God just like Mel Gibson says!! (That's an attempt at levity and to jerk Josh's chain)
OK, I see what you mean. And let me tell you one thing: I agree!!! Yes, it's true. I'm not kidding.
I hope I made myself clear in what I posted here (though it's sometimes difficult in all the craziness around...) but I don't think I ever said that the USA is no better than Al-Qaeda. I did said that I thought what G.W.Bush did was both unjust and dangerous, and that a lot of people in the world have their reasons to refuse to be associated with it.
But I didn't say that the USA is no better than Al-Qaeda. Others did, on this board and elsewhere (I'm not naming names, if someone talked out of their ass, they don't deserve to be remembered).
And for the record, I'll tell it again. The USA is a democracy, whatever its flaws and the vagary of its policies, with whom Europe has had many ties of blood, opinion and economic cooperation throughout more than 2 centuries. We can agree or disagree, but we are still very close and have to respect each other. Al-Qaeda on the other hand is an insane, bloodthirsty, criminal organization that want to bring on chaos, destroy the western democracies and enslave all the muslims in the world in the strangling binds of a medieval theocracy.
Not even close.
Well, I more often post to defend an opinion than to attack one, and generally these times, on english-speaking forums, a bunch of red-blooded Bush supporters come out of the closet  and start laying into hapless Euros, so I react. But I don't want to associate myself with the wackos of the other camp either. (In fact, I sometimes have to restrain my radical French friends when the subject of America comes on the table...)
quote:
I don't want to beat a dead horse.
I am an American white male lawyer of Anglo-Saxon decent and Christian upbringing.
I AM USED TO TAKING THE HEAT FOR EVERYTHING WRONG IN THE WORLD!!
(On a lighter note.) Ooooh! Poor Nanky! Well, if you end up a martyr, we'll burn candles for you and chant your praises.  |
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| nankerphelge |
Thanks for taking the time to listen to my bluster!
And for what it is worth, none of my anger was directed at you from the get-go!
Now back to our program.... |
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