ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board

RIP Matt Mulcahy aka Riffhard64
[THE WET PAGE] [IORR NEWS] [SETLISTS 1962-2003] [THE A/V ROOM] [THE ART GALLERY] [MICK JAGGER] [KEITHFUCIUS] [CHARLIE WATTS ] [RON WOOD] [BRIAN JONES] [MICK TAYLOR] [BILL WYMAN] [IAN STEWART ] [NICKY HOPKINS] [MERRY CLAYTON] [IAN 'MAC' McLAGAN] [BERNARD FOWLER] [LISA FISCHER] [DARRYL JONES] [BOBBY KEYS] [JAMES PHELGE] [CHUCK LEAVELL] [LINKS] [PHOTOS] [MAGAZINE COVERS] [MUSIC COVERS ] [JIMI HENDRIX] [BOOTLEGS] [TEMPLE] [GUESTBOOK] [ADMIN]

[CHAT ROOM aka THE FUN HOUSE] [RESTROOMS]

NEW: SEARCH ZONE:
Search for goods, you'll find the impossible collector's item!!!
Enter artist an start searching using "Power Search" (RECOMMENDED) inside.
Search for information in the wet page, the archives and this board:

PicoSearch
ROCKS OFF - The Rolling Stones Message Board
Register | Update Profile | F.A.Q. | Admin Control Panel

Topic: For all the spanish here (and everywhere) Return to archive Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
03-13-04 05:02 PM
asdeguia from Madrid...

FIRST OF ALL....THKS for all support

....well well ..... Prodigal Son .... is not so ...here things don�t work so....

" And for Muslims who are immigrants that have nothing to do with Al-Quaeda, it only causes more racial profiling, prejudice and paranoia directed to them"

...WE ARE DEEPLY SORRY STILL but we can-have- still avoid this and "cope" with the situation.... AND CAN MAKE THE DIFERENCE BETWEEN A TERRORIST AND A HUMAN BEING

I KNOW THIS CITY...... and the minority is from Madrid ... as many big cities

and if you see in our history the muslim culture were here once....for many many years ....

WE HAVE LEARNED TO TOLERATE....
03-13-04 10:28 PM
Monkey Woman Well said, asdeguia. These last two days, when watching the news, what impressed me most was the courage and dignity of the Spanish. This is a terrible thing to happen but I think it would take a lot more to bring strong racial hatred in this country.
03-13-04 11:02 PM
jaggergurl many sympathies and warm thoughts to you, Lour and to your country... we will keep Spain in our prayers...
03-13-04 11:20 PM
LadyJane "WE HAVE LEARNED TO TOLERATE....",

But it is enough??!!

Welcome, asdeguia!!

Your country has shown great dignity while demanding justice.

I have great respect for the Spanish people!

LJ.
03-14-04 04:47 AM
Prodigal Son Well, that is very good to hear. Unfortunately, several countries with ultra-conservative sectors will use this to further their anti-anything Middle East stance.
03-14-04 01:50 PM
Monkey Woman Just heard on the news, another bloody suicide attack in Israel. Horrible. It's not quite the same problem (not Al-Qaeda and closely linked to the very tangled problem of the occupied territories), but there's one thing we should never forget: there is no "good" and "bad" terrorism, there's just terrorism. Let's have a though for the victims, and hope that peace can be achieved despite everything.
03-14-04 02:47 PM
Gazza >there's one thing we should never forget: there is no "good" and "bad" terrorism, there's just terrorism.

exactly. Theres nothing sickens me more than hypocrites who condemn it in one situation then justify or make excuses it for it somewhere else.

And the scale of it is irrelevant too. Its as wrong whether it kills three people or three thousand people. The principle and the intent are still the same. Its inexcusable in any civilised society.
03-15-04 03:09 AM
FotiniD
quote:
Gazza wrote:
exactly. Theres nothing sickens me more than hypocrites who condemn it in one situation then justify or make excuses it for it somewhere else.



I agree terrorism is crime and there are no motives or reasons to justify it in any case; killing innocent people is not a way to claim rights or draw attention or anything, it's pure crime and it should be condemned by all.

However, I do think the people - all of us, regardless of nationality - are the victims of political / money / war games played among the "good" guys and the "bad" guys - who in my book fall all under the second category. In other words, Bush has put up his best efforts during the past few years to lead things where they are today, giving the opportunity to people like Osama or whoever, to take advantage and produce results like September 11 or March 11. Stupid little men who think they're great, all with their "missions" in their heads have always led humanity to the worst destructions ever since history was started.

So I think we should indeed fight terrorism - but in all its forms, even the most concealed.
03-15-04 08:56 AM
UGot2Rollme Like the vast majority of people in this world I am shocked and saddened by this tragic loss of innocent lives. To add insult to injury, it now seems that it might have changed the results of the national election, which is exactly what the terrorists wanted to do... The new Socialist party has announced that Spain is now moving support out of Iraq - fine if that's what the majority of the people really wanted but sad if it was influenced by last week's terrorist act.

03-15-04 11:36 AM
jb Indeed, the new leader of Spain announced today that his first act will be to withdraw spanish troops from Iraq. The terrorists, tragically, have succeeded.
03-15-04 12:27 PM
Jumacfly
quote:
jb wrote:
Indeed, the new leader of Spain announced today that his first act will be to withdraw spanish troops from Iraq. The terrorists, tragically, have succeeded.



JB, Spanish people didn t want war hu???
03-15-04 12:32 PM
jb My sincerest condolences go out to all of those in Spain ..however, isn't the very point of terrorism to scare people ? It seems this cowardly act has "scared" the newly elected government to abandon it's support on the war on terror. I don't think that is an encouraging sign. Nonetheless, that's what a democracy is all about and if that's the decision, we have to respect it, no matter how much we may disagree.
03-15-04 12:35 PM
Monkey Woman About the new spanish leader's decision to pull their troops out of Iraq, we shouldn't think it's any kind of terrorist victory.

First, beccause Zapatero (the socialist leader and new head of government) intended from the beginning, and had said so very clearly during the campaign. It's not a panic reaction.

Secondly, because they said the Spanish troops will leave Iraq on the June 30th, the day the coalition intend to transfer the leadership to the Iraqi themselves. So it's not as if they left before their task is ended.

Thirdly, there are many ways to fight terrorism. The war in Iraq didn't help reduce the menace, as the Istambul, Marrakech, Madrid and other attacks sadly showed. It's very important now that security agencies work together, not only in Europe and America but also in the muslim countries (Morocco now is working closely with the Spanish justice and police, for instance). The Al-Qaeda organization is global and the search for these criminals must be global.

And remember that Al-Qaeda and other madmen don't care a jot about who's in charge in the democracies. They want war, chaos and internal strife among their "ennemies", i.e. us.
03-15-04 12:38 PM
Jumacfly Agree Jb.. peace
03-15-04 12:38 PM
jb Good points Monkey Woman...we will have to see what happens. I personally fear this was a precursor to more horrendous acts....I hope I am wrong.
03-15-04 12:42 PM
Monkey Woman I hope too, jb. This is a troubled time. All good people have to stand together and be strong.
03-15-04 12:46 PM
Jumacfly good point MW
03-15-04 12:56 PM
telecaster
quote:
Monkey Woman wrote:
About the new spanish leader's decision to pull their troops out of Iraq, we shouldn't think it's any kind of terrorist victory.




It is a HUGE victory for terrorists because the see they influenced the election. Because of their perceived success we will now have more of the same

This ain't group hug time
03-15-04 01:03 PM
Jumacfly Don 't you think the fact that Aznar sent troops in Iraq, against spanish people( which also means the electors) must be another reason for socialist democraty?

isn t there a Spanish friend here that could tell us more?? sometimes you haven t got the same vision when you re not in the place hu??


03-15-04 01:32 PM
asdeguia ...ok ....things here (Madrid - Spain) aren�t so simply:
"11-M the attack" so we vote against the goverment....
--- JUST NO ----

people were having or we are having another reasons:
i can mention a few REASONS...but the "FEW" are always the same preceed for a change...can be resume: Goverement DON�T HEAR PEOPLE�S WISH....and not only in War Case.... it�s everything: education, homes, work ..... and the last thing was the 11-M ...because its proximity in time to election....the way they manipulate the information....in fact they were doing all the time with everything....but when the dead bodies are still hot (following days) and the start to discuss if is Eta or ALQAEDA ...for the goverment was more electoral ETA .... for the other wasn�t. Is then when u realize their nature..... but i insist we were having big problems.... and i�m not big politician supporter......none of them

and i�m afraid and i don�t want to ofend anybody...it�s very easy to say things now about here..... analize this...when you have read a paper or a news from Spain...the answer is from las 11-M true??? so quite easy to judge..... (right Jumacfly)

...other things were happening before that may help for the change in the last election.....

AND ABOUT ALL "TERRORIST VICTORY". pls see demonstrations on 13-M ....

and JB "to abandon it's support on the war on terror"
......NO COMENT

....so regards.....
03-15-04 01:36 PM
Monkey Woman
quote:
telecaster wrote:


It is a HUGE victory for terrorists because the see they influenced the election. Because of their perceived success we will now have more of the same

This ain't group hug time


I see what you mean, tele, but that's not what the terrorists care about most. Their goal is to take power in muslim countries, and they'll use anything, either Iraq or another pretext, to destabilize the "satanic" western democratic model. Because they want to build a wall between the muslims and the rest of the world.

One must remember that the Al-Qaeda attacks started long before the war in Iraq: 1993, the 1st World Trade Center bombings, then attacks against American troops in Kenya and Saudi Arabia. At the time, they claimed the presence of Americans defiled the "holy land" of Saudi Arabia! And they never stop ranting about Israel, whose very existence they hate.


[Edited by Monkey Woman]
03-15-04 01:53 PM
jb That is why Israel and the US never negotiate with terrorists....I still say we must build a fence around the entire continental U.S. with high tech surveillance and if someone attempts to enter illegally, they should be jarred with over 1000 volts of electrcity...
03-15-04 05:33 PM
Fiji Joe Well, be sure, that at this rate...your children will be lucky if the worst they endure is back-packs filled with dynamite...I think some just do not get it...dynamite today, nuclear bomb tomorrow (Will it happen? You know it will)...Of course, we could just scare the evil-doers away with a group rendition of Kumbaya
03-15-04 05:45 PM
souldoggie In my opinion, Spain could not have sent a worse message. Though I'm an American, I fear for the Europeans and any national elections that are coming up. The butchers think they can have an effect on Western democracy.
If those murdering animals think they can have the same effect in the USA, (sway an election) they're dead wrong. We'd react 180 degrees differently.
03-15-04 05:59 PM
Fiji Joe Well put soulddoggie...whether they actually effected the election is irrelevant...in their twisted, muddled and fucked up heads, they are certain they did effect the election...you know, a year after the invasion of Iraq, I remain amazed that so many people do not understand the true reasons for such an invasion and why world agreement (civilized world) was so important...we screwed the pooch on this one big time...and now, I promise you, your children, and mine, will pay a heavy price
03-15-04 06:01 PM
souldoggie That's what I'm thinking, Fiji Joe. That's what I'm thinking.
03-15-04 06:02 PM
Joey " I think some just do not get it...dynamite today, nuclear bomb tomorrow (Will it happen? You know it will)...Of course, we could just scare the evil-doers away with a group rendition of Kumbaya "

You bet your sweet Ass Fij .

We WILL see a nuclear weapon go off live and in living color on CNN or FOX NEWS !!!!!! BET THE RANCH !!!!!!!!

" It's the only thing left that can shock us Ronnie ! "

Jercee !
03-15-04 06:18 PM
caro There were apparently several reasons for a political change in Spain. Remember 91% (!!) of the spanish people were against the war in Iraq. They didn't just change their mind because the thursday attacks scared them.
Of course I cannot tell what were exactly the reasons that made them vote like they did on sunday, but the "This is a victory for the terrorists" theory sounds like a rush to judgement to me.
And Fiji, if you don't mind what the rest of the world thinks, why are you worried about the message those elections are sending to the world?

Anyway, I wish courage to asdeguia and all the spanish here, we're thinking of you, although that may not make a big difference...

Edit : oops, sorry Fiji, I think I misunderstood your post.
[Edited by caro]
03-15-04 09:37 PM
Scot Rocks Nonsense, the Spanish people voted the PP out because of continual lies and deception, which continued after the bombing ie - trying to blame ETA for political purposes, even though there was significant evidence that it was not them. Moreover as stated before 90% of Spaniards were against the war in the first place, I think these factors played a bigger role in the result.

This was not a victory for terrorists it was a victory for democracy and I agree terrorism is terrible, unfortunatley its been a part of our world now for so long and today its worse as now we are all gripped by fear and vengance, daily.

The world is a mess just now, unfortunatly those in power, paint things as black and white and its the ordinary people that are suffering.


goodnight



Mark



03-16-04 02:46 AM
FotiniD
quote:
Scot Rocks wrote:
Nonsense, the Spanish people voted the PP out because of continual lies and deception, which continued after the bombing ie - trying to blame ETA for political purposes, even though there was significant evidence that it was not them. Moreover as stated before 90% of Spaniards were against the war in the first place, I think these factors played a bigger role in the result.

This was not a victory for terrorists it was a victory for democracy and I agree terrorism is terrible, unfortunatley its been a part of our world now for so long and today its worse as now we are all gripped by fear and vengance, daily.

The world is a mess just now, unfortunatly those in power, paint things as black and white and its the ordinary people that are suffering.


goodnight



Mark




Amen Mark! Finally some words of logic! The majority of the people in Spain were against the totally un-legitimate war in Iraq, so I think either way they whould have made the same choice in the elections, regardless of March 11th. And as said, their former prime minister's appaling move to lie and blame ETA for the whole thing, sure didn't make things easier for him...

It's a simple story: blind imperialistic wars based on acquiring more $$$$ and killing innocent people in the process (anyone remember exploding bridges in Kossovo and children dying or all the crazy bombing in Iraq?) led desparate people to join forces like Al Qaeda and bring on even more violence and suffering for more innocent people. What do you think Bush and co. would do now other than try to cover things up by putting on "A war on terrorism" tag and all that crap? It's called manipulation and it's really sad to see some people buying all this so easily and without thinking twice. What ever happened to critical thinking?

Terrorism is crime, but in order to stop it, I think we should look at the origins and the causes, not the outcomes. Otherwise we will unfortunately keep suffering awful tragedies like September 11th and March 11th. Violence only brings more violence.
Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

BEST VIEWED HIGH