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| Chris74 |
Hi,
IMHO 81 was the last great tour of them. Not to be misunderstood, they are for sure still the best act at all. But today that's not difficult because everything else on air is absoute crap. Even U2 as "rock" act is totally boring.
I watched "Let's spend the night together" from 81 and it took me away. You feel power, unbreakable energy, how they hammer down "Start me up" in that movie - I can't describe it. Today? Solid Rockn'Roll but doesn't take you away anymore. It sounds like two different bands.
What's the reason for that? Is it the age? It can't only be the Taylor/ Wood shift. Even with Ronnie they played magic. Watched "Paris Aux Printemps". Amazing. It gives you power in your all day working life. And then they played totally pumped up with drugs. In theory that should be bad - but in practice it still worked out better than today. Never understood that.
2nd question - why is the music today so much crap in general? I mean how long will teenagers continue to buy this rap/madonna/britney and whoever fuck? We have had now crap music since almost 30 years on radio. Are people simply more stupid and not able anymore to choose art of their choice and just simply consume the crap marketing feeds them? Are we animals with no brain?
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| mrhipfl |
to the music question, the problem is that most kids my age (17) don't go searching for good music, they justy listen to whatever MTV and hit radio stations play. Popular music has become a trend, like fashion. If you look for it, there is a lot of good new music like the black keys, silvertide, American minor, the redwalls...
To the stones question, I think they still play with awesome energy, but I think they might be getting bored of their songs, since they're playing them 3 times a week. Another good reason to change the setlists up a bit. It's like comparing the arena show of four flicks to the theater show. They have more fun playing at the theatre because they dug a little deeper into their song collection.
[Edited by mrhipfl] |
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| ebmp |
I agree with you, but I think you are exagerating (sp?) on the fact that we havent heard good music in 30 years. In this time weīve had great stuff like U2 (yes theyīre great), Guns nī Roses (the same), Nirvana, Pearl Jam, The Smashing Pumpkins etc... Off course, not the ssame as the 60īs and 70īs but still great music |
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| pdog |
quote:
Chris74 wrote:
why is the music today so much crap in general? I mean how long will teenagers continue to buy this rap/madonna/britney and whoever fuck? We have had now crap music since almost 30 years on radio.
Top Ten from 1972... The same year The Stones released Exile...
1972
1 Gilbert O'sullivan Alone Again Naturally
2 Don Mclean American Pie
3 Sammy Davis Jr. Candy Man
4 Bill Withers Lean On Me
5 Nilsson Without You
6 Al Green Let's Stay Together
7 Roberta Flack The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
8 America A Horse With No Name
9 Looking Glass Brandy (You're A Fine Girl)
10 Staple Singers I'll Take You There
1973
1 Tony Orlando & Dawn Tie A Yellow Ribbon Roun The Ole Oak Tree
2 Jim Croce Bad Bad Leroy Brown
3 Roberta Flack Killing Me Softly With His Song
4 Marvin Gaye Let's Get It On
5 Paul Mccartney & Wings My Love
6 Kris Kristofferson Why Me
7 Elton John Crocodile Rock
8 Billy Preston Will It Go Round In Circles
9 Carly Simon You're So Vain
10 Diana Ross Touch Me In The Morning
1974
1 Barbra Streisand The Way We Were
2 Terry Jacks Season In The Sun
3 Love Unlimited Orchestra Love's Theme
4 Redbone Come & Get Your Love
5 Jackson Five Dancing Machine
6 Grand Funk Railroad The Locomotion
7 Mfsb & The Three Degrees Tsop (The Sound Of Philadelphia)
8 Ray Stevens The Streak
9 Elton John Bennie & The Jets
10 Mac Davis One Hell Of A Woman
1975
1 Captain And Tennille Love Will Keep Us Together
2 Glen Campbell Rhinestone Cowboy
3 Elton John Philadelphia Freedom
4 Freddy Fender Before The Next Teardrop Falls
5 Frankie Valli My Eyes Adored You
6 Earth Wind And Fire Shining Star
7 David Bowie Fame
8 Neil Sedaka Laughter In The Rain
9 Eagles One Of These Nights
10 John Denver Thank God I'm A Country Boy
Your statement is false, there's always been pop crap, and sometimes good stuff is pop on very rare occasions. |
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| pdog |
quote:
ebmp wrote:
I agree with you, but I think you are exagerating (sp?) on the fact that we havent heard good music in 30 years. In this time weīve had great stuff like U2 (yes theyīre great), Guns nī Roses (the same), Nirvana, Pearl Jam, The Smashing Pumpkins etc... Off course, not the ssame as the 60īs and 70īs but still great music
The 60's were better pop chart wise, BUT!!! The Stones and Beatles were just boy bands once too.
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| Saint Sway |
Answer to Ques. #1:
Cuz they're older. '81 was 25 yrs ago. They just dont rock that hard anymore. Still a great band. But that raw power is gone.
Answer to Ques. #2:
Teenagers are buying crap bc crap is being constantly shoved down their throats by the recording industry and the outlets that market the music (radio, tv, print).
theres a ton of GREAT music out there. Some kids get it. I got it when I was a teen. But most everyone else my age was more into whatever was being marketed as hip at the time.
tons of great stuff out there. Its just that the industy doesnt think any of its worth trying to push and market.
But theres tons of good music out there.
Take a look at whats happened for any of the fringe bands with any kind of remote hint of talent or soul that the industry - for one reason or another decided to market to Joe Public. Bands like say Jet. Theres certainly more talented and better bands out there but some record execs gave them a little push and they blew up a little - BECAUSE THE PUBLIC IS STARVED FOR ROCK. STARVED!!!!
I like the White Stripes. They're label got behind them and they've been successful. But I also like The Black Keys - who are very similiar, only difference is they havent been promoted by a label and no one knows who they are. Sadly, its all about marketing. |
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| Jumping Jack |
I have enjoyed this tour a lot more than the over rated 81 tour. Even the setlists are better this time around. |
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| Chris74 |
quote:
pdog wrote:
Top Ten from 1972... The same year The Stones released Exile...
1972
1 Gilbert O'sullivan Alone Again Naturally
2 Don Mclean American Pie
3 Sammy Davis Jr. Candy Man
4 Bill Withers Lean On Me
5 Nilsson Without You
6 Al Green Let's Stay Together
7 Roberta Flack The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
8 America A Horse With No Name
9 Looking Glass Brandy (You're A Fine Girl)
10 Staple Singers I'll Take You There
1973
1 Tony Orlando & Dawn Tie A Yellow Ribbon Roun The Ole Oak Tree
2 Jim Croce Bad Bad Leroy Brown
3 Roberta Flack Killing Me Softly With His Song
4 Marvin Gaye Let's Get It On
5 Paul Mccartney & Wings My Love
6 Kris Kristofferson Why Me
7 Elton John Crocodile Rock
8 Billy Preston Will It Go Round In Circles
9 Carly Simon You're So Vain
10 Diana Ross Touch Me In The Morning
1974
1 Barbra Streisand The Way We Were
2 Terry Jacks Season In The Sun
3 Love Unlimited Orchestra Love's Theme
4 Redbone Come & Get Your Love
5 Jackson Five Dancing Machine
6 Grand Funk Railroad The Locomotion
7 Mfsb & The Three Degrees Tsop (The Sound Of Philadelphia)
8 Ray Stevens The Streak
9 Elton John Bennie & The Jets
10 Mac Davis One Hell Of A Woman
1975
1 Captain And Tennille Love Will Keep Us Together
2 Glen Campbell Rhinestone Cowboy
3 Elton John Philadelphia Freedom
4 Freddy Fender Before The Next Teardrop Falls
5 Frankie Valli My Eyes Adored You
6 Earth Wind And Fire Shining Star
7 David Bowie Fame
8 Neil Sedaka Laughter In The Rain
9 Eagles One Of These Nights
10 John Denver Thank God I'm A Country Boy
Your statement is false, there's always been pop crap, and sometimes good stuff is pop on very rare occasions.
Okay I agree - in the charts then were also a lot of low quality music. But you could easily pick up music in that time that blew your mind - and it was invented then. It wasn't out of a conserve. There is no music like for example Stones Forth Worth 1972 or Perth 1973 today - name me an act playing like that. Have you ever heard them play TD in these 1972 rehearsals in Montreux? There isn't even an act playing like the Stones 81 and that was way off their peak in the 70es. I just wonder what that magic created.
Have you ever seen the Who playing "I don't even know myself" @Isle of Wight 1970? Stuff like the Kinks "Victoria" - so simple stuff, but so much better than today.
Name me a todays act being able to do that - Nirvana, GnR, Oasis - all not bad, good quality music. But it's not the same level, it's not that intensity.
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| pdog |
quote:
Chris74 wrote:
Okay I agree - in the charts then were also a lot of low quality music. But you could easily pick up music in that time that blew your mind - and it was invented then. It wasn't out of a conserve. There is no music like for example Stones Forth Worth 1972 or Perth 1973 today - name me an act playing like that. Have you ever heard them play TD in these 1972 rehearsals in Montreux? There isn't even an act playing like the Stones 81 and that was way off their peak in the 70es. I just wonder what that magic created.
Have you ever seen the Who playing "I don't even know myself" @Isle of Wight 1970? Stuff like the Kinks "Victoria" - so simple stuff, but so much better than today.
Name me a todays act being able to do that - Nirvana, GnR, Oasis - all not bad, good quality music. But it's not the same level, it's not that intensity.
I could name a 100 new bands... You just named 3 bands, none of which I would call new. It's a matter of seeking out what you want to hear, I've no problem finding it, just affording it. And since it's Drive By Truckers week, there's the band that answers all the questions you just asked. I owe you 99 more, and you're welcome.
[Edited by pdog] |
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| Chris74 |
quote:
Jumping Jack wrote:
I have enjoyed this tour a lot more than the over rated 81 tour. Even the setlists are better this time around.
Why overrated? You can't even buy in rare music shops DVDs and CDs of that tour (except Still Life) - so for me it's more underplayed than overrated.
And to the setlists - for me setlists are not important, it is the way they play the songs. A thousand times heard Start Me Up of 1981 is for me more exciting than a rare played song of todays shows.
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| theanchorman |
Good post...
In regard to the music scene - this is the worst state that Rock and Roll has been in since I can remember...
There aren't that many good guitar players around anymore.
In regard to the Stones...age is the main factor...
I thought that after 73 - the Stones became a caricature of themselves...
Mick really changed the way he sang starting in 75... |
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| Chris74 |
quote:
Saint Sway wrote:
Answer to Ques. #1:
Cuz they're older. '81 was 25 yrs ago. They just dont rock that hard anymore. Still a great band. But that raw power is gone.
Answer to Ques. #2:
Teenagers are buying crap bc crap is being constantly shoved down their throats by the recording industry and the outlets that market the music (radio, tv, print).
theres a ton of GREAT music out there. Some kids get it. I got it when I was a teen. But most everyone else my age was more into whatever was being marketed as hip at the time.
tons of great stuff out there. Its just that the industy doesnt think any of its worth trying to push and market.
But theres tons of good music out there.
Take a look at whats happened for any of the fringe bands with any kind of remote hint of talent or soul that the industry - for one reason or another decided to market to Joe Public. Bands like say Jet. Theres certainly more talented and better bands out there but some record execs gave them a little push and they blew up a little - BECAUSE THE PUBLIC IS STARVED FOR ROCK. STARVED!!!!
I like the White Stripes. They're label got behind them and they've been successful. But I also like The Black Keys - who are very similiar, only difference is they havent been promoted by a label and no one knows who they are. Sadly, its all about marketing.
Agree - Jet is good. Agree also that the public is starved for Rock. I think the prob is simply most of the kids just don't know good music anymore. If would hear it once it'll blew their minds. Don't know why marketing execs don't push it more - they could make millions out of it.
Am not a fan of the White Stripes. Too much avantgardish Style for me. |
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| Chris74 |
quote:
theanchorman wrote:
Good post...
In regard to the music scene - this is the worst state that Rock and Roll has been in since I can remember...
There aren't that many good guitar players around anymore.
In regard to the Stones...age is the main factor...
I thought that after 73 - the Stones became a caricature of themselves...
Mick really changed the way he sang starting in 75...
Good point. Though I love his singing until 1981. In 1976 I like his singing especially - because it is so raw, animal like. Though contrasts to his stage behaviour than which is very heavily looking feminine, gay-like on that tour.
Afterwards - don't understand me wrong - but from the 90ies
he sings with that gay-like voice - strectching the words so artificially. I don't like that.
Another thing is Keef - today he plays a lick here a riff there, spreading his chords into the other music. Till 1981 he played the whole show uninterrupted, all time focused - HE carried the sound. Also Ronnie played much more intensive and focused then. They had to - had almost no background musicians/ singers then. I think these background musicians changed unfortunately so much the Stones sound. And Keef/ Ronnie have become more lazy while playing because they don't need anymore.
Also look at their faces - nowadays the always smile and looking relaxed - in the old days they looked concentrated - that says a lot. |
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| pdog |
If Jet, G&R and Oasis are the benchmark, that you guys start at, for rock and roll, it's not rock and roll that's in a sad state, it's you...
Drive By Truckers week rolls along and right past a million clogged ears... |
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| Chris74 |
quote:
pdog wrote:
If Jet, G&R and Oasis are the benchmark, that you guys start at, for rock and roll, it's not rock and roll that's in a sad state, it's you...
Drive By Truckers week rolls along and right past a million clogged ears...
If you like them fine. Put in a song of them here to let us all listen. How old are you?
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| pdog |
quote:
Chris74 wrote:
If you like them fine. Put in a song of them here to let us all listen. How old are you?
Seek it out yourself, it's not hard, I'm not doing the work for you. You're the one bitching that music today isn't any good. If you show some willingness to seek it out, then maybe I'd consider your argument valid, until then your just showing contempt prior to investigation, and that is ignorance.
Why does age matter? I'm old enough to have been there and done that and young enough to still want more... |
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| yellerstang |
I think the biggest difference about the Stones '81 vs. today is age........and COCAINE!! Jagger, Richards, and Wood are all wired like maniacs!! If you've ever seen the backstage pre-show video from Hampton '81, you can see it. Richards and Wood can't go a minute without rubbing their coked-out noses!!
'81 concerts (any tour video will do) are just wild and raw.
Today's show is probably better "sounding" (more accurate and precise), but "I simply do not prefer them to the '81 shows.
But, the nice thing about a band like the Stones is that they've been around so long (40+ years,) and have chnaged so much, that a fan can go back and find their favorite years.....and everyone's will be different. |
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| ebmp |
quote:
pdog wrote:
If Jet, G&R and Oasis are the benchmark, that you guys start at, for rock and roll, it's not rock and roll that's in a sad state, it's you...
Iīm not in a sad state, I just think GNR were a great band and waaay overrated. The last great Rock n Roll Band for sure, who know where they would be if they kept together.
Anyway, I donīt complain about the state rock n roll is today, because thereīs plenty of thing I have to discover from the past. |
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| PeerQueer |
Ya know...at first I wanted to be defensive of this era of the Stones, but yes, they are not on par energy-wise as they were 25 or 30 years ago because they are a hell of a lot older. So I'll grant you that they may not be as manic/energized, now as then - but they are also more consistent night in and night out. That is both a plus and minus as much of the danger/unpredictability of a Stones show is no longer there. '81 was likely the last tour where there was still some believable danger to the Stones - now they are a touring maching - all business baby, and raking in millions.
It is my hope that the Stones are already discussing the next transition of their career to a more laid back and intimate band that has shorter tours of clubs and smaller arenas - that they begin the transition into a solidly Blues-based band - sittin on stools, Mick wailin away on the harp, Keith and Ron jangling the chords, Charlie providing the foundation...refine themselves in their next studio product solidly in that direction. Although Rough Justice and Oh No are solid tunes, highly enjoyable - coming from a 60-plus year old man is pushing it,even for the greatest front man ever.
I want their next studio effort to be an all-out Blues album followed by an intimate Blues tour of venues with capacity of about 3 to 6 thousand. Maybe 20 or so dates in America followed by another 10 or so in Europe over a period of about 3-4 months. Tickets to be about $500 a pop. They could have a couple days rest between gigs.
The boys could ride out that train for the next 10 or 15 years and really provide us with some great music.
Just my 2 cents...
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| jb |
Mick Taylor.......Mick/Keith actually sat down and wrote meaningful music, they were more hungry. |
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| pdog |
quote:
ebmp wrote:
Anyway, I donīt complain about the state rock n roll is today, because thereīs plenty of thing I have to discover from the past.
I'm always discovering older stuff. If you want to be really blown away, get The Nuggets boxed sets. Pure rock and roll from the past.
Past/Present/Future, rock and roll is alive and well. |
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| ebmp |
quote:
pdog wrote:
I'm always discovering older stuff. If you want to be really blown away, get The Nuggets boxed sets. Pure rock and roll from the past.
Past/Present/Future, rock and roll is alive and well.
Thanks for the tip!
Although I was talking about more famous bands like The Who, David Bowie, or other things you know. Iīm young so I donīt really know much about some bands.
I listen so much to The Rolling Stones that I forget to dig some other bands |
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| pdog |
quote:
ebmp wrote:
Thanks for the tip!
Although I was talking about more famous bands like The Who, David Bowie, or other things you know. Iīm young so I donīt really know much about some bands.
I listen so much to The Rolling Stones that I forget to dig some other bands
Everybody is young once, and only once. Enjoy it, there's no going back. And getting to be old, not everyone gets to do that, so be careful too... I love The Who and Bowie. But I have to admit, their stuff is somewhat spotty. Bowie did some really cool stuff at times and others went off on some musical tangents. The Who, pretty solid in the 60's, but Pete was sort of getting lost in the 70's. The ship stayed on course. Quadrophenia is my favorite followed by Sell Out and The Who Sings My Generation... If you don't have them, get the expanded versions of the latter two. |
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| Soldatti |
Easy answer: 1982 was the beginning of the MTV era and nothing was the same since then. Even worse, MTV and the rap got hype at the same time, a dreadful combination. |
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| pdog |
MTV destroys all (music) that comes near it.
Music TV, 23 hours of teenage faux reality shows and one hour of pure shit... |
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| east_river_trucker |
quote:
Chris74 wrote:
Another thing is Keef - today he plays a lick here a riff there, spreading his chords into the other music. Till 1981 he played the whole show uninterrupted, all time focused - HE carried the sound. Also Ronnie played much more intensive and focused then. They had to - had almost no background musicians/ singers then. I think these background musicians changed unfortunately so much the Stones sound. And Keef/ Ronnie have become more lazy while playing because they don't need anymore.
Touche! I very much agree. Background muscians have been a curse upon the Stones.
People forget that there were background musicians on the '75 tour and that they didn't always stay in the background. People forget that Billy Preston took the stage front and center to do his songs in the middle of the Stone's show - the Stones became his backing band. Image Chuck level leaving his keybroad and doing the lead singing and dancing with Mick on the catwalk. Stone's fans the world over would riot and burn down British Embassies. Let's not forget that Ollie Brown's precussion created the '75 live sound, not to mention Preston's soulfull singing in the background, particularly on You Got to Move. Listen to WCAGWUW or Sympathy for the Devil on Love You Live. Killer precussion sound.
People forget that in '72 Stevie Wonder and some of his band joined the Stones on stage. Fortunately by '78 that was all gone and the pure rock and roll had returned with a vengence. That lasted thru '81, with only Ian Mcgaglin (sp&) joing Stu on keyboards and Ernie Watts playing the sax. It may be sacrilege, but I still prefer Ernie Watts to Bobby Keys. He could do the sax parts on Brown Suger AND on Waiting on a Friend, something that's beyond Bobby's abilities, and something that made more horn players on stage unnecassary.
Lisa Fisher, Daryl Jones, Blondie Chaplin, Bernard Fowler, and everyone in the overgrown horn section should be put on a plane back home - do not pass go do not collect 200 dollars. Make Chuck level play a real piano. Hire a white British keyboardist and white British bass player of the same age and origin as the original Rolling Stones, ditch the backing tracks, ditch the magical moving b-stage, send the current wardrobe to the Liberace musium in Vegas, turn the amps up to 11, and PLAY SOME ROCK AND ROLL DAMM IT mistakes and all. Damn the torpedoes, damn the album versions, damn the fat bastards in the front rows that paid $5000 dollars for a ticket, and do as Chuck Berry says, "Play for that money boys!"
I don't think the musical scene today is any better or worse then it was in the Stone's hey day. It is different, that's all. Technology has changed. Not only have live electric quitars been done and done and done and done again and than done into the dirt, but they can be done with a computer program a qazillion ways at the touch of an on screen menu without setting up a Marshal stack or any other antique electronic wizardry.
But more importantly, there is no longer a common cultural language. It is now impossible for any one musical act to dominate the pop scene the way the Stones and Beatles did. That era came to an end in the mid 90s with U2 and GnR. They were the last bands to even come close to speaking for the entire youth culture. By the late 90's rock clubs with live bands (the seeding ground of rocknroll) where all but empty. I know because I was in them. No body cared anymore. Live rock and roll is over. Stick a fork in it. It's done.
Quality in art is very much subjective. To say that the Stone's music is of higher quality than M&M's cannot be proven. Sinatra's generation could make a very good case that the Rolling Stones lacked the quality of Sinatra's big bands. And when MnMs and Snoop Doggs fans are in their 40s they will says remember when rap was raw and powerful and they'll say todays artists aren't worth a dam. |
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| Jumacfly |
quote:
yellerstang wrote:
I think the biggest difference about the Stones '81 vs. today is age........and COCAINE!! Jagger, Richards, and Wood are all wired like maniacs!! If you've ever seen the backstage pre-show video from Hampton '81, you can see it. Richards and Wood can't go a minute without rubbing their coked-out noses!!
the answer to many questions. fuckin' true and evident while listening to "let me go" from 81...We should make a quest to bring back coke in Keef and Ronnie's noses!!! |
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| Yyteri Beach |
To me the main reason is that Keef and Ronnie no longer sing the back-up vocals. I think those tours were more raw and when K&R sang the back-ups it sounded perfect. It was a disappointing in 1989 to see them using "outsiders" to sing the back-ups. Bernard and co. are pro's and they sing well but still...
just listen f.e. 81-82 bootlegs and see how well the whole singing section works when Keef and Ronnie "sing"...
Of course post 82 tours are awsome and they still perform the best live shows on earth but something's missing... |
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| Chris74 |
[quote]east_river_trucker wrote:
Touche! I very much agree. Background muscians have been a curse upon the Stones.
People forget that there were background musicians on the '75 tour and that they didn't always stay in the background. People forget that Billy Preston took the stage front and center to do his songs in the middle of the Stone's show - the Stones became his backing band. Image Chuck level leaving his keybroad and doing the lead singing and dancing with Mick on the catwalk. Stone's fans the world over would riot and burn down British Embassies. Let's not forget that Ollie Brown's precussion created the '75 live sound, not to mention Preston's soulfull singing in the background, particularly on You Got to Move. Listen to WCAGWUW or Sympathy for the Devil on Love You Live. Killer precussion sound.
People forget that in '72 Stevie Wonder and some of his band joined the Stones on stage. Fortunately by '78 that was all gone and the pure rock and roll had returned with a vengence. That lasted thru '81, with only Ian Mcgaglin (sp&) joing Stu on keyboards and Ernie Watts playing the sax. It may be sacrilege, but I still prefer Ernie Watts to Bobby Keys. He could do the sax parts on Brown Suger AND on Waiting on a Friend, something that's beyond Bobby's abilities, and something that made more horn players on stage unnecassary.
In 72 Wonder only joined during Satisfaction - and quote frankly that Satisfaction wasn't a killer during that tour.
The Billy Preston, Ollie Brown background was different to today. They enhanced the sound of the Stones. Though I don't like the one Preston song in the middle, the other one "Nothing from Nothing" is not so bad.
Todays backgrounds are boring studio musicians. They sound perfect but absolutely don't have the live feeling.
I simply think that Keef doesn't wan't to play anymore so much because he's old and also wasted by drug/alcohol abuse and therefore they engaged all that huge background band.
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| Chris74 |
[quote]Yyteri Beach wrote:
To me the main reason is that Keef and Ronnie no longer sing the back-up vocals. I think those tours were more raw and when K&R sang the back-ups it sounded perfect. It was a disappointing in 1989 to see them using "outsiders" to sing the back-ups. Bernard and co. are pro's and they sing well but still...
True point in that though I don't think it's the main reason. Love Keef singing Little T&A, chorusing on JJF 81. It really sounds dangerous and dark. |
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