| March 13th, 2005 01:12 AM |
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| Soldatti |
STONES KEEP ROLLING
An exclusive HITS DAILY DOUBLE dialogue with Mick Jagger & Keith Richards
September 5, 2002
In conversation, Rolling Stones founders Mick Jagger and Keith Richards couldn’t be more different. Jagger is diplomatic, political, professional, making sure he doesn’t offend a single potential Stones buyer, and filled with bonhomie, but chilled to the bone and easily bored. On the other hand, Richards is exactly how you see him, cigarette cocked between his lips, leaning up against Ronnie Wood, truly the salt of the earth, ready to say anything about anybody, listening and responding, giving you all the time you need, a real person.
A study in contrasts, Jagger and Richards are rock’s greatest living duo—the heart and soul of the Rolling Stones for going on four decades now. They’re celebrating the milestone with a number of high-profile projects, including the Oct. 1 release of their own greatest-hits answer to the Beatles’ 1, Virgin/EMI’s Forty Licks. The set also features four new songs recorded with producer Don Was in Paris, including the first single, the aptly named "Don’t Stop." In addition, Allen Klein’s ABKCO has just re-released the band’s entire pre-Sticky Fingers catalog—22 albums in all—in SuperAudio CD that have old fans raving at the meticulous re-mastering, which makes the discs sound like they were recorded yesterday.
Mick and Keith were in Toronto, where they recently played a warm-up gig at the Palais Royale prior to the launch of their massive Licks tour, which got underway this week (9/3) at Boston’s Fleet Center. They were hoodwinked into spending some valuable phone time with HITS’ stalker Roy "Well You Heard About the Midnight Tummler" Trakin.
PART 1: MICK JAGGER
- The Toronto warm-up show sounded fantastic.
Mick Jagger: It was good fun. Some bits were better than others. [Laughs] It went really good.
- The set list was pretty interesting. Is it close to what we can expect on the tour?
I don’t know what we’re going to do. It depends on the place we’re playing, the town we’re in.
- So there’ll be different sets depending on the size of the venue in each city.
That’s the way I see it, really. In the cities where we’re doing three venues, I see the theaters as much more the place to do songs that aren’t perhaps so well-known.
- For the real fans.
It’s not so much that they’re more real; they’re no more real than anyone else. It’s just easier in a small place to play what you like. You can hear better. It’s just more suited to experimentation. It’s not so much of a show as a musical performance. The bigger it gets, the more of a spectacle it is. In an arena like the Garden, you have to strike a good balance between well-known material and something that’s not quite as popular. And in a very, very big stadium, I think you have to veer towards the well-known. I think that’s what works. You don’t want to play too many mystery numbers in a stadium.
- So you’ve been in Toronto this whole time?
Yup. Just playing, doing a whole bunch of songs. Last 10 days, we’ve been trying to narrow things down a bit. Getting the set lists together. [Laughs] It sounds good.
- Is playing together like riding a bicycle for you guys at this point? Do you just jump back on and start peddling?
Some of it feels like that. But we had quite a lot of things to work out. If you’re only going to do 22 songs, then it would be easy. But if you’re trying to get a repertoire of, say, maybe 60-70 songs, that’s quite a lot to remember. And there’s a lot to go wrong.
- Is it still as much fun for you as it’s always been?
It was good to do the show the other night. It gives you a more realistic feel. Otherwise, you’re stuck in a rehearsal room. Once it gets outside of there, it becomes much more real and more fun. You get feedback from an audience as to how they like one number over another. I mean, that’s what you’re doing. You’re not doing it in isolation.
- I noticed in the Toronto set list some chestnuts you really haven’t played for awhile, like "Heart of Stone."
I can’t remember when we played that one last. Years ago. Sounds a bit different now.
- How did you go about putting together this greatest hits record?
First thing I wanted it to be was the most famous songs from the beginning to the present-day. Then I just threw in a few more favorites that maybe weren’t singles, but songs that have been played alot and people have always liked. And then, we wanted to put some new songs in, so we went to Paris to record. We ended up with four new songs and a whole lot more material we’ll work on later.
- Why did you decide to put out a best-of record at this point rather than a whole new album?
I thought it was good to put together this package, which had never been done. I’d hoped to put it together for a while, but I was ready to forget it, basically. But it seemed like a great time to get a whole overview of everything from early ‘60s to present-day.
- You and Keith appear to be in mid-tour form with some of the exchanges going on between you about the solo album and your knighthood.
I don’t do sniping.
- When are you getting knighted?
I haven’t heard anything about it since I got the first letter.
- Keith said you shouldn’t have settled for just a knighthood.
I don’t do sniping. I told you that. So you can’t get me to do it.
- I was just curious about your take on being knighted.
It’s a very nice thing to have. I mean, it’s nice to be asked [laughs]. But it’s something you should wear lightly. Understand what I mean? You shouldn’t make a big deal about it. You shouldn’t ram it down people’s throats…or put on airs or graces. You should just accept it as a nice compliment.
- Were you disappointed in the sales performance of your last solo album, Goddess in the Doorway?
Well, I think we did pretty well. We sold well over a million worldwide. We had a record company that was self-destructing in the United States. Which is still in the process of picking its pieces up. [Laughs] I know because I’m still on it. Outside the U.S., we did quite well. We did Top Five in Europe, which I think is good. In a lot of territories, we did as much as Bridges to Babylon. In America, two-thirds of the company was fired the day the record came out. [Laughs] It wasn’t very good timing.
- What’s your take on the current disputes between artists and labels here in the States?
There’s always been trouble, ever since year one. We used to have tremendous rows with our first record company [Decca], who were completely hopeless. They just didn’t get it. One of the problems is, record companies cut costs. I’m not a great expert on this; I’m just kind of guessing. But as they cut costs, they employ fewer people that really have any rapport with artists at all. And people end up with lots of different jobs to do that they’re not necessarily suited for, but are only too happy to do. I think that communication just gets completely broken down. Virgin was in a process of complete reorganization. They couldn’t manage to sell the company, so what were they going to do next? And you get caught in the middle of that, even though it has nothing to do with you, to be perfectly honest. If you’re caught in that, you can say they didn’t promote the record properly. Trouble is, those people are more worried about keeping their jobs than promoting your record.
- You may be one of the few bands with enough brand recognition to do break away from the major-label system.
I think that’s definitely something to think about in the future. We all know the music business has shifted a lot. Music’s evolving into lots of other formats. It’s in a different place. I’m sure it’s still exciting for some people, but putting out CDs doesn’t seem to be quite the event it used to be… for various reasons. Wouldn’t you agree? One has to reconsider the whole thing of recorded music and its distribution, but everybody is starting to.
- So far, there hasn’t been too much talk about this being the last Stones tour.
I think people have just gotten fed up asking. I mean, I have had that question. I always give the same boring answer, which is just sort of existential. Without even starting the tour, we could all get killed in a bus. You never know what’s going to happen. You can’t tell the future.
- I just read your former manager Andrew Loog Oldham claims in his autobiography he once slept in the same bed with you.
I can’t talk about my affairs from 50 years ago or something. This is a music magazine, isn’t it?
- What about your own autobiography? Haven’t you been working on that for years?
That was 15 years ago. That’s really old hat. I don’t wanna go there. Are we almost finished now? Thank you very much. It was nice talking to you.
PART 2: KEITH RICHARDS
- Have you been keeping track of the turmoil in the U.S. record industry these days?
Keith Richards: Of course. Things like EMI going, like, doink… I mean, we’ve worked with these people, off and on, all our lives. They’re as true and blue as the British Empire and all of that. Changing times, man. They were living far too high and far too fat for far too long, ya know?
- All the musician wants to do is play and record, but you guys seem to have taken care of business through the years.
We don’t get involved to that extent. We make our deals and then we fulfill ’em. The difficult thing has been in the area of promotion. You have to argue how much they’re going to put into this, and who’s radio’s favorite flavor of the month. And it kinda gets a little tacky. But it always has been. It’s always been a pool of piranhas, and they always wore sharkskin suits.
- I just read Andrew Loog Oldham’s autobiography. It was a much different world back then, more innocent.
It was real. I remember our first record deal with Decca. We were in the boardroom with Sir Edward whatever-his-name-was, who was 80 years old and drooling. Actually, it was like a Sopranos thing. He was wearing shades he didn’t take off. And then he let us do what we wanted [laughs]. The first thing we did was lease tracks to them. We didn’t sign a contract. Which was a famous deal. I’m glad we did it that way because that meant we had the all-important "artistic control."
- I always know when you guys are getting warmed up for a new tour because the sniping in the press heats up.
Most of the energy has been very positive, real good. Usually, it takes a few weeks to knock off the rust. But I don’t know… They’ve come in well-oiled, man. It’s really sounding good. The only down side was the death of [longtime roadie Roydon] Chuch McGee. He’s one of the pillars that kept the Stones up, though you never saw him. He had a heart attack a couple of weeks ago, which sobered everybody up.
- What was your reaction to John Entwistle’s death?
That was another surprise. Isn’t it amazing, just before the first show of the tour… I didn’t know him well. I don’t know if anybody did, really. I’m sure he had a lot of close friends. I’d known him for so long. And he always sent me some nice notes. He was a very quiet man, ya know. When you get taken, man, you get taken. But it didn’t stop Roger or Pete. I heard they got my old friend Pino [Palladino] on bass. And the tour must go on…
- So no Bill Wyman again this time around?
No, no. I got a message from him just a couple of weeks ago. Now and again, we get in touch. Otherwise, he’s too busy having babies. It’s something he’s good at. Since he left the Stones, he’s had about three daughters. That’s his favorite occupation.
- Has he discovered Viagra?
Bill’s always been like that. That’s why he’s so fuckin’ skinny, man [laughs].
- You recently put down Mick’s solo record in the press.
I mean, where else could you put it? When they asked me about it, I said, "Oh, you mean Dogshit in the Hallway?" The quibble with that is Mick had told me months and months before he was not going to do any solo projects and we were going to concentrate on getting this thing together. And then suddenly, his dogshit appears. And then I heard it, and I thought, "Yeah, it is dogshit."
- And what about his whole knighthood thing?
I really flared up about that. I thought it was really stupid timing. Typical of Mick to break rank. I mean, right now, he could have done himself a lot better by turning it down.
- You’re anti-royalist?
Well, I’m not "anti." I just think people like Frankie Drake and Wally Riley deserve knighthood. I don’t really see what pop singers have to do with it. But if they do, it’s a bit of a paltry honor, innit? If Phil Collins is a knight, then you should hang out for the fuckin’ peerage, man. Get a Lordship. They give knighthoods for covering a few Supremes songs.
- So we’re never going to have a Sir Keith Richards.
I very much doubt it. I’m too vocal. And also, I always thought Mick was, too. But I told him, "Now you’ve joined the brown-noses."
- Have you heard any of the remastered titles?
Allen [Klein] sent me a copy of them. Very good mixes. Some very interesting work has been going on there.
- It’s like hearing these old songs for the first time.
To me, too. This new system of re-mastering and re-mixing them amazed me, too. [Laughs] I was hearing instruments I forgot I put on there. It’s amazing what’s on tape and what can be pulled out.
- Have you watched The Osbournes ?
No, I haven’t. I wasn’t in the country when it was on. It sounds like exactly what Ozzy needs. Ozzy’s always going to pull something out of his hat every now and again. And that was a good one, I think. Ya know, it’s kinda like The Simpsons, but live.
- Have you ever considered a reality show yourself?
No way, man. Reality’s enough without being virtual.
- What do you think about this new garage-band punk movement? The Hives have a singer who looks like a young Mick Jagger.
[Mock sneer] What’s so new about it? I’m not surprised because that’s what they should be doing. Also, because last time we were on the road, five years ago, those 12-year-olds in the front row are now 17, 18 and they’re rocking. A lot of these guys are my tribe, in one way or another. Even if they don’t know it.
- And now you’re putting out a greatest hits album, like the Beatles’ 1.
The only difference between the Beatles and us is we’re still going. So we thought it was necessary and important to at least put on some new tracks. Like a dot-dot-dot… To be continued, so to speak.
- Keith, how long can this keep going?
[Incredulous]. You’re asking me? We’ve never said anything about it being the last time. It’s always from the outside. Including now. I think they’ve just thrown up their hands in disgust and said, "We can’t use the bit about it being the last tour anymore. It doesn’t work. They keep coming back."
- You always seem to have a good time.
Pursuit of happiness, man. It’s in the Constitution. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that, if you’re miserable, it’s really miserable. The only other side of the coin is, enjoy it. Figure it out. It ain’t that difficult. Some people just look for trouble and want it and other people just deal with it.
- Do you go for medical check-ups regularly?
We have to do all of that to get insurance for the tour. The last report I got, I was 38 and didn’t smoke. And I said, "I’ll take that, doc." [Laughs]
- So you haven’t had one of these colonoscopies yet, where they put a camera up your butt?
What the fuck would people do that for?
- When you’re over 50, you’re supposed to get one, to check for colon cancer.
Horse shit. They did all that crap. I have a very unexcited prostate, if you wanna know. And that’s the way we like it.
- You’ll end up dancing on all our graves.
I dunno, man. That’s not a pleasant thought. Where does that leave me, ya know? [Laughs] |
| March 13th, 2005 06:58 AM |
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| J.J.Flash |
Superb!
I have never read this one before. Absolutely worth reading. Man, I love Keith...
And I hope you end up dancing above my grave too my hero!
Thank you very much Soldy!
[Edited by J.J.Flash] |
| March 13th, 2005 08:07 AM |
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| JumpingKentFlash |
Thanks Soldatti. That was truly awesome. A very nice read. And I love the way you can see the differences between Jagger and Richards in such interviews. At the same time you can also see why they are still going (the special bond).
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| March 13th, 2005 04:46 PM |
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| IanBillen |
Thanks Soldatti!,
Great read. The person interviewing them asked some really ballsy stuff! In a way he kinda seemd a bit of a prick.
I don't think Mick appreciated that.
A Really interesting read.
Ian |
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